2 See, Wake up, Remember Pt. 1

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2 See, Wake up, Remember Pt. 1
Source: reality/004-2-see-wake-up-remember-pt-1.mp3
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Model: scribe_v2 | Transcribed: 2026-10-10T18:09:33.514390+00:00
Machine transcript — uncorrected. Speaker labels are local to this recording and do not identify people.

[00:00:00.000] Speaker 1: [gentle music] Reality 101 is a journal of impossible experiences from first-hand explorations into the nature of reality, what it means for all of us, and how you can experience it for yourself. I am Stephen Tremp.

[00:00:20.320] Speaker 2: And I am Joshua Swenson. This episode of Reality 101 is called See, Wake Up, Remember. We'll explore how to know what is real, how to make it real, and what real even means, if anything. So before we dive into that, and, uh, we always like to do a little check-in in the beginning, so just wondering how you're arriving today, Stephen. It's a live for you.

[00:00:48.220] Speaker 1: I'm good. I just went for a run. I, um, took a little nap, had a pretty good meditation. I always look through my journals before we do these recordings, so I'm often [chuckles] going to arrive in the same place, which is, holy crap, a lot has happened to me. [laughs] I just-- You wouldn't think that you would forget, but my mind is a sieve, and it's just, it's like I have to load it back up into memory. It's, uh, it's in order to even tell the story because it just, it all leaves me. You know, I'm sure it's all baked in there somewhere, and I, I remember the peak moments. But it's, uh, I always come in in a pretty jovial

[00:01:23.100] Speaker 1: mood, just like shocked, uh, at what I've been through, and, uh, excited. So I'm feeling pretty good. I'm about to go on vacation, uh, so I'm feeling even better because of that. [chuckles] So-

[00:01:34.240] Speaker 2: Hmm. Where you guys going? Or where are you going?

[00:01:36.640] Speaker 1: I'm going on a meditation retreat, uh, Darren King's-

[00:01:38.940] Speaker 2: Oh

[00:01:39.000] Speaker 1: ... meditation retreat.

[00:01:39.600] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wish I, I wish I could've made it to that. I've been in his classes and really enjoyed that community. And it's happening in California this year, so it, it could, it could've happened, but-

[00:01:51.860] Speaker 1: Could have

[00:01:52.120] Speaker 2: ... uh, maybe next year. [chuckles]

[00:01:56.120] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:01:56.280] Speaker 2: Cool. Uh, well, I'm arriving today, yeah, feeling excited. It was, like, cool to record our last episode, and, uh, the recording came through well. And yeah, just eager to hear more of your experiences. It's really been encouraging to hear about your practices and the experiences that have resulted from those, and the revelations that y- you've come to through that. I've been doing more of those myself and, uh, since our last recording, um-

[00:02:29.380] Speaker 1: You mind if I ask, like, what specifically?

[00:02:32.980] Speaker 2: What pr- uh, amongst the practices? Yeah, I was gonna share. Yeah, I think just, uh... I mean, I'm already doing a lot of meditation, deep meditation, and I think some of the-- You've shared some guided meditations with me that have, uh, been useful. Uh, and just, like, touch points and if- even little parts of, um, seeing reality differently, uh, and wondering into that. Um, like you shared about non-dual experience you had recently. And so I'm, as I'm walking around, I'm-- or just in meditation, I

[00:03:07.960] Speaker 2: kind of like stretch my mind, my imagination into that space and feeling into that possibility. Um, and yeah, I will-- I've, I've been having these, uh, experiences, uh, where I, I feel as if I'm awakened in the early hours around 3:00 a.m. Many people who have been doing meditation for a long time and are on a spiritual path know that is a prime time to meditate and to have, uh, deep experiences. Uh, I've had many altered state experiences with psychedelics. Uh,

[00:03:43.160] Speaker 2: and 3:00 a.m. I would say is a kind of altered state too, where everything is really quiet. My mind is quiet. The world is quiet. Many say that there's a quiet in the psychic space too, as other b- everyone else around you is sleeping.

[00:04:00.700] Speaker 1: It's prime time, man.

[00:04:02.200] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, uh, that's when I have really deep experiences, what I perceive to be encounters with-- Well, or just anomalous encounters. I don't, I w- I don't, I won't put a label on these. Um, and it fits really well into the topic of this episode because these experiences feel more real than real. Um, my perception is that I am contacting something or something is in contact with me. And, uh, I'll be sitting in meditation, and all of a

[00:04:37.060] Speaker 2: sudden my body will light up with this kind of tingling sensation, uh, from the core. You know, all my hair is standing on end, just like a vibrational sort of state. And last time you shared about meeting your soul mother, and so this time-- And, and I've been making this intention since our meeting, so that's one, another one of the practices, the power of intention, and just-

[00:05:03.440] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

[00:05:03.600] Speaker 2: ... uh, to shape your experience and shape your reality. You know, I've been making this intention. I want to participate in greater reality, which is something I learned from you. And then I was like, "I want to meet my soul family. I want to meet my soul mother." Um, and so I was sitting in meditation. I get one of these pings. In the past, I've gotten them with intentionally reaching out to different beings or presences. Like, I've gotten pings when I reached out to the Earth and felt, you know, Earth awareness and reaching out to the

[00:05:38.500] Speaker 2: sun or my ancestors, or, um, I have a, a relationship with Jesus as well as one of my guides. And all of those are like kind of, I felt more intentional reaching out. But this was like, it felt as if something was reaching out to me 'cause the ping just came as I was meditating, and it brought my awareness down to my heart. Um, and then all of a sudden this, like, ping comes, and I was like, "Oh, who is there?" And then the thought comes, "Soul mother?" [laughs] And then there's like, as if in response, there's a bigger ping and this experience proceeds

[00:06:13.616] Speaker 2: along the lines similar to what you described in your, our last conversation where it's feels as if the dialogue is happening, where I'm asking a question and the response comes, but it's my own thought, you know?

[00:06:31.416] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:31.676] Speaker 2: Uh, so I, I'm thinking, "Is this happening in my own head? Am I making this all up?" [laughs] And I'm just, you know, allowing myself to believe into, uh, that possibility that I really am having a conversation with something, and maybe these, uh, responses are real, you know, are, are coming from somewhere non-physical, some being, Soul Mother.

[00:06:54.036] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:54.616] Speaker 2: And, uh, yeah. And, um, so it progressed along those lines. You know, Steven and I are both writers, so, you know, we've wr- we've both written a lot of dialogue, and it kind of feels like that, you know? And when you start a conversation, the first person to speak, um, elicits a particular response from the next person to speak, right? So if you have character A, character A starts with like, "How are you doing today?" Character B is gonna say, "I'm doing well. How are you?" You know, and the dialogue can, you know, proceed in a, um,

[00:07:29.876] Speaker 2: predictable fashion based off of that. We have these scripts running in our minds. So there's this part of me that's like there's a cognitive script that's running this. But the other part of me is the believer that wants to really believe that there's, um, that these responses are coming from Soul Mother or another being or whatever when, in these situations, in these experiences I've had. And then the pinging part, you know, that really feels like, uh, a, a re- a realness, an aliveness, like a vibrancy that's just, um, more

[00:08:04.836] Speaker 2: alive than my mundane consciousness, you know? More visceral and embodied and just magical. [laughs] So yeah, and so that's, that kind of accompanies the whole conversation, as if in confirmation of some of these little exchanges. Uh, yeah, so that was the, that was one of the experiences, and then I had a similar experience the next night, and it was a perception of meeting my Soul Father.

[00:08:30.396] Speaker 1: Oh.

[00:08:30.776] Speaker 2: Um, surprise, it's Jesus. [laughs]

[00:08:38.196] Speaker 1: [laughs]

[00:08:38.376] Speaker 2: At least that was my perception at some point. I was like, "Who is this Soul Father person?" [laughs]

[00:08:43.496] Speaker 1: Like by appearance or like just showed up and said, "Yo, what's up, Roger?"

[00:08:46.576] Speaker 2: By felt. No, no, I don't, I don't have, I don't have visual, um... I don't have, I don't currently have a visual.

[00:08:54.056] Speaker 1: Not yet.

[00:08:54.236] Speaker 2: Yeah, not yet. It's just kind of like the c- it's like I think that. I'm like-

[00:08:58.476] Speaker 1: Mm

[00:08:58.656] Speaker 2: ... you know, "Soul Father?" And there's like a ping, and then I'm like-

[00:09:01.776] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:09:01.876] Speaker 2: ... "Jesus?" And there's a ping, you know?

[00:09:05.336] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:09:05.436] Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know what that means, but that's, that's just my experience and, you know, I have shared elsewhere about my journey of coming into a relationship with the Gnostic Jesus through the lost years writing this, uh, television pilot I've been working on for a number of years, and it was just ... How that's been a really transformational experience. So yeah, I just wanted to check in with those two experiences, and I feel like it's really relevant, you know, that, uh, we're doing this podcast as a kind of like invitation for anybody listening. Um, I'm, I'm kind

[00:09:40.416] Speaker 2: of like the guinea pig- [laughs]

[00:09:41.696] Speaker 1: It works

[00:09:41.836] Speaker 2: ... Steven. [laughs]

[00:09:42.836] Speaker 1: Yeah. You're not the only guinea pig, but you're, you're definitely like... You're, you're hot on my heels, man. I, I-

[00:09:48.176] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:09:48.256] Speaker 1: ... this is exciting for me because I get to see somebody else, like vicariously. It's like, cool, I get to watch it again, and now I get to watch somebody else's like extreme and awesome personal journey, you know, to the extent-

[00:09:59.796] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:09:59.796] Speaker 1: ... that you're willing to share. Uh, it's fun for me.

