1 00:00:03,566 --> 00:00:08,287 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Everybody, thanks for coming to this talk. Let me share my screen. 2 00:00:08,287 --> 00:00:09,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Talk over the slides. 3 00:00:12,246 --> 00:00:12,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Um... 4 00:00:13,726 --> 00:00:14,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Where'd it go? 5 00:00:16,646 --> 00:00:16,806 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Mm. 6 00:00:18,806 --> 00:00:19,366 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): There it is. 7 00:00:26,726 --> 00:00:27,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Cool. 8 00:00:28,166 --> 00:00:30,006 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So hello, I am Steven Schrembeck. 9 00:00:31,086 --> 00:00:36,335 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): A software developer here. And this talk is not your job. Well, no, 10 00:00:36,335 --> 00:00:36,566 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): no. 11 00:00:37,846 --> 00:00:40,993 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Hey, listen, there we go. The art of defiance, 12 00:00:40,993 --> 00:00:43,939 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): defiant PowerPoint presentation. This talk, 13 00:00:43,939 --> 00:00:47,688 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): like the last talk I did for the Q3 Engineering Summit, 14 00:00:47,688 --> 00:00:50,969 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): which I was very happy to do, was well received, 15 00:00:50,969 --> 00:00:54,986 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): so I figured I would do something spiritually similar here. 16 00:00:54,986 --> 00:00:56,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is like the last one. 17 00:00:56,846 --> 00:00:59,993 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): deep meaning at work. This one is half philosophy, 18 00:00:59,993 --> 00:01:04,990 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): half practical advice on how to change your own behavior, how to change culture, 19 00:01:00,326 --> 00:01:00,566 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Yeah. 20 00:01:04,990 --> 00:01:07,767 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): get what you want at work, do better things. 21 00:01:07,767 --> 00:01:10,667 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And it's seen through the lens of engineering, 22 00:01:10,667 --> 00:01:14,060 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but it is not specifically and only about engineering. 23 00:01:14,060 --> 00:01:17,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So that is what I'm assuming this is for, but it's 24 00:01:17,366 --> 00:01:21,637 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): more broadly applicable. All right, so let's talk about what this is about. 25 00:01:21,637 --> 00:01:24,896 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Take about 30 minutes, and then we'll leave about 10 plus 26 00:01:24,896 --> 00:01:28,548 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): minutes for questions at the end. And yeah, we'll leave Q&A. 27 00:01:28,548 --> 00:01:32,088 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And it's really more of a conversation. If you think I'm dumb, 28 00:01:32,088 --> 00:01:35,123 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you don't like the ideas, or you have your own ideas, 29 00:01:35,123 --> 00:01:36,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'd love to hear it. 30 00:01:36,286 --> 00:01:40,546 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's just as valid as a question. But until then, I'm going to talk. 31 00:01:40,546 --> 00:01:44,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So what is this about? This is about how to thoughtfully use 32 00:01:44,206 --> 00:01:48,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Defiance in order to improve our product development, our operations, 33 00:01:48,406 --> 00:01:53,026 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): anything about how the business works. Improve the quality of life, that is, 34 00:01:53,026 --> 00:01:56,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I mentioned this in the last showing of this talk. 35 00:01:56,726 --> 00:02:01,096 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Making things like better and making people want to be here is totally valid. 36 00:02:01,096 --> 00:02:04,738 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): As long as it's not like detracting from other important things, 37 00:02:04,738 --> 00:02:08,043 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you have a license to do that. So this is also about that, 38 00:02:08,043 --> 00:02:10,564 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): making it more fun, wanting to come to work, 39 00:02:10,564 --> 00:02:14,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): enjoying what you're doing. In my mind, nobody's measuring that, 40 00:02:14,206 --> 00:02:15,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but it does matter. All right. 41 00:02:16,086 --> 00:02:21,977 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So beyond the actual process, hey Rick, I think your mic is unmuted just in case 42 00:02:16,566 --> 00:02:16,726 Wallace, Steve (CAI - Texas): Yes. 43 00:02:21,977 --> 00:02:24,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you sneeze or start coughing. 44 00:02:25,486 --> 00:02:27,686 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): My bad. Keep going. You're doing great. 45 00:02:26,326 --> 00:02:27,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You're gonna... 46 00:02:28,326 --> 00:02:29,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I would let you know. 47 00:02:29,286 --> 00:02:29,846 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Yeah, yeah. 48 00:02:30,286 --> 00:02:30,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Um... 49 00:02:31,686 --> 00:02:34,778 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Talking about how roles and the definition of roles, 50 00:02:34,778 --> 00:02:39,154 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): obviously from an engineering perspective, change in a changing landscape. 51 00:02:39,154 --> 00:02:43,587 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Everything is changing all the time. So this is the last one was more about 52 00:02:43,587 --> 00:02:48,021 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): how do I enjoy my job and my life? How do I find meaning in what I'm doing, 53 00:02:48,021 --> 00:02:50,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): whatever I'm doing, despite what's going on? 54 00:02:51,006 --> 00:02:55,858 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is much more about how am I involved in it? Things are going to change. 55 00:02:55,858 --> 00:02:59,702 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): What is my place in this? And how should I think about this? 56 00:02:59,702 --> 00:03:02,978 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): How do I do it? And then we'll sort of take it even 57 00:03:02,978 --> 00:03:07,830 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): beyond that and more out into the rest of your life, which we'll talk about. 58 00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:09,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And then of course, the last and 59 00:03:09,926 --> 00:03:13,467 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Fairly important part is, yeah, how not to do this wrong and get fired 60 00:03:13,467 --> 00:03:16,708 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and actually just make things worse. You know, well-intentioned, 61 00:03:16,708 --> 00:03:20,399 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but you're actually, you're causing chaos, so you're making things worse. 62 00:03:20,399 --> 00:03:24,538 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So we're going to talk about some of the strategies and the risks and how to think 63 00:03:24,538 --> 00:03:26,981 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): about this. So I'm going to give you this formal 64 00:03:26,981 --> 00:03:28,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): warning. Everybody's an adult here. 65 00:03:29,126 --> 00:03:33,931 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is advice. Take it or leave it, but how you apply it is on you. 66 00:03:33,931 --> 00:03:38,944 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Don't go doing some things that see when I could do this and, you know, 67 00:03:38,944 --> 00:03:40,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it's not my fault. So 68 00:03:41,646 --> 00:03:45,759 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): be wise and you know, let's go from there. I'm not going to give you a whole lot 69 00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:46,926 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): more hedging than that. 70 00:03:48,166 --> 00:03:48,566 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Cool. 71 00:03:49,766 --> 00:03:53,526 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So, let's start with a simple scenario. This talk is in two parts. 