3 See, Wake up, Remember Pt 2

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3 See, Wake up, Remember Pt 2
Source: reality/005-3-see-wake-up-remember-pt-2.mp3
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Model: scribe_v2 | Transcribed: 2026-10-10T18:06:08.759981+00:00
Machine transcript — uncorrected. Speaker labels are local to this recording and do not identify people.

[00:00:00.000] Speaker 1: [instrumental music] Reality 101 is a journal of impossible experiences from first-hand explorations into the nature of reality, what it means for all of us, and how you can experience it yourself. I'm Stephen Trumbick.

[00:00:19.320] Speaker 2: And I'm Joshua Swenson. This episode of Reality 101 is part two of See, Wake Up, Remember. We're continuing our conversation about what is real and the long, winding path from imagination to validation. This one is about how it feels to work alone for something impossible, not knowing whether you'll ever get it. But before we dive into that, we always like to start with a little check-in, so I'm just wondering how you're arriving today, Stephen.

[00:00:46.580] Speaker 1: Cool. Uh, always got something to share. This is always weird for me 'cause we're talking back in time.

[00:00:52.820] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:00:53.480] Speaker 1: I can't help but spoil, like, [laughs] some of what comes ahead because I'm, I don't stop, right? Um, so before I tell you how I am, I wanted to say that we got some feedback on the show. Now we got feedback on the show so far from, you know, regular, uh, human beings. Uh, as I was publishing I think the second episode, just hear a thought, doesn't feel like mine. Normally people don't share feedback like this, but we can do whatever we want here. So [laughs] I'm just gonna tell it to you as I experienced it. Don't know who it is. Here's the exact quote, "I would really like

[00:01:28.480] Speaker 1: for people to listen to this." And the next line is, like, "More spiritual, more cosmic." But when they say more, there's, like, a plus sign, like a conceptual, like, increase, like a chart.

[00:01:41.720] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:01:42.520] Speaker 1: Like, just include this. Like, it's good. Keep it as it is, but just, you know, work this in a little bit. Don't forget these angles and just, like, there's a, like a math equation. Like, go include these in. [laughs] Very weird. I just laughed and said, "All right, I'll see what I can do." [laughs] So if we can see if we can get some more spiritual and cosmic, whatever that means. [laughs] Um, as far as how I am, I'm having a very good day. Had a pretty profound meditation experience again today. Um, for those of you who have read my blog, the differentcompass.ink, there is an article called Dancing

[00:02:17.100] Speaker 1: Starlight Dude in Jeans. I feel like about 30% that guy right now. Uh, so it's pretty weird and very happy day, uh, but that was kind of the goal. If you don't know what I'm talking about, [laughs] you can go read it if you want to. I think we'll eventually cover it in the show. Um, so all that to say is I'm feeling real good. Um, how are you, Joshua? [laughs]

[00:02:40.820] Speaker 2: Hmm. Thanks for sharing. I love hearing the, uh, uh, astral feedback. [laughs]

[00:02:46.300] Speaker 1: I thought it was hilarious.

[00:02:47.020] Speaker 2: [laughs] Uh, plus cosmic, plus spiritual. Okay, I'm gonna write that down. Hmm. Check, check. All right. I feel like I was doing pretty cosmic, pretty spiritual in the last few episodes, so.

[00:02:56.520] Speaker 1: It seemed like it, but it's all relative.

[00:02:58.000] Speaker 2: I gotta get more, more cosmic and spiritual. [clears throat] But yeah, um, I'm also feeling pretty great today, and, um, just, uh, I've got a filmmaking project that I'm working on, and so when I'm in the flow with something like that, I always just... It's just, it feels really great. I'm excited to wake up. I'm excited to go to work. Um, yeah, so that's cool. And I wanted to share an experience I had, what was it, last night, uh, meditation. And normally my big meditation experiences happen in the middle of the night, 3:00 AM or so,

[00:03:33.320] Speaker 2: but this one came through, uh, in my evening meditation. Uh, I've been doing, um... I've been using binaural beats, uh, and meditation music focused on different chakras to help me anchor my awareness, uh, and so I started with the meditation of, uh, in my solar plexus 'cause I was feeling a little anxiety, uh, in that space. Um, resolved that energy, and then I shifted to a throat awareness, um, [clears throat] throat resonance, uh, music, and then

[00:04:07.980] Speaker 2: shifted to a, um, third eye opening, s- um, music, and this was binaural beats, which is, like, different, um, frequencies playing in different, in either ear, which is supposed to help calibrate and sync your hemispheres. Um, [clears throat] and this one, um, yeah, I was just feeling opening, uh, in the space in my, uh, in my head. [laughs] I have a long history with, uh, becoming aware with how I'm holding tension in my body and, um,

[00:04:42.920] Speaker 2: energy and emotion and how they come through and feeling deeply into those spaces. And then something started happening in... I started getting this, like, clicking sound coming through, and it was like, it felt like it was coming from inside my head, almost as if, like, there was, my sinus was kind of, like, popping open or, like, there was-

[00:05:04.320] Speaker 1: So like a physical clicking sound?

[00:05:05.680] Speaker 2: It, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:06.720] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:07.860] Speaker 2: [clears throat] And, um, I had recently watched the trailer for the Steven Spielberg movie coming out, Disclosure Day, which I am very excited to see. And, uh, there's one scene in that movie where a news anchor, uh, it seems like her voice gets taken over, and there's this, like, kind of haunting clicking noise that comes through. And so I w- when I saw that, I was like, "Oh..." Uh, a- and then the, the movie itself, it seems to be associated with the grays 'cause at, at some point there's a image of a, um, a

[00:05:42.760] Speaker 2: moose, and the moose is, like, leaning over one of the characters, and then its nose shifts into the face of a, a gray. So you're like, "Oh, this is m- this is, these are the aliens in this movie. These are grays." Um, and I, I thought, you know, I'm aware that a lot of these beings, um, appear to tel- telepathically communicate with people, and, um- Uh, so I was like-- When I saw the trailer, I was like skeptical. Like, "That's not what they sound like when they telepathically communicate, probably." But then I get this clicking noise in my head, and I'm like, "Oh, shit. It's the

[00:06:17.764] Speaker 2: Grays." [laughs]

[00:06:19.844] Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I don't have any experience with this-

[00:06:22.544] Speaker 2: No

[00:06:22.544] Speaker 1: ... this part of your cosmic drama. [laughs]

[00:06:24.124] Speaker 2: And then, and then, um, so I was like, "Okay. Uh, well, let me see." And, um, I've had some experiences in attempting to reach out, uh, with these beings in the past and feeling as if they were reaching to me. Um, and so I imagine what if I'm sitting in the presence of one of these beings, you know, as if like I'm meditating before, um, a Gray sitting, you know, on my bench here with me, and my whole body lights up with

[00:06:58.984] Speaker 2: this pinging sensation. So it felt like, you know, confirmation. It kind of feels like, you know, being in the presence of a predator. Um, like imagine-

[00:07:08.984] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:07:09.004] Speaker 2: ... swimming with a shark or a whale or something like that. You know, just human-- Modern-day humans don't get the opportunity to, uh, interact with anything that's more intimidating than we are [chuckles] on a daily basis.

[00:07:23.104] Speaker 1: But not necessarily threatening. To clear. I mean, I don't wanna put words in your mouth. You tell me.

[00:07:27.624] Speaker 2: Right. Uh, there's a feeling of... I'm, I'm, I'm like-- I-- If, if one of these beings show up, showed up in my room right now, I feel like I would be-

[00:07:36.644] Speaker 1: Well-

[00:07:36.764] Speaker 2: ... very intimidated. I, I would be-

[00:07:38.364] Speaker 1: It's a little different.

[00:07:38.964] Speaker 2: Yeah. The-- But like imagining physically being in the presence of one of these beings. Um-

[00:07:45.244] Speaker 1: Uh, I like to call it like a, like a pressure wave. Like for me-

[00:07:49.964] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:07:49.984] Speaker 1: ... it's like something is like pushing on me, like to the point where almost like, yeah, adrenal response, where you feel like your-

[00:07:56.264] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:07:56.344] Speaker 1: ... brain is being shut down and you're, you go into fight or flight.