[00:10:03.936] Speaker 2: I always just love s- like your enthusiastic responses, too, you know? 'Cause I imagine as you're having these experiences, I don't know who you could share them with.

[00:10:14.076] Speaker 1: I was so alone.

[00:10:14.396] Speaker 2: You know, and I've had many experiences in the past where I felt alienated and isolated as I was beginning to encounter my, you know, energy and my body, my chakras, and trying to talk about it with friends and family, and they just get, you get these like eye rolls or something [laughs] like kind of blank stares.

[00:10:29.876] Speaker 1: [laughs]

[00:10:30.476] Speaker 2: So it's just cool to like have somebody who I can share it with, and then you're like, "Yeah, man, that made my day. Keep it up." [laughs]

[00:10:38.396] Speaker 1: That's awesome.

[00:10:39.076] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:10:40.396] Speaker 1: Um, so keep going. That's amazing. Uh, always like, you know, as long as it's not harming you and there's nothing like bad happening, like always like believe it, right?

[00:10:50.716] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:10:50.796] Speaker 1: Uh, especially early on. It's like this little tiny ember. Like you gotta stoke that flame. I'd say trust what you feel, and to the degree that something feels more real to you, whatever that means, however you define that, that's a good indicator. It's not perfect. Everything gets filtered through you. Everything comes through you, so that's ... It's gonna hit all your insecurities and fears and everything. Like all of that distorts what you see. But I would trust what you feel very heavily, and the words that you shape out of the intuition, eh-

[00:11:22.716] Speaker 2: Right

[00:11:22.736] Speaker 1: ... when I, the, my-

[00:11:24.036] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:11:24.056] Speaker 1: ... first experience talking like in like telepathy, didn't know what it was then, was in remote viewing, uh, Iris, my twin, I can [laughs] say that with a straight face now. But I, I thought that she was the spirit of the Earth 'cause that was the target.

[00:11:39.936] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:11:40.016] Speaker 1: I was doing a remote viewing training class. We'd been given a target, and it w- ended up being the spirit of the Earth. I had no idea that it was that. Like the one before this was like a Guinness Book World Records, and then before that was like a picture of like somebody on a high wire. Like I had no idea what the target was, and I do it, and I just get this like huge surge of energy. I'd never felt anything like it. I'm like, "Holy-"

[00:12:00.636] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:12:00.716] Speaker 1: ... "what is happening to me?" And like somebody is like insanely excited and trying to talk to me. I'm like, "I do not know what is happening." But I thought that she was a spirit of the earth. I thought that for, like, a month or two. Like, I did a couple more remote viewing targets that were blinded. I ended up getting her. It's like she just sort of cut in line. [laughs]

[00:12:20.056] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:12:21.196] Speaker 1: So when you, you know, y- Jesus is your, your soul father, like, I don't know, man. Maybe.

[00:12:25.856] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:12:27.156] Speaker 1: Like, a lot of this stuff is like-

[00:12:28.436] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:12:28.676] Speaker 1: ... and these people are way more patient than we are. They're-

[00:12:31.896] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:12:31.896] Speaker 1: ... willing to let us be wrong, but, like, because they know we'll be eventually right.

[00:12:36.276] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[00:12:36.316] Speaker 1: Just sort of patiently, like a child, like, learning to walk. They don't care that you fall down and run into stuff. They, they have no cringe factor. They don't care.

[00:12:43.056] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[00:12:43.816] Speaker 1: They, they'll let you keep believing something. As long as you're, like, moving and trying, you'll eventually get there. And but sometimes, sometimes it was exactly what you thought. [laughs] Uh, so keep going, man. I'm really also... It's really cool to hear that.

[00:12:58.776] Speaker 2: Yeah, I pr- I appreciate that perspective, and, uh, yeah, I, the way, I mean, the way I'm sharing it, I kind of share it fac- facetiously because I'm like... I, I think even the way I asked it, I thought it was funny. Um, given my history and the, uh, associations I have and had with that figure, uh, I, I just like to kind of play these things tongue in cheek, you know? And so... But that's interesting though too, like the, you know, all of these, that similarly started with me. I think my first pings were reaching out to the

[00:13:33.536] Speaker 2: earth. Um, hmm.

[00:13:37.216] Speaker 1: Hmm.

[00:13:38.236] Speaker 2: Yeah. Curious to see how it all unfolds. Yeah.

[00:13:40.176] Speaker 1: Earth is hooking us up, man. That's what I think.

[00:13:42.096] Speaker 2: [laughs] Yeah.

[00:13:45.036] Speaker 1: Being a bro.

[00:13:46.916] Speaker 2: All right, man. Yeah. Well, that's, uh, cool pre- I, I enjoyed this preamble. Um, and yeah, I was curious to hear where you're gonna take us today. Where, where are we gonna dive in? How should we begin?

[00:13:58.436] Speaker 1: Okay. Um, so it's gonna start with, uh, the next day after, uh, personal stories. Um, and then this, this whole narrative experience, you know, besides us talking about it and, like, what it means and all that, is going to be... It's gonna cover a four-month span. This is a long span. This part of the story gets hard because it's not a story. Like, it's my life. All of this happened. So, like, disclaimer, like, some of these ideas are hard or unsettling. You should get it by now if you're listening to this. [laughs] Like, you've listened to the first episode. It doesn't stop

[00:14:33.356] Speaker 1: being like that. It doesn't stop being, like, oh, profound. You know, you think you're ready for these ideas, but when you actually take them seriously, as I have been forced to, it is unsettling, like, by its very nature. Like, it shatters you. That's the word I've used. I get shattered over and over again, how I thought the world was, who I thought I was, and in a way I can't ignore. And in a small way, this is happening to anybody who's listening to this and taking it in. So, you know, if you don't like that, [laughs] you don't want awesome things to happen to you or to know how reality works, like, you should

[00:15:08.096] Speaker 1: probably stop listening to this [laughs] because it is getting in. It's changing you. And it's, like Joshua, it's going to start happening to you if you want it. Um, so disclaimer there, because we're gonna be talking about some more of my shattering. Um, and then, uh, yeah, we'll have a lot to get into. Um, stop me if you have any questions or anything, but I'll just dive right into it. So we'll pick up for where we left off. And the reason this covers four months is there's no way, there is no, like, single through line through this. It's like, it's a web. Like, 100-

[00:15:40.076] Speaker 2: This is four months after the first experience we talked about in the first episode

[00:15:43.036] Speaker 1: ... So we'll follow up. The, the stories I'm telling today cover four months, right?

[00:15:46.876] Speaker 2: Okay.

[00:15:46.916] Speaker 1: Because it is a cohesive thread. I am weaving a cohesive thread out of many different things that happened to make sense of it. But as I was going through it, like, 50 different things are happening to me. I have no idea what's going on. I'm trying to find out what's true and what isn't. Some of them are dead ends. Many of these ideas are related and cool. They're like side quests.

[00:16:05.736] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:05.736] Speaker 1: It's like this web. It's not a clean path. I tell it that way so that it makes sense and people understand the ideas. But it was nothing like this to experience it where cherry-pick the high points and you can see, oh, one, A leads to B and B leads to C. In reality, I took 50 wrong paths. Some of them ran into each other. I became depressed [laughs] and did a bunch of stuff that didn't work. Like, it was a mess. It was a huge tangled mess that I slowly untangled, and that was what it was actually like to live it. So I'm gonna tell it as a cohesive story, and in later episodes, we're gonna come back and we're gonna

[00:16:40.616] Speaker 1: pluck more threads [laughs] out of it. And they, they all say something interesting. But today, uh, we're gonna talk about what it was like coming back from that experience. So we'll start the very next day. Um, the very next day, um, I'm just, like, glowing, right? So I am dead tired. [laughs] I have gotten very little sleep, but I am just, like, I am so alive. I am just, like, looking at things and at people, and I don't have the experience of like, "Ooh, I'm everything" anymore. I'm, I'm Steven. I'm

[00:17:15.376] Speaker 1: Steven in my pajamas, and I'm very tired. But I know this just happened. Like, I'm just like, I know that I'm not gonna ever go back to the same shape. But I also have this, like, sinking, like, slow concern that, like, what if I go back to normal? Like, is this it? Like, I don't... Like, it's so strange that something this wild could happen to you, but that's, like, your next thought. And no matter how many times these peak experiences happen, that does usually come a couple hours later, maybe the next day. It's like, "Hmm, I don't wanna go back."

