Not Your Job: The Art of Defiance

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Open original MP4 · Recorded 2026-01-06 · 34.36 minutes. Existing transcript below; wording has not been audio-verified.

00:00:03.566 – 00:00:08.287

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody, thanks for coming to this talk. Let me share my screen.

00:00:08.287 – 00:00:09.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talk over the slides.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Where'd it go?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Mm.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There it is.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So hello, I am Steven Schrembeck.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A software developer here. And this talk is not your job. Well, no,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
no.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hey, listen, there we go. The art of defiance,

00:00:40.993 – 00:00:43.939

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
defiant PowerPoint presentation. This talk,

00:00:43.939 – 00:00:47.688

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like the last talk I did for the Q3 Engineering Summit,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which I was very happy to do, was well received,

00:00:50.969 – 00:00:54.986

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
so I figured I would do something spiritually similar here.

00:00:54.986 – 00:00:56.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is like the last one.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
deep meaning at work. This one is half philosophy,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
half practical advice on how to change your own behavior, how to change culture,

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MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
get what you want at work, do better things.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And it's seen through the lens of engineering,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it is not specifically and only about engineering.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that is what I'm assuming this is for, but it's

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more broadly applicable. All right, so let's talk about what this is about.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Take about 30 minutes, and then we'll leave about 10 plus

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
minutes for questions at the end. And yeah, we'll leave Q&A.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And it's really more of a conversation. If you think I'm dumb,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't like the ideas, or you have your own ideas,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'd love to hear it.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's just as valid as a question. But until then, I'm going to talk.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So what is this about? This is about how to thoughtfully use

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Defiance in order to improve our product development, our operations,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
anything about how the business works. Improve the quality of life, that is,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I mentioned this in the last showing of this talk.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Making things like better and making people want to be here is totally valid.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as it's not like detracting from other important things,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you have a license to do that. So this is also about that,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
making it more fun, wanting to come to work,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enjoying what you're doing. In my mind, nobody's measuring that,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it does matter. All right.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So beyond the actual process, hey Rick, I think your mic is unmuted just in case

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Wallace, Steve (CAI - Texas)
Yes.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you sneeze or start coughing.

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MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
My bad. Keep going. You're doing great.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're gonna...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would let you know.

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MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, yeah.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talking about how roles and the definition of roles,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
obviously from an engineering perspective, change in a changing landscape.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everything is changing all the time. So this is the last one was more about

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how do I enjoy my job and my life? How do I find meaning in what I'm doing,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
whatever I'm doing, despite what's going on?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is much more about how am I involved in it? Things are going to change.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What is my place in this? And how should I think about this?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do I do it? And then we'll sort of take it even

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
beyond that and more out into the rest of your life, which we'll talk about.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And then of course, the last and

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Fairly important part is, yeah, how not to do this wrong and get fired

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and actually just make things worse. You know, well-intentioned,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but you're actually, you're causing chaos, so you're making things worse.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So we're going to talk about some of the strategies and the risks and how to think

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
about this. So I'm going to give you this formal

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
warning. Everybody's an adult here.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is advice. Take it or leave it, but how you apply it is on you.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Don't go doing some things that see when I could do this and, you know,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's not my fault. So

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
be wise and you know, let's go from there. I'm not going to give you a whole lot

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more hedging than that.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So, let's start with a simple scenario. This talk is in two parts.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Part one is, this is a terrible idea. And it follows the scenario of you are a

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
software developer working on an application team of some kind.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You have received a piece of work.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And in your own head, you think, that's like a really terrible idea.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
For some reason, this is not good. And...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
When it's on technical grounds, we generally have the domain,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we have the trump card, right? Everybody's got a trump card. Now,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you know, if you're a doctor, you get to pull the trump card on

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody because it's a medical issue. They're not going to be giving you legal

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
advice. In the same way, of course, we have a technical expertise and we're

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
expected to push back for technical things. This talk is not about that.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Not that people don't need help with that; these ideas apply there,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but what we're talking about is the gray area just beyond a job role, where, okay,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you want me to remove this thing, or you want me to add this feature,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you want me to make this change beyond just our technical reasons, we are...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
full, complete, rich human beings with lots of knowledge,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
far beyond you know how to make some software do a thing, according to spec.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm of the opinion that treating yourself as a cog, a worker on the assembly line,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is a terrible idea as a knowledge worker. There is so much we are leaving on the

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
table. But anyway.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so you get the work in the hypothetical.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What do you do? Do you keep it to yourself?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you try to push back, at risk to yourself or your career?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you make change? How do you go about it?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Should you? And the entire purpose of this talk is to

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
say yes, with multiple asterisks after it, I think you should,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and we desperately need you to. At every level, the company, the species,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we all need people who are willing to push back.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And this is especially important in engineering.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
because we're often the last line of defense. We're the last thing,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we're the last people to see something. And we often have the most context,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
not only on how it works, but we spend a lot of time with these

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
things, literally working with them. So we have a perspective that nobody else

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
does. If we don't speak up, there's a very good chance nobody will.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We are the last.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
line in the immune system. We, I believe, have a moral and greater,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least to the company or our work ethic, to speak up if we believe something isn't

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
good for the product, for the customer, for the business goals, whatever. Morally,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
ethically, that's also valid.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so let's get into it. We'll start right away with a pretty

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
sensational headline. You don't have to do what you're told.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Here's a couple questions to think about. Who do you work for?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Where does your loyalty belong? Why? And do you feel clear on why?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is not obvious. When there is conflict,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you've received this hypothetical piece of work.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is not hypothetical for most people. It could even just be,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this is a waste of time. We've been doing this stuff for three

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
months. You're giving me more of this? Like, nobody knows if it's working.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Why are we doing this? Whether or not you've said anything is

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
immaterial at this point. Where does your loyalty go?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That matters A lot. Is it to your product or business

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
partners who are asking for the change?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Is it to the customers? You know, damn the torpedoes. Like, no,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm here for them. This is what they want. It's clear. Look at this.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm here for them. And you're willing to push back against

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your peers. Is it for, you know, your management, the technical leadership?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Are they where your loyalty goes? Do you have loyalty to high level company

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
goals over low level company goals?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you have loyalty to your friends and your relationships at the company?