[00:07:58.884] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:07:59.264] Speaker 1: It can feel like a pressure wave coming at you, and it's like it's hard to like stay conscious in, in the midst of that.

[00:08:06.064] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:08:06.544] Speaker 1: I've had that in dream and liminal experiences, but not physically. I've never had a physical close encounter.

[00:08:13.744] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, that was... Yeah.

[00:08:19.784] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:19.864] Speaker 2: That was kind of my response, you know? I, I think, uh, I've sat through numerous experiences with these beings, uh, or like with like imagining presence of them and then like kind of getting these pings. Um, and I'm like always like, it feels as if I'm communicating or as if I'm in the presence of them. Um, yeah. So-

[00:08:41.084] Speaker 1: Just like we talked about-

[00:08:41.164] Speaker 2: ... that's what came through-

[00:08:41.644] Speaker 1: ... last time

[00:08:42.484] Speaker 2: ... my meditation. [laughs]

[00:08:44.384] Speaker 1: 'Cause your med- the meditation?

[00:08:46.504] Speaker 2: No, that's what through-- came through in my meditation.

[00:08:48.244] Speaker 1: Oh.

[00:08:48.284] Speaker 2: And, and then it was like it was, uh, there was a kind of like conversation I felt like I was having as I was-

[00:08:54.624] Speaker 1: Mm

[00:08:56.304] Speaker 2: ... um, as I was imagining this presence. So it's like, is this happening in imagination, or is this happening in reality? Or is there [laughs] some gray area? Who knows? Yeah. [laughs] That's kind of the point, right? Why we're talking. [laughs]

[00:09:10.764] Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember what we talked about. I mean, you literally brought it up, like what we talked about last time. You have to hold all of this stuff in this like maybe sort of space where, yeah, you got strong validation, but you have to hold lightly as to why. Were you being encouraged because you took seriously that perhaps there could be another being here that isn't physical, and that is why you're being encouraged?

[00:09:31.344] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:09:31.384] Speaker 1: Or is it literal, in the sense that it's direct? No, literally this exact species of entity you think is here. Or is it literally just praise for even having considered that?

[00:09:41.604] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:09:41.784] Speaker 1: Or maybe it could be any of those or something else, right?

[00:09:45.964] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:09:46.124] Speaker 1: It could be something else entirely.

[00:09:48.164] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:09:48.464] Speaker 1: Uh, I would take seriously what you felt-

[00:09:51.284] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:09:51.344] Speaker 1: ... without holding too t- tightly onto any one interpretation-

[00:09:55.184] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:09:55.424] Speaker 1: ... until, you know, it sort of comes out eventually. It comes out in the wash. You eventually-- There's a through line. There's a pattern. Then eventually you're like, "Okay, these other narratives can fall away." It wasn't literally-

[00:10:04.804] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:10:04.824] Speaker 1: ... a gray alien or, you know, maybe it was. I don't know. Like the other things will fall away over time if you take it seriously.

[00:10:10.464] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:10:10.684] Speaker 1: Um, you'll get these corrections in iteratively. So sounds like progress to me.

[00:10:17.484] Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, yeah. I have the perception that we are living in a time when some kind of disclosure or contact is approaching. Um, and with, uh, with something like this movie and Steven Spielberg, you know, publicly coming out and saying, um, you know, he believes this phenomena is, the phenomena is real, that, uh, that creates a doorway for the phenomena to enter more broadly into public consciousness, uh, which then creates the opportunity for more of these experiences and more contact to start happening. Just as

[00:10:52.464] Speaker 2: when Whitley Strieber in the '80s published his book Communion, and all these people started remembering their own contact experiences, um, and flooding the gates of like, you know, just opened the floodgates. Um, so I feel like these, the Grays are particularly like kind of creepy looking, [laughs] you know? Or just like my perception and culturally, like my, you know, upbringing and everything, like, uh, they're alien. You know? They're just unknown.

[00:11:21.604] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:11:21.684] Speaker 2: Um, so there's like a, there's a terror like associated with encountering the unknown. You know?

[00:11:26.224] Speaker 1: It's a straight-up biological-

[00:11:28.104] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:11:28.204] Speaker 1: ... reaction.

[00:11:29.324] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:11:29.424] Speaker 1: There's a number of like-

[00:11:29.924] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly

[00:11:30.584] Speaker 1: ... in the lore, there's a number of species that fall into an uncanny valley-

[00:11:33.784] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:11:33.864] Speaker 1: ... just biologically for humans for whatever reason, and they are well aware of that. [laughs]

[00:11:39.564] Speaker 2: Mm. [laughs]

[00:11:40.164] Speaker 1: They know that. For good or bad, right? They're, they're well aware of that.

[00:11:44.004] Speaker 2: Yeah. And then the, the punchline of this, uh, meditation, though, was, uh, I lifted my-- The next time this clicking happened, I was like, "Oh, it's coming again." So I thought another transmission was coming through. [laughs] I'm just sitting with the possibility that this is happening, right?

[00:11:58.404] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:11:58.884] Speaker 2: Uh, and then I lift my earphone. I'm like, "Oh, it's actually coming from the music," which is like-

[00:12:03.324] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:12:03.404] Speaker 2: ... I never heard music that has this kind of like clicking that makes it feel like it's strobing across your forehead. It was pretty, pretty cool. Um, but yeah, it was like, okay, I guess my, uh... But I still had this, like, interesting, like, heightened, um, physiological experience, uh, just in, like, imagining that that was what was happening.

[00:12:25.952] Speaker 1: Resist the urge to assume that magic only comes through specific channels.

[00:12:31.532] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:12:32.092] Speaker 1: Nothing is off limits. I have had synchronicities happen to me in video games.

[00:12:35.592] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:12:36.172] Speaker 1: Nothing is off limits. Like, it's-

[00:12:38.492] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:12:38.532] Speaker 1: ... it's all reality, man. It's, you think it's any harder to, like, put a thought in your head as it is to, like, change, like, what card you draw in a video game, like a card game? [laughs] I'm like, no, it's not any harder. Like, there's, nothing is off limits. So don't assume that just bec- ah, it came through a physical channel, therefore it was all nothing. Like-

[00:12:57.032] Speaker 2: Hmm

[00:12:57.772] Speaker 1: ... there's that balance between delusion and, like, skepticism. Like, is there, expect eventual accountability, but don't assume 'cause it comes through an expected channel that it was nothing. Just saying. Um, you don't need to over-index on it, but I have found that to be true as well. That the even more traditional, like, means, like, oh, it has a known source. Well, that means it has no meaning now? Like, you've... Before, this meant something to you, but now that you realize it came from an, oh, I just-

[00:13:25.912] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:13:25.912] Speaker 1: ... I know what that was. It's explainable now.

[00:13:28.352] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:13:28.412] Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it didn't still have the same message for you, like, hey, pay attention, or hey, focus on this. [laughs]

[00:13:33.572] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:13:33.972] Speaker 1: You should keep the message even if the source ended up being verifiable. Something can be two things at the same time.

[00:13:40.732] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:13:40.932] Speaker 1: Gets complicated.

[00:13:42.552] Speaker 2: No, it was a very real experience for me. And, um-

[00:13:44.732] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:13:44.852] Speaker 2: ... uh, I want to make myself ready to sit in the presence of these beings, you know? I want to live in such a way that I am prepared, and that was the conversation that was happening in my mind. I was like, "I'm ready to make contact. Oh, I'm want to be ready or make contact. Prepare me to make contact, please." Like, [laughs] this kind of like-

[00:14:04.292] Speaker 1: Yep.

[00:14:05.312] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:14:05.452] Speaker 1: Yeah. You just got a little poke. Let's see.

[00:14:08.192] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:08.232] Speaker 1: Does he spazz out and pee his pants?

[00:14:10.912] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:14:11.452] Speaker 1: Uh, well, it seems like he did okay. So awesome, man.