[00:17:50.316] Speaker 1: [laughs] I want it to be like that. Um, but you do go back, and that's how it works. You, you rubber band, or it's like, um, something... If you've ever done one of those things where you throw the coin down, like, the funnel, and it, like-

[00:18:04.376] Speaker 2: Hmm

[00:18:04.536] Speaker 1: ... goes like this-

[00:18:05.856] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

[00:18:05.976] Speaker 1: ... and it eventually falls in, it can get an elliptic orbit where it goes really close to the center of the hole, and then it rockets way back out again. And so it looks like it's about to go in. You're like, "Oh, man," and, but then it doesn't But ultimately, it does go in, right? It's just, it looks like these huge arcs where you rubber band, you get really close, and then you rubber band far away. But every time you try, you get a little closer, and then you f- go away again. Um, so that's what I'm gonna start describing. But before all that, more good stuff, right? So we're coming back from my parents' house,

[00:18:41.856] Speaker 1: and my wife drives. Uh, she always drives. And I am dead tired. Uh, [laughs] I told her very little. [laughs] I told her I'd had some experiences. She's kind of on board at this point. Like, she knows. But she doesn't know. Nobody knows. Like, I haven't told anybody. [laughs] What, who am I supposed to tell them? Like, this... I'm fresh off of this realization. Like, "Oh, I have a soul family, and they're here, and they're alway- [laughs] always watching me." And then so I'm laying... Or I lean my seat back, and I'm just dozing off, and I can, I can feel her,

[00:19:18.136] Speaker 1: my mother. I can feel her again, just, like, sitting in the back of my mind. Same presence, just sort of showing up, kind of like just somebody standing there waiting to talk to you. Nobody's physically present. Nobody says anything. Um, just, like, waiting there. And I just start to smile, and, like, [laughs] and then I, I hear her, like verbal thoughts. Um, again, it sounds like my thoughts. Um, I rarely get audio, but sometimes, um... And the thoughts are, "I can tell you have a lot of questions." And a lot of this is intuitive, right? It's just, you just know what they're

[00:19:52.936] Speaker 1: saying. But some of it is verbal thoughts. "I can tell you have a lot of questions." And there's just this huge sense of a smile, a smile, like, the size of a horizon. Like, [laughs] it's like this is very exciting. Like, I can... "I know that wasn't enough for you. I know you. [laughs] You have a lot. You wanna ask questions all day. Like, you're not done." Like, and I'm like, "I have so many questions, and..." But I know it's not the time, right? Um, and I am... [laughs] So I'm just sitting there with the presence, and she's just, like, waiting. And, but it doesn't go away. Like, it's a five-hour car ride,

[00:20:27.975] Speaker 1: and she's sitting there the whole time. And I, [laughs] I'm just smiling 'cause I'm like, I know what it means. It means, "Hey, you know, when you get a chance, when you get a free moment, like, attend to this. Like, check in with me. I'll wait. I'm not going anywhere. I got nothing but time. And when you have a moment, talk to me." [laughs] Uh, right? So I'm sitting in the car. Um, I'm reading my journal notes because some of it was... [laughs] Here we go. Yeah. While I'm sitting in the car, a bunch of synchronicities

[00:21:02.876] Speaker 1: start to happen, 'cause why not, right? [laughs]

[00:21:05.916] Speaker 3: [laughs]

[00:21:07.316] Speaker 1: So doubt starts to seep in. You wouldn't think it would, right? Uh, but it does. It does. Am I... Is this what I thought it was? Like, it's the human condition. I don't know. Uh, it just, it just happens, right? So I'm looking out the window, and I'm sort of smiling, and I feel this immense sense of gratitude. Again, I wrote, "For having been created," uh, [laughs] "for getting to be me," like, regardless of how it all works. Like, I'm just thankful. Like, and I, I just like, I'm so tired. I'm just, like, blubbering in my head. [laughs] Just like, "Oh, thank you for creating me." [laughs] All the things you might say, right?

[00:21:42.256] Speaker 1: And I look out the window, and I see a billboard, and it starts with thank you, like, right after I say that. And I, I s- I just laugh, like, ha ha. Like, I know how this works, synchronicity, so ha ha. [laughs] And then, uh, as I'm looking, the next billboard comes out, and it's a hospital billboard, and it's a parent holding a child, and it says, "Thanks for the gift of life." [laughs] Just... All right, now I'm, I'm like, "Oh, this is pretty good." All right. [laughs] And then there's another one. It's a customer service billboard, because I had been wondering right before that, like I just said, am I actually talking to anyone? Like...

[00:22:17.696] Speaker 1: And it's a customer support billboard for telemarketing support, and it says, "What if you wanna talk to a real person?" [laughs] And I'm just like-

[00:22:24.856] Speaker 3: [laughs]

[00:22:25.956] Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, now I'm getting cracked up. And [laughs] the next one was a, [laughs] an Arby's Roast Beef one, and I laughed pretty good at that.

[00:22:35.715] Speaker 3: [laughs]

[00:22:36.036] Speaker 1: And then this food truck pulls in front of us, and I'm like, all right, I guess that's it. Um, it says, uh, the brand, I guess it's a, like, a Hispanic food brand. I don't know what it's called. But it's called FUD, is the name of the, the company. And for those who aren't aware, the acronym means fear, uncertainty, and doubt. And the, the, the slogan for the company was, "Welcome to the family." And I'm just like, all right, this is, this is too good. [laughs] This is great. Um, that was just fun.

[00:23:11.276] Speaker 1: So I get home, and some people fly in from Spain, uh, like, really old friends of Amanda and the kids, and, like, they have to go immediately. Even though they literally just got home, she's like, "We're only in town for a few hours. You wanna play and get together with the kids?" And she's like, "Okay, yeah." So they leave immediately, gone. [snaps fingers] And suddenly I have the afternoon to myself. I'm like, wow, what are the chances? I just get a smile, just a smile in return, like, ha. [laughs] Somebody orchestrated that or timed it. I don't know. It was so weird how that happened. Like, literally the moment they come in the door, they're like, "Oh, we gotta

[00:23:46.136] Speaker 1: go." I'm like, "Who does that?" Like, why didn't she just say no? Like, [laughs] I don't know.

[00:23:50.996] Speaker 3: Hmm.

[00:23:51.056] Speaker 1: So the house is quiet, and they're gone. I'm like, okay. Um, I'm like, I'm nervous, [laughs] as you can imagine. I'm like, I don't know. Okay, I guess I'll go lay down and pretend to take a nap. It's hard for me to take a nap, so it's kinda like a meditation, so I'll just lay down. [laughs] And, uh, so I'm gonna read from my journal for this part. And, um, so she just starts talking. Like, I lay down, and not long after, I close my eyes. I'm not asleep Like that presence just comes forward again, and

[00:24:26.052] Speaker 1: it's just like this sense of like love and, um, [laughs] and gratitude for me. And, uh, she's very excited to talk to me. This- so we have a conversation for about 30 minutes, and it starts the same way. Like, I can't believe it's happening. Like, I've been doing like piecemeal telepathy up until this point, but I'd been struggling, you know, to believe it, and like I'm trying to piece together a story, but this is like crystal clear. It's not like I don't have visuals or anything like I did the night before, but I am not making anyone talk. These

[00:25:01.012] Speaker 1: thoughts are getting inserted into my head. [laughs] Like, and I'm just like... I just stop talking, like, 'cause I'm like waiting. Like I'm forcing myself to stop thinking 'cause I wanna see if, like, I'm imagining it or not. I'm trying not to do anything, and the thoughts just keep coming. Just a smile. The same thing, basically. "You gotta talk to me. Yes, it's really me. Hello." [laughs] Don't... Just a sense of like, "We're good. Like, just calm down. Like, it's fine. Y- this is happening. We can talk. We can have a conversation. You don't need to seize up. Nobody's gonna hurt you. You're all right." I'm like,

[00:25:36.032] Speaker 1: "Okay. All right, yeah. [laughs] I'm cool."

[00:25:38.992] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:25:39.232] Speaker 1: And then she smiles. Again, there's no visuals. This is all intuitive. It's just the feeling of a smile. And she says, "How about this?" I think basic- y- I'm, like, flipping out. I'm, I'm on the verge of shock. I'm very happy, but I am so tired. She says, "How about this? I will give you five questions. You can ask any five questions you want, and I will answer them." And I'm like, "Whoa." [laughs] And I'm like... "Take your time to decide what they are. There's no rush. I will answer them all, like, completely. Like, don't worry about it. I'm not going anywhere. Like, take your time. Figure out

[00:26:14.172] Speaker 1: what you want." So I take a couple minutes. I'm like, "Hmm, I gotta hold on. I gotta come up with them all." And I r- rattle through them, but I can't remember them all. She ends up prompting me with the questions because [laughs] I forgot them. Uh, but so I come up with my five questions. I'm just gonna pause right there. Just as a fun exercise for everybody, uh, listening in, imagine the person who created your soul, ostensibly clearly knows a whole lot more about reality than you do, says, "Hey, you can ask me any five things you want. Anything. Open-ended." What five questions do you choose? I used to think this was a fun exercise

[00:26:49.172] Speaker 1: of, well, what if you ever met God? This is not God, by the way. But these c- close enough for me, right? This is the person who created my soul. This is, they clearly know a lot, right? So it's, it is analogous. It's exciting. Like, you never think that you're gonna get to talk to your creator, even if it's a proximal creator, like who clearly knows a lot about what's going on. What, [laughs] what questions would you actually ask them? Because it might not actually be a hypothetical. Um, but I'll pause right there before I, I tell you the questions.

[00:27:19.432] Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah, I don't know what I would ask. I think I would need some time.

[00:27:24.632] Speaker 1: Yeah. [laughs] No pressure, right?