72 00:03:55,046 --> 00:03:59,653 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Part one is, this is a terrible idea. And it follows the scenario of you are a 73 00:03:59,653 --> 00:04:03,384 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): software developer working on an application team of some kind. 74 00:04:03,384 --> 00:04:05,366 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You have received a piece of work. 75 00:04:06,806 --> 00:04:12,878 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And in your own head, you think, that's like a really terrible idea. 76 00:04:12,878 --> 00:04:16,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): For some reason, this is not good. And... 77 00:04:17,726 --> 00:04:21,061 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): When it's on technical grounds, we generally have the domain, 78 00:04:21,061 --> 00:04:24,610 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): we have the trump card, right? Everybody's got a trump card. Now, 79 00:04:24,610 --> 00:04:28,052 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you know, if you're a doctor, you get to pull the trump card on 80 00:04:28,052 --> 00:04:32,354 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): somebody because it's a medical issue. They're not going to be giving you legal 81 00:04:32,354 --> 00:04:36,441 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): advice. In the same way, of course, we have a technical expertise and we're 82 00:04:36,441 --> 00:04:40,366 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): expected to push back for technical things. This talk is not about that. 83 00:04:40,886 --> 00:04:44,994 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Not that people don't need help with that; these ideas apply there, 84 00:04:44,994 --> 00:04:50,007 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but what we're talking about is the gray area just beyond a job role, where, okay, 85 00:04:50,007 --> 00:04:54,235 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you want me to remove this thing, or you want me to add this feature, 86 00:04:54,235 --> 00:04:58,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you want me to make this change beyond just our technical reasons, we are... 87 00:04:59,486 --> 00:05:03,094 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): full, complete, rich human beings with lots of knowledge, 88 00:05:03,094 --> 00:05:07,885 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): far beyond you know how to make some software do a thing, according to spec. 89 00:05:07,885 --> 00:05:13,048 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm of the opinion that treating yourself as a cog, a worker on the assembly line, 90 00:05:13,048 --> 00:05:18,087 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): is a terrible idea as a knowledge worker. There is so much we are leaving on the 91 00:05:18,087 --> 00:05:19,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): table. But anyway. 92 00:05:19,246 --> 00:05:22,196 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): All right, so you get the work in the hypothetical. 93 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:24,691 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): What do you do? Do you keep it to yourself? 94 00:05:24,691 --> 00:05:28,151 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Do you try to push back, at risk to yourself or your career? 95 00:05:28,151 --> 00:05:30,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Do you make change? How do you go about it? 96 00:05:31,806 --> 00:05:35,484 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Should you? And the entire purpose of this talk is to 97 00:05:35,484 --> 00:05:39,774 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): say yes, with multiple asterisks after it, I think you should, 98 00:05:39,774 --> 00:05:44,813 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and we desperately need you to. At every level, the company, the species, 99 00:05:44,813 --> 00:05:48,150 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): we all need people who are willing to push back. 100 00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:51,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And this is especially important in engineering. 101 00:05:51,686 --> 00:05:55,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): because we're often the last line of defense. We're the last thing, 102 00:05:55,206 --> 00:05:59,139 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): we're the last people to see something. And we often have the most context, 103 00:05:59,139 --> 00:06:02,451 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): not only on how it works, but we spend a lot of time with these 104 00:06:02,451 --> 00:06:06,539 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): things, literally working with them. So we have a perspective that nobody else 105 00:06:06,539 --> 00:06:10,058 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): does. If we don't speak up, there's a very good chance nobody will. 106 00:06:10,058 --> 00:06:10,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We are the last. 107 00:06:10,966 --> 00:06:16,037 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): line in the immune system. We, I believe, have a moral and greater, 108 00:06:16,037 --> 00:06:22,375 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): at least to the company or our work ethic, to speak up if we believe something isn't 109 00:06:22,375 --> 00:06:28,564 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): good for the product, for the customer, for the business goals, whatever. Morally, 110 00:06:28,564 --> 00:06:30,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): ethically, that's also valid. 111 00:06:31,966 --> 00:06:35,863 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): All right, so let's get into it. We'll start right away with a pretty 112 00:06:35,863 --> 00:06:39,258 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): sensational headline. You don't have to do what you're told. 113 00:06:39,258 --> 00:06:42,765 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Here's a couple questions to think about. Who do you work for? 114 00:06:42,765 --> 00:06:46,494 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Where does your loyalty belong? Why? And do you feel clear on why? 115 00:06:46,494 --> 00:06:48,999 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is not obvious. When there is conflict, 116 00:06:48,999 --> 00:06:51,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you've received this hypothetical piece of work. 117 00:06:51,846 --> 00:06:54,995 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is not hypothetical for most people. It could even just be, 118 00:06:54,995 --> 00:06:58,048 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): this is a waste of time. We've been doing this stuff for three 119 00:06:58,048 --> 00:07:01,681 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): months. You're giving me more of this? Like, nobody knows if it's working. 120 00:07:01,681 --> 00:07:04,685 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Why are we doing this? Whether or not you've said anything is 121 00:07:04,685 --> 00:07:07,301 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): immaterial at this point. Where does your loyalty go? 122 00:07:07,301 --> 00:07:09,917 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That matters A lot. Is it to your product or business 123 00:07:09,917 --> 00:07:11,806 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): partners who are asking for the change? 124 00:07:11,926 --> 00:07:15,263 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Is it to the customers? You know, damn the torpedoes. Like, no, 125 00:07:15,263 --> 00:07:18,861 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm here for them. This is what they want. It's clear. Look at this. 126 00:07:18,861 --> 00:07:21,937 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm here for them. And you're willing to push back against 127 00:07:21,937 --> 00:07:25,899 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): your peers. Is it for, you know, your management, the technical leadership? 128 00:07:25,899 --> 00:07:29,862 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Are they where your loyalty goes? Do you have loyalty to high level company 129 00:07:29,862 --> 00:07:31,686 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): goals over low level company goals? 130 00:07:32,166 --> 00:07:34,838 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Do you have loyalty to your friends and your relationships at the company? 131 00:07:34,838 --> 00:07:36,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's not worth burning the bridge. It's not obvious. 132 00:07:38,166 --> 00:07:42,904 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I can tell you what my answer is. You're welcome to draw from that if you 133 00:07:42,904 --> 00:07:45,849 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): want to. But it's important that you know why 134 00:07:45,849 --> 00:07:49,371 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're here and who you're working for. And my answer, 135 00:07:49,371 --> 00:07:52,764 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): which I more or less said in this last talk as well, 136 00:07:52,764 --> 00:07:58,014 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): is I work for myself and what I believe is right. I work for meaning and purpose. 137 00:07:58,014 --> 00:07:59,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I need a paycheck. 138 00:07:59,406 --> 00:08:02,509 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): A paycheck is necessary, but it's not sufficient. For me, 139 00:08:02,509 --> 00:08:05,450 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): this is my choice. I choose to do work that I think is 140 00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:09,141 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): meaningful and valuable. Not always. I know. I got to do stuff that, 141 00:08:09,141 --> 00:08:11,975 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): at least from a utility perspective, I don't get it. 142 00:08:11,975 --> 00:08:14,863 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I don't have to get everything. That's not the point. 143 00:08:14,863 --> 00:08:18,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But when I see something that I really think could be improved, 144 00:08:18,966 --> 00:08:21,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I think is wrong for some reason. 145 00:08:22,126 --> 00:08:26,217 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Then it gets interesting because my loyalty is to what I think is right and 146 00:08:26,217 --> 00:08:28,962 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): effective. I have no real love for used cars in my 147 00:08:28,962 --> 00:08:33,052 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): case in this part of the organization, but I do care about doing good work, 148 00:08:33,052 --> 00:08:36,120 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I care about people, I care about doing something that's 149 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,403 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): effective and provides value. All those things matter to me, 150 00:08:39,403 --> 00:08:41,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and that is what I'm of service to. 151 00:08:41,766 --> 00:08:46,212 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But you pick your own thing, you know? Choose your own adventure, it's your life. 152 00:08:46,212 --> 00:08:48,326 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But you're a human being and not a cog. 153 00:08:49,446 --> 00:08:53,233 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Just don't forget that. And we need you to not be a cog because 154 00:08:53,233 --> 00:08:57,731 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): we need to innovate. We need to change. We need what you bring to the table 155 00:08:57,731 --> 00:09:01,636 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): beyond your technical expertise. We'll get into that in a second. 