Not Your Job: The Art of Defiance

User-supplied captions; not checked word for word.

Not Your Job: The Art of Defiance
User-supplied captions; uncorrected and not audio-verified.

[00:00:03.566 --> 00:00:08.287] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody, thanks for coming to this talk. Let me share my screen.

[00:00:08.287 --> 00:00:09.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talk over the slides.

[00:00:12.246 --> 00:00:12.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

[00:00:13.726 --> 00:00:14.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Where'd it go?

[00:00:16.646 --> 00:00:16.806] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Mm.

[00:00:18.806 --> 00:00:19.366] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There it is.

[00:00:26.726 --> 00:00:27.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool.

[00:00:28.166 --> 00:00:30.006] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So hello, I am Steven Schrembeck.

[00:00:31.086 --> 00:00:36.335] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A software developer here. And this talk is not your job. Well, no,

[00:00:36.335 --> 00:00:36.566] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
no.

[00:00:37.846 --> 00:00:40.993] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hey, listen, there we go. The art of defiance,

[00:00:40.993 --> 00:00:43.939] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
defiant PowerPoint presentation. This talk,

[00:00:43.939 --> 00:00:47.688] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like the last talk I did for the Q3 Engineering Summit,

[00:00:47.688 --> 00:00:50.969] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which I was very happy to do, was well received,

[00:00:50.969 --> 00:00:54.986] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
so I figured I would do something spiritually similar here.

[00:00:54.986 --> 00:00:56.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is like the last one.

[00:00:56.846 --> 00:00:59.993] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
deep meaning at work. This one is half philosophy,

[00:00:59.993 --> 00:01:04.990] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
half practical advice on how to change your own behavior, how to change culture,

[00:01:00.326 --> 00:01:00.566] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah.

[00:01:04.990 --> 00:01:07.767] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
get what you want at work, do better things.

[00:01:07.767 --> 00:01:10.667] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And it's seen through the lens of engineering,

[00:01:10.667 --> 00:01:14.060] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it is not specifically and only about engineering.

[00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:17.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that is what I'm assuming this is for, but it's

[00:01:17.366 --> 00:01:21.637] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more broadly applicable. All right, so let's talk about what this is about.

[00:01:21.637 --> 00:01:24.896] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Take about 30 minutes, and then we'll leave about 10 plus

[00:01:24.896 --> 00:01:28.548] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
minutes for questions at the end. And yeah, we'll leave Q&A.

[00:01:28.548 --> 00:01:32.088] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And it's really more of a conversation. If you think I'm dumb,

[00:01:32.088 --> 00:01:35.123] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't like the ideas, or you have your own ideas,

[00:01:35.123 --> 00:01:36.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'd love to hear it.

[00:01:36.286 --> 00:01:40.546] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's just as valid as a question. But until then, I'm going to talk.

[00:01:40.546 --> 00:01:44.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So what is this about? This is about how to thoughtfully use

[00:01:44.206 --> 00:01:48.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Defiance in order to improve our product development, our operations,

[00:01:48.406 --> 00:01:53.026] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
anything about how the business works. Improve the quality of life, that is,

[00:01:53.026 --> 00:01:56.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I mentioned this in the last showing of this talk.

[00:01:56.726 --> 00:02:01.096] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Making things like better and making people want to be here is totally valid.

[00:02:01.096 --> 00:02:04.738] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as it's not like detracting from other important things,

[00:02:04.738 --> 00:02:08.043] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you have a license to do that. So this is also about that,

[00:02:08.043 --> 00:02:10.564] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
making it more fun, wanting to come to work,

[00:02:10.564 --> 00:02:14.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enjoying what you're doing. In my mind, nobody's measuring that,

[00:02:14.206 --> 00:02:15.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it does matter. All right.

[00:02:16.086 --> 00:02:21.977] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So beyond the actual process, hey Rick, I think your mic is unmuted just in case

[00:02:16.566 --> 00:02:16.726] Wallace, Steve (CAI - Texas)
Yes.