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not worth burning the bridge. It's not obvious.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I can tell you what my answer is. You're welcome to draw from that if you

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
want to. But it's important that you know why

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're here and who you're working for. And my answer,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which I more or less said in this last talk as well,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is I work for myself and what I believe is right. I work for meaning and purpose.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I need a paycheck.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A paycheck is necessary, but it's not sufficient. For me,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this is my choice. I choose to do work that I think is

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
meaningful and valuable. Not always. I know. I got to do stuff that,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least from a utility perspective, I don't get it.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I don't have to get everything. That's not the point.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But when I see something that I really think could be improved,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think is wrong for some reason.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Then it gets interesting because my loyalty is to what I think is right and

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
effective. I have no real love for used cars in my

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
case in this part of the organization, but I do care about doing good work,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I care about people, I care about doing something that's

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
effective and provides value. All those things matter to me,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and that is what I'm of service to.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But you pick your own thing, you know? Choose your own adventure, it's your life.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But you're a human being and not a cog.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just don't forget that. And we need you to not be a cog because

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we need to innovate. We need to change. We need what you bring to the table

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
beyond your technical expertise. We'll get into that in a second.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So the art of small defiance. So the dark secret of all engineering

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
professions is that this is actually kind of a moot point because turns out if a

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
lot of people think an idea is bad or dumb or wasteful,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody drags their feet. Like, yeah, you estimate wrong.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You prioritize one thing over and over. This is a favorite tool.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not clear which of these four things we should be doing. Well, I guarantee you,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
10 times out of 10, people are going to pick the one that

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
they think is actually more valuable or will give them some learning,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like some sort of value they're going to derive from it.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
every single time. It always comes out somewhere.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If nobody says anything or nobody does anything and it's not effective,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it continues to be not effective.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody knows that even if you're an engineer and technically that's not your

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
job, you have the ability to drag your feet on

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
anything or make anything poorly or take too long or deprioritize it.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that's always true. That's not a nice thing to say.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not an easy thing to say, but that's how human beings operate.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It doesn't matter what the job role is, by the way. It's not just engineering.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's always true.

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If it's foolish, or it doesn't make sense, or it's not effective,

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Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's always going to come out somewhere.

00:10:14.006 – 00:10:17.314

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you're going to pay one way or another. The only real decision here is whether

00:10:17.314 – 00:10:18.846

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're going to do something about it.

00:10:21.366 – 00:10:24.911

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and address it directly. All right, so now we're going to talk about this

00:10:24.911 – 00:10:27.115

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
part. I'll keep talking about this throughout

00:10:27.115 – 00:10:29.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and in Q&A as well, or the discussion.

00:10:31.126 – 00:10:36.886

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay, there's a lot of asterisks here. And the couple I want to...

00:10:37.846 – 00:10:41.195

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
really focus on are one, you need to be somebody who is providing

00:10:41.195 – 00:10:44.290

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more value than you're taking away, like significantly more.

00:10:44.290 – 00:10:47.132

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not a good idea to do this, to start pushing back,

00:10:47.132 – 00:10:48.806

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially outside your job role.

00:10:50.086 – 00:10:53.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you're not somebody who is already...

00:10:53.926 – 00:10:57.124

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
being useful, right? You need to be able to do what you're

00:10:57.124 – 00:11:00.810

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
told well first before you not try to do what you're not told well.

00:11:00.810 – 00:11:04.658

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's just how human beings work. It's also a reasonable expectation.

00:11:04.658 – 00:11:08.073

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you need a track record of being competent and being right.

00:11:08.073 – 00:11:12.246

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I should go without saying that you should at least believe you are right or

00:11:12.246 – 00:11:13.926

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least believe you are right.

00:11:14.246 – 00:11:18.119

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
likely enough to be right, a size of impact that is worth the risk.

00:11:18.119 – 00:11:21.194

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that brings us to the second part, which is data.

00:11:21.194 – 00:11:24.554

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You want to be able to prove it subjectively, objectively.

00:11:24.554 – 00:11:28.541

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You need to have something. Generally, it is best to pose a question,

00:11:28.541 – 00:11:32.015

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to assume competency in the people that you are questioning.

00:11:32.015 – 00:11:34.406

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A question is the best way to get started.

00:11:34.566 – 00:11:39.063

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hey, have you thought about this? Or how do we know it's going to have that

00:11:39.063 – 00:11:41.902

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
result? I was at the grocery store to pick up a

00:11:41.902 – 00:11:46.162

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
frozen pizza for lunch today, and one of the people at Kroger who stand

00:11:46.162 – 00:11:48.646

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
around operating the self-checkout things.

00:11:49.886 – 00:11:52.339

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
She came up to me and started talking to me about SNAP,

00:11:52.339 – 00:11:55.186

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like the food stamp program, and asked if I had any relatives or

00:11:55.186 – 00:11:58.296

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
friends, you used that program. And I said, no. It's like, okay, well,

00:11:58.296 – 00:12:01.625

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm going around telling everybody that Kroger runs the 20% discount on all

00:12:01.625 – 00:12:04.210

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
produce, fruits and vegetables, if you're in that program.

00:12:04.210 – 00:12:06.312

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think it's great. We don't have any signs up.

00:12:06.312 – 00:12:08.590

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I told my manager, they're not having any signs up.

00:12:08.590 – 00:12:12.006

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So I'm just walking around telling people now because I think it's important.