[00:27:27.012] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:27:27.352] Speaker 1: Like, oh, no. [laughs]

[00:27:29.212] Speaker 2: It just makes me think that my whole reality is framed in this society, this language, uh, this life. But to have a conversation like that with somebody who is beyond, it's like, how [laughs] what would I even want to know that might be relevant to anything that I can grok, you know? [laughs]

[00:27:57.952] Speaker 1: You want the winning lottery numbers? That'd be so lame. She would've been-

[00:28:00.952] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

[00:28:01.352] Speaker 1: ... so disappointed in me. She would've been so disappointed in me.

[00:28:03.732] Speaker 2: I didn't even think of that. [laughs]

[00:28:05.612] Speaker 1: I didn't e- I didn't even care. What's the point?

[00:28:09.052] Speaker 2: I mean, some of them I'm like... I mean, I'd be curious about why I'm here.

[00:28:18.152] Speaker 1: Mm.

[00:28:18.232] Speaker 2: Why I chose this incarnation. What my mission is. Who my relations are, my soul family relations are in this life. But I also feel like I am coming into more and more clarity around those, just in, just in being aware of the patterns of my life and as I've healed and transmuted some of the

[00:28:53.292] Speaker 2: traumas and, uh, disentangled the thought systems I had been trapped within. So I kinda feel like maybe I don't want to know the answers 'cause part of the-

[00:29:09.252] Speaker 1: Yeah

[00:29:09.352] Speaker 2: ... this life is-

[00:29:09.872] Speaker 1: This is what went through your head, and then you said-

[00:29:11.692] Speaker 2: Like the reason I s- the, sorry, the reason I incarnated was to, like, forget-

[00:29:17.832] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

[00:29:18.132] Speaker 2: ... and give myself a fun little puzzle to solve. [laughs] So if somebody comes through and solves it for me, [laughs] what's the point, you know?

[00:29:28.312] Speaker 1: It's not so easy, is it, to come up with these questions.

[00:29:30.712] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:29:30.712] Speaker 1: You're like, "Oh, hold on a second."

[00:29:32.412] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:29:32.412] Speaker 1: "I actually don't want some of these." And some of them you're like, "Yeah, it would actually ruin things," or like, "Well, I could get that another way," or, "I'm gonna find out eventually anyway," so.

[00:29:40.832] Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah, so what did you ask?

[00:29:44.072] Speaker 1: So I decide to come up with an array of questions, and I decide, I run through that same calculus, and I figure out, okay, what really matters to me is generally personal stuff, right? That's [laughs] at the end of the day, it's meaning and our relationships and how we feel about each other. Like, that's what matters the most to me. Um, so I ask, here are the five questions. One, why did you create me? Two, how old am I? Three, can I meet you? Four, what does this symbol mean? And I sh- send like a visual impression

[00:30:19.112] Speaker 1: of a symbol that I'd been seeing a lot.

[00:30:21.452] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[00:30:22.192] Speaker 1: Like seeing it. Um, and then five, because I got to five, and I could ask the big questions, the same lame-ass questions everybody asks. Where did the universe start? Blah, blah, blah, who cares? No. I'm like, "Screw that. I'm not wasting my last question on that." What were your first words to me? It's a fun one. Yeah. I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna throw in a fun one. I'm gonna do a curveball. I'm not gonna ask the lame question everybody asks."

[00:30:48.240] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:30:50.640] Speaker 1: So here's the edited version of the answers, 'cause we gotta move on here.

[00:30:53.240] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:30:53.820] Speaker 1: There's no time for the sappy stuff. I'm kidding. This is what it's all about. This is the entire point of being alive-

[00:31:00.460] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:31:01.000] Speaker 1: ... and doing any of this. Um, so here's, um, here's what I was willing to document, even that it's an edited version, 'cause I mean, some of it's personal. [laughs] It- it just is. But I am gonna share it because it's awesome. So why did you create me? One, I asked for a miracle. I asked for a child, and I got you. I got two. So me and my twin sister. How old am I? Three. What does that mean?

[00:31:29.020] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:31:29.580] Speaker 1: You tell me. What do you think that means?

[00:31:31.080] Speaker 2: Uh-

[00:31:31.260] Speaker 1: I never got a clear answer. I could only guess

[00:31:33.620] Speaker 2: ... three ages of the universe. [laughs] Three life cycles.

[00:31:38.660] Speaker 1: Cycles of the Milky Way, or like lives maybe.

[00:31:41.220] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:31:41.600] Speaker 1: Like incarnations, maybe.

[00:31:42.880] Speaker 2: It could be.

[00:31:43.080] Speaker 1: Like three lives. Reincarnation.

[00:31:44.820] Speaker 2: Three. Three.

[00:31:45.160] Speaker 1: I don't know. How do you measure that?

[00:31:46.660] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:31:47.480] Speaker 1: Three. That was such a straight answer, too. It was so fast. Like, all of these answers are like, bam. You don't have to guess.

[00:31:53.620] Speaker 2: Well, can I give another impression?

[00:31:54.860] Speaker 1: Like, boom, here's the answer. Yeah.

[00:31:57.180] Speaker 2: I like, I like, uh, you know, growing up, you kind of, I, I feel like, uh, uh, I should be further along. I should be, like, closer to enlightenment. I should have more wisdom. I should be more successful or something like that, or more integrated. And, uh, three is like, uh, you're a child. [laughs] You're young.

[00:32:23.740] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:32:24.200] Speaker 2: And so it kinda gives the pr- like, takes the pressure off, like, okay. Yeah.

[00:32:29.260] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she said.

[00:32:30.260] Speaker 2: I'm just three.

[00:32:30.640] Speaker 1: I am young-ish.

[00:32:32.080] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:32:32.920] Speaker 1: And in other conversations with people who usually don't bother to give their names, but clearly know more than I do, just sort of smile, and I once got the line, "I love young souls." I'm like, "What am I supposed to say?" I can't, I can't, like, say anything rude in response 'cause that only validates what you just told me. [laughs] Just, ugh. Whatever.

[00:32:54.960] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:32:57.080] Speaker 1: Anyway. All right. So can I meet you? All right, this one's interesting. Um, so she says, "Yes." And then I'm like, "Okay." [laughs] A- and, and I say... She says, "Soon." I'm like, "How soon?" No, that happens later, actually. So she's like, actually, she says, "Open your, open your eyes." I'm like, "Uh, okay." [laughs] Let me just do that. I'm looking at my ceiling. You know what I see? Nothing. I see nothing. And I'm like, "Oh, my God.

[00:33:32.420] Speaker 1: I am so dumb." Like, what, what are... I, I've totally lost it now, and I get this immediate sense of reprimand. Like, "Listen up. [laughs] Just because you need to stop doing that. Just because one thing didn't work doesn't mean it was all a lie." Like, it was just an immense frustration with me. Like, this is not the first time I've been through this one. [laughs]

[00:33:54.640] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:33:54.760] Speaker 1: It's like, ugh. She says, "It's not always possible." And I said, "All right. Soon?" She's like, "Yes." I say, "How soon?" "Very soon," [laughs] is the response. I'm like, "All right, we'll move on. We'll move on."

[00:34:06.240] Speaker 2: How soon? Three. [laughs] How soon? Four. [laughs]

[00:34:10.100] Speaker 1: Like, all right. I'll let it go. But I had this huge just, like, dip, and just like, "Oh, my God." So you can see the doubt. Just like one miss, one swing and a miss, and it was all fake.

[00:34:19.820] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:34:19.860] Speaker 1: And like, how frustrating that must be on the other end. Uh, so the fourth one about this symbol, we can skip over that. Only, the only thing I'll, I'll mention is that it has some relation to some higher self.

[00:34:32.500] Speaker 2: Is this the symbol you showed me?

[00:34:35.760] Speaker 1: I don't know.

[00:34:36.360] Speaker 2: In another context? The eye-

[00:34:39.560] Speaker 1: No

[00:34:39.640] Speaker 2: ... with the ser- the serpentite

[00:34:40.539] Speaker 1: We'll talk about that one at the end if we get, if we get to it. [laughs]

[00:34:43.640] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:44.539] Speaker 1: We'll see. Um, and then the fifth one, um, is mostly personal, uh, but I will mention, which is, "What were your first words to me?" But she just says that they weren't words, but it was like an exclamation. Was surprised that her request and that her prayer for a child was answered, and that... And I got imagery, and I got the feeling, the feeling of what it was like when we showed up, and just, like, extreme surprise. And I laughed, and I cried [laughs] 'cause I was feeling it. Like, I

[00:35:19.540] Speaker 1: was feeling what she felt, I guess, when I was born. I'm like, I don't know. Um, I'm like, and I just had this sense that [laughs] you're not the only one who is surprised when miracles actually come true. Like, this is, this is true for us, too. Like, you think we know everything. Like, we know a lot, but we still don't know every- not even close, and this one was truly a mira- it was a complete surprise. Didn't expect to actually get a child [laughs] uh, in this way. And so I just thought that was so touching, is that, oh,

[00:35:55.000] Speaker 1: this is true for you, too. Like, [laughs] you have moments where you can't believe this is actually happening. [laughs]

[00:36:01.180] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:36:01.220] Speaker 1: And you have no idea how it happened. Um, and I thought that was extremely touching. So that's that. Uh, but anyway, we, she takes her time answering all of it. There was no, there was no rush. Like, if I had questions or follow-ups, there wasn't, like, a, like, a trick or like, "Oh, you used your question. That was your third wish." Like, "Nope." There was no problem. Like, "Got nothing but time. I'll answer whatever you have." And like, "Do you understand that? Do you know what I mean? Let me show you." And then just sort of, I'm getting pretty burned out again. It's like, okay, you know, bye, I love

[00:36:36.224] Speaker 1: you. And that was it. Just fades out. I'm just laying in bed again. And so after that, um, that night, either that night or the next night, I can't recall, uh, I'm on a walk and I'm talking to some people from the Mindsight training. It's, you know, when I learned to see without, without eyes, like the, the month or two before, whatever. [laughs] Let's just gloss over that. I haven't even gotten around to that stuff.