[00:02:21.977 --> 00:02:24.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you sneeze or start coughing.

[00:02:25.486 --> 00:02:27.686] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
My bad. Keep going. You're doing great.

[00:02:26.326 --> 00:02:27.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're gonna...

[00:02:28.326 --> 00:02:29.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would let you know.

[00:02:29.286 --> 00:02:29.846] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:30.286 --> 00:02:30.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

[00:02:31.686 --> 00:02:34.778] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talking about how roles and the definition of roles,

[00:02:34.778 --> 00:02:39.154] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
obviously from an engineering perspective, change in a changing landscape.

[00:02:39.154 --> 00:02:43.587] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everything is changing all the time. So this is the last one was more about

[00:02:43.587 --> 00:02:48.021] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how do I enjoy my job and my life? How do I find meaning in what I'm doing,

[00:02:48.021 --> 00:02:50.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
whatever I'm doing, despite what's going on?

[00:02:51.006 --> 00:02:55.858] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is much more about how am I involved in it? Things are going to change.

[00:02:55.858 --> 00:02:59.702] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What is my place in this? And how should I think about this?

[00:02:59.702 --> 00:03:02.978] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do I do it? And then we'll sort of take it even

[00:03:02.978 --> 00:03:07.830] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
beyond that and more out into the rest of your life, which we'll talk about.

[00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:09.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And then of course, the last and

[00:03:09.926 --> 00:03:13.467] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Fairly important part is, yeah, how not to do this wrong and get fired

[00:03:13.467 --> 00:03:16.708] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and actually just make things worse. You know, well-intentioned,

[00:03:16.708 --> 00:03:20.399] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but you're actually, you're causing chaos, so you're making things worse.

[00:03:20.399 --> 00:03:24.538] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So we're going to talk about some of the strategies and the risks and how to think

[00:03:24.538 --> 00:03:26.981] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
about this. So I'm going to give you this formal

[00:03:26.981 --> 00:03:28.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
warning. Everybody's an adult here.

[00:03:29.126 --> 00:03:33.931] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is advice. Take it or leave it, but how you apply it is on you.

[00:03:33.931 --> 00:03:38.944] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Don't go doing some things that see when I could do this and, you know,

[00:03:38.944 --> 00:03:40.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's not my fault. So

[00:03:41.646 --> 00:03:45.759] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
be wise and you know, let's go from there. I'm not going to give you a whole lot

[00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:46.926] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more hedging than that.

[00:03:48.166 --> 00:03:48.566] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool.

[00:03:49.766 --> 00:03:53.526] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So, let's start with a simple scenario. This talk is in two parts.

[00:03:55.046 --> 00:03:59.653] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Part one is, this is a terrible idea. And it follows the scenario of you are a

[00:03:59.653 --> 00:04:03.384] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
software developer working on an application team of some kind.

[00:04:03.384 --> 00:04:05.366] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You have received a piece of work.

[00:04:06.806 --> 00:04:12.878] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And in your own head, you think, that's like a really terrible idea.

[00:04:12.878 --> 00:04:16.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
For some reason, this is not good. And...

[00:04:17.726 --> 00:04:21.061] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
When it's on technical grounds, we generally have the domain,

[00:04:21.061 --> 00:04:24.610] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we have the trump card, right? Everybody's got a trump card. Now,

[00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:28.052] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you know, if you're a doctor, you get to pull the trump card on

[00:04:28.052 --> 00:04:32.354] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody because it's a medical issue. They're not going to be giving you legal

[00:04:32.354 --> 00:04:36.441] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
advice. In the same way, of course, we have a technical expertise and we're

[00:04:36.441 --> 00:04:40.366] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
expected to push back for technical things. This talk is not about that.