00:12:13.246 – 00:12:14.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What I am talking about.

00:12:15.126 – 00:12:19.549

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
She gets it. She gets it. Nobody asked her to do that.

00:12:19.549 – 00:12:25.659

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I thought that that was fantastic, and it was a perfect example of what I'm

00:12:25.659 – 00:12:31.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
trying to indicate here. The last is relationships. And that is...

00:12:32.926 – 00:12:36.992

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
The point I want to make here is how you say something is more important than what

00:12:36.992 – 00:12:40.665

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're saying. That's not obvious, and it will be obvious to everyone else

00:12:40.665 – 00:12:44.486

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
around you. You can see in their response, especially when you're challenging

00:12:44.486 – 00:12:46.445

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody, you don't want to trigger the

00:12:46.445 – 00:12:48.992

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
psychological immune system. If they get emotional,

00:12:48.992 – 00:12:52.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially in front of other people, it's not going to go well.

00:12:52.646 – 00:12:53.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So.

00:12:54.566 – 00:12:58.613

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talking to people generally, back channels first, trying to get allies,

00:12:58.613 – 00:13:01.255

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
trying to ask questions, trying to understand,

00:13:01.255 – 00:13:05.752

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and having the appearance of trying to understand. And not just the appearance,

00:13:05.752 – 00:13:09.686

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but like genuinely also trying to understand is a great way to start.

00:13:10.726 – 00:13:13.704

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think somebody mentioned this in the Q&A last time,

00:13:13.704 – 00:13:16.153

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is that if you just walk people through the logic,

00:13:16.153 – 00:13:20.138

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't even have to tell them they're wrong. Most people are going to go, well,

00:13:20.138 – 00:13:22.299

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
yeah. And then you're going to find the real

00:13:22.299 – 00:13:24.940

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
reason that this is happening. And then at that point,

00:13:24.940 – 00:13:27.485

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you can make a decision. And nobody risked anything.

00:13:27.485 – 00:13:30.366

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So often things don't even get to a point of real conflict.

00:13:30.566 – 00:13:33.116

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
However, when it does, it helps to have rapport.

00:13:33.116 – 00:13:36.965

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It helps to have friends before you need them. Pretty basic stuff, right?

00:13:36.965 – 00:13:39.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're going to find a lot more success.

00:13:41.766 – 00:13:44.703

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There's a lot more to it, but we'll get to it later.

00:13:44.703 – 00:13:49.246

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Make sure I don't run out of time here. All right. So this is more about culture.

00:13:49.246 – 00:13:53.401

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There are no small acts of defiance. When you push back in a thoughtful or

00:13:53.401 – 00:13:56.060

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
empathetic way, also importantly, you're right.

00:13:56.060 – 00:13:59.163

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Not so much that you're right, it's that it's affected.

00:13:59.163 – 00:14:01.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
At the very least, the discussion.

00:14:01.606 – 00:14:05.604

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what change came out of this. It doesn't even matter that you're right,

00:14:05.604 – 00:14:08.769

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that it had a net positive result. When you are defiant,

00:14:08.769 – 00:14:12.490

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm not going to do this, is probably not how you want to go about

00:14:12.490 – 00:14:16.321

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this. It's not a good start. I'm not saying that you should never do

00:14:16.321 – 00:14:18.486

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this. You should never outright say no.

00:14:20.646 – 00:14:23.706

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
However, when you push back or you question or you

00:14:23.706 – 00:14:26.586

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
get involved, especially outside your job role,

00:14:26.586 – 00:14:31.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
no matter how small, pretty recently, somebody wanted to put an icon in an

00:14:31.086 – 00:14:33.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
application. The icon, it looked like crap.

00:14:33.726 – 00:14:38.226

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Like you couldn't understand what it was communicating. It was just noise.

00:14:38.226 – 00:14:38.886

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It was bad.

00:14:40.086 – 00:14:43.484

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's my personal opinion, but I did cite some actual reasons for

00:14:43.484 – 00:14:45.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
why it was unreadable, how it wasn't useful.

00:14:48.086 – 00:14:51.568

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This had nothing to do with me. I was like barely even involved in this

00:14:51.568 – 00:14:54.276

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
task, but you know, sort of thoughtfully brought it up,

00:14:54.276 – 00:14:57.902

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
made some suggestions how it should be changed. That's it. Like it seemed,

00:14:57.902 – 00:15:01.432

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
why even say anything? It seems dumb. And if it's a total waste of time,

00:15:01.432 – 00:15:04.140

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
obviously, you know, get your ROI out of this. However,

00:15:04.140 – 00:15:07.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but when you do that kind of thing, you are showing the people around you.

00:15:08.326 – 00:15:12.335

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that it's okay to question. It's okay to have doubts about different

00:15:12.335 – 00:15:15.299

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
parts of the process. How did we get to this idea?

00:15:15.299 – 00:15:18.378

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do we know whether this is going to work or not?

00:15:18.378 – 00:15:21.922

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Why are we investing so much in this? Help me understand it.

00:15:21.922 – 00:15:26.105

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
When you do things like that, you're showing the people around you that

00:15:26.105 – 00:15:26.686

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's okay.

00:15:27.926 – 00:15:30.976

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to be involved in other areas of the business.

00:15:30.976 – 00:15:35.129

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's okay to be involved in things that are just not your lane.

00:15:35.129 – 00:15:38.893

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And human beings are complex, and we have a lot to offer.

00:15:38.893 – 00:15:43.759

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We're much more expressive than our single job role would have us believe.

00:15:43.759 – 00:15:45.446

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Also, we need to be shown.

00:15:45.566 – 00:15:47.603

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We're experiential, so you change the culture,

00:15:47.603 – 00:15:49.769

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and every time you do, you make it easier, right?