[00:14:14.672] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:14:15.252] Speaker 1: I look forward to hearing whatever happens next. Sounds like it's good.

[00:14:18.932] Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm excited to see the movie too.

[00:14:20.672] Speaker 1: [laughs] That-

[00:14:21.172] Speaker 2: Yeah. With that, you know, preamble aside-

[00:14:24.192] Speaker 1: Sure

[00:14:25.372] Speaker 2: ... um, let's dive in. So we're picking up where we left off. Um, Steven was sharing about synchronicities he had, and then a, uh, conversation with this soul mother being. Um, correct me if I'm, if I'm misremembering, but that's, I believe that's where we left off in-

[00:14:43.932] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:14:44.012] Speaker 2: ... in the story, part one.

[00:14:46.032] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. So, sorry, I heard a noise in my room. It's weird. Whatever. Yes. Uh, so she has a name. Um, a lot of people end up having names. You get them way later. Uh, but just call her Mother for this. You know, I have a mom, [laughs] a human mom, so it's a little confusing. But in typical telepathy pass- fashion, you always know which one you're referring to. In the same way that if you're looking at somebody with body language, even if there's two Davids in the room, [laughs] it's the David you're looking at that you're talking to. Um,

[00:15:21.772] Speaker 1: so wrapping up that experience, and I'm coming off a high, right? It's, things are awesome, and, um, we're gonna continue talking about this one narrative arc that we're carving through, like, four months. I go back to work, right? And so it's just after the new year now, and I'm all amped up. Like, I know, like, I feel like I'm just, like, buzzing with, like, energy. Like, I, I have, [laughs] I've been given this, like, golden tome of, like, here's, like, how consciousness interacts with reality on a low level. I'm like,

[00:15:58.112] Speaker 1: I can't stop thinking about it. Like, [laughs] I have some family beyond this. And, like, it feels very exciting, right? I'm beginning to see, like, benefits to what before was like, I don't know, like, spiritual chaos. Like, it was noise. Like, a lot of the time, I, it was what I called sticking my finger in the spiritual wall outlet. It's like, "Ugh, stuff is happening." [laughs] It doesn't make any sense. Um, but now it's like, "Oh, okay, this is cool." Like, now I'm getting utility and, like, direct information and, like, conversation and, like, good feelings. Oh, a family. [laughs] Oh, this

[00:16:33.112] Speaker 1: is cool. Uh, life beyond death. [laughs] I'm, I'm starting to get on board for this. Um, and then I go back to work. Uh, so I work a corporate job, which has been good to me. Uh, but it's corporate America, you know? It's tough. This is a really hard contrast.

[00:16:49.332] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:16:49.532] Speaker 1: Um, I am not feeling it. And I start to slip into a depression. Not only do I start to slip into a depression, but the kinds of experiences, I am, like, frantically clamoring, like, trying to get this kind of experience back, whether it is, like, direct communication or, like, in those liminal states or meditative states. I'm trying to either make contact or just get any impression. I'm trying to make anything happen, right? Whether even it's just a vivid dream or something, because I've had a lot of things happening to me at this point. It's not just contact with these people. It's all kinds of

[00:17:24.572] Speaker 1: incredible effects. Those stop. [laughs] I am Steven. I'm straight Steven. That good feeling is gone, and I panic. And I'm back at work, and I am completely depressed by my surroundings. I'm, like, looking at the wall like, "You gotta be kidding me." [laughs] Like, this can't be it. There's no way. There's no way. I got Matrix blue pilled, even though I want the red pill. And-

[00:17:53.712] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:17:53.912] Speaker 1: ... turns out the way it works is you don't get to forget. [laughs] You still know the Matrix. You just have to live in it now. I'm like, "Wait, what? No, this can't be right." [laughs] It's surely not. Um, it keeps happening. And, but it's not all, like, depression and, like- Freaking out, trying to recapture this. It's like the harder I squeeze, like, the more it leaves me. I feel like the magic has left me. But at the same time, very maddeningly, I'm back at work, but I can't do my job.

[00:18:29.448] Speaker 1: Like, I can't log in. My password has changed or something's wrong. And then my computer, like, straight up, like, bricks. Like, I can't use it. And I'm trying to use an alternative device, which has already been loaded up with, like, the proprietary software to be able to authenticate. It doesn't work. Nothing works. All the backups, everything. No one can help. IT is gone, even though they're supposed to be there. It's this storm of hilarious things. So I've come back and, like, [sniffs] nothing is working. [laughs] Like, I can't get in no matter what

[00:19:04.468] Speaker 1: I do. Like, I am beating down doors. Like, it's been, like, days, and all I can do is sit here in my office, right? Like, [laughs] I can't actually program. I'm a software engineer. I can't, [laughs] I can't actually do my job. And it's-- The number of things that go wrong is just comical. I'm sitting on, like, corporate tech support, and I get the most hilarious person I've ever talked to in tech support. This man is reading from a script at, like... Some people listen to, like, podcasts and books at two times speed. This guy is at one quarter speed. He is reading so slowly that I have to

[00:19:39.428] Speaker 1: mute myself because I am laughing in tears. Like, this can't be real. Like, this, "Excuse me, sir. Could you please..." And he is so bored, and he-- [laughs] I have to call him multiple times. And, like, I'm losing my mind at this point. I'm like, "This can't be real." Like, I literally cannot work. Like, I'm here, but I'm not here. Like, I can't actually do my job. And at some point, I just surrender. I'm like, "It's been four or five days now." You know, it's just after the holidays or whatever, so, like, everything's warming up. People are still off,

[00:20:14.388] Speaker 1: and, like, it's fine. But I'm-- At some point, I get the sign. Like, "Cool, man. I think I'm supposed to sit with this, and I'm supposed to just, like, you know, integrate a little bit." I'm not going to be allowed to jump right back into my life as it was. I can't go right back to being regular Steven, doing my job, and pretending like, you know, corporate software development is, like, the only purpose of my life. And this didn't just happen to me. This set of incredible things didn't just happen to me. It's like I'm being forced to be given space to think about, you know, what this means and who I wanna be and what I'm

[00:20:49.368] Speaker 1: gonna do with this. And so I do. Um, so I start writing an article. Um, there's an article on the blog called, I think, "33 Years in a Room With No Exit." So if you wanna know what my headspace was like, go read that one. [laughs] It's very angsty. It's F this, rage against the machine. [laughs] This is stupid. Uh, not that I'm ungrateful, but I just... This mechanism at large in society, I'm, I am so not feeling [laughs] regular corporate America suburban life. Like, this is wrong. This

[00:21:24.388] Speaker 1: is, this feels so wrong. We could be doing anything. Why the hell are we doing this? Now, I can't do anything. Like, I'm, I've just been given the awareness, and then it's gone, right? And more maddening is that I'm beginning to become depressed because I'm, like, stuck between things, right? I'm not actually, like... I'm not being allowed to return to regular life, [laughs] doing my job or getting lost in that. But also, there's, like, a vacuum on the other end too. None of these, like, supernatural or special experiences are happening. They're gone. I'm just depressed. Um, so that's the

[00:21:59.328] Speaker 1: headspace I'm in, uh, for a while, like a little over a week, a week and a half, which doesn't seem like a long time, but after something like this happens to you, you can imagine the kind of doubt and dread that sinks in. Like, I can't talk to these people. It's gone. Gone, gone. And I'm like, "What the hell?" [laughs] Like, "This can't be... There's no way. What if this never comes back?" Like, that, I'm more afraid of that than I am, like, what if I'm crazy or this isn't real? Like, that ship has sailed at this point. Like, I still have doubts as to what it means or, like, that's just the human condition. But I'm far more afraid of the possibility that

[00:22:35.167] Speaker 1: what if it was and it's just gone now? That's how I'm feeling.