156 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:05,660 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So the art of small defiance. So the dark secret of all engineering 157 00:09:05,660 --> 00:09:10,453 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): professions is that this is actually kind of a moot point because turns out if a 158 00:09:10,453 --> 00:09:13,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): lot of people think an idea is bad or dumb or wasteful, 159 00:09:14,406 --> 00:09:14,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Um... 160 00:09:15,766 --> 00:09:18,677 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Everybody drags their feet. Like, yeah, you estimate wrong. 161 00:09:18,677 --> 00:09:21,830 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You prioritize one thing over and over. This is a favorite tool. 162 00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:25,953 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's not clear which of these four things we should be doing. Well, I guarantee you, 163 00:09:25,953 --> 00:09:28,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): 10 times out of 10, people are going to pick the one that 164 00:09:28,766 --> 00:09:32,162 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): they think is actually more valuable or will give them some learning, 165 00:09:32,162 --> 00:09:34,926 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): like some sort of value they're going to derive from it. 166 00:09:35,446 --> 00:09:38,156 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): every single time. It always comes out somewhere. 167 00:09:38,156 --> 00:09:42,058 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If nobody says anything or nobody does anything and it's not effective, 168 00:09:42,058 --> 00:09:43,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it continues to be not effective. 169 00:09:45,126 --> 00:09:48,976 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Everybody knows that even if you're an engineer and technically that's not your 170 00:09:48,976 --> 00:09:51,237 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): job, you have the ability to drag your feet on 171 00:09:51,237 --> 00:09:54,605 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): anything or make anything poorly or take too long or deprioritize it. 172 00:09:54,605 --> 00:09:57,299 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And that's always true. That's not a nice thing to say. 173 00:09:57,299 --> 00:10:00,571 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's not an easy thing to say, but that's how human beings operate. 174 00:10:00,571 --> 00:10:04,372 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It doesn't matter what the job role is, by the way. It's not just engineering. 175 00:10:04,372 --> 00:10:05,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's always true. 176 00:10:06,166 --> 00:10:09,852 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If it's foolish, or it doesn't make sense, or it's not effective, 177 00:10:09,852 --> 00:10:12,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it's always going to come out somewhere. 178 00:10:14,006 --> 00:10:17,314 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So you're going to pay one way or another. The only real decision here is whether 179 00:10:17,314 --> 00:10:18,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're going to do something about it. 180 00:10:21,366 --> 00:10:24,911 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and address it directly. All right, so now we're going to talk about this 181 00:10:24,911 --> 00:10:27,115 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): part. I'll keep talking about this throughout 182 00:10:27,115 --> 00:10:29,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and in Q&A as well, or the discussion. 183 00:10:31,126 --> 00:10:36,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Okay, there's a lot of asterisks here. And the couple I want to... 184 00:10:37,846 --> 00:10:41,195 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): really focus on are one, you need to be somebody who is providing 185 00:10:41,195 --> 00:10:44,290 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): more value than you're taking away, like significantly more. 186 00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:47,132 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's not a good idea to do this, to start pushing back, 187 00:10:47,132 --> 00:10:48,806 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): especially outside your job role. 188 00:10:50,086 --> 00:10:53,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If you're not somebody who is already... 189 00:10:53,926 --> 00:10:57,124 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): being useful, right? You need to be able to do what you're 190 00:10:57,124 --> 00:11:00,810 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): told well first before you not try to do what you're not told well. 191 00:11:00,810 --> 00:11:04,658 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's just how human beings work. It's also a reasonable expectation. 192 00:11:04,658 --> 00:11:08,073 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So you need a track record of being competent and being right. 193 00:11:08,073 --> 00:11:12,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I should go without saying that you should at least believe you are right or 194 00:11:12,246 --> 00:11:13,926 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): at least believe you are right. 195 00:11:14,246 --> 00:11:18,119 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): likely enough to be right, a size of impact that is worth the risk. 196 00:11:18,119 --> 00:11:21,194 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And that brings us to the second part, which is data. 197 00:11:21,194 --> 00:11:24,554 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You want to be able to prove it subjectively, objectively. 198 00:11:24,554 --> 00:11:28,541 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You need to have something. Generally, it is best to pose a question, 199 00:11:28,541 --> 00:11:32,015 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): to assume competency in the people that you are questioning. 200 00:11:32,015 --> 00:11:34,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): A question is the best way to get started. 201 00:11:34,566 --> 00:11:39,063 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Hey, have you thought about this? Or how do we know it's going to have that 202 00:11:39,063 --> 00:11:41,902 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): result? I was at the grocery store to pick up a 203 00:11:41,902 --> 00:11:46,162 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): frozen pizza for lunch today, and one of the people at Kroger who stand 204 00:11:46,162 --> 00:11:48,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): around operating the self-checkout things. 205 00:11:49,886 --> 00:11:52,339 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): She came up to me and started talking to me about SNAP, 206 00:11:52,339 --> 00:11:55,186 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): like the food stamp program, and asked if I had any relatives or 207 00:11:55,186 --> 00:11:58,296 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): friends, you used that program. And I said, no. It's like, okay, well, 208 00:11:58,296 --> 00:12:01,625 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm going around telling everybody that Kroger runs the 20% discount on all 209 00:12:01,625 --> 00:12:04,210 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): produce, fruits and vegetables, if you're in that program. 210 00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:06,312 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I think it's great. We don't have any signs up. 211 00:12:06,312 --> 00:12:08,590 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I told my manager, they're not having any signs up. 212 00:12:08,590 --> 00:12:12,006 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So I'm just walking around telling people now because I think it's important. 213 00:12:13,246 --> 00:12:14,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): What I am talking about. 214 00:12:15,126 --> 00:12:19,549 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): She gets it. She gets it. Nobody asked her to do that. 215 00:12:19,549 --> 00:12:25,659 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I thought that that was fantastic, and it was a perfect example of what I'm 216 00:12:25,659 --> 00:12:31,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): trying to indicate here. The last is relationships. And that is... 217 00:12:32,926 --> 00:12:36,992 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): The point I want to make here is how you say something is more important than what 218 00:12:36,992 --> 00:12:40,665 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're saying. That's not obvious, and it will be obvious to everyone else 219 00:12:40,665 --> 00:12:44,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): around you. You can see in their response, especially when you're challenging 220 00:12:44,486 --> 00:12:46,445 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): somebody, you don't want to trigger the 221 00:12:46,445 --> 00:12:48,992 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): psychological immune system. If they get emotional, 222 00:12:48,992 --> 00:12:52,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): especially in front of other people, it's not going to go well. 223 00:12:52,646 --> 00:12:53,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So. 224 00:12:54,566 --> 00:12:58,613 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Talking to people generally, back channels first, trying to get allies, 225 00:12:58,613 --> 00:13:01,255 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): trying to ask questions, trying to understand, 226 00:13:01,255 --> 00:13:05,752 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and having the appearance of trying to understand. And not just the appearance, 227 00:13:05,752 --> 00:13:09,686 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but like genuinely also trying to understand is a great way to start. 