00:15:49.769 – 00:15:53.234

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you're making it easier for somebody else to question something big when you

00:15:53.234 – 00:15:55.834

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
question something small, as long as how you're doing it is

00:15:55.834 – 00:15:58.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
actually, you know, well-intentioned and effective.

00:15:59.286 – 00:16:03.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We can keep going. This is thinking beyond the job role of

00:16:03.046 – 00:16:06.423

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
engineering in particular, but also everything else.

00:16:06.423 – 00:16:10.246

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How does this sort of behavior change how we work together?

00:16:11.606 – 00:16:12.646

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What does it mean for our life?

00:16:14.926 – 00:16:18.539

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool. All right, so we talked about mostly reactive stuff

00:16:18.539 – 00:16:21.591

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
for now, which is important and most we're going

00:16:21.591 – 00:16:25.328

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to face. However, you can do stuff that no one asked you to

00:16:25.328 – 00:16:29.938

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
do. Spoiler, you're a free person. You don't have to do everything you're

00:16:29.938 – 00:16:32.678

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
told. You will reap the consequences of not

00:16:32.678 – 00:16:36.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
doing what you're told, so that's also true. However...

00:16:37.766 – 00:16:39.920

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You can do things that nobody asked you to do.

00:16:39.920 – 00:16:42.486

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is easier because nobody's paying attention to it.

00:16:43.766 – 00:16:46.493

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I am of the belief that collectively as a society,

00:16:46.493 – 00:16:49.071

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but also of course that permeates even our culture,

00:16:49.071 – 00:16:52.739

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially in large organizations. We are severely deficient in proactive

00:16:52.739 – 00:16:55.813

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enthusiasm. That is, seeing a thing that could change and not

00:16:55.813 – 00:16:58.540

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just complaining about it at the water cooler, but no,

00:16:58.540 – 00:17:02.406

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm actually going to take some steps. I'm going to start asking some people.

00:17:02.526 – 00:17:05.585

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm gonna start, you know, putting some allies together,

00:17:05.585 – 00:17:09.234

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
see what they think about this, making sure my understanding of the

00:17:09.234 – 00:17:13.044

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
opportunity or problem is right. And then just start putting things in

00:17:13.044 – 00:17:16.908

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
motion, start talking about it. You don't even necessarily have to act,

00:17:16.908 – 00:17:17.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but you can. And

00:17:19.526 – 00:17:23.488

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We are very deficient in this. And a lot of this is just how things work

00:17:23.488 – 00:17:27.504

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
in terms of a top-down structure and making sure that things are ordered.

00:17:27.504 – 00:17:31.954

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But that's very difficult in a changing environment when you can spin up software

00:17:31.954 – 00:17:34.830

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or various other products very quickly. AI assisted,

00:17:34.830 – 00:17:38.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
particularly at the prototype and early development stages.

00:17:38.726 – 00:17:41.553

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Very, very fast. When change happens so rapidly,

00:17:41.553 – 00:17:44.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and in our industry, culturally, everything is moving.

00:17:45.846 – 00:17:50.496

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's difficult to have a very rigid, linear process for development.

00:17:50.496 – 00:17:55.684

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You need people who are sort of lower on the chains, bottom-up intelligence,

00:17:55.684 – 00:18:00.940

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to identify opportunities and challenges and actually feel like they have the

00:18:00.940 – 00:18:05.926

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
courage and the ability to do something about it. My advice is to just...

00:18:06.086 – 00:18:08.956

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Try. Now, if you're going to act outside your job

00:18:08.956 – 00:18:12.744

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
role, which I do many times, make sure you're doing your job well

00:18:12.744 – 00:18:15.384

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
first. That should be without saying that you

00:18:15.384 – 00:18:19.516

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
are at least doing your job well, and you're not causing more problems,

00:18:19.516 – 00:18:23.017

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and you're also not neglecting your actual responsibilities,

00:18:23.017 – 00:18:24.566

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your core responsibilities.

00:18:25.446 – 00:18:27.836

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I do think we have a greater responsibility.

00:18:27.836 – 00:18:32.137

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And the last thing I'll say about that is my favorite approach is literally just

00:18:32.137 – 00:18:36.173

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
picking higher level company goals. You know, like we had a goal last year,

00:18:36.173 – 00:18:38.988

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think, or whatever, increase marketplace vibrancy.

00:18:38.988 – 00:18:41.749

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's your goal. You're on a specific thing with a

00:18:41.749 – 00:18:44.192

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
specific task. But if you have free capacity,

00:18:44.192 – 00:18:47.006

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or you can just talk to people or get an idea going,

00:18:47.606 – 00:18:51.339

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That is your goal. You are responsible to higher level ideas

00:18:51.339 – 00:18:56.051

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and values and company directives. And that is the easiest way to circumvent

00:18:56.051 – 00:19:01.007

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
lower level sort of bad ideas or just complacency or nobody wants to take it on.

00:19:01.007 – 00:19:05.903

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you are willing to supply the effort, you're willing to take a little bit of

00:19:05.903 – 00:19:07.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
career capital risk,

00:19:08.326 – 00:19:13.346

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and you can point to something that is aligned to company values somewhere,

00:19:13.346 – 00:19:18.102

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
directive somewhere, you can do it. Just go do it. Don't worry so much.

00:19:18.102 – 00:19:22.659

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as you're being responsible and you're not negligent, again,

00:19:22.659 – 00:19:25.962

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
don't figure it out. You know what the risks are.

00:19:25.962 – 00:19:26.886

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just go do it.

00:19:27.206 – 00:19:31.668

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Don't worry about the billing codes. Tell your manager if you want to.

00:19:31.668 – 00:19:35.689

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But that is my advice. That's where most of the positive change

00:19:35.689 – 00:19:39.710

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that I've been able to create has come from. I just didn't ask.