[00:22:40.908] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[00:22:44.788] Speaker 1: So from there, like, what do you do about that? [laughs] That's what I'm sitting with, right? What would you do? It's not, it's not clear. Like, I'm obsessively poring over my journals. I've got so many journals. Like, what did I do to create this state? Like, I'm like a crazy person. Like, but not [laughs] because something crazy has happened to me, but because I want it back. [laughs] I want the magic back. Um, one night before my birthday, so it's been like a week and a half or so at this point since the experiences of the last, the end of the last episode. I

[00:23:19.648] Speaker 1: can't sleep. Like, I'm trying to force, like, out-of-body experiences. I take, um, [tsks] there's a supplement you can take for lucid dreaming. I can't remember what it... It starts with a G. Galantamine, I think. Um-

[00:23:30.288] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:31.228] Speaker 1: Nobody go start pounding this stuff. Like, [laughs] do your own research. Um, but, um, trying to force an out-of-body state, uh, which, you know, I'd had a few. Um, I'd been practicing that too, and it doesn't work. [laughs] Nothing happens. I end up just staying awake all night, basically all night, laying in my bed. This is two days before my birthday now. Um, I'm just, like, talking to myself. I'm, like, in this childlike state. It's so weird. Uh, I, I end up literally monologuing to myself for, like, six hours in

[00:24:06.048] Speaker 1: bed, like, not sleeping, in my head, right? I'm like, "I'll wake up my wife." And I'm just talking about all sorts of things, and at some point, I notice that this is weird. Like, I even mention to myself, "Huh, where's the other part of me, like the other half of me that usually makes me sound smart when I say stuff? Because I feel very dumb right now." [laughs] Like-

[00:24:24.068] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[00:24:24.168] Speaker 1: Just like a child. I feel like a child. I remembered I spent 20 minutes just thinking about, "I wonder if I'll ever get to pet a fox. I wonder how soft a fox is. I bet they're so soft. I really want to pet a fox." Uh, literally for 20 minutes thinking about-

[00:24:40.744] Speaker 2: Spoiler, you do get to pet a fox at some point, right? [laughs]

[00:24:45.324] Speaker 1: So the next day, my wife announces to me, "By the way, for your birthday, you're taking the day off."

[00:24:50.464] Speaker 2: Ah.

[00:24:50.584] Speaker 1: "We are going to a capybara cafe where you get to pet capybaras and other animals, and I just heard that they have a fox, and you're going to get to pet it." We have not talked about this. I hadn't told her anything about this, and I'm like, "Oh my God." [laughs] It's like, click. Hey, don't forget, you're creating your own reality, buddy. Like, this is still true. Uh, do you wanna live in a depressive state where you get to do nothing, or maybe you could make something happen? And it's just like the turnaround was so fast that I just couldn't help but laugh. My computer unlocks. I can go back to work.

[00:25:25.704] Speaker 1: I'm like, "Okay." It's like this, like, this block is gone. Um, I remember, like, desperately just being like, "I want this back. Like, I want this feeling. I'm done being depressed. I [laughs] don't wanna do it anymore. I'm done being depressed." And things start happening again, like really quickly, within hours of that.

[00:25:46.684] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[00:25:47.064] Speaker 1: Uh, I start having contact and experiences again. Um, I... The night before my birthday, I go to sleep, and I'm in a, having a dream, and m- a bunch of family members are at my childhood home, and I walk away from the party. I'm not lucid in this dream. It's just, you know, I'm just in it. And then I am in the pantry, and then I just hear a voice.

[00:26:18.044] Speaker 2: Oh.

[00:26:18.364] Speaker 1: And the voice is, it's my dad. Uh, and since most of the listeners won't know, my dad died a few years ago, and he just says, "Happy birthday, Steve." And I wake up because it shocks me. There's just, like, this electric, like, awareness. I'm rocketed into, like, awareness, like you might be from a sudden, like, nightmare, like when it scares you and knocks you out of it. I wake up because it has this different quality to it. Like, I know that it wasn't a dream. Like, it was him. It was, like, exactly the way he says it, and I wake

[00:26:53.124] Speaker 1: up, and I'm just crying [laughs] like, 'cause I knew it was him. And, um, before I had gone to sleep that night, I usually just say goodnight, you know, like, like a kid says their prayers. I just say goodnight to everybody. At this point, why not, right? [laughs] Eh, you're out there. I know you can hear me, so I'll say goodnight to everybody. That night when I said goodnight, I heard, not audio, but thought, um, but to the point that it was heard, like 12 different people say goodnight and, like, happy birthday at the same time, like all overlapping. Like, it's just noise, like uh.

[00:27:26.664] Speaker 1: [laughs] And I'm like, "Okay, that's never happened before." Normally, I just say goodnight, and it goes out into the void. [laughs] I wasn't trying to make anything happen. So, like, it's coming back to me now. It's coming back to me, and I'm coming back with a vengeance. Like, I'm motivated now. I'm s- coming out of the depression. It's amazing how you can go from, "Ah, it's all over. Nothing was real. This sucks. It's all gonna go away now," to just a little crack. You get a little crack, and a little light comes in. You're like, "Ah, I'm making this depression happen." Um,

[00:28:01.764] Speaker 1: it, it's really just, like, a continual offer. There's been a number of times when this has happened to me. It's like a... And sometimes I've gotten, like, the direct quote. I read that in my meditation journal, like, right before this. "Which life do you want to live? You're the one that's choosing. What do you want? Which one you want?" That's all this is. [laughs] Like, you're being shown a choice. There's two paths here, buddy. It's not a one-time choice between red and blue. It's like a continual one, man. Which one you want? Do you wanna be, be depressed and scared and worried and go back to this, or do you want something new, something

[00:28:36.404] Speaker 1: different? Like, it's up to you. [laughs] I want something new and different. And I'll say one more thing, and I'll, I'll pause there. I had gotten some guidance late in the year before, like December, so like a month or two before this, when I was in meditation, to wake up and remember, like, it's time. Like, very certainly, like coming down from, like, above, this, like, this pressure. It was like, "This is a very important message for you. You need to wake up

[00:29:11.724] Speaker 1: and remember. It's time to do that now." And I had been receiving the word see over and over and over again in liminal experiences and dreams all the time. And that those three words, and another one which we'll get to later if it ever becomes relevant, which I'm focused on now, getting those over and over again like a mantra. Like, this is your task. Listen, you want this. Like, you wanna know where this is going? You wanna know? [laughs] Like, here it is. Here's your task. Like you're handing, like, the portfolio. Here's your

[00:29:46.444] Speaker 1: buzzwords. You need to see. You need to wake up. You need to remember. The, um, just, like, this incredible importance, like this weight behind this, like a, a mantra that I would come to repeat over and over again, and this would become, like, the quest, right? Here's your quest, man. I mean, not the ultimate quest, but, like, here's... You wanna see where this goes? Like, take this, and take, and see where it goes. Here's your task.

[00:30:15.304] Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah, that's a lot. Um, I resonate with the, um, cycling through periods of elation and Uh, what feels like growth and expansion, and then coming back into how you describe more depressive states, more periods like that. Um, I like to think, from my own personal experience, I like to think of those periods differently. Like, I don't, I don't think I could ev- could be potent- like, um,

[00:30:51.296] Speaker 2: I don't think it would be healthy for me to be forever in the expansive state, you know? I need to cycle back into... I, I, I think the word depress-

[00:30:59.156] Speaker 1: Yeah, cancer

[00:30:59.416] Speaker 2: ... depression, personally, is, like, negative. It's actually like, um... I like to think of the yin and yang principles. So, like, the, you know, maybe the periods where, like, you're making, you know, contact experiences and going deeper in meditation or, um... That also, for me, parallels, um, productive periods in my work, and focus and clarity a lot of times. You know, there's, like, yang, um, more, like, extroverted energy and then, you know, that energy always, uh, exhausts itself and has to shift back into the more restful period, you

[00:31:34.375] Speaker 2: know? But when you've been experiencing this, like, these highs and these elated states and, uh, excitement, you know, it's like, [chuckles] I just wanna hold onto that, you know? I think the tension comes when you're, like, grasping, you know? Or at least for me. Uh, that you wanna keep in one state over another. The shifting is always difficult. Um, but yeah, it was cool to see-- cool to hear in your story how you're shifting from one to the other and, um, yeah, getting the, [chuckles] like, the, the red pill, blue pill. It's also like this, you know, we've talked about integration.