228 00:13:10,726 --> 00:13:13,704 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And I think somebody mentioned this in the Q&A last time, 229 00:13:13,704 --> 00:13:16,153 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): is that if you just walk people through the logic, 230 00:13:16,153 --> 00:13:20,138 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you don't even have to tell them they're wrong. Most people are going to go, well, 231 00:13:20,138 --> 00:13:22,299 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): yeah. And then you're going to find the real 232 00:13:22,299 --> 00:13:24,940 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): reason that this is happening. And then at that point, 233 00:13:24,940 --> 00:13:27,485 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you can make a decision. And nobody risked anything. 234 00:13:27,485 --> 00:13:30,366 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So often things don't even get to a point of real conflict. 235 00:13:30,566 --> 00:13:33,116 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): However, when it does, it helps to have rapport. 236 00:13:33,116 --> 00:13:36,965 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It helps to have friends before you need them. Pretty basic stuff, right? 237 00:13:36,965 --> 00:13:39,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You're going to find a lot more success. 238 00:13:41,766 --> 00:13:44,703 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): There's a lot more to it, but we'll get to it later. 239 00:13:44,703 --> 00:13:49,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Make sure I don't run out of time here. All right. So this is more about culture. 240 00:13:49,246 --> 00:13:53,401 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): There are no small acts of defiance. When you push back in a thoughtful or 241 00:13:53,401 --> 00:13:56,060 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): empathetic way, also importantly, you're right. 242 00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:59,163 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Not so much that you're right, it's that it's affected. 243 00:13:59,163 --> 00:14:01,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): At the very least, the discussion. 244 00:14:01,606 --> 00:14:05,604 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): what change came out of this. It doesn't even matter that you're right, 245 00:14:05,604 --> 00:14:08,769 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that it had a net positive result. When you are defiant, 246 00:14:08,769 --> 00:14:12,490 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm not going to do this, is probably not how you want to go about 247 00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:16,321 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): this. It's not a good start. I'm not saying that you should never do 248 00:14:16,321 --> 00:14:18,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): this. You should never outright say no. 249 00:14:20,646 --> 00:14:23,706 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): However, when you push back or you question or you 250 00:14:23,706 --> 00:14:26,586 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): get involved, especially outside your job role, 251 00:14:26,586 --> 00:14:31,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): no matter how small, pretty recently, somebody wanted to put an icon in an 252 00:14:31,086 --> 00:14:33,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): application. The icon, it looked like crap. 253 00:14:33,726 --> 00:14:38,226 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Like you couldn't understand what it was communicating. It was just noise. 254 00:14:38,226 --> 00:14:38,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It was bad. 255 00:14:40,086 --> 00:14:43,484 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's my personal opinion, but I did cite some actual reasons for 256 00:14:43,484 --> 00:14:45,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): why it was unreadable, how it wasn't useful. 257 00:14:48,086 --> 00:14:51,568 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This had nothing to do with me. I was like barely even involved in this 258 00:14:51,568 --> 00:14:54,276 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): task, but you know, sort of thoughtfully brought it up, 259 00:14:54,276 --> 00:14:57,902 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): made some suggestions how it should be changed. That's it. Like it seemed, 260 00:14:57,902 --> 00:15:01,432 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): why even say anything? It seems dumb. And if it's a total waste of time, 261 00:15:01,432 --> 00:15:04,140 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): obviously, you know, get your ROI out of this. However, 262 00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:07,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but when you do that kind of thing, you are showing the people around you. 263 00:15:08,326 --> 00:15:12,335 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that it's okay to question. It's okay to have doubts about different 264 00:15:12,335 --> 00:15:15,299 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): parts of the process. How did we get to this idea? 265 00:15:15,299 --> 00:15:18,378 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): How do we know whether this is going to work or not? 266 00:15:18,378 --> 00:15:21,922 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Why are we investing so much in this? Help me understand it. 267 00:15:21,922 --> 00:15:26,105 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): When you do things like that, you're showing the people around you that 268 00:15:26,105 --> 00:15:26,686 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it's okay. 269 00:15:27,926 --> 00:15:30,976 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): to be involved in other areas of the business. 270 00:15:30,976 --> 00:15:35,129 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's okay to be involved in things that are just not your lane. 271 00:15:35,129 --> 00:15:38,893 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And human beings are complex, and we have a lot to offer. 272 00:15:38,893 --> 00:15:43,759 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We're much more expressive than our single job role would have us believe. 273 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:45,446 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Also, we need to be shown. 274 00:15:45,566 --> 00:15:47,603 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We're experiential, so you change the culture, 275 00:15:47,603 --> 00:15:49,769 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and every time you do, you make it easier, right? 276 00:15:49,769 --> 00:15:53,234 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So you're making it easier for somebody else to question something big when you 277 00:15:53,234 --> 00:15:55,834 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): question something small, as long as how you're doing it is 278 00:15:55,834 --> 00:15:58,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): actually, you know, well-intentioned and effective. 279 00:15:59,286 --> 00:16:03,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We can keep going. This is thinking beyond the job role of 280 00:16:03,046 --> 00:16:06,423 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): engineering in particular, but also everything else. 281 00:16:06,423 --> 00:16:10,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): How does this sort of behavior change how we work together? 282 00:16:11,606 --> 00:16:12,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): What does it mean for our life? 283 00:16:14,926 --> 00:16:18,539 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Cool. All right, so we talked about mostly reactive stuff 284 00:16:18,539 --> 00:16:21,591 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): for now, which is important and most we're going 285 00:16:21,591 --> 00:16:25,328 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): to face. However, you can do stuff that no one asked you to 286 00:16:25,328 --> 00:16:29,938 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): do. Spoiler, you're a free person. You don't have to do everything you're 287 00:16:29,938 --> 00:16:32,678 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): told. You will reap the consequences of not 288 00:16:32,678 --> 00:16:36,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): doing what you're told, so that's also true. However... 289 00:16:37,766 --> 00:16:39,920 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You can do things that nobody asked you to do. 290 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is easier because nobody's paying attention to it. 291 00:16:43,766 --> 00:16:46,493 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And I am of the belief that collectively as a society, 292 00:16:46,493 --> 00:16:49,071 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but also of course that permeates even our culture, 293 00:16:49,071 --> 00:16:52,739 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): especially in large organizations. We are severely deficient in proactive 294 00:16:52,739 --> 00:16:55,813 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): enthusiasm. That is, seeing a thing that could change and not 295 00:16:55,813 --> 00:16:58,540 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): just complaining about it at the water cooler, but no, 296 00:16:58,540 --> 00:17:02,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm actually going to take some steps. I'm going to start asking some people. 