[00:36:58.404] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:58.584] Speaker 1: I'm talking to some friends, and I mention my UFO experiences to them, and, you know, they're excited about it, and I, I talk about them. And, you know, they, they changed another topic, and it's nighttime, and I look, and I see, uh, I see a light on a neighbor's porch, and I'm looking at it, and I have the thought, "Huh, that looks like a person made of light. I wonder if I'll ever see someone like that." [laughs] What a... And then I just start laughing. I'm like, "What the hell?" Like, those aren't thoughts that I think. Like, come on. [laughs] You

[00:37:33.664] Speaker 1: need to be a little more subtle than that. Like, that was definitely not my thought. But it sounds exactly like your thought. There's no distinguishing factor other than the fact that it's like, this was clearly an inception. You guys have seen the movie Inception. That was what that was. [laughs] It's like, ah, I didn't think that. Well, I- it happened to me, and I just laugh. I'm like, what a weird thing to think. And I turn the corner, and I look up, and in the sky, I see a bright white ball of light. It's maybe a quarter of a mile up, less than that, and it's just sitting there, and

[00:38:08.624] Speaker 1: it's floating slightly towards me. And I get this immediate sense of, like, smugness. Like, sort of loving smugness and just, see? It's the same per- it's the same feeling as with Soul Mother from the day before or that morning. Same sort of feeling of who it is and just, just a smugness like, "See? I told you. I told you you would see me." [laughs] And then it fades out, just straight to black. No sound, no running lights, just a white ball of light. And it's, [laughs] I don't know, a couple feet across, but it's pretty high up. Like, then it's gone. I'm like, and I'm like,

[00:38:43.744] Speaker 1: oh my God. I'm on the phone with these people, so like, [laughs] I'm trying not to freak out. And I'm like, wow. And I'm just like, thank you. Like, I really needed to see that. Thank you. I really... You wouldn't think it, and it's not good to need physical evidence. This is something we're gonna return to over and over again. It's not good to rely on needing physical evidence, and you have to learn to trust your inner senses. That's a-- Because it's, those are true. But this was really a gift. I needed this validation of like, oh, something in the physical

[00:39:18.604] Speaker 1: world. [laughs] You w- more than just synchronicities. I needed to see something, someone, I suppose. Um, and like, I needed to see that it was true. Just some part of the human brain needs to connect those dots, and so that's what happened.

[00:39:38.364] Speaker 2: Hmm. I'm in awe of these experiences.

[00:39:42.704] Speaker 1: [laughs]

[00:39:43.104] Speaker 2: A little, little jealous. [laughs]

[00:39:45.184] Speaker 1: Uh, well, you can have your own version of it.

[00:39:47.064] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:39:47.104] Speaker 1: But these are peak moments. So let's not rest on our laurels too long here, because the next week is very, very much the opposite. I have to go back to work now.

[00:39:58.004] Speaker 2: Well, hold on, hold on. I just wanna, I just wanna sit with this for a moment.

[00:40:01.924] Speaker 1: Yeah, sit with it.

[00:40:02.644] Speaker 2: 'Cause-

[00:40:03.164] Speaker 1: Because I'm about to shatter your-

[00:40:05.184] Speaker 2: Yeah

[00:40:05.244] Speaker 1: ... your happiness and your warm feelings. [laughs] 'Cause that's what happened to me. Feel free to ask any questions before we depart this wonderful place.

[00:40:15.484] Speaker 2: Well, I just was reflecting that what you just shared is really profound, that we don't need to, we shouldn't need to rely upon physical evidence. That is completely contradictory to anything I'd ever been taught to believe about how we make sense of reality and how we find truth according to a materialist paradigm, uh, sci-

[00:40:50.663] Speaker 2: scientific method. So there's a lot of unlearning that needs to happen that I, I need to experience more of. Coming to trust more and more of these experiences. Speaking with you validates them, hearing about your experiences. Uh, and I think circling back to the topic of this conversation, what is real, is really interesting to,

[00:41:25.744] Speaker 2: to view from that lens. You know, as I was sharing about my experiences, um, some people say that psychedelic experiences take you to a place that are, that is more real than real. And, uh, I've experienced that many times. It's hard to communicate because the psychedelic experience is framed in our culture as hallucination, you know, which is not real. But the lived experience, I think,

[00:42:00.704] Speaker 2: in the right, in a, you know, in a set and setting, in a context that supports, uh, inner exploration and is safe. You know, a lot of people take psychedelics at a rave or, you know, at a music festival. That's a very different experience from, you know, creating a safe container, having a guide or, you know, even guiding yourself, but bringing intention to go inward and explore inward. My perception is that opens up into the true nature of reality when you can really make proper preparation and, uh-

[00:42:36.776] Speaker 2: There's this whole interior expanse that opened up in my own experience that I was completely oblivious to from the perception of mundane consciousness, waking consciousness that we, uh, use to navigate roads and streets and strangers and business and shopping. And, uh, yeah, it's just many of those experiences and the ones I talked about at the beginning of this episode, from a lived experience in my body, they feel a lot more

[00:43:11.836] Speaker 2: alive. Like, imagine all the cells of your body lighting up or, yeah, perceiving with sight you didn't know you had, and then coming back in- to this reality and being like, "Wait, I'm blind." [laughs] So that's, that's where my mind goes in, in your, in these reflections and... But also how cool it is, like, I think, you know, I'm- I've stopped using psychedelics for a couple months

[00:43:46.756] Speaker 2: now and r- have really been doing a lot more meditation and creating more int- intention around, um, cultivating my inner sense and, um, having these kinds of experiences in a sober state because I want to know that they're really real, you know?

[00:44:04.096] Speaker 1: It's different.

[00:44:04.336] Speaker 2: I w- And, and I want to integrate that, uh, greater reality, as you called it, into my lived reality. So a little ball of light feels like a good, a good little, like, wink. [laughs]

[00:44:19.656] Speaker 1: I needed it, right?

[00:44:20.956] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:44:21.016] Speaker 1: It was... I mean, this, people would call this a white light orb UFO.

[00:44:26.696] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:44:26.796] Speaker 1: I would call this a soul [laughs] manifested physically, right? I would now. I didn't know that before, but she was talking to me, so, like, it was pretty obvious that that's what that was. Um, it was big. It wasn't like a little, tiny ghost orb. Like, this was, ooh, this is luminous. [laughs] This thing's bright. Um, and it came from, as you mentioned, like, following something that was definitely not physical, a feeling, a thought, and I followed these breadcrumbs to the point where eventually I got profound experiences, which you're starting to have, but those are

[00:45:01.776] Speaker 1: still felt, right? Those are subjective. Like, they, they're just an experience, air quotes. You will eventually always get validation, even physical world validation, and you should expect it, but you're gonna have to be very patient, and you're gonna have to sit with what everyone else will think is a stupid idea long enough to see that it is true.

[00:45:23.936] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:45:24.256] Speaker 1: So this is m- middle road where you take it seriously and you follow it, knowing that you have to hold it lightly because many of these things won't pan out, or you'll be wrong in a way that, like, teaches you something about yourself. I was just looking at myself, and that's okay. [laughs] You're, as you now know, you're always looking at yourself. Um, and so there's this push-pull patience. Like, okay, I opened my eyes and I saw nothing. Like, when I was laying in bed, I'm like, "Oh, pfft, it's all fake." [laughs] You can't rubber band this hard or you'll kill it. You'll crush it. You also can't become so obsessive that, like, you become delusional because now you're detached from

[00:45:59.216] Speaker 1: an actual signal, right? You're just pumping your own signal at yourself. You're living your own delusion now. You're not actually communicating with anyone or anything. [laughs] So you should expect accountability and eventual validation, but you're gonna have to be way more patient than you ever wanted to be for the good stuff. Like, not for the cool experiences. Those can start happening, but for physical world validation, it takes way longer than you want it to. [laughs] Um, but it does eventually happen because it's true. It's the same principles. It's the same place. There's no difference. The spiritual world or

[00:46:34.256] Speaker 1: whatever is not separate.

[00:46:39.896] Speaker 2: Hmm. So what came to mind is your practice of spinning the psi wheel and-

[00:46:47.116] Speaker 1: Oh, damn

[00:46:47.816] Speaker 2: ... a psi wheel is a little, um... I'll show you mine right here.

[00:46:56.096] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:57.555] Speaker 2: It's a sponge, and there's a needle, and there's a little bit of, uh, aluminum foil on top.

[00:47:02.456] Speaker 1: It's like a little tent.

[00:47:03.076] Speaker 2: And-

[00:47:03.356] Speaker 1: Hold it over the top.