00:19:39.710 – 00:19:42.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I asked where I was concerned. But beyond that,

00:19:43.926 – 00:19:48.156

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just go try things or just make enough to show somebody, to inspire somebody.

00:19:48.156 – 00:19:51.138

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It seems so simple, but this is just a reminder. Yeah,

00:19:51.138 – 00:19:55.477

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you can do things that nobody asks you to do. Not only can you, but you should.

00:19:55.477 – 00:19:56.886

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think that you have.

00:19:58.406 – 00:19:59.526

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Every right to do so.

00:20:00.806 – 00:20:05.486

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So say what you really mean in the next slide is also pretty related to this.

00:20:05.486 – 00:20:08.426

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Chances are you know something that is valuable.

00:20:08.426 – 00:20:13.286

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And do not discount that because it is outside of your lane, essentially. Again,

00:20:13.286 – 00:20:17.666

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
however, there's always wait to, if you're going to go against the flow,

00:20:17.666 – 00:20:20.786

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which is fine, we need people to change the flow of

00:20:20.786 – 00:20:21.206

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
things,

00:20:21.766 – 00:20:23.526

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just, you know, make sure.

00:20:24.566 – 00:20:27.414

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're likely to be right. You need to be effective.

00:20:27.414 – 00:20:31.229

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But say what you really mean, because if you don't say what you really

00:20:31.229 – 00:20:34.507

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
mean, just like before, the friction and the pressure in the

00:20:34.507 – 00:20:38.537

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
system, it always comes out somewhere. Chances are you're not the only one

00:20:38.537 – 00:20:41.331

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
feeling it. I highly recommend that you are direct,

00:20:41.331 – 00:20:43.910

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're transparent, obviously non-inflammatory.

00:20:43.910 – 00:20:46.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How you say things really, really matters.

00:20:46.646 – 00:20:51.830

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as all those boxes are checked, I have never regretted speaking my mind.

00:20:51.830 – 00:20:54.966

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And things almost always get better when you do.

00:20:57.686 – 00:21:02.339

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hand in hand with that is the next one. Oh, ask for what you really want.

00:21:02.339 – 00:21:05.734

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a real crazy idea, but you are a free person.

00:21:05.734 – 00:21:09.695

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And this organization, like every organization at every level,

00:21:09.695 – 00:21:14.034

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is just composed of people. And if those people don't say or ask for

00:21:14.034 – 00:21:18.246

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they want in the way that they work, what they're working on,

00:21:18.526 – 00:21:21.147

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they think matters, what they think is effective,

00:21:21.147 – 00:21:24.243

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how they think things could be improved, then it doesn't happen.

00:21:24.243 – 00:21:28.150

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What you're going to get is you're going to get the people who are willing to ask

00:21:28.150 – 00:21:30.627

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they want, you're going to get what they want.

00:21:30.627 – 00:21:33.057

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And if those are not aligned, well, that's on you.

00:21:33.057 – 00:21:37.011

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So hopefully this helps in the sense that I believe there are only two things that

00:21:37.011 – 00:21:38.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
actually matter here. Effectiveness.

00:21:38.766 – 00:21:44.108

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and alignment, meaning to company goals, product goals, your role, moral, ethical,

00:21:44.108 – 00:21:47.969

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your personal values, as long as it's aligned and it works,

00:21:47.969 – 00:21:52.796

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
literally everything else is just somebody's opinion. So that in practice,

00:21:52.796 – 00:21:57.686

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody else's opinion can matter a lot, depending on whose opinion it is.

00:21:57.966 – 00:22:01.084

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So, you know, but it's important to remember that you

00:22:01.084 – 00:22:05.702

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
can have what you want and you're only going to get it if you ask for it or you

00:22:05.702 – 00:22:08.819

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work for it. So if you feel strongly about something,

00:22:08.819 – 00:22:13.437

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
whether it's a process change or whether it's a change in investment or product

00:22:13.437 – 00:22:16.381

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
direction, don't be afraid to start a conversation

00:22:16.381 – 00:22:17.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and start asking for it.

00:22:18.126 – 00:22:21.186

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
At the very least, get it going. You don't have to come out the gate

00:22:21.186 – 00:22:23.624

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
demanding stuff. That's probably not going to work out

00:22:23.624 – 00:22:26.684

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
well. But that's my advice. Don't forget that you can change things.

00:22:26.684 – 00:22:28.768

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just a reminder. And every time you do, again,

00:22:28.768 – 00:22:31.206

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you give everyone else a license to do the same thing.

00:22:32.286 – 00:22:35.456

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But even if it doesn't work, you may have inspired somebody.

00:22:35.456 – 00:22:38.834

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So there's no separation. And I mentioned this last time between

00:22:38.834 – 00:22:41.849

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work and life. I don't see it that way. You should bring,

00:22:41.849 – 00:22:45.798

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you should be getting something out of your work. So selfish, selflessness,

00:22:45.798 – 00:22:48.708

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
meaning it is for me, but it's also for everybody else.

00:22:48.708 – 00:22:52.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's a good way to live. And I think you should bring yourself

00:22:52.246 – 00:22:54.874

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
into your work as much as you can, because again,

00:22:54.874 – 00:22:58.711

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're giving a license to other people around you to do the same thing.

00:22:58.711 – 00:23:01.286

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a different kind of defiance. It is a...

00:23:02.366 – 00:23:05.817

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is who I want to be, how I want to act. And of course,

00:23:05.817 – 00:23:09.325

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it can cause problems, but you're giving license to everyone

00:23:09.325 – 00:23:12.890

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
else to do the same. And it's creating more of a culture that

00:23:12.890 – 00:23:16.973

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're looking for. Of course, there is a risk. But this is my advice,

00:23:16.973 – 00:23:19.791

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which is if you feel things, if you want things,

00:23:19.791 – 00:23:23.126

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
if you have things you need to say, especially when it is

00:23:23.326 – 00:23:27.469

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
other people's interests. That's the selflessness part of that.