297 00:17:02,526 --> 00:17:05,585 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm gonna start, you know, putting some allies together, 298 00:17:05,585 --> 00:17:09,234 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): see what they think about this, making sure my understanding of the 299 00:17:09,234 --> 00:17:13,044 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): opportunity or problem is right. And then just start putting things in 300 00:17:13,044 --> 00:17:16,908 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): motion, start talking about it. You don't even necessarily have to act, 301 00:17:16,908 --> 00:17:17,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but you can. And 302 00:17:19,526 --> 00:17:23,488 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We are very deficient in this. And a lot of this is just how things work 303 00:17:23,488 --> 00:17:27,504 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): in terms of a top-down structure and making sure that things are ordered. 304 00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:31,954 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But that's very difficult in a changing environment when you can spin up software 305 00:17:31,954 --> 00:17:34,830 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): or various other products very quickly. AI assisted, 306 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:38,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): particularly at the prototype and early development stages. 307 00:17:38,726 --> 00:17:41,553 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Very, very fast. When change happens so rapidly, 308 00:17:41,553 --> 00:17:44,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and in our industry, culturally, everything is moving. 309 00:17:45,846 --> 00:17:50,496 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's difficult to have a very rigid, linear process for development. 310 00:17:50,496 --> 00:17:55,684 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You need people who are sort of lower on the chains, bottom-up intelligence, 311 00:17:55,684 --> 00:18:00,940 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): to identify opportunities and challenges and actually feel like they have the 312 00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:05,926 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): courage and the ability to do something about it. My advice is to just... 313 00:18:06,086 --> 00:18:08,956 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Try. Now, if you're going to act outside your job 314 00:18:08,956 --> 00:18:12,744 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): role, which I do many times, make sure you're doing your job well 315 00:18:12,744 --> 00:18:15,384 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): first. That should be without saying that you 316 00:18:15,384 --> 00:18:19,516 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): are at least doing your job well, and you're not causing more problems, 317 00:18:19,516 --> 00:18:23,017 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and you're also not neglecting your actual responsibilities, 318 00:18:23,017 --> 00:18:24,566 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): your core responsibilities. 319 00:18:25,446 --> 00:18:27,836 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I do think we have a greater responsibility. 320 00:18:27,836 --> 00:18:32,137 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And the last thing I'll say about that is my favorite approach is literally just 321 00:18:32,137 --> 00:18:36,173 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): picking higher level company goals. You know, like we had a goal last year, 322 00:18:36,173 --> 00:18:38,988 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I think, or whatever, increase marketplace vibrancy. 323 00:18:38,988 --> 00:18:41,749 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's your goal. You're on a specific thing with a 324 00:18:41,749 --> 00:18:44,192 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): specific task. But if you have free capacity, 325 00:18:44,192 --> 00:18:47,006 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): or you can just talk to people or get an idea going, 326 00:18:47,606 --> 00:18:51,339 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That is your goal. You are responsible to higher level ideas 327 00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:56,051 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and values and company directives. And that is the easiest way to circumvent 328 00:18:56,051 --> 00:19:01,007 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): lower level sort of bad ideas or just complacency or nobody wants to take it on. 329 00:19:01,007 --> 00:19:05,903 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If you are willing to supply the effort, you're willing to take a little bit of 330 00:19:05,903 --> 00:19:07,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): career capital risk, 331 00:19:08,326 --> 00:19:13,346 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and you can point to something that is aligned to company values somewhere, 332 00:19:13,346 --> 00:19:18,102 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): directive somewhere, you can do it. Just go do it. Don't worry so much. 333 00:19:18,102 --> 00:19:22,659 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): As long as you're being responsible and you're not negligent, again, 334 00:19:22,659 --> 00:19:25,962 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): don't figure it out. You know what the risks are. 335 00:19:25,962 --> 00:19:26,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Just go do it. 336 00:19:27,206 --> 00:19:31,668 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Don't worry about the billing codes. Tell your manager if you want to. 337 00:19:31,668 --> 00:19:35,689 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But that is my advice. That's where most of the positive change 338 00:19:35,689 --> 00:19:39,710 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that I've been able to create has come from. I just didn't ask. 339 00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:42,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I asked where I was concerned. But beyond that, 340 00:19:43,926 --> 00:19:48,156 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Just go try things or just make enough to show somebody, to inspire somebody. 341 00:19:48,156 --> 00:19:51,138 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It seems so simple, but this is just a reminder. Yeah, 342 00:19:51,138 --> 00:19:55,477 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you can do things that nobody asks you to do. Not only can you, but you should. 343 00:19:55,477 --> 00:19:56,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And I think that you have. 344 00:19:58,406 --> 00:19:59,526 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Every right to do so. 345 00:20:00,806 --> 00:20:05,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So say what you really mean in the next slide is also pretty related to this. 346 00:20:05,486 --> 00:20:08,426 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Chances are you know something that is valuable. 347 00:20:08,426 --> 00:20:13,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And do not discount that because it is outside of your lane, essentially. Again, 348 00:20:13,286 --> 00:20:17,666 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): however, there's always wait to, if you're going to go against the flow, 349 00:20:17,666 --> 00:20:20,786 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): which is fine, we need people to change the flow of 350 00:20:20,786 --> 00:20:21,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): things, 351 00:20:21,766 --> 00:20:23,526 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Just, you know, make sure. 352 00:20:24,566 --> 00:20:27,414 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're likely to be right. You need to be effective. 353 00:20:27,414 --> 00:20:31,229 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But say what you really mean, because if you don't say what you really 354 00:20:31,229 --> 00:20:34,507 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): mean, just like before, the friction and the pressure in the 355 00:20:34,507 --> 00:20:38,537 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): system, it always comes out somewhere. Chances are you're not the only one 356 00:20:38,537 --> 00:20:41,331 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): feeling it. I highly recommend that you are direct, 357 00:20:41,331 --> 00:20:43,910 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're transparent, obviously non-inflammatory. 358 00:20:43,910 --> 00:20:46,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): How you say things really, really matters. 359 00:20:46,646 --> 00:20:51,830 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): As long as all those boxes are checked, I have never regretted speaking my mind. 360 00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:54,966 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And things almost always get better when you do. 361 00:20:57,686 --> 00:21:02,339 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Hand in hand with that is the next one. Oh, ask for what you really want. 362 00:21:02,339 --> 00:21:05,734 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is a real crazy idea, but you are a free person. 363 00:21:05,734 --> 00:21:09,695 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And this organization, like every organization at every level, 364 00:21:09,695 --> 00:21:14,034 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): is just composed of people. And if those people don't say or ask for 365 00:21:14,034 --> 00:21:18,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): what they want in the way that they work, what they're working on, 366 00:21:18,526 --> 00:21:21,147 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): what they think matters, what they think is effective, 367 00:21:21,147 --> 00:21:24,243 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): how they think things could be improved, then it doesn't happen. 368 00:21:24,243 --> 00:21:28,150 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): What you're going to get is you're going to get the people who are willing to ask 369 00:21:28,150 --> 00:21:30,627 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): what they want, you're going to get what they want. 370 00:21:30,627 --> 00:21:33,057 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And if those are not aligned, well, that's on you. 371 00:21:33,057 --> 00:21:37,011 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So hopefully this helps in the sense that I believe there are only two things that 372 00:21:37,011 --> 00:21:38,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): actually matter here. Effectiveness. 