[00:04:40.886 --> 00:04:44.994] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Not that people don't need help with that; these ideas apply there,

[00:04:44.994 --> 00:04:50.007] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but what we're talking about is the gray area just beyond a job role, where, okay,

[00:04:50.007 --> 00:04:54.235] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you want me to remove this thing, or you want me to add this feature,

[00:04:54.235 --> 00:04:58.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you want me to make this change beyond just our technical reasons, we are...

[00:04:59.486 --> 00:05:03.094] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
full, complete, rich human beings with lots of knowledge,

[00:05:03.094 --> 00:05:07.885] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
far beyond you know how to make some software do a thing, according to spec.

[00:05:07.885 --> 00:05:13.048] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm of the opinion that treating yourself as a cog, a worker on the assembly line,

[00:05:13.048 --> 00:05:18.087] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is a terrible idea as a knowledge worker. There is so much we are leaving on the

[00:05:18.087 --> 00:05:19.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
table. But anyway.

[00:05:19.246 --> 00:05:22.196] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so you get the work in the hypothetical.

[00:05:22.196 --> 00:05:24.691] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What do you do? Do you keep it to yourself?

[00:05:24.691 --> 00:05:28.151] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you try to push back, at risk to yourself or your career?

[00:05:28.151 --> 00:05:30.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you make change? How do you go about it?

[00:05:31.806 --> 00:05:35.484] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Should you? And the entire purpose of this talk is to

[00:05:35.484 --> 00:05:39.774] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
say yes, with multiple asterisks after it, I think you should,

[00:05:39.774 --> 00:05:44.813] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and we desperately need you to. At every level, the company, the species,

[00:05:44.813 --> 00:05:48.150] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we all need people who are willing to push back.

[00:05:48.150 --> 00:05:51.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And this is especially important in engineering.

[00:05:51.686 --> 00:05:55.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
because we're often the last line of defense. We're the last thing,

[00:05:55.206 --> 00:05:59.139] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we're the last people to see something. And we often have the most context,

[00:05:59.139 --> 00:06:02.451] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
not only on how it works, but we spend a lot of time with these

[00:06:02.451 --> 00:06:06.539] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
things, literally working with them. So we have a perspective that nobody else

[00:06:06.539 --> 00:06:10.058] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
does. If we don't speak up, there's a very good chance nobody will.

[00:06:10.058 --> 00:06:10.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We are the last.

[00:06:10.966 --> 00:06:16.037] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
line in the immune system. We, I believe, have a moral and greater,

[00:06:16.037 --> 00:06:22.375] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least to the company or our work ethic, to speak up if we believe something isn't

[00:06:22.375 --> 00:06:28.564] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
good for the product, for the customer, for the business goals, whatever. Morally,

[00:06:28.564 --> 00:06:30.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
ethically, that's also valid.

[00:06:31.966 --> 00:06:35.863] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so let's get into it. We'll start right away with a pretty

[00:06:35.863 --> 00:06:39.258] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
sensational headline. You don't have to do what you're told.

[00:06:39.258 --> 00:06:42.765] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Here's a couple questions to think about. Who do you work for?

[00:06:42.765 --> 00:06:46.494] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Where does your loyalty belong? Why? And do you feel clear on why?

[00:06:46.494 --> 00:06:48.999] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is not obvious. When there is conflict,

[00:06:48.999 --> 00:06:51.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you've received this hypothetical piece of work.

[00:06:51.846 --> 00:06:54.995] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is not hypothetical for most people. It could even just be,

[00:06:54.995 --> 00:06:58.048] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this is a waste of time. We've been doing this stuff for three

[00:06:58.048 --> 00:07:01.681] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
months. You're giving me more of this? Like, nobody knows if it's working.

[00:07:01.681 --> 00:07:04.685] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Why are we doing this? Whether or not you've said anything is

[00:07:04.685 --> 00:07:07.301] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
immaterial at this point. Where does your loyalty go?

[00:07:07.301 --> 00:07:09.917] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That matters A lot. Is it to your product or business

[00:07:09.917 --> 00:07:11.806] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
partners who are asking for the change?