00:23:27.469 – 00:23:31.677

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's in their interest as well. Just ask for it, just demand it.

00:23:31.677 – 00:23:36.726

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think you'll be surprised by the results. That is my experience anyway.

00:23:38.966 – 00:23:42.190

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, I think there's one more, right? Here we go. Yeah,

00:23:42.190 – 00:23:45.777

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'll leave you with this actual part and then we will go into Q&

00:23:45.777 – 00:23:48.584

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A or discussion. Just you can tell me how wrong I am.

00:23:48.584 – 00:23:51.912

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so that is, there's a moment coming for each of you.

00:23:51.912 – 00:23:54.407

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I just, I just know it will happen because that

00:23:54.407 – 00:23:57.526

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just seems to be how reality works. Now that you know this,

00:23:58.006 – 00:24:01.963

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Now that you're aware of this, there's an inflection point where some

00:24:01.963 – 00:24:06.202

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work you think is not worth doing or is counter to the actual goals of the

00:24:06.202 – 00:24:09.706

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
product or the business or what the customer wants. Reactive,

00:24:09.706 – 00:24:13.041

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or you're going to see a problem and you're going to know,

00:24:13.041 – 00:24:17.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I could probably do something about that. You're going to have a choice.

00:24:17.246 – 00:24:20.248

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a moment where you will have to decide, will I?

00:24:20.248 – 00:24:23.302

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Am I going to do something or not? When I say something,

00:24:23.302 – 00:24:26.625

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
am I going to ask a question? Am I going to get more context?

00:24:26.625 – 00:24:30.912

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Assume competency in the other person. However, you're going to just ignore it.

00:24:30.912 – 00:24:35.360

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're going to quietly bury it and just move on and pretend that you did not know

00:24:35.360 – 00:24:36.646

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that you could have had.

00:24:37.206 – 00:24:40.203

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
some small act of defiance here and made things better.

00:24:40.203 – 00:24:44.590

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So it's really your choice in that moment. And I promise if you make that choice,

00:24:44.590 – 00:24:49.138

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you will not be the same person afterward. And it will affect how you see everything

00:24:49.138 – 00:24:52.562

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
in life and every challenge, especially the ones with conflict,

00:24:52.562 – 00:24:53.846

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially the ones that

00:24:55.046 – 00:24:58.721

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
feel right, but are not convenient for you.

00:24:58.721 – 00:25:04.065

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And you will not regret, at least I have never regretted making

00:25:04.065 – 00:25:10.162

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the choice that was not convenient for me, but felt right at some level.

00:25:10.162 – 00:25:14.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that's the talk. Anyone have any questions?

00:25:14.726 – 00:25:15.526

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Comments.

00:25:24.886 – 00:25:26.486

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We have a Greg.

00:25:30.486 – 00:25:35.166

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I love this, Steven. Thank you for doing it. I had a...

00:25:33.406 – 00:25:33.846

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay.

00:25:36.446 – 00:25:37.286

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mentor when I.

00:25:38.326 – 00:25:39.686

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I was much younger and had...

00:25:40.886 – 00:25:43.206

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
First started my career at Cox who taught me that.

00:25:44.286 – 00:25:47.545

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
If you're gonna wait for permission to do the right thing,

00:25:47.545 – 00:25:50.086

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
you're probably gonna be waiting for a while.

00:25:51.446 – 00:25:52.406

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I love what you were.

00:25:53.446 – 00:25:57.313

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Saying about, you know, it's OK to do things that you can do more

00:25:57.313 – 00:25:57.606

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
than.

00:25:58.926 – 00:26:00.086

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
What you've been asked to do?

00:26:01.766 – 00:26:04.566

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
But my question is, you talked a little bit about...

00:26:06.246 – 00:26:07.126

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Defiance.

00:26:08.006 – 00:26:12.646

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm wondering what your thoughts are about compliance.

00:26:14.886 – 00:26:15.846

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think that...

00:26:17.206 – 00:26:20.697

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Most of what we do, as long as things are working,

00:26:20.697 – 00:26:25.420

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
should be compliant, right? You don't want to introduce noise into a

00:26:25.420 – 00:26:29.869

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
system, even just, you know, the medicine becomes worse than the

00:26:29.869 – 00:26:34.250

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
poison. At some point, my thoughts are compliance should be the

00:26:34.250 – 00:26:36.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
norm in a functional system.

00:26:36.486 – 00:26:40.006

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You shouldn't need this out all that often, however.

00:26:41.286 – 00:26:45.643

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think it's important to know that we are individuals and that we should be

00:26:45.643 – 00:26:49.491

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
able to express a defiance against the status quo or how things are

00:26:49.491 – 00:26:51.981

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
traditionally done, or against complacency,

00:26:51.981 – 00:26:55.885

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just didn't do the research, or didn't put a lot of thought into it,

00:26:55.885 – 00:26:59.620

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or it was politically convenient for somebody else. This is easy,

00:26:59.620 – 00:27:02.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or it's too much work, or it takes too long.

00:27:02.686 – 00:27:05.300

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Whatever. We should feel like we can be

00:27:05.300 – 00:27:09.220

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
non-compliant without concern. Again, for the greater good,

00:27:09.220 – 00:27:14.578

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
should be net positive, well-intentioned, without too much concern for ourselves,

00:27:13.526 – 00:27:13.686

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mm.

00:27:14.578 – 00:27:18.106

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
even if there is some. It does take a little courage,

00:27:18.106 – 00:27:21.046

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it should be compliant most of the time.