373 00:21:38,766 --> 00:21:44,108 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and alignment, meaning to company goals, product goals, your role, moral, ethical, 374 00:21:44,108 --> 00:21:47,969 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): your personal values, as long as it's aligned and it works, 375 00:21:47,969 --> 00:21:52,796 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): literally everything else is just somebody's opinion. So that in practice, 376 00:21:52,796 --> 00:21:57,686 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): somebody else's opinion can matter a lot, depending on whose opinion it is. 377 00:21:57,966 --> 00:22:01,084 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So, you know, but it's important to remember that you 378 00:22:01,084 --> 00:22:05,702 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): can have what you want and you're only going to get it if you ask for it or you 379 00:22:05,702 --> 00:22:08,819 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): work for it. So if you feel strongly about something, 380 00:22:08,819 --> 00:22:13,437 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): whether it's a process change or whether it's a change in investment or product 381 00:22:13,437 --> 00:22:16,381 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): direction, don't be afraid to start a conversation 382 00:22:16,381 --> 00:22:17,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and start asking for it. 383 00:22:18,126 --> 00:22:21,186 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): At the very least, get it going. You don't have to come out the gate 384 00:22:21,186 --> 00:22:23,624 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): demanding stuff. That's probably not going to work out 385 00:22:23,624 --> 00:22:26,684 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): well. But that's my advice. Don't forget that you can change things. 386 00:22:26,684 --> 00:22:28,768 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Just a reminder. And every time you do, again, 387 00:22:28,768 --> 00:22:31,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you give everyone else a license to do the same thing. 388 00:22:32,286 --> 00:22:35,456 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But even if it doesn't work, you may have inspired somebody. 389 00:22:35,456 --> 00:22:38,834 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So there's no separation. And I mentioned this last time between 390 00:22:38,834 --> 00:22:41,849 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): work and life. I don't see it that way. You should bring, 391 00:22:41,849 --> 00:22:45,798 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you should be getting something out of your work. So selfish, selflessness, 392 00:22:45,798 --> 00:22:48,708 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): meaning it is for me, but it's also for everybody else. 393 00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:52,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That's a good way to live. And I think you should bring yourself 394 00:22:52,246 --> 00:22:54,874 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): into your work as much as you can, because again, 395 00:22:54,874 --> 00:22:58,711 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're giving a license to other people around you to do the same thing. 396 00:22:58,711 --> 00:23:01,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is a different kind of defiance. It is a... 397 00:23:02,366 --> 00:23:05,817 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is who I want to be, how I want to act. And of course, 398 00:23:05,817 --> 00:23:09,325 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it can cause problems, but you're giving license to everyone 399 00:23:09,325 --> 00:23:12,890 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): else to do the same. And it's creating more of a culture that 400 00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:16,973 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you're looking for. Of course, there is a risk. But this is my advice, 401 00:23:16,973 --> 00:23:19,791 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): which is if you feel things, if you want things, 402 00:23:19,791 --> 00:23:23,126 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): if you have things you need to say, especially when it is 403 00:23:23,326 --> 00:23:27,469 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): other people's interests. That's the selflessness part of that. 404 00:23:27,469 --> 00:23:31,677 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): It's in their interest as well. Just ask for it, just demand it. 405 00:23:31,677 --> 00:23:36,726 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And I think you'll be surprised by the results. That is my experience anyway. 406 00:23:38,966 --> 00:23:42,190 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): All right, I think there's one more, right? Here we go. Yeah, 407 00:23:42,190 --> 00:23:45,777 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'll leave you with this actual part and then we will go into Q& 408 00:23:45,777 --> 00:23:48,584 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): A or discussion. Just you can tell me how wrong I am. 409 00:23:48,584 --> 00:23:51,912 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): All right, so that is, there's a moment coming for each of you. 410 00:23:51,912 --> 00:23:54,407 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I just, I just know it will happen because that 411 00:23:54,407 --> 00:23:57,526 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): just seems to be how reality works. Now that you know this, 412 00:23:58,006 --> 00:24:01,963 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Now that you're aware of this, there's an inflection point where some 413 00:24:01,963 --> 00:24:06,202 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): work you think is not worth doing or is counter to the actual goals of the 414 00:24:06,202 --> 00:24:09,706 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): product or the business or what the customer wants. Reactive, 415 00:24:09,706 --> 00:24:13,041 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): or you're going to see a problem and you're going to know, 416 00:24:13,041 --> 00:24:17,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I could probably do something about that. You're going to have a choice. 417 00:24:17,246 --> 00:24:20,248 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): This is a moment where you will have to decide, will I? 418 00:24:20,248 --> 00:24:23,302 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Am I going to do something or not? When I say something, 419 00:24:23,302 --> 00:24:26,625 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): am I going to ask a question? Am I going to get more context? 420 00:24:26,625 --> 00:24:30,912 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Assume competency in the other person. However, you're going to just ignore it. 421 00:24:30,912 --> 00:24:35,360 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You're going to quietly bury it and just move on and pretend that you did not know 422 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:36,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that you could have had. 423 00:24:37,206 --> 00:24:40,203 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): some small act of defiance here and made things better. 424 00:24:40,203 --> 00:24:44,590 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So it's really your choice in that moment. And I promise if you make that choice, 425 00:24:44,590 --> 00:24:49,138 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you will not be the same person afterward. And it will affect how you see everything 426 00:24:49,138 --> 00:24:52,562 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): in life and every challenge, especially the ones with conflict, 427 00:24:52,562 --> 00:24:53,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): especially the ones that 428 00:24:55,046 --> 00:24:58,721 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): feel right, but are not convenient for you. 429 00:24:58,721 --> 00:25:04,065 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And you will not regret, at least I have never regretted making 430 00:25:04,065 --> 00:25:10,162 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): the choice that was not convenient for me, but felt right at some level. 431 00:25:10,162 --> 00:25:14,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So that's the talk. Anyone have any questions? 432 00:25:14,726 --> 00:25:15,526 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Comments. 433 00:25:24,886 --> 00:25:26,486 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): We have a Greg. 434 00:25:30,486 --> 00:25:35,166 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): I love this, Steven. Thank you for doing it. I had a... 435 00:25:33,406 --> 00:25:33,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Okay. 436 00:25:36,446 --> 00:25:37,286 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Mentor when I. 437 00:25:38,326 --> 00:25:39,686 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): I was much younger and had... 438 00:25:40,886 --> 00:25:43,206 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): First started my career at Cox who taught me that. 439 00:25:44,286 --> 00:25:47,545 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): If you're gonna wait for permission to do the right thing, 440 00:25:47,545 --> 00:25:50,086 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): you're probably gonna be waiting for a while. 441 00:25:51,446 --> 00:25:52,406 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): I love what you were. 442 00:25:53,446 --> 00:25:57,313 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Saying about, you know, it's OK to do things that you can do more 443 00:25:57,313 --> 00:25:57,606 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): than. 444 00:25:58,926 --> 00:26:00,086 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): What you've been asked to do? 445 00:26:01,766 --> 00:26:04,566 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): But my question is, you talked a little bit about... 