[00:47:04.256] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:47:04.376] Speaker 1: It spins on it 'cause there's low friction.

[00:47:06.436] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. You've shared with me about your practice of learning to spin this thing and have shared videos of you accomplishing this. Uh, I'm still on the fence whether those are AI generated or-

[00:47:18.396] Speaker 1: Oh, come on.

[00:47:19.336] Speaker 2: [laughs] No, I'm just kidding. I believe you. I believe you. [laughs] Um, but you said that, you know, you had to sit for 30 hours just staring at this thing, hoping and believing that it's possible before you could even get it to spin a little bit. And how, like, how long, how challenging that must be, and I've done a little bit of that just beginning to step into that, um, practice. The thought is just like, "This is stupid. Is this possible?" [laughs] It's like, as I'm sitting there, it's like, you know,

[00:47:54.876] Speaker 2: I don't know what's really, like, uh, at what point will it sh- shift, but I feel like that's the thought that comes up. So you're like, every time you're s- coming to this practice, and any of these practices, I love that phrase you mentioned again just now, and I think you mentioned it last episode. You have to be willing to sit, believe something stupid for long enough that it becomes true.

[00:48:16.596] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. That's exactly how it works. Yeah, so I had had the benefit of other forms of physical validation. So at this point, I can see without my eyeballs. I can close my eyes. I can see. Um, I was able to see out of the back of my head for a little while. I stopped training that skill because it's really disorienting to- Um, now that proves it to me, right? I mean, I can prove it to other people. If you were to put me in front of an optometrist or whatever, we could set it up so that they would know for sure that, yeah, his eyelids are closed. He can't see this. Like, I haven't bothered to engineer that test because I don't care. I'm not

[00:48:51.600] Speaker 1: doing this to prove it to anyone else. I'm doing it for me, right? I know, and that's enough. I saw through the mask. It's good enough for me. Um, but I'd also been doing telekinesis practice, so the ability to move things, in this case, a very light thing, without touching it. Uh, at that time, I would've said I was using my mind to move it, but now, given the ex- the knowledge in Reality 101, I'm moving myself, right? That's how psi works. That's how psychic powers work, is [chuckles] oh, wow, I can see with that eye. That's so amazing. You're just looking at yourself. Of course you can.

[00:49:23.800] Speaker 2: [chuckles]

[00:49:24.660] Speaker 1: Uh, how you can move stuff with your mind, uh, sort of. You can move yourself. Like [chuckles] duh.

[00:49:30.000] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:49:30.120] Speaker 1: Um, but there are rules in there of physics, and there's resistance. A lot of it is mental, but not all. So I didn't know anyone that knew telekinesis. Like, this is not my world. I am coming from software development. Like, I'm coming from... I was an atheist. Like, uh, this is so far outside my understanding, but I'm obsessively exploring everything. I read a book on telekinesis by Sean McNamara called The Telekinesis Practice Method. I just happened to see it on Amazon. I don't even know what led me to it. I'm like, "I'm gonna buy that." Why? I don't know. [chuckles] I don't

[00:50:05.140] Speaker 1: know why. I would've thought that was stupid, but I did it and I read it. I didn't know anyone who knew how to do this. So I read the book, and I set up this eye wheel, and I practiced for over the course of three to six months, at least 30 hours total time staring at this thing. It becomes like one of my regular meditations, 30 minutes or so at a time, m- up to an hour sometimes, depending how obsessive I am, just staring at this stupid piece of aluminum foil. Move. I try everything. Everything. Everything you can imagine, and I still-- It doesn't move, and

[00:50:40.040] Speaker 1: it's so infuriating. Like, at this point, you know, I don't have any mindsight. Um, I don't even think I was doing much telepathy or anything then. I just, I th- I had this sense that I could, that it should be possible. I'd already seen UFOs. I'm like, "Man, if that's possible, this has gotta be..." I don't wanna give up.

[00:50:58.000] Speaker 2: [chuckles]

[00:50:59.080] Speaker 1: And then one day, I'm staring at this piece of aluminum foil, and I just have this feeling like it's gonna move. I just, I know it is. I can feel that it is. It's going to. And then it, it wiggles, and then it starts to turn, and I just start crying. I'm like openly crying.

[00:51:16.380] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:51:16.440] Speaker 1: It's like, "I did it." [chuckles] Like I said, without touching it. I'm like three feet away from this thing. It's in a shoebox, basically, in a recessed cubby in my walk-in closet, uh, where there's no airflow. So this, I know when this thing moves and doesn't move. It wasn't vibration. It was nothing. Like, I've been staring at this thing for 30 hours of my life. I know what makes it move and doesn't make it move, intimately. [chuckles] And it spins, and I start to cry because it, it's real. Like, this isn't, my experiences aren't things that are just happening to me now at that point. And it's like, I can do it. Like I needed to see

[00:51:51.480] Speaker 1: something physical move. Um, and since then, as you well know, I've done maybe close to 100 hours of practice in telekinesis now, and I, I can make it move under glass, which doesn't sound that fancy, under a big like bell glass jar. So this thing is isolated. That doesn't sound hard, but it's at least 10 times harder. Uh, and I can do it from a distance as well. I don't even have to touch it now. It's hard, uh, but I can do it maybe one in two sessions, one in three sessions. I can do it without touching it from a few feet away under a bell jar. I can get it to spin now, and, um, that's practice, so anyone can do

[00:52:26.440] Speaker 1: it. But I needed to see physical validation. I, it's hard to understa- like how much it matters, I think especially to the human brain. You just nee- you need to see something in your physical environment 'cause it's what we understand. It's what we're used to. Um, and that, that changed me for sure.

[00:52:46.000] Speaker 2: Wow. I can only get mine to move when the window's open and there's a breeze coming through.

[00:52:50.880] Speaker 1: [chuckles] You'll get it. You'll get it.

[00:52:53.060] Speaker 2: [chuckles]

[00:52:53.680] Speaker 1: Um, start with your hands.

[00:52:54.899] Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like, "Oh, it moved," and like I realized, oh, I'm breathing too hard, or like, oh, the window's open. [chuckles]

[00:53:03.240] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like that.

[00:53:03.760] Speaker 2: Uh, what, what's the point of cultivating these psi capacities?

[00:53:09.360] Speaker 1: [chuckles] It is-- So this is my personal theory, right? Uh, and I think we'll talk about this when we get into mindsight. This is like a whole part of the story arc [chuckles] that's just been totally ignored. It was so profound. Uh, but I've noticed this. It is every time you have a big breakthrough in some psychic ability. So at this point, I'd done remote viewing practice. I'd done telekinesis, and this was before mindsight. I was doing other stuff, right? Uh, anytime you get a big breakthrough, like whoa, that just worked, there's like this

[00:53:44.280] Speaker 1: surge of energy, and I mentioned it to Kate, our mutual friend, before. It's a lot like, um, Stormlight Ar- Stormlight Archives when, uh, somebody says like the words of power and they like ascend to like the next level of like their, uh, Knight Radiant abilities. There's this outburst of power, like fusion, like atoms or like fission-

[00:54:03.080] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:54:03.080] Speaker 1: ... being split for the first time, and it blows you wide open. And experiences, like without fail, that night, the first time I did it with glass, the first time I did it ever, big experiences right afterward. Opening my mindsight for the first time, woof, wild experiences. At night, even waking state, in meditation, just all sorts of incredibly vivid things, profound feelings and information. It's like it just blows open the aperture. Um, so that is one reason, is that developing psychic capacities definitely has a functional

[00:54:37.640] Speaker 1: connectivity between you and the other side or whatever, non-material- ... reality. It blows open those doors. Now, that effect is short-lived. You get a huge burst, right? But there is, like, once it comes back, your baseline's higher. Like, you're more sensitive now. It's opening you up. But that's only one of the things it does. I think it also trains your belief. If I ever needed to know that reality is, like, fundamentally not just physical, [laughs] I just do this. Like, uh, yeah, okay. Yeah, that's my hand. [laughs] I have my eyes closed. [laughs] I can

[00:55:12.624] Speaker 1: see it. Um, yeah, okay. Like, what it... All of this stems from belief, imagination, intent. Uh, like, that's where it all comes from. Like, that is what opens the aperture to sensitivity, to making these things happen, is that you believe it can, and you believe it's possible for you, and you want it. Like, all of these, you're feeding this like a little Tamagotchi. And like, if you just keep feeding it, it slowly opens up, like, these apertures to be more sensitive to these things and to let it, like, come into your world. That's what you're doing. And so I think psychic powers, seeing them

[00:55:47.623] Speaker 1: happen, believing you can do it, actually doing it, and going, "Holy shit, you can move things without touching them." [laughs] Like, I can see without eyes. Like, I can learn things about the world that I'm not physically present for. Once you do that, it changes you. It changes what you expect, and what you expect changes what you believe next, and that, like, creates this stairstep. Um, so I think it's an integral part-

[00:56:12.804] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:56:12.864] Speaker 1: ... of advancing spiritual development.

[00:56:15.144] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:15.564] Speaker 1: And personal development, of course, is key as well, but I think that this really, it also acts as, like, a multivitamin against cultural pressure and familial pressure of friends who are constantly cooking you. They're, like, uh, pasteurizing your beliefs.