00:27:22.246 – 00:27:27.176

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And a lot, so much of this is in the how, not the what you're doing. Oh,

00:27:27.176 – 00:27:31.363

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm still here. That is my opinion. If you are non-compliant,

00:27:27.526 – 00:27:28.006

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mhm.

00:27:31.363 – 00:27:34.806

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how you are non-compliant is very, very important.

00:27:35.846 – 00:27:42.138

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, I didn't want to lead the witness. And we don't have to go any further into

00:27:38.246 – 00:27:38.646

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Sure.

00:27:42.138 – 00:27:45.591

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
this, but I do wonder if a healthier system,

00:27:45.591 – 00:27:48.966

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
if in a healthy system, would we rather see

00:27:52.486 – 00:27:56.326

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Active defiance over malicious compliance.

00:27:57.206 – 00:28:01.143

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would, personally, but I'm incredibly biased giving this

00:28:01.143 – 00:28:05.479

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
speech. So I'd say yes, it depends. The more disordered you are,

00:28:04.966 – 00:28:05.366

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay.

00:28:05.479 – 00:28:10.283

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the more important it is that the people are individually competent and

00:28:10.283 – 00:28:14.886

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
well-intentioned in a distributed system, I think, for most of them.

00:28:15.726 – 00:28:19.405

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
hierarchy and structure and process make up for a lot of failings,

00:28:19.405 – 00:28:23.083

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
some of which could be moral failings. That's definitely possible.

00:28:23.083 – 00:28:26.980

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Whatever you want to call that. Not necessarily doing the wrong thing,

00:28:26.980 – 00:28:31.482

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but being lazy or just taking a shortcut. You need higher quality people, really,

00:28:31.482 – 00:28:34.446

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
if you're going to have more disorder, is my opinion.

00:28:36.206 – 00:28:37.446

MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
There, go ahead, Gregori.

00:28:39.686 – 00:28:43.286

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Happy New Year, everyone. Very good talk. Haddad.

00:28:44.726 – 00:28:47.731

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
A question, because I always recommend the team to

00:28:47.731 – 00:28:50.560

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
speak up, but I think that is my personal bias,

00:28:50.560 – 00:28:53.152

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
and I don't know, based on your experience,

00:28:53.152 – 00:28:56.923

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
if that comply or it doesn't matter, always advise people like,

00:28:56.923 – 00:29:01.754

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
it's okay to challenge an idea or person, but you also have to look at the forum.

00:29:01.754 – 00:29:03.286

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
You know, if it's a 300...

00:29:03.526 – 00:29:06.710

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
people, teams meeting at the end of a sprint

00:29:06.710 – 00:29:10.884

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
review, you know, you speaking up or questioning may sound

00:29:10.884 – 00:29:14.916

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
very different, but if it's like a one-on-one or a small

00:29:14.916 – 00:29:20.646

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
group, so I always advise people to like, hey, a good question can sound very...

00:29:22.566 – 00:29:26.552

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
destructive in the different forums. So like, do you have any recommendation?

00:29:26.552 – 00:29:28.494

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Like, I always recommend start with a

00:29:28.494 – 00:29:32.582

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
one-on-one or small group before you build up, but is it me being too cautious?

00:29:32.582 – 00:29:34.166

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Like, what's your take on that?

00:29:36.166 – 00:29:39.234

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So the delivery matters a lot, but yes, also the forum.

00:29:39.234 – 00:29:42.467

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Like we are social creatures, right? Our reputation. Yeah,

00:29:41.926 – 00:29:43.846

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
I know, but those are, yes.

00:29:42.467 – 00:29:45.206

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the threats to our reputation, perceived threats.

00:29:45.206 – 00:29:48.383

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Perception is everything. There's only perception, right?

00:29:48.006 – 00:29:49.526

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, yeah.

00:29:48.383 – 00:29:52.657

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that matters. The forum matters. I think I mentioned this in the last talk

00:29:52.657 – 00:29:56.930

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that one of my favorite approaches in order to be able to challenge something

00:29:56.930 – 00:29:59.943

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with me

00:29:59.686 – 00:29:59.926

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Who?

00:29:59.943 – 00:30:00.326

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
really.

00:30:00.646 – 00:30:05.277

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is to go talk to people who it is their thing to have something to do with this

00:30:05.277 – 00:30:08.809

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and get their allegiance beforehand, make sure I understand,

00:30:08.809 – 00:30:13.208

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but also literally rope them in. Now it's not Steven. Now it's Steven plus,

00:30:12.046 – 00:30:12.406

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Teri.

00:30:13.208 – 00:30:16.103

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you know, the actual people who should care about

00:30:16.103 – 00:30:19.286

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this and bringing them to bear on the problem. And now

00:30:20.086 – 00:30:23.586

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You cannot be written off. It's really not just a you thing.

00:30:23.586 – 00:30:28.003

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That is an easy approach that takes a little less individual risk and causes

00:30:28.003 – 00:30:28.806

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
less problems.

00:30:29.366 – 00:30:32.661

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, true, true. I was less concerned about the people

00:30:32.661 – 00:30:35.956

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
asking the question. It's more the person receiving the

00:30:35.956 – 00:30:40.545

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
question may feel more attacked if... No, it's just I think the forum kind of

00:30:37.686 – 00:30:39.926

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how not to feel attacked, is that what you're asking for?

00:30:40.545 – 00:30:45.134

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
change people receive your question. You know, if I ask you a question about,

00:30:45.134 – 00:30:47.782

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
hey, I don't think we're going to make money

00:30:47.782 – 00:30:51.606

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
on that product at the coffee machine versus a one-on-one versus

00:30:52.326 – 00:30:56.211

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
A team meeting with 300 people, people tend to react differently to the

00:30:56.211 – 00:30:56.966

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
same question.