[00:07:11.926 --> 00:07:15.263] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Is it to the customers? You know, damn the torpedoes. Like, no,

[00:07:15.263 --> 00:07:18.861] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm here for them. This is what they want. It's clear. Look at this.

[00:07:18.861 --> 00:07:21.937] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm here for them. And you're willing to push back against

[00:07:21.937 --> 00:07:25.899] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your peers. Is it for, you know, your management, the technical leadership?

[00:07:25.899 --> 00:07:29.862] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Are they where your loyalty goes? Do you have loyalty to high level company

[00:07:29.862 --> 00:07:31.686] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
goals over low level company goals?

[00:07:32.166 --> 00:07:34.838] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Do you have loyalty to your friends and your relationships at the company?

[00:07:34.838 --> 00:07:36.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not worth burning the bridge. It's not obvious.

[00:07:38.166 --> 00:07:42.904] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I can tell you what my answer is. You're welcome to draw from that if you

[00:07:42.904 --> 00:07:45.849] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
want to. But it's important that you know why

[00:07:45.849 --> 00:07:49.371] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're here and who you're working for. And my answer,

[00:07:49.371 --> 00:07:52.764] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which I more or less said in this last talk as well,

[00:07:52.764 --> 00:07:58.014] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is I work for myself and what I believe is right. I work for meaning and purpose.

[00:07:58.014 --> 00:07:59.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I need a paycheck.

[00:07:59.406 --> 00:08:02.509] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A paycheck is necessary, but it's not sufficient. For me,

[00:08:02.509 --> 00:08:05.450] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this is my choice. I choose to do work that I think is

[00:08:05.450 --> 00:08:09.141] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
meaningful and valuable. Not always. I know. I got to do stuff that,

[00:08:09.141 --> 00:08:11.975] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least from a utility perspective, I don't get it.

[00:08:11.975 --> 00:08:14.863] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I don't have to get everything. That's not the point.

[00:08:14.863 --> 00:08:18.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But when I see something that I really think could be improved,

[00:08:18.966 --> 00:08:21.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think is wrong for some reason.

[00:08:22.126 --> 00:08:26.217] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Then it gets interesting because my loyalty is to what I think is right and

[00:08:26.217 --> 00:08:28.962] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
effective. I have no real love for used cars in my

[00:08:28.962 --> 00:08:33.052] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
case in this part of the organization, but I do care about doing good work,

[00:08:33.052 --> 00:08:36.120] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I care about people, I care about doing something that's

[00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.403] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
effective and provides value. All those things matter to me,

[00:08:39.403 --> 00:08:41.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and that is what I'm of service to.

[00:08:41.766 --> 00:08:46.212] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But you pick your own thing, you know? Choose your own adventure, it's your life.

[00:08:46.212 --> 00:08:48.326] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But you're a human being and not a cog.

[00:08:49.446 --> 00:08:53.233] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just don't forget that. And we need you to not be a cog because

[00:08:53.233 --> 00:08:57.731] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
we need to innovate. We need to change. We need what you bring to the table

[00:08:57.731 --> 00:09:01.636] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
beyond your technical expertise. We'll get into that in a second.

[00:09:01.636 --> 00:09:05.660] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So the art of small defiance. So the dark secret of all engineering

[00:09:05.660 --> 00:09:10.453] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
professions is that this is actually kind of a moot point because turns out if a

[00:09:10.453 --> 00:09:13.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
lot of people think an idea is bad or dumb or wasteful,

[00:09:14.406 --> 00:09:14.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Um...

[00:09:15.766 --> 00:09:18.677] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody drags their feet. Like, yeah, you estimate wrong.

[00:09:18.677 --> 00:09:21.830] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You prioritize one thing over and over. This is a favorite tool.

[00:09:21.830 --> 00:09:25.953] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not clear which of these four things we should be doing. Well, I guarantee you,

[00:09:25.953 --> 00:09:28.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
10 times out of 10, people are going to pick the one that

[00:09:28.766 --> 00:09:32.162] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
they think is actually more valuable or will give them some learning,

[00:09:32.162 --> 00:09:34.926] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like some sort of value they're going to derive from it.