[00:32:09.436] Speaker 2: How do you integrate these big experiences into real life, you know? How do you begin to weave it more into, you know, when you're at work? Or, uh, how does your work shift, you know? How do your relationships shift once you have had these kinds of experiences?

[00:32:25.856] Speaker 1: So up until this point, like, I'd kind of forgotten about these, like, mantras, like, sort of quest lines. Like, these just, like, pointers to, like, where to go next. I sort of sto- I stopped having an internal locus of control. Like, I expected, like, to be given the next steps. And that don't, that, that don't work. I'm gonna let y'all know right now, you decide to embark on this path, you start expecting somebody else, anybody else, to tell you what to do. Yoink. It's quiet. You're gonna get nothing. [chuckles] Uh-uh. That's not how this works. You have to be- you have to decide who you

[00:33:00.856] Speaker 1: wanna be at every step. This is, this is a you thing. You're gonna be helped along to figure out who you are and learn more about the world and reality and, you know, yourself beyond this life. All these things. But it's gonna be you who's doing it. If at any point in time you start to become entitled, or you just begin to display learned helplessness, or you're just expecting handouts or somebody else to, to guide you, no. Any good teacher is gonna be like, "Stepping into the background. I'm gone now." Now you struggle until you f- remember,

[00:33:36.036] Speaker 1: "Ah, crap. I can do this." Like, I-

[00:33:38.676] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:33:38.776] Speaker 1: ... gotta dig down deep and remember like, "You know, I got this far," I'm gonna say entirely on my own, "but I made this happen. Like, I can do it again." So there's that. But then there's also trying to actually apply what I'd learned. Like, trying to see the world as, like, me. Like, I remembered what it felt like, even though I was just, like, put into, like, this simulated state. Like, I remembered what it felt like. So I'm trying to recapture that feeling. Like, I know it's true, but it's a conceptual thing. I know that I am, like, my whole reality. I remembered what it felt like.

[00:34:14.716] Speaker 1: But I don't feel like that right now. I feel like a guy sitting in an office chair in an empty office. [chuckles]

[00:34:19.756] Speaker 2: [chuckles]

[00:34:19.876] Speaker 1: I have to drive an hour and a half home now in a, in a little bit here. [chuckles] Like, that's what I felt like. So I'm trying to put these together, while at the same time, you know, I, I'm a dad. Like, I... My kids are acting up or they're fine or whatever. Like, uh, there's regular stresses. And, like, it keeps taking over and intruding. So it's just, like, this constant fight to, like, keep this real. Like, to recapture this, like, feeling. Like, it's so quiet and so easy to push into the background of human life. Um, but I, I don't want it to be that way. I want it at the foreground. I want to change.

[00:34:54.916] Speaker 1: Like, I want to see the world for what it really is. I want more awareness. I want more control. I wanna know who I am. [chuckles] What the hell does this mean? What do you want me to see? What am I waking up from?

[00:35:05.416] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:35:05.456] Speaker 1: It's maddening. Like, I know there's more, but, like, I'm... I feel the gravity of, like, culture and regular, like, human life and corporate America and suburbs and, like, busyness just, like, pulling me in over and over again. It's like I'm trying to climb up a muddy slope over and over-

[00:35:20.996] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:35:21.116] Speaker 1: ... just being pulled back down. And I know it too, and I get a bad attitude, and I get emotional. I don't, I don't wanna do it. So I'm fighting all these forces. At the same time, it's like I'm also, like, keeping my meditation habit. But I'm getting more and more serious about it. Doing more, well more than my hour sit for now. Like, I... Now I'm, like, starting to push two hours sometimes. Like, I'm serious. And I keep focusing on this mantra and setting the intention. I want these things, whatever they are. I'm trying to open to this, and I'm playing all these mini-games that you know about from, like, um, the Techniques of Transcendence course that we did.

[00:35:55.916] Speaker 1: Trying to not judge myself. I'm trying to grow as a person. I'm trying not to get-- let go of shame. I'm doing all these other things. Like, I'm trying to have even reactions to stuff. I'm... So I'm doing all these things at the same time. It's not any one thing, but I'm [chuckles] throwing the kitchen sink at this because, like, put the pedal to the metal here, man. Like, I want whatever it is I'm trying to be shown, and I'm, I'm fighting for it. And it feels like a fight. It's whiplash, up and down. And this is, like, over the span of, like, the next month or so. Um, so that's what it feels like.

[00:36:32.152] Speaker 1: Every morning, I want to wake up. I want to remember. What are you trying to show me? What am I trying to see? I sit down and I meditate. I try to remember constant- I'm constantly trying to draw myself back into this, and there's this-- I begin to notice that meditation gets me to these higher states where I feel certain that, yeah, I'm on the right path. This is working, or I'm starting to get insights. But then outside of that, in maybe like liminal states, like I get pulled back into the slog during the day. I'm getting pulled down the muddy slope, and I'm just like, I forget about it. I, you know, I'm getting drawn into whatever I'm doing. Um, I

[00:37:07.032] Speaker 1: get upset. You know, regular human life. I'm just regular Steven, and all of this goes away. I don't think about it again. It's like, there's so much whiplash, and I realize the importance of needing to like integrate this into my life. Like I need-

[00:37:20.472] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:37:20.472] Speaker 1: ... to live as if it was, this were true all the time.

[00:37:23.852] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:24.212] Speaker 1: Like, I can't-- If I really want this to change, like if I really want to live a new life and like see the reality as, as it is or unveil it, it's gotta be at the center, right? I'm still gonna be Steven and live my life and do my job and write my book and all the other stuff, right? Be a dad. But this has to be like at the center. So I start to put it at the center, and I take it very seriously. It's, seems like such a subtle thing to be like, "Oh, this is a thing I do in meditation," or maybe I, I set an intention before I go to bed, or when I f- I notice, right? Throughout the day.

[00:37:59.292] Speaker 1: But now it's like trying to invert it, trying to be like that all the time, and I, I'm trying to catch when I'm acting like I don't actually believe I am my whole reality or these amazing things are happening. There's a life beyond death. We could technically-

[00:38:13.732] Speaker 2: Hmm

[00:38:13.732] Speaker 1: ... do anything. All these things, right? I'm trying to sear those beliefs in so deep that like that is my default state. And the other way around, yeah, I'm technically typing on a keyboard right now to write some corporate software. Like, that's just the thing I'm doing right now, and we can all, we can all laugh about it, but like I still have to do it, but still-

[00:38:34.372] Speaker 2: Hmm

[00:38:34.592] Speaker 1: ... it's not who I am. And I'm trying to do that. See, wake up, remember, over and over and over again. I'm setting the intention. With a lot-- I'm sort of glossing over how, [chuckles] how desperate I feel at times. I want this so badly. And boy, do I ever start to see, wake up, and remember. [chuckles] It starts to happen. Um, so I'll pause there, see if you have anything you wanna ask before I, I tell you. But that was a long time to go without validation. Doesn't seem that long. What was this, two months maybe?

[00:39:09.852] Speaker 1: You know, I start to have some contact and like, again, like offhand experiences again. But they're not like what I experienced in the Reality 101 thing. This is, "Whoa, this is happening. I am learning a lot, and this is... I'm in another place. This is more real than where I was." That's not happening anymore, right? So it's been about a two-month span before things like that start to trickle back into my life, which is a [chuckles] really long-- It's 60 days. That's a long time to go. [chuckles] Doesn't seem like it, but I felt every one of those days.

[00:39:44.352] Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah, I like the, um, idea of mini-games- [chuckles]

[00:39:54.372] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

[00:39:54.592] Speaker 2: ... you mentioned. Um, and I like your framing of it of like, oh, I'm working on myself as like different mini-games or side quests. Um, I also, uh, in, you know, engaging with a lot of this material and having, you know, liminal state experiences myself and coming into more and more of this, um, perception that, you know, consciousness is fundamental. Um, who I really am precedes this physical form and, uh, won't finish, won't stop when it ends. Um,

[00:40:29.632] Speaker 2: out-of-body experiences, all these things, it's like these are little data points that I'm gathering, and then talking to people like you and hearing your experiences and other people who have had mind-bending experiences. We have a friend, Kate, who's just [chuckles] had quite an incredible... We should have her on at some time to tell her story.