446 00:26:06,246 --> 00:26:07,126 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Defiance. 447 00:26:08,006 --> 00:26:12,646 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): I'm wondering what your thoughts are about compliance. 448 00:26:14,886 --> 00:26:15,846 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I think that... 449 00:26:17,206 --> 00:26:20,697 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Most of what we do, as long as things are working, 450 00:26:20,697 --> 00:26:25,420 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): should be compliant, right? You don't want to introduce noise into a 451 00:26:25,420 --> 00:26:29,869 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): system, even just, you know, the medicine becomes worse than the 452 00:26:29,869 --> 00:26:34,250 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): poison. At some point, my thoughts are compliance should be the 453 00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:36,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): norm in a functional system. 454 00:26:36,486 --> 00:26:40,006 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You shouldn't need this out all that often, however. 455 00:26:41,286 --> 00:26:45,643 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I think it's important to know that we are individuals and that we should be 456 00:26:45,643 --> 00:26:49,491 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): able to express a defiance against the status quo or how things are 457 00:26:49,491 --> 00:26:51,981 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): traditionally done, or against complacency, 458 00:26:51,981 --> 00:26:55,885 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): just didn't do the research, or didn't put a lot of thought into it, 459 00:26:55,885 --> 00:26:59,620 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): or it was politically convenient for somebody else. This is easy, 460 00:26:59,620 --> 00:27:02,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): or it's too much work, or it takes too long. 461 00:27:02,686 --> 00:27:05,300 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Whatever. We should feel like we can be 462 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:09,220 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): non-compliant without concern. Again, for the greater good, 463 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:14,578 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): should be net positive, well-intentioned, without too much concern for ourselves, 464 00:27:13,526 --> 00:27:13,686 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Mm. 465 00:27:14,578 --> 00:27:18,106 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): even if there is some. It does take a little courage, 466 00:27:18,106 --> 00:27:21,046 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but it should be compliant most of the time. 467 00:27:22,246 --> 00:27:27,176 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And a lot, so much of this is in the how, not the what you're doing. Oh, 468 00:27:27,176 --> 00:27:31,363 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I'm still here. That is my opinion. If you are non-compliant, 469 00:27:27,526 --> 00:27:28,006 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Mhm. 470 00:27:31,363 --> 00:27:34,806 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): how you are non-compliant is very, very important. 471 00:27:35,846 --> 00:27:42,138 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Yeah, I didn't want to lead the witness. And we don't have to go any further into 472 00:27:38,246 --> 00:27:38,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Sure. 473 00:27:42,138 --> 00:27:45,591 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): this, but I do wonder if a healthier system, 474 00:27:45,591 --> 00:27:48,966 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): if in a healthy system, would we rather see 475 00:27:52,486 --> 00:27:56,326 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Active defiance over malicious compliance. 476 00:27:57,206 --> 00:28:01,143 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I would, personally, but I'm incredibly biased giving this 477 00:28:01,143 --> 00:28:05,479 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): speech. So I'd say yes, it depends. The more disordered you are, 478 00:28:04,966 --> 00:28:05,366 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): Okay. 479 00:28:05,479 --> 00:28:10,283 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): the more important it is that the people are individually competent and 480 00:28:10,283 --> 00:28:14,886 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): well-intentioned in a distributed system, I think, for most of them. 481 00:28:15,726 --> 00:28:19,405 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): hierarchy and structure and process make up for a lot of failings, 482 00:28:19,405 --> 00:28:23,083 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): some of which could be moral failings. That's definitely possible. 483 00:28:23,083 --> 00:28:26,980 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Whatever you want to call that. Not necessarily doing the wrong thing, 484 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:31,482 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but being lazy or just taking a shortcut. You need higher quality people, really, 485 00:28:31,482 --> 00:28:34,446 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): if you're going to have more disorder, is my opinion. 486 00:28:36,206 --> 00:28:37,446 MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta): There, go ahead, Gregori. 487 00:28:39,686 --> 00:28:43,286 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Happy New Year, everyone. Very good talk. Haddad. 488 00:28:44,726 --> 00:28:47,731 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): A question, because I always recommend the team to 489 00:28:47,731 --> 00:28:50,560 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): speak up, but I think that is my personal bias, 490 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,152 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): and I don't know, based on your experience, 491 00:28:53,152 --> 00:28:56,923 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): if that comply or it doesn't matter, always advise people like, 492 00:28:56,923 --> 00:29:01,754 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): it's okay to challenge an idea or person, but you also have to look at the forum. 493 00:29:01,754 --> 00:29:03,286 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): You know, if it's a 300... 494 00:29:03,526 --> 00:29:06,710 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): people, teams meeting at the end of a sprint 495 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:10,884 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): review, you know, you speaking up or questioning may sound 496 00:29:10,884 --> 00:29:14,916 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): very different, but if it's like a one-on-one or a small 497 00:29:14,916 --> 00:29:20,646 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): group, so I always advise people to like, hey, a good question can sound very... 498 00:29:22,566 --> 00:29:26,552 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): destructive in the different forums. So like, do you have any recommendation? 499 00:29:26,552 --> 00:29:28,494 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Like, I always recommend start with a 500 00:29:28,494 --> 00:29:32,582 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): one-on-one or small group before you build up, but is it me being too cautious? 501 00:29:32,582 --> 00:29:34,166 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Like, what's your take on that? 502 00:29:36,166 --> 00:29:39,234 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So the delivery matters a lot, but yes, also the forum. 503 00:29:39,234 --> 00:29:42,467 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Like we are social creatures, right? Our reputation. Yeah, 504 00:29:41,926 --> 00:29:43,846 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): I know, but those are, yes. 505 00:29:42,467 --> 00:29:45,206 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): the threats to our reputation, perceived threats. 506 00:29:45,206 --> 00:29:48,383 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Perception is everything. There's only perception, right? 507 00:29:48,006 --> 00:29:49,526 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah, yeah. 508 00:29:48,383 --> 00:29:52,657 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): So that matters. The forum matters. I think I mentioned this in the last talk 509 00:29:52,657 --> 00:29:56,930 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that one of my favorite approaches in order to be able to challenge something 510 00:29:56,930 --> 00:29:59,943 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): that, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with me 511 00:29:59,686 --> 00:29:59,926 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Who? 512 00:29:59,943 --> 00:30:00,326 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): really. 513 00:30:00,646 --> 00:30:05,277 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): is to go talk to people who it is their thing to have something to do with this 514 00:30:05,277 --> 00:30:08,809 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and get their allegiance beforehand, make sure I understand, 515 00:30:08,809 --> 00:30:13,208 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): but also literally rope them in. Now it's not Steven. Now it's Steven plus, 516 00:30:12,046 --> 00:30:12,406 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Teri. 517 00:30:13,208 --> 00:30:16,103 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you know, the actual people who should care about 518 00:30:16,103 --> 00:30:19,286 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): this and bringing them to bear on the problem. And now 519 00:30:20,086 --> 00:30:23,586 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You cannot be written off. It's really not just a you thing. 520 00:30:23,586 --> 00:30:28,003 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): That is an easy approach that takes a little less individual risk and causes 521 00:30:28,003 --> 00:30:28,806 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): less problems. 