[00:56:32.684] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:56:32.724] Speaker 1: This is impossible. This is impossible. You wanna see a piece of tinfoil stop spinning or to stop seeing without your eyeballs, you just get somebody in the room who thinks that you're crazy, or they're judging.

[00:56:43.704] Speaker 2: Mm.

[00:56:43.724] Speaker 1: They think you're dumb. Turns out like a light. This stuff just stops immediately, until you develop a sense of, like, inner confidence. I can see with Mindsight now if, even if somebody's screaming in my face that I'm-

[00:56:55.344] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:56:55.344] Speaker 1: ... an idiot and that it doesn't work. But for the first few months, absolutely not. Even my own doubt, you can see it in real time. It's hilarious. Like you're, "Wait, am I actually, or am I, like, peeking somehow?" I'm, like, squinting through my eyes. Bam.

[00:57:09.524] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[00:57:09.884] Speaker 1: It's off. And you're like, "Oh, I'm so sorry."

[00:57:11.564] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:57:11.644] Speaker 1: "Please come back."

[00:57:12.304] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:57:12.444] Speaker 1: "No, no, no." So if you ever doubted whether your intention or your beliefs are affecting your reality, psychic powers end up being, like, a really good, like, I guess, bellwether. Like, just a way to test how open am I? How, like, permissive am I feeling? Like, how am I allowing things in? Because that tinfoil ain't gonna spin if you don't believe it. Um, and so if it happens immediately, you get that real-world validation. So it also ends up being a really good, like, barometer for how connected am I? How much, how tuned am I, tuned in am I? Um-

[00:57:46.044] Speaker 2: Mm

[00:57:46.124] Speaker 1: ... and it w- it, it won't lie. [laughs] That, uh, it... You shouldn't use that as your only test, of course, because you're gonna become demotivated. Uh, and there, other things can go wrong, right? There's, there are other factors, but it ends up being one... If it spins, you know that you have at least some capacity here. Um, so it ends up being a decent benchmark and a way to practice. Uh, so all of those are, are good reasons to do it. Also, it's awesome. So-

[00:58:11.704] Speaker 2: [laughs] Super powerful effect

[00:58:12.664] Speaker 1: ... I think that's the number one reason, right? We can.

[00:58:14.824] Speaker 2: All right. This is, uh, I'm gonna test you. I, I believe in your powers, and this is a live demo. Okay. I've got, I've got four different color pens here.

[00:58:28.964] Speaker 1: [laughs]

[00:58:30.964] Speaker 2: I'm gonna hold them up.

[00:58:32.844] Speaker 1: Okay.

[00:58:33.924] Speaker 2: Anyone who is doubting this and watching this-

[00:58:36.144] Speaker 1: [laughs]

[00:58:36.384] Speaker 2: ... or listening to this-

[00:58:37.864] Speaker 1: Thanks for putting me on the spot

[00:58:38.884] Speaker 2: ... would be like-

[00:58:39.144] Speaker 1: I appreciate that

[00:58:39.284] Speaker 2: ... he, he's squinting.

[00:58:40.224] Speaker 1: If it's true-

[00:58:40.644] Speaker 2: But I believe you

[00:58:41.324] Speaker 1: ... I'm not squinting.

[00:58:42.504] Speaker 2: And w- and we can always cut-

[00:58:43.884] Speaker 1: Of course I-

[00:58:44.084] Speaker 2: We can always cut this out. [laughs]

[00:58:46.104] Speaker 1: What? I don't need to cut it.

[00:58:47.484] Speaker 2: Are you ready?

[00:58:47.784] Speaker 1: No. Bring it on.

[00:58:48.224] Speaker 2: Are you ready?

[00:58:48.704] Speaker 1: Let's go.

[00:58:49.324] Speaker 2: Activate. Are you... What, what level are you at?

[00:58:50.824] Speaker 1: It's on. Let's go.

[00:58:51.564] Speaker 2: Level one. Okay.

[00:58:53.964] Speaker 1: It's, uh, orange.

[00:58:57.024] Speaker 2: Right.

[00:58:58.784] Speaker 1: There's no pen. What do you got? Oh, that's blue.

[00:59:00.383] Speaker 2: Oh.

[00:59:00.664] Speaker 1: Sorry.

[00:59:01.824] Speaker 2: Okay.

[00:59:02.304] Speaker 1: It's blue.

[00:59:03.584] Speaker 2: That's purple.

[00:59:04.904] Speaker 1: What? That's green?

[00:59:06.304] Speaker 2: Oh, I'll show you again. I'll show you again. Hold on. Yeah, that one, that one was green.

[00:59:09.064] Speaker 1: That's not purple. That looks blue.

[00:59:11.564] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, I guess it's relative.

[00:59:13.204] Speaker 1: [laughs] It's orange.

[00:59:16.904] Speaker 2: Okay. Oh, this is interesting. This is interesting. I'm gathering some information here.

[00:59:21.564] Speaker 1: [laughs] Okay. It's not where I thought this was going. Is it black?

[00:59:25.704] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:59:26.444] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's black.

[00:59:27.064] Speaker 2: Black. All right. Uh, you wanna do a couple more? Here. Oh, here, I got a couple more here.

[00:59:31.284] Speaker 1: Sure.

[00:59:31.604] Speaker 2: I got a whole bag full of multicolored pens. This is how I write.

[00:59:36.744] Speaker 1: Green. Blue. It's, like, a lighter blue, though. Uh, the lighting is hard. It looks like dark green.

[00:59:48.844] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, my lighting's not good. Yep. Yeah, man. Pfoof. It's interesting. This is, there's an orange, and there's a, like, a light pink.

[00:59:56.204] Speaker 1: I have a lot of... The right one on the right for me is lighter.

[00:59:58.884] Speaker 2: Yeah. This is, like, a pink, and this is, like, an orange. Oh, man, interesting. Live demo. Okay, that's fun.

[01:00:04.804] Speaker 1: Sure, yeah. Appreciate you really putting me on the spot there [laughs] in the moment.

[01:00:07.864] Speaker 2: [laughs] Now the world knows you're psychic.

[01:00:09.424] Speaker 1: I, I like demoing. It's cool.

[01:00:10.624] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:00:11.484] Speaker 1: It is harder, though.

[01:00:11.804] Speaker 2: No, it's powerful. Well, it made me think of, um, yeah, uh, Dahlia? I forgot her name. Bor something.

[01:00:17.784] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[01:00:18.704] Speaker 2: What's her last name?

[01:00:20.324] Speaker 1: Uh, Burr... I don't know. It starts with a B.

[01:00:22.924] Speaker 2: Boroin or something?

[01:00:23.804] Speaker 1: I can't remember.

[01:00:24.824] Speaker 2: Boroin? I don't know.

[01:00:25.584] Speaker 1: Just search Dahlia Mindsight.

[01:00:26.644] Speaker 2: I don't know.

[01:00:26.704] Speaker 1: You'll see her.

[01:00:27.304] Speaker 2: Yeah, Dahlia. Uh, I heard a, listened to an interview with her. She's a Mindsight facilitator, trainer, and I think she was one of the people who trained Steven.

[01:00:35.124] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[01:00:35.304] Speaker 2: And she said that some people are so skeptical that, you know, they train it with this mask, a special mask that has, like, that doesn't let any li- light through, Mindfold. And, uh, [clears throat] some people doubt that the mask is blocking enough, so she needs to wear, like, patches over her eyes and, uh, the mask and then another, like, layer on top of it [laughs] until it's like, yeah, there's definitely... You're definitely not seeing anything.

[01:01:01.616] Speaker 1: She wore-

[01:01:01.656] Speaker 2: And she's just, like, ac- 100% accurate.

[01:01:04.956] Speaker 1: She had seven layers-

[01:01:05.876] Speaker 2: It's amazing

[01:01:06.116] Speaker 1: ... of stuff on her face when she demoed for us in person.

[01:01:08.256] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:01:08.776] Speaker 1: She had a scarf, Band-Aids, like, a mask, a, like, a welding visor, a whole bunch of-

[01:01:14.596] Speaker 2: Yeah. Welding stuff

[01:01:15.036] Speaker 1: ... construction paper, a bunch of random... This woman's head was, like, wrap- [laughs] wrapped up in stuff. And she was calling out colors and cards and letters and stuff from across the room, which is incredible.

[01:01:25.736] Speaker 2: Wow.

[01:01:25.776] Speaker 1: I have not trained to that degree.

[01:01:27.116] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:27.156] Speaker 1: I see through my eyelids.

[01:01:28.936] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:28.976] Speaker 1: Right? Um, and it's good enough for me. I'm training other skills. I wanna see in the dark. Still working on that one. I wanna see the flow of, like, non-physical things like energy. Still working on that one. Uh, spirits. Some mixed success with all of those. Uh, I'm more interested in that than I am in just, like, how much crap can I put on my face and still see through it.

[01:01:46.316] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:01:46.976] Speaker 1: I don't really care about that.

[01:01:48.036] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:01:49.536] Speaker 1: Um, I wanna zoom in, uh, stuff like that.