[00:40:45.792] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:40:46.052] Speaker 2: Quite an incredible experience. That just points to the fact that like, wow, this, you know, the idea that this is a simulation, it really feels that way. Um, or it seems that way. Like the data adding up seems that way. So more and more I'm starting, trying to kind of live into that perception on a day-to-day basis and be like, all the little things that would have annoyed me are like, okay, if I was in a video game-

[00:41:10.232] Speaker 1: Hmm

[00:41:10.352] Speaker 2: ... if I was in a MMORPG, massively mult- massive multiplayer online video game, role-playing game. I used to play World of Warcraft-

[00:41:18.752] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:41:18.852] Speaker 2: ... and other games like that. So, uh, I can resonate with that. I've played a lot of video games in my life. If this was happening in a video game version, if I was in a video game now and this thing happened, this would be like a little fun side quest or mini-game. Like, you know, the kids arguing and one of them spills Cheerios all over the floor. Ooh, now it's a mini-game to pick up all the Cheerios and put them back. [chuckles] And just like trying to reframe my life and all of my experiences that, from that perception has really shifted things for me. Um, it just brings more levity. It's like this is all just like an experience.

[00:41:53.892] Speaker 2: This is all kind of like the point. It's fun, you know? It's meant to be fun and engaging and a challenge. Um, and then another, uh, thing I've been trying to sort of like live into that more, this has also come through our conversations, is to think of this body as a vehicle. Kinda like I'm sitting in this car. You know? [chuckles] I'm like, "This is my flesh suit. This is my..." [chuckles] I don't know if anyone's seen the, the show E- Evangelion. There's like these... They're like, it's like a, like giant robots that

[00:42:28.832] Speaker 2: people pilot, but the robots are actually like living giant robot, like robotic flesh robots or something. I don't know. But it's wild and really weird. Um- And I, it was formative for me watching that show, so I'm like, "This is-- I'm kinda like in a, an Evangelion suit right now," [chuckles] 'cause I'm navigating my mundane reality. And then you go, and you have these liminal state experiences, and then they confirm, yeah, um, this reality isn't base reality. [chuckles]

[00:42:57.892] Speaker 1: It is not.

[00:42:59.432] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:43:00.032] Speaker 1: So those little things that you're doing continuously, they're not just, like, a fun anecdote. Like, that is what opens you up to have these big breakthrough experiences. Doesn't seem like it. It's, it was maddening for so long. I can say that now, but at this point in time where we're talking in the story, like, I still had not, like... I didn't truly believe, like, at a low level. Like, it hadn't sunk all the way in that I made this happen. Like, uh, well, I o-opened it up enough for it to happen, right? I'm not gonna pretend I did it all alone. But the things you just described, recontextualizing how

[00:43:34.972] Speaker 1: you see life, you know, working on yourself, personal development, like, changing your perspective on what is really happening, is what opens up the possibility for these breakthrough moments which give you more insight, and awareness, and control, and validation to do it again. Like, that's how it becomes exponential. But it always starts so small. It always starts so small. Um, I've got a quote in one of these journals, again from mother. It's like, in meditation, it's like, I don't get a lot of verbal communication from her

[00:44:09.392] Speaker 1: specifically. Hands off. [chuckles] This is your life. [chuckles] You do it. But sometimes, and this one time I did, and I'll look up the quote for another episode, uh, when we talk more about this topic. But she was saying, "Just keep going." Like, almost like, you know, like your child is distraught. Like, [chuckles] "Sorry you're struggling," but it always feels like imagination. It always starts in imagination. That's how it starts. Like, you have to believe it first, and it starts so small, but you just have to, like, let it

[00:44:44.472] Speaker 1: grow. Like, I know it starts feeling im-imaginary, but that's how it always happens. Like, you have to, like, let that happen in order to get to a point where it's not just imaginary. It's happening in the rest of your life, too. But you'll, basically, you're never gonna get there if you keep stomping on it. You're gonna stay where you are. And so it's this, these little games that we play to open ourselves up. Constantly meditating, saying these mantras over and over again. That's great, but if you can work it into the rest of your life, that is what, like, shifts how you see things. It doesn't immediately show up in your

[00:45:19.352] Speaker 1: life. Like, your life gets better. Personal development is great, and you get those benefits, but it is doing something unseen. It is opening up some aperture and potential that you can't see.

[00:45:31.852] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:31.872] Speaker 1: And it takes a while. So I start to get some breakthrough experiences. I wanna remember, [chuckles] and I wanna wake up. And I start to. So I start to go through experiences where I wake up in profound states, and I realize that there is, like, more to me specifically. Uh, to give you a short example, I'd had previews of these experiences before. In earlier, in one of my depressive states in, like, January, 'cause we're now in late February in the timeline, you know, just sort of beating myself up. I don't know what

[00:46:06.912] Speaker 1: I was saying. Eh, I'm never gonna do this. This sucks. I don't know. [chuckles] Whatever, right? And I'd been doing it for a little while. It was supposed to be a meditation, ended up just being a wine fest. About halfway through one of my thoughts, I hear my own voice. Like, hear it. [chuckles] You haven't lived until you hear, heard yourself talk to you. And, like, ball up my thought, like the one I was abo- trying to think, like crumble up a piece of paper, and throw it away. Like, the thought is gone. Like, I'm trying to form it, and it's, "Look, uh, I can't." It's just gone. And they tell me, "You

[00:46:41.892] Speaker 1: are not useless. [chuckles] Stop it." [chuckles] I'm like, "But it's my own voice." And, like, there's no response after that. I'm like, "What the hell?" [chuckles] So a lot of people talked about having a higher self and, like, you know there's more of you outside of this place, right? It doesn't all fit in your human existence. You can call it heaven, you can call it the afterlife, you can call it other dimensions. I don't care. Call it outside the simulation. Whatever your worldview is, there's more of you than you are aware of here, right? And it's doing stuff. For some of us, I, I think it's asleep. One day in February, late February, I wake up as

[00:47:16.792] Speaker 1: this higher self, like, completely embodied in my l- current existence. That day is far too profound and weird to describe here. You're familiar with the experience, I think. It's on my blog. That is the dancing starlight dude in jeans experience. I'm not going to go into it in detail here, only that I'd received validation, oh, there is definitely more of me, and I, [chuckles] I am him right now in my life. I didn't have his memories, but I'm like, "Whoa. Okay. This is weird." And then a few days later, I have another experience

[00:47:51.472] Speaker 1: where I feel like I am, like, a field of awareness from a single point. I, I don't have any of, like, my memories. I wake up just like, "Whoa." [chuckles] And I am completely unattached from my life. It's, uh, like I'm being shown another perspective of self. Like, I am, like, the field of consciousness from the point of Steven. I'm no longer Steven. It's almost, like, outside my own soul. It's very weird. It's a strange experience. I think, uh, it's, these are, like, Atman and Brahman experiences, because I get a, a follow-up experience right after that where I am, like, this ray of light. This is after

[00:48:26.492] Speaker 1: I wake up. I've, I'm feeling these things. Like, these are happening to me. I'm a ray of light that's, like, being shined through a bunch of, like, fractal prisms, and every time it goes through the prism is like, this is, like, a conscious entity. It's like a part of myself, and that at the end of the line where the light is shining, hitting, it's like- Where I am now. Like, but it's already gone through all these other changes, and like, but I'm like all the light as well. So if you take the first experience, that's like me completely unfiltered, and then you shine it through all these [chuckles] lenses, and then you get me where I am here.

[00:49:02.652] Speaker 1: Really weird, really weird experiences, but they all feel like me. At no point in time do they feel like someone else. And I feel like I'm being shown, like, different perspectives of like these are all true. Like, you're definitely not just this guy in this body. That is happening. But also check this out, and check this out, [chuckles] and check this out.