00:30:57.486 – 00:31:00.299

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, the social cost is much higher to getting

00:30:59.686 – 00:31:00.246

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, I am.

00:31:00.299 – 00:31:04.693

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it right. We all act differently in those. The easiest thing I can say is,

00:31:04.693 – 00:31:08.911

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's all culture. Every time, we're all casting a vote with our actions

00:31:08.911 – 00:31:12.192

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
all the time. So if people always react poorly in these

00:31:10.366 – 00:31:10.966

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Mhm.

00:31:12.192 – 00:31:15.649

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
kinds of settings, you better believe no one's going to be

00:31:15.649 – 00:31:17.406

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
asking hard questions anymore.

00:31:17.606 – 00:31:18.406

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
To.

00:31:17.766 – 00:31:20.913

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Is that what you want? Because they're still asking them.

00:31:20.913 – 00:31:25.199

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
They're just asking them quietly amongst each other and to themselves in their

00:31:25.199 – 00:31:28.779

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
heads. And there would still be a problem. You've just buried it.

00:31:27.686 – 00:31:28.246

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
True.

00:31:28.779 – 00:31:31.871

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that's even worse. So what you want is to, you know,

00:31:31.871 – 00:31:36.048

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't want to make things worse by overreacting or disincentivizing that

00:31:36.048 – 00:31:39.086

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
kind of behavior. It's important to look at the intent.

00:31:39.846 – 00:31:43.992

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
because there is a cost. Nobody, just like standing up and trying to make

00:31:43.992 – 00:31:47.354

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
something better. If it works out or it has a good outcome,

00:31:47.354 – 00:31:52.060

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't have to be right. It has a good, worthwhile outcome, even the discussion,

00:31:48.726 – 00:31:49.326

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Mm-hmm.

00:31:52.060 – 00:31:56.542

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
people will be incentivized to do the same. They will feel safe to do the same.

00:31:56.542 – 00:31:58.166

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If the opposite happens, then

00:31:58.486 – 00:32:01.426

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You better believe that people will not feel safe to do the same,

00:32:01.426 – 00:32:02.406

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and it will get worse.

00:32:02.726 – 00:32:06.106

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yes, yes. And on the compliance comment before,

00:32:06.106 – 00:32:11.669

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
the guideline I normally give my team is like, as long as it's ethical, legal,

00:32:11.669 – 00:32:17.232

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
and you use the money and the capacity, like it's your own money and business,

00:32:17.232 – 00:32:19.766

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
like I think most people should have

00:32:21.286 – 00:32:25.654

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
the room to try. I think it's, I think I'm always concerned when people

00:32:25.654 – 00:32:28.809

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
tell me they want to stay in their lane, like it's,

00:32:28.809 – 00:32:31.902

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
because I think people tend to restrict, you know,

00:32:31.902 – 00:32:36.391

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
make their lane smaller and smaller, and then we don't add as much value.

00:32:36.391 – 00:32:39.606

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
So I always advise people that, I think if you like.

00:32:40.246 – 00:32:45.260

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Consider, I think, which is your point, you know, that it's your own business,

00:32:45.260 – 00:32:48.941

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
your own mission, and you want to make the best decision.

00:32:48.941 – 00:32:51.606

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
I think we have more leeway than we think.

00:32:52.966 – 00:32:57.042

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would agree, especially if it works out, and especially if you're thoughtful

00:32:56.446 – 00:32:56.886

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

00:32:57.042 – 00:33:01.375

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enough and not wasteful and you can start to demonstrate that it could work, right?

00:33:00.246 – 00:33:00.966

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
True, true.

00:33:01.375 – 00:33:03.851

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You know, you don't have to just bet everything

00:33:03.851 – 00:33:06.998

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
immediately. Yeah, I would love to see more of that as well.

00:33:04.566 – 00:33:05.046

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

00:33:06.998 – 00:33:10.609

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But I think honestly, you know, just defines at the quality assurance

00:33:10.609 – 00:33:13.446

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
level and saying, hey guys, this ain't ready. This was

00:33:13.846 – 00:33:16.768

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do you even know this is going to work? It's totally fine,

00:33:14.006 – 00:33:14.286

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

00:33:16.768 – 00:33:19.644

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just between you and your four teammates. That is also great,

00:33:19.446 – 00:33:20.406

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Chu.

00:33:19.644 – 00:33:23.401

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and I think we should see more of that. You don't necessarily need to go start a

00:33:23.401 – 00:33:25.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
startup within Cox Auto in order to make a change.

00:33:26.166 – 00:33:28.806

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, good point, good point. Thank you.

00:33:28.726 – 00:33:32.246

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah. Any other questions or comments?

00:33:38.246 – 00:33:42.696

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool. I mentioned this on the last one. If you do any of this and you get

00:33:42.696 – 00:33:46.063

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
positive results, please send me a message and tell me.

00:33:46.063 – 00:33:49.310

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I won't share it or anything. I just, I want to know.

00:33:49.310 – 00:33:54.120

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I want to know if this worked for you. And hopefully you all found this useful.

00:33:54.120 – 00:33:57.366

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you found it valuable, please let me know as well.

00:33:58.286 – 00:34:01.732

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Because, you know, it's hard to read a crowd with a bunch of

00:34:01.732 – 00:34:06.025

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
icons. But yeah, thanks for coming. Feel free to message me if you have any

00:34:06.025 – 00:34:06.646

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
follow-ups.

00:34:07.126 – 00:34:08.326

Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Thank you so much. Take care.

00:34:07.366 – 00:34:10.720

Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington)
Not us, and then thank you, Steven, while the translation gets taken care of

00:34:09.046 – 00:34:09.846

Recce, Rocco (CAI - North Hills)
Thank you.

00:34:10.720 – 00:34:11.286

Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington)
by some help.

00:34:11.526 – 00:34:11.766

Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Bye.