[01:01:51.116] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:01:51.636] Speaker 1: Uh, but this is just fun for me now. Like, I don't need to prove it anymore. Like, I'm good. Uh, that... Now I'm just having fun. Now I'm just playing. I have other goals, like spiritually development, I guess. Um, but psychic powers are awesome, and they're real. So, you know, it's not where I planned the conversation to go, but they were a huge part of how I was able to take some of these steps, is because I had validation from other things. Like, I know I've seen some UFOs. [laughs] Like, at this... That, I don't know how to explain that. Uh, I've moved

[01:02:26.256] Speaker 1: things without touching them. I can see without eyes. Like, I-

[01:02:29.436] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:02:29.596] Speaker 1: You've, you've... So you become, "Well, maybe I've... You know, there really is a life-"

[01:02:33.136] Speaker 2: Yeah

[01:02:33.136] Speaker 1: ... or a family beyond this one. Maybe I really can talk to them."

[01:02:35.536] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:02:35.596] Speaker 1: "These aren't just thoughts in my head." Um, so nobody just showed up with those experiences right out of the gate. Like, it was spoon-fed to me. I may not have realized it, but if you can make my family go away for the afternoon on short notice-

[01:02:51.616] Speaker 2: Mm

[01:02:51.616] Speaker 1: ... what is time? [laughs]

[01:02:53.696] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:02:53.776] Speaker 1: If you can plant people's thoughts in people's heads... Again, none of this is sinister. It's all, like, incredibly loving. Uh, like a very loving, like, dungeon master just, like s- moving pieces behind the scenes, respecting free will, but clearly influencing events so that you get what you want, right?

[01:03:11.016] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:03:11.136] Speaker 1: Or to help it. Um, so yeah, I... All of this, like, feeds into being able to take this stuff seriously. It's... It wasn't just one event. And I would've probably had a psychotic break or not believed it if it had started at full volume. Like, that would not be kind.

[01:03:28.236] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:28.276] Speaker 1: I would not have learned anything. I would've just, like, taken some pills and made it go away.

[01:03:34.056] Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah. There's a lot of really good, like, yeah, really vibrant threads that I'm excited to pull. Uh, and we are aiming to close in about around this time. So yeah, I'm just wanting, wondering if you would like to share some reflections, uh, having shared this story and in, in this conversation now. Any meaning you're making of this experiences or new perspectives you're gaining from sharing it now in this space?

[01:04:05.496] Speaker 1: It's fun for me. Um, so we got through the personal story. We didn't... We'll get to the rest in part two of, of [laughs] this episode. Um, it's... This is my life. Like, these are people to me. This isn't just a fun story. I am in a unique position. Told my other friend Tony that every time I tell these stories, I know they're there. [laughs] Like-

[01:04:29.876] Speaker 2: Mm

[01:04:29.896] Speaker 1: ... I know they can listen to me. Every now and then, you, you get a little impression, like, for the most part, but this is my life. These are people to me. Like, these, this is like a family. Like, it's, it's not just a thing I trot out because it's, "Ha ha, check out this cool story I've got." Like, at... It matters on a very deep level to me. Um, I know it is true. I haven't just had some fun experiences. I've... It hasn't stopped, right? Um, and I was wrong about a lot of the impressions along the way. Uh, but it always, just

[01:05:04.916] Speaker 1: like the coin thing, it always ends up converging on the truth if you're patient enough. If you just keep getting back up and trying again, you're willing to admit, "Oh, I was wrong about that," getting some conflicting impressions, you're like... If you're patient enough and you keep following it and you never stop believing that there is something here, but you also hold it lightly, you don't need the right answers right away. You don't get the validation right away. If you can sit with it and, like, keep going, it does turn into something. And what it turned into me, into for me was, like,

[01:05:40.576] Speaker 1: what matters most to me. You saw it in the questions that I asked.

[01:05:43.776] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:05:43.816] Speaker 1: You know, just loving relationships, just finding out that somebody had been there, multiple somebodies had been there the whole time, my entire life, and, uh, how touching that is, and that that is true to some degree in different ways. Everyone has their own story like this. You just didn't know it. You're sitting here going to work, you're bored, you're, you feel like your life has no meaning or [laughs] things are pointless. Meanwhile, somebody there cares about you. They're wa- [laughs] they're watching you. They're there, and they

[01:06:18.816] Speaker 1: care about you, and they want things for you, and they influence you, and you're not alone. And it's, there's nothing bad or sinister or unnerving really about it other than the realization that you are loved, and you're not alone, and you never were. You just thought you were. That is, like, how it feels to tell this story, is how profound that is, and that's still what matters most to me. As crazy as it sounds, like, getting all of this information about [laughs] how reality works and being able to do cool psychic stuff and, like, you would think that those are the highlights, and they're awesome. But ultimately, at the end of the day, at

[01:06:53.696] Speaker 1: least for me, and I- Hopefully for a lot of other people, it's finding out who's out there that loves you and, like [laughs] what they want for you, and that they've cared about you this whole time, and that they've been helping you this whole time.

[01:07:08.368] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[01:07:09.008] Speaker 1: And to me, that is what matters most, and it still is. And that's, uh... I think there's something beautiful about that.

[01:07:18.688] Speaker 2: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, I feel honored to hear the story more in depth and to have these conversations. And, uh, they always sit with me in my mind, and I like this idea of, like, you mentioned beginning shatterings, a series of shatterings, and my other podcast is called Ruptures and Roots. Um,

[01:07:54.508] Speaker 2: and how every time who I think I was and where I thought I was going breaks open, something truer comes through, and a version of myself that lives a fuller life. And, uh, it's, uh, kind of incredible that this is where I find myself now. I think it's interesting to think that, like, a lot of the, the battle or a lot of the journey is coming to the point where you can actually begin to believe, hey, maybe this stuff is real.

[01:08:28.248] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:08:30.368] Speaker 1: There's a lot of work to be done to get to that point, to be fair.

[01:08:32.588] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:34.088] Speaker 1: You need to be able to keep-

[01:08:34.808] Speaker 2: And-

[01:08:34.868] Speaker 1: ... a job and put your clothes on and-

[01:08:37.328] Speaker 2: Mm

[01:08:37.328] Speaker 1: ... not be, you know, have anger management problems or drug addiction problems. Like, you, there's a lot of work to get to the top of Maslow's hierarchy. It's not a simple task.

[01:08:45.728] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:08:45.808] Speaker 1: So don't-

[01:08:46.568] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:08:47.288] Speaker 1: It's a tough world that we find ourselves in.

[01:08:49.988] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:08:50.848] Speaker 1: But you can make it.

[01:08:51.368] Speaker 2: And being the sci-fi and fantasy writer that I am, I always imagine, wow, where are we going? This is, what a-

[01:09:00.428] Speaker 1: Mm

[01:09:00.428] Speaker 2: ... strange and luminous time we're living in, where m- many more of us, more and more of us are discovering these capacities that Stephen's talking about, and has been, uh, paving the way or... Uh, I like the image of, like, breaking through a, like, you know, the first person to, like, row. It's, uh, rowing upstream, right? Or maybe like the, like a, like a geese flying, right? The f- the

[01:09:35.448] Speaker 2: one at the front is working the hardest, but then the ones coming behind it are, it's a little bit easier.

[01:09:41.488] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[01:09:41.748] Speaker 2: Uh, as, but as more and more of us begin to, you know, pivot and arrive at this place, uh, a place like this, these capacities can unlock in a greater potential. So, you know, there's a version of the sci-fi future that I've, you know, been enculturated to believe where, you know, it's like we put, we put, like, computers in our brains and, you know, unlock, enhance ourselves cybernetically, the cyberpunk future [laughs], you know, or, like,

[01:10:16.448] Speaker 2: we take off into the stars or something like that. But this, to me, it feels like the frontier. Consciousness.

[01:10:23.728] Speaker 1: Surprise.

[01:10:25.048] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:10:25.428] Speaker 1: Nope. Every time somebody talks to me about a Terminator future, I start laughing.

[01:10:29.448] Speaker 2: I'm like, phew.

[01:10:29.868] Speaker 1: I'm like, "Buddy, you have no idea."

[01:10:30.908] Speaker 2: I don't want that. Who wants that? [laughs]

[01:10:32.768] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[01:10:32.888] Speaker 2: None of those futures are beautiful. [laughs]

[01:10:35.328] Speaker 1: You guys can have that. How about a 90-degree turn? How about that?

[01:10:38.868] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[01:10:39.108] Speaker 1: What if you're-

[01:10:39.548] Speaker 2: How about we're all-

[01:10:39.848] Speaker 1: ... totally wrong about the future?

[01:10:40.788] Speaker 2: How about we're all flying around and lifting boulders with our minds?

[01:10:43.628] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[01:10:43.868] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:10:44.528] Speaker 1: Yeah. You can just peace out and go live in idea space. You don't even need a body.

[01:10:49.008] Speaker 2: [laughs]

[01:10:49.308] Speaker 1: What you think about that? Nobody... Why do we think-

[01:10:51.668] Speaker 2: That's-

[01:10:51.668] Speaker 1: ... keep thinking we can predict the future? Humans. We're like, "Psh, I know where the future's going."

[01:10:55.888] Speaker 2: Mm.

[01:10:55.908] Speaker 1: Like, you don't know. Every single time we think that, we're wrong.

[01:10:59.508] Speaker 2: Yeah. [laughs] Well, that feels like a good place to wrap. This has been such a exciting and interesting conversation today. This is Reality 101. Until next time.

[01:11:16.068] Speaker 1: Nothing is impossible, you're not going to die, and everything loves you. [outro music]