[00:49:22.172] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:22.812] Speaker 1: These are also true, and they all felt like me. And so these keep me motivated, and I know that stuff is happening. But it's not easy. I still become depressive. After each of these experiences, it's like [chuckles] you know, there's a comedown. I can't repeat it, or I can't do it on purpose. So many of these things are just happening to me, and it's very frustrating. I'm getting insights, and lots of incredible things are happening, which we'll cover in many other episodes. But I never lose the plot of this, like, main thread. I want reality 102. I wanna know what the

[00:49:57.732] Speaker 1: heck is going on here. I wanna know who I really am. What's going on? What do you mean see? What am I supposed to see? What am I waking up from? Who am I? What am I remembering? [chuckles] I never lose this plot, so I'm starting to get, like, little pieces. They don't fit together. There's no cohesiveness. There's no connection between all these experiences. But I mention these only because I'm getting results now. But they're like piecemeal, like a dart. There's no pattern. I can't find a, a narrative through it all to make sense of it. I don't understand what it means. So I'll pause there before we get to, you know, at

[00:50:32.712] Speaker 1: least a partial reveal. [chuckles] 'Cause it works.

[00:50:46.152] Speaker 2: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, I'm wondering if all of these different, uh, experiences are continuously, like, having their own experience. Are they aware of you? Uh, are they also seeking integration? Like, you know, the, these are all different aspects of self, experiences that unfold within the broader reality, uh, consciousness landscape. Uh, is there a plane where, you know, we're all pinpricks of

[00:51:21.072] Speaker 2: light, or we're all [chuckles] inhabiting our higher self and interacting in that way, uh, and these are all happening simultaneously on different levels? There's a lot to grok here. [laughs] Yeah.

[00:51:36.752] Speaker 1: I think we're gonna gloss over that part, because we've got so many damn selves. Like I, I've started to make a list of all the, like, valid other perspectives that I've felt like myself-

[00:51:47.792] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:51:47.792] Speaker 1: ... but not like Steven, and it's a growing list. And it's so bizarre, because every time you never feel like, you know, you've been taken over or you're somebody else now. Like, it always feels like you, and it almost always feels like a superset of you. Like-

[00:52:01.312] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:52:01.332] Speaker 1: ... oh yeah, I still have my memories and all that. Like, I get to keep all that. But also I'm all this, this other thing going on. So I mention those only to say that I'm beginning to remember, right? There's multiple, like, threads here. I'm beginning to remember, like, parts of, like, who I am outside of this, like, life. Um, it feels like remembering, because it feels familiar. And hopefully, you know, we'll do a whole episode on, like, higher selves and alternate selves. But I'd just offer the reassurance that it always feels like you. That's the most surprising thing, 'cause I often feared this experience of, like,

[00:52:36.112] Speaker 1: opening up, and like, I didn't like having other selves or other parts of selves. Like, I don't like the idea that there's other parts of me outside my awareness, [chuckles] conscious awareness. But every time, like, when I get the direct experience, and it's no longer-

[00:52:50.972] Speaker 2: Oh, no, you're-- I was, I was just doing that gesture to kind of like imagine what you're, what you're ex- explaining. So it's like you're a small self-

[00:52:58.152] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:52:58.272] Speaker 2: ... your ego-based self. But then when you have these experiences, it's kind of like concentric circles or like a widening frame. So it's not like you are-- Like your small, your small self is still there, but you're just like, "Oh, this is actually who I am." I mean, I've had these experiences numerous times in psychedelic journeys.

[00:53:16.272] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:16.612] Speaker 2: It'd always be like this ex- uh, it felt-- I began to describe it as like, uh, my, my exper- my experiences are very different from yours, but it felt like I was s- unzipping my skin and, like, taking off my clothes and being like, "Oh, this is who I really am." Kind of getting back in touch with this, like, essence. Um, and then, you know, the journey ends, and I congeal back into, uh, my small self, and there's a kind of forgetting [chuckles] and getting lost like you've described, you know-

[00:53:46.712] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

[00:53:46.712] Speaker 2: ... these depressive periods. Um, and then I'm just like, "Oh." Had to have an experience again. It's like, "Oh yeah, why do I keep forgetting? Why do I keep forgetting? Why do I keep forgetting?" Yeah. Anyways, just, uh, trying to make sense of this. But it's also interesting, like you're sort of like there's all these different angles, like, uh, perceiving yourself from or, like, versions of yourself through. Yeah.

[00:54:14.332] Speaker 1: Yeah. So all of that is crazy. It feels good. Um, but I have never lost, like, the main thread here. I wanna recapture that state that I had at the end of Reality 101. Why do I not feel like I have, like, power and awareness? I'm going through all this stuff, but it just feels piecemeal. When do I get to feel like that? Like, when do I get to know? Like, what's on the other side of this? Like, punching this stupid veil. Like, what is this crap? I keep getting little pinpricks, like a little, little light coming through. Um, so one day, uh, what is this? April 8th now. This is a long time.

[00:54:49.432] Speaker 1: It's been four- Almost four and a half months since that experience. It's been a slog. It's been amazing, up and down, a lot of whiplash. And I sit down for a meditation. And this entire experience is also documented on the blog. This one is called See. But I'll count enough of it here so that we can converse. I sit down for a meditation, which is otherwise, honestly, a pretty crappy meditation. It ends up being an hour of just like a wine fest. And I had, and I started doing this recently, but I remember praying, which is very unusual for me.

[00:55:24.668] Speaker 1: So I'm former atheist. Now I'm anti-organized religion. I don't know what you call it. I know. I know there's stuff out there. I mean, look at the sign off of the show. Everything loves you. Like that's, if that's not spiritual and cosmic, I don't know what is. So there we go. We worked it in. But I remember praying. Like, come on. Give this to me. Like, I've been working so hard here. Like, come on. Give me something. And I start

[00:55:59.648] Speaker 1: seeing these visuals. Like, it's the end of an hour meditation. I'm stone cold sober, man. This is like, I may as well not have meditated, right? It's just a wine fest in the closet. Plus, you know, a little sincere praying. And I start to see some visuals. This is not completely unusual for me. Sometimes I get like little visuals. I call it draw sight. It's just images. We'll talk about it when we get to mindsight and other kinds of stuff later on. I see some symbols like, oh, that's cool. And then they start to get really vivid. So I am seeing these. These are in the visual field. I'm sitting in my walk-in closet. It's dark,

[00:56:34.748] Speaker 1: but I can see them whether my eyes are open or closed. They're being drawn into my visual field. And like, oh, that's cool. And then they get rainbow colored and extremely vivid. I'm like, okay, this is pretty weird because normally I got to be in a really altered state to get visuals like this. This is, it's pretty weird to have this happen to you when you're just in a regular state. I'm a little whiny. I'm in a bad mood. And like, I'm seeing like all these geometric shapes, like rainbow colored bubble wrap. I'm zooming through planes and like tesseracts, all these crazy shapes and like spirals

[00:57:09.748] Speaker 1: and just insane visuals. Like off the charts music visualization, like rainbow visuals. Like, whoa. And this is so wild that I'm watching this for like an hour and a half, right? So I'm in the closet for almost three hours at this point. Like, because it's amazing. Like, whoa. But it's totally lost on me, man. I don't know what the heck is happening. I'm watching this zooming and going across a black hole event horizon. There's like all these cones coming out and like, whoa. And I just know, I have this profound sense that every single one of these impressions means something.

[00:57:44.588] Speaker 1: They're like, it's like sacred geometry. Like it all is like describing some beautiful, amazing truth about the universe. If I could record this, I could sell it for 10 grand because like, I just know that math nerds out there would be like, whoa. Just like pouring over this. It's just going down the drain for me because it's totally wasted on me. I'm like, this is some cool fireworks. I know it means something. Don't know what. And all kinds of crazy stuff. I remember at one point I felt I was sitting in a cave. I'm sitting in my closet. And so I'm watching this happen. And there's just like this tidal, like this gush of like

[00:58:20.208] Speaker 1: rainbow colored liquid that comes in through the cave, like through the mouth of the cave. And I'm in the cave. And then it hits me. As it washes over me, I just like feel this like electric like surge of power. Like it's all information. Every single one of these little particles is just like hyper dense information. I'm like, whoa. So at some point I'm like, well, this is cool, but I'm pretty darn tired and I'm getting hungry. So I'm going to go make a sandwich. So I go make a sandwich. And like the visuals just kind of fade out, right? You stop paying attention to it.