522 00:30:29,366 --> 00:30:32,661 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah, true, true. I was less concerned about the people 523 00:30:32,661 --> 00:30:35,956 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): asking the question. It's more the person receiving the 524 00:30:35,956 --> 00:30:40,545 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): question may feel more attacked if... No, it's just I think the forum kind of 525 00:30:37,686 --> 00:30:39,926 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): how not to feel attacked, is that what you're asking for? 526 00:30:40,545 --> 00:30:45,134 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): change people receive your question. You know, if I ask you a question about, 527 00:30:45,134 --> 00:30:47,782 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): hey, I don't think we're going to make money 528 00:30:47,782 --> 00:30:51,606 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): on that product at the coffee machine versus a one-on-one versus 529 00:30:52,326 --> 00:30:56,211 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): A team meeting with 300 people, people tend to react differently to the 530 00:30:56,211 --> 00:30:56,966 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): same question. 531 00:30:57,486 --> 00:31:00,299 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Yeah, the social cost is much higher to getting 532 00:30:59,686 --> 00:31:00,246 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah, I am. 533 00:31:00,299 --> 00:31:04,693 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it right. We all act differently in those. The easiest thing I can say is, 534 00:31:04,693 --> 00:31:08,911 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): it's all culture. Every time, we're all casting a vote with our actions 535 00:31:08,911 --> 00:31:12,192 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): all the time. So if people always react poorly in these 536 00:31:10,366 --> 00:31:10,966 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Mhm. 537 00:31:12,192 --> 00:31:15,649 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): kinds of settings, you better believe no one's going to be 538 00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:17,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): asking hard questions anymore. 539 00:31:17,606 --> 00:31:18,406 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): To. 540 00:31:17,766 --> 00:31:20,913 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Is that what you want? Because they're still asking them. 541 00:31:20,913 --> 00:31:25,199 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): They're just asking them quietly amongst each other and to themselves in their 542 00:31:25,199 --> 00:31:28,779 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): heads. And there would still be a problem. You've just buried it. 543 00:31:27,686 --> 00:31:28,246 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): True. 544 00:31:28,779 --> 00:31:31,871 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): And that's even worse. So what you want is to, you know, 545 00:31:31,871 --> 00:31:36,048 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you don't want to make things worse by overreacting or disincentivizing that 546 00:31:36,048 --> 00:31:39,086 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): kind of behavior. It's important to look at the intent. 547 00:31:39,846 --> 00:31:43,992 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): because there is a cost. Nobody, just like standing up and trying to make 548 00:31:43,992 --> 00:31:47,354 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): something better. If it works out or it has a good outcome, 549 00:31:47,354 --> 00:31:52,060 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): you don't have to be right. It has a good, worthwhile outcome, even the discussion, 550 00:31:48,726 --> 00:31:49,326 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Mm-hmm. 551 00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:56,542 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): people will be incentivized to do the same. They will feel safe to do the same. 552 00:31:56,542 --> 00:31:58,166 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If the opposite happens, then 553 00:31:58,486 --> 00:32:01,426 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You better believe that people will not feel safe to do the same, 554 00:32:01,426 --> 00:32:02,406 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and it will get worse. 555 00:32:02,726 --> 00:32:06,106 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yes, yes. And on the compliance comment before, 556 00:32:06,106 --> 00:32:11,669 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): the guideline I normally give my team is like, as long as it's ethical, legal, 557 00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:17,232 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): and you use the money and the capacity, like it's your own money and business, 558 00:32:17,232 --> 00:32:19,766 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): like I think most people should have 559 00:32:21,286 --> 00:32:25,654 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): the room to try. I think it's, I think I'm always concerned when people 560 00:32:25,654 --> 00:32:28,809 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): tell me they want to stay in their lane, like it's, 561 00:32:28,809 --> 00:32:31,902 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): because I think people tend to restrict, you know, 562 00:32:31,902 --> 00:32:36,391 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): make their lane smaller and smaller, and then we don't add as much value. 563 00:32:36,391 --> 00:32:39,606 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): So I always advise people that, I think if you like. 564 00:32:40,246 --> 00:32:45,260 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Consider, I think, which is your point, you know, that it's your own business, 565 00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:48,941 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): your own mission, and you want to make the best decision. 566 00:32:48,941 --> 00:32:51,606 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): I think we have more leeway than we think. 567 00:32:52,966 --> 00:32:57,042 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I would agree, especially if it works out, and especially if you're thoughtful 568 00:32:56,446 --> 00:32:56,886 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah. 569 00:32:57,042 --> 00:33:01,375 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): enough and not wasteful and you can start to demonstrate that it could work, right? 570 00:33:00,246 --> 00:33:00,966 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): True, true. 571 00:33:01,375 --> 00:33:03,851 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): You know, you don't have to just bet everything 572 00:33:03,851 --> 00:33:06,998 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): immediately. Yeah, I would love to see more of that as well. 573 00:33:04,566 --> 00:33:05,046 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah. 574 00:33:06,998 --> 00:33:10,609 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): But I think honestly, you know, just defines at the quality assurance 575 00:33:10,609 --> 00:33:13,446 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): level and saying, hey guys, this ain't ready. This was 576 00:33:13,846 --> 00:33:16,768 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): How do you even know this is going to work? It's totally fine, 577 00:33:14,006 --> 00:33:14,286 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah. 578 00:33:16,768 --> 00:33:19,644 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): just between you and your four teammates. That is also great, 579 00:33:19,446 --> 00:33:20,406 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Chu. 580 00:33:19,644 --> 00:33:23,401 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): and I think we should see more of that. You don't necessarily need to go start a 581 00:33:23,401 --> 00:33:25,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): startup within Cox Auto in order to make a change. 582 00:33:26,166 --> 00:33:28,806 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Yeah, good point, good point. Thank you. 583 00:33:28,726 --> 00:33:32,246 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Yeah. Any other questions or comments? 584 00:33:38,246 --> 00:33:42,696 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Cool. I mentioned this on the last one. If you do any of this and you get 585 00:33:42,696 --> 00:33:46,063 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): positive results, please send me a message and tell me. 586 00:33:46,063 --> 00:33:49,310 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I won't share it or anything. I just, I want to know. 587 00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:54,120 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): I want to know if this worked for you. And hopefully you all found this useful. 588 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,366 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): If you found it valuable, please let me know as well. 589 00:33:58,286 --> 00:34:01,732 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Because, you know, it's hard to read a crowd with a bunch of 590 00:34:01,732 --> 00:34:06,025 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): icons. But yeah, thanks for coming. Feel free to message me if you have any 591 00:34:06,025 --> 00:34:06,646 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): follow-ups. 592 00:34:07,126 --> 00:34:08,326 Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission): Thank you so much. Take care. 593 00:34:07,366 --> 00:34:10,720 Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington): Not us, and then thank you, Steven, while the translation gets taken care of 594 00:34:09,046 --> 00:34:09,846 Recce, Rocco (CAI - North Hills): Thank you. 595 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:11,286 Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington): by some help. 596 00:34:11,526 --> 00:34:11,766 Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta): Bye.