[00:09:35.446 --> 00:09:38.156] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
every single time. It always comes out somewhere.

[00:09:38.156 --> 00:09:42.058] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If nobody says anything or nobody does anything and it's not effective,

[00:09:42.058 --> 00:09:43.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it continues to be not effective.

[00:09:45.126 --> 00:09:48.976] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Everybody knows that even if you're an engineer and technically that's not your

[00:09:48.976 --> 00:09:51.237] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
job, you have the ability to drag your feet on

[00:09:51.237 --> 00:09:54.605] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
anything or make anything poorly or take too long or deprioritize it.

[00:09:54.605 --> 00:09:57.299] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that's always true. That's not a nice thing to say.

[00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:00.571] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not an easy thing to say, but that's how human beings operate.

[00:10:00.571 --> 00:10:04.372] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It doesn't matter what the job role is, by the way. It's not just engineering.

[00:10:04.372 --> 00:10:05.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's always true.

[00:10:06.166 --> 00:10:09.852] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If it's foolish, or it doesn't make sense, or it's not effective,

[00:10:09.852 --> 00:10:12.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's always going to come out somewhere.

[00:10:14.006 --> 00:10:17.314] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you're going to pay one way or another. The only real decision here is whether

[00:10:17.314 --> 00:10:18.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're going to do something about it.

[00:10:21.366 --> 00:10:24.911] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and address it directly. All right, so now we're going to talk about this

[00:10:24.911 --> 00:10:27.115] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
part. I'll keep talking about this throughout

[00:10:27.115 --> 00:10:29.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and in Q&A as well, or the discussion.

[00:10:31.126 --> 00:10:36.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay, there's a lot of asterisks here. And the couple I want to...

[00:10:37.846 --> 00:10:41.195] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
really focus on are one, you need to be somebody who is providing

[00:10:41.195 --> 00:10:44.290] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
more value than you're taking away, like significantly more.

[00:10:44.290 --> 00:10:47.132] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's not a good idea to do this, to start pushing back,

[00:10:47.132 --> 00:10:48.806] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially outside your job role.

[00:10:50.086 --> 00:10:53.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you're not somebody who is already...

[00:10:53.926 --> 00:10:57.124] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
being useful, right? You need to be able to do what you're

[00:10:57.124 --> 00:11:00.810] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
told well first before you not try to do what you're not told well.

[00:11:00.810 --> 00:11:04.658] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's just how human beings work. It's also a reasonable expectation.

[00:11:04.658 --> 00:11:08.073] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you need a track record of being competent and being right.

[00:11:08.073 --> 00:11:12.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I should go without saying that you should at least believe you are right or

[00:11:12.246 --> 00:11:13.926] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
at least believe you are right.

[00:11:14.246 --> 00:11:18.119] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
likely enough to be right, a size of impact that is worth the risk.

[00:11:18.119 --> 00:11:21.194] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that brings us to the second part, which is data.

[00:11:21.194 --> 00:11:24.554] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You want to be able to prove it subjectively, objectively.

[00:11:24.554 --> 00:11:28.541] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You need to have something. Generally, it is best to pose a question,

[00:11:28.541 --> 00:11:32.015] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to assume competency in the people that you are questioning.

[00:11:32.015 --> 00:11:34.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A question is the best way to get started.

[00:11:34.566 --> 00:11:39.063] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hey, have you thought about this? Or how do we know it's going to have that

[00:11:39.063 --> 00:11:41.902] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
result? I was at the grocery store to pick up a

[00:11:41.902 --> 00:11:46.162] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
frozen pizza for lunch today, and one of the people at Kroger who stand

[00:11:46.162 --> 00:11:48.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
around operating the self-checkout things.

[00:11:49.886 --> 00:11:52.339] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
She came up to me and started talking to me about SNAP,

[00:11:52.339 --> 00:11:55.186] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
like the food stamp program, and asked if I had any relatives or

[00:11:55.186 --> 00:11:58.296] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
friends, you used that program. And I said, no. It's like, okay, well,

[00:11:58.296 --> 00:12:01.625] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm going around telling everybody that Kroger runs the 20% discount on all

[00:12:01.625 --> 00:12:04.210] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
produce, fruits and vegetables, if you're in that program.

[00:12:04.210 --> 00:12:06.312] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think it's great. We don't have any signs up.

[00:12:06.312 --> 00:12:08.590] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I told my manager, they're not having any signs up.

[00:12:08.590 --> 00:12:12.006] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So I'm just walking around telling people now because I think it's important.

[00:12:13.246 --> 00:12:14.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What I am talking about.

[00:12:15.126 --> 00:12:19.549] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
She gets it. She gets it. Nobody asked her to do that.

[00:12:19.549 --> 00:12:25.659] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I thought that that was fantastic, and it was a perfect example of what I'm

[00:12:25.659 --> 00:12:31.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
trying to indicate here. The last is relationships. And that is...

[00:12:32.926 --> 00:12:36.992] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
The point I want to make here is how you say something is more important than what

[00:12:36.992 --> 00:12:40.665] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're saying. That's not obvious, and it will be obvious to everyone else

[00:12:40.665 --> 00:12:44.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
around you. You can see in their response, especially when you're challenging

[00:12:44.486 --> 00:12:46.445] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody, you don't want to trigger the

[00:12:46.445 --> 00:12:48.992] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
psychological immune system. If they get emotional,

[00:12:48.992 --> 00:12:52.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially in front of other people, it's not going to go well.

[00:12:52.646 --> 00:12:53.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So.

[00:12:54.566 --> 00:12:58.613] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Talking to people generally, back channels first, trying to get allies,

[00:12:58.613 --> 00:13:01.255] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
trying to ask questions, trying to understand,

[00:13:01.255 --> 00:13:05.752] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and having the appearance of trying to understand. And not just the appearance,

[00:13:05.752 --> 00:13:09.686] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but like genuinely also trying to understand is a great way to start.

[00:13:10.726 --> 00:13:13.704] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think somebody mentioned this in the Q&A last time,

[00:13:13.704 --> 00:13:16.153] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is that if you just walk people through the logic,

[00:13:16.153 --> 00:13:20.138] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't even have to tell them they're wrong. Most people are going to go, well,

[00:13:20.138 --> 00:13:22.299] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
yeah. And then you're going to find the real

[00:13:22.299 --> 00:13:24.940] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
reason that this is happening. And then at that point,

[00:13:24.940 --> 00:13:27.485] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you can make a decision. And nobody risked anything.

[00:13:27.485 --> 00:13:30.366] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So often things don't even get to a point of real conflict.

[00:13:30.566 --> 00:13:33.116] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
However, when it does, it helps to have rapport.

[00:13:33.116 --> 00:13:36.965] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It helps to have friends before you need them. Pretty basic stuff, right?

[00:13:36.965 --> 00:13:39.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're going to find a lot more success.

[00:13:41.766 --> 00:13:44.703] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There's a lot more to it, but we'll get to it later.

[00:13:44.703 --> 00:13:49.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Make sure I don't run out of time here. All right. So this is more about culture.

[00:13:49.246 --> 00:13:53.401] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
There are no small acts of defiance. When you push back in a thoughtful or

[00:13:53.401 --> 00:13:56.060] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
empathetic way, also importantly, you're right.

[00:13:56.060 --> 00:13:59.163] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Not so much that you're right, it's that it's affected.

[00:13:59.163 --> 00:14:01.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
At the very least, the discussion.

[00:14:01.606 --> 00:14:05.604] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what change came out of this. It doesn't even matter that you're right,

[00:14:05.604 --> 00:14:08.769] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that it had a net positive result. When you are defiant,

[00:14:08.769 --> 00:14:12.490] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm not going to do this, is probably not how you want to go about

[00:14:12.490 --> 00:14:16.321] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this. It's not a good start. I'm not saying that you should never do

[00:14:16.321 --> 00:14:18.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this. You should never outright say no.

[00:14:20.646 --> 00:14:23.706] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
However, when you push back or you question or you

[00:14:23.706 --> 00:14:26.586] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
get involved, especially outside your job role,

[00:14:26.586 --> 00:14:31.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
no matter how small, pretty recently, somebody wanted to put an icon in an

[00:14:31.086 --> 00:14:33.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
application. The icon, it looked like crap.

[00:14:33.726 --> 00:14:38.226] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Like you couldn't understand what it was communicating. It was just noise.

[00:14:38.226 --> 00:14:38.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It was bad.

[00:14:40.086 --> 00:14:43.484] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's my personal opinion, but I did cite some actual reasons for

[00:14:43.484 --> 00:14:45.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
why it was unreadable, how it wasn't useful.

[00:14:48.086 --> 00:14:51.568] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This had nothing to do with me. I was like barely even involved in this

[00:14:51.568 --> 00:14:54.276] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
task, but you know, sort of thoughtfully brought it up,

[00:14:54.276 --> 00:14:57.902] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
made some suggestions how it should be changed. That's it. Like it seemed,

[00:14:57.902 --> 00:15:01.432] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
why even say anything? It seems dumb. And if it's a total waste of time,

[00:15:01.432 --> 00:15:04.140] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
obviously, you know, get your ROI out of this. However,

[00:15:04.140 --> 00:15:07.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but when you do that kind of thing, you are showing the people around you.

[00:15:08.326 --> 00:15:12.335] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that it's okay to question. It's okay to have doubts about different

[00:15:12.335 --> 00:15:15.299] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
parts of the process. How did we get to this idea?

[00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:18.378] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do we know whether this is going to work or not?

[00:15:18.378 --> 00:15:21.922] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Why are we investing so much in this? Help me understand it.

[00:15:21.922 --> 00:15:26.105] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
When you do things like that, you're showing the people around you that

[00:15:26.105 --> 00:15:26.686] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's okay.

[00:15:27.926 --> 00:15:30.976] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to be involved in other areas of the business.

[00:15:30.976 --> 00:15:35.129] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's okay to be involved in things that are just not your lane.

[00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:38.893] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And human beings are complex, and we have a lot to offer.

[00:15:38.893 --> 00:15:43.759] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We're much more expressive than our single job role would have us believe.

[00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:45.446] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Also, we need to be shown.

[00:15:45.566 --> 00:15:47.603] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We're experiential, so you change the culture,

[00:15:47.603 --> 00:15:49.769] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and every time you do, you make it easier, right?

[00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:53.234] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So you're making it easier for somebody else to question something big when you

[00:15:53.234 --> 00:15:55.834] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
question something small, as long as how you're doing it is

[00:15:55.834 --> 00:15:58.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
actually, you know, well-intentioned and effective.

[00:15:59.286 --> 00:16:03.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We can keep going. This is thinking beyond the job role of

[00:16:03.046 --> 00:16:06.423] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
engineering in particular, but also everything else.

[00:16:06.423 --> 00:16:10.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How does this sort of behavior change how we work together?

[00:16:11.606 --> 00:16:12.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What does it mean for our life?

[00:16:14.926 --> 00:16:18.539] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool. All right, so we talked about mostly reactive stuff

[00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:21.591] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
for now, which is important and most we're going

[00:16:21.591 --> 00:16:25.328] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to face. However, you can do stuff that no one asked you to

[00:16:25.328 --> 00:16:29.938] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
do. Spoiler, you're a free person. You don't have to do everything you're

[00:16:29.938 --> 00:16:32.678] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
told. You will reap the consequences of not

[00:16:32.678 --> 00:16:36.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
doing what you're told, so that's also true. However...

[00:16:37.766 --> 00:16:39.920] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You can do