[00:58:55.208] Speaker 1: And it's like, all right, those are gone now. I'm like, well, that was cool. Don't know what that was about, but that was fun. The weirdest part of it was the state I was in. Like I was not in some altered state or a liminal state or any sort of trance. It's regular me in a kind of bad mood. Like that was cool. That probably meant something. So I eat my sandwich and I go sit in the hammock and I'm like, you know what? I should probably get out my journal and like draw some of those symbols while I can still remember them. Like maybe somebody can look them up and like tell me what it means. So I sit down in the hammock and I'm like, all right, which one should I draw? So I started sketching and I'm like,

[00:59:30.348] Speaker 1: what am I doing? Like, it's just me. Like I can just set an intention. Hey, self, show me the most important one I need to see. And then I see a symbol. Boy, do I see it. And it snaps into focus real quick. I'm like, whoa, that was fast. Okay, cool. So I'm sitting in the hammock and I color in the symbol and I'm looking at it. And as I stare at it, I just like start to slip into this weird state, like almost like in awe. And I utter aloud. So here's the symbol. You guys already got the disclosure on this show. So, you know,

[01:00:05.148] Speaker 1: whatever. You don't want to watch this. You already know that you're moving towards these sorts of states if you're paying attention. So here we go. Here's the symbol. It's an eye with a boy in chains. So these bindings. It's a red-eyed reptilian eye wrapped up in chains, like suspended over this giant eye. And I know the boy is me. And as I'm staring at it, I utter aloud, I am not the boy. I'm the chains. Like it just comes out of me. Like, whoa. And then the moment I say that,

[01:00:40.368] Speaker 1: my entire experience of like I'm this guy sitting in the hammock. I'll just read the actual journal. And then my entire experience inverted. A self was the relief, the hollow spot at the center of me, which was everything else. There is only a boy-shaped hole in my center. I feel it. I did it. That's what I am. So I am literally sitting in this hammock, again, stoat cold summer, just kind of drawing a symbol. And I say these words out loud. And the moment I say them, like flipping a switch, I am all

[01:01:15.376] Speaker 1: of my experience around me instantly snapped into an extreme non-dual state. And I am not just like non-dual aware, like I kind of feel like I'm everything around me. Like I can intimately tell the trees, the clouds, the rocks, the hammock, even me, the guy at the center, like it's all me. Like I have a sense of like it was made out of me. Exactly the same experience that I had at the end of the reality one-on-one, like what I was being shown. And like, I'm kind of freaking out. It's like, it's pretty jarring for that to happen. At the same

[01:01:50.256] Speaker 1: time, I'm watching a guy freak out. And I have all these impressions of like his limbs, his body, his emotions, his thoughts. They're just like all there. But it's so obviously not me. It's just like a thing that's happening in the same way like a radio playing in a room or a movie on the wall is not you. It's just happening. Like I am rather fond of this person, but it's just like a car. It's like a narrative. It's just like a wrapper. And it's so obvious that these are just a bunch of different impressions that I've stitched together and called myself. But I am everything around me. And it is incredibly jarring.

[01:02:25.336] Speaker 1: And I'm like, and it's all me. And as I'm sitting there, there's this sudden quiet. Now, normally, at this point in time, I'd gotten better at it. I can usually reach out to soul families, beard guides, whatever, at least get something, at least a feeling. It is dead silent. Nothing. Like bizarrely silent. The whole world feels quiet. Like everyone is just like holding their breath. And I'm like, what the hell is happening? Because I still have thoughts, but I'm watching this guy freak out. Like it's so weird. And I just know that this is an

[01:03:00.136] Speaker 1: important moment. Anytime there's silence on the set, I'm like, hmm, this is important. Hold on a second. And as I'm sitting there, I just decide this is how it really is. This is actually how it is. Like I am my whole reality. I'm not this guy. I just thought I was. This is true. And the moment I decided that, I wasn't just saying the words, I decided it. There's like this collective exhale. I can just feel it. And I can feel this sense of like triumph and victory. And I'm like, okay, good. Also relief. Like,

[01:03:35.036] Speaker 1: okay, good. God, he got it. Okay. Just trying to make sure he got it. Because it wasn't, you can take psychedelics and get into a weird state, a non-dual state. You can realize, oh, I'm the universe. But this was profound in that I had realized, not only had I worked towards this state on my own without any sort of influence from the outside, but I knew what it meant. I understood directly. Oh, I'm just everything here. I'm the rocks. I'm the hammock. And as I was holding the hammock, like in my

[01:04:09.736] Speaker 1: hands, like I got it right. Okay, cool. You passed the test. I knew that this was just one test, that there would be more. But I was feeling it. It's hard to describe how amazing it was to feel it while awake. Oh my God, it was real. Like four and a half months later, it finally happened. Okay. That was not just some weird dream or psychedelic. I'm here like right now feeling it. And I put my hand on the hammock and the hammock was no more or less me than the hand was. And I could feel it. Like when I was touching it, I could feel it.

[01:04:44.696] Speaker 1: Like it was part of me. Not like it. It was. Like I knew. When this happens, you don't have to guess. You just know. And I could feel that it loved me. Like it was shocked. Like the stuff that it was made out of was like a part of me that had been separated for a long time was like, oh, he doesn't usually realize that we're the same person. And it was like this reunion. Like I'd come home like, oh, you know. You know now. And it was just like celebrating. It's so weird. And so for hours after that, like it started to fade. I started to come back down, reassociate with my body a little bit.

[01:05:20.116] Speaker 1: But I was just like glowing. And when I would stop and just like look at things like my desk or the bowl, it would just, that state would seep back partially. And I would begin to realize that the bowl was me. Like it was made out of me. Like I could feel it. And I would get this profound feeling of like love and connection from a bowl on a desk. And like because it knew and I knew that we were the same thing again. And it was extremely profound. And I can now reclaim that state on purpose. It takes a little effort. I don't walk around like that all the

[01:05:54.916] Speaker 1: time. But once you've done it, you can do it again. And so this was a major milestone. And I knew what it finally meant to see. Oh, this is what you meant. In part, you meant for me to see that you're not the person. You're not a boy in the world. You're the entire world with a boy shaped hole in the center. Like you thought that you were this thing walking around in the world, but it's the exact opposite. You're the whole world, man. You're your whole world. You're a whole reality. This wasn't like, oh, the rocks or the hammock or the bowl was like, you're technically all the same thing in a conceptual way. Like,

[01:06:29.996] Speaker 1: oh, I feel it. Holy crap. We are the same thing. I can tell. I can feel you and you can feel me. And it's we're the same person. I couldn't control it, but I was aware of it. And as I've said before, awareness precedes control. So yeah, that was the finale there for the arc is that I finally in a waking state got to see that I was in fact my whole reality. And now I know it is true on another level. It wasn't something that was shown to me, something that I did and can do again in the same way that I can

[01:07:05.556] Speaker 1: do mindsight. I can turn it on. And it's really the big reason behind doing the show. I want to get people to that point where they can feel it because it is incredible to be able to look at something or touch it or just sit there and feel, oh my God, it's me. All of this stuff. When you're eating food, you're eating yourself. When you look at your computer, you're looking at yourself. It's all you. But not just like being told that, but like feeling it

[01:07:41.056] Speaker 1: without a doubt. Like, oh, this is true. It's happening right now. Like I can feel that it is. I want as many people who want to realize that to have that experience too. So there's the finale for this one part of the curriculum. If you only get there, man, I highly recommend it to anybody.

[01:08:10.936] Speaker 2: This is Reality 101. Until next time.

[01:08:14.936] Speaker 1: Nothing is impossible. You're not going to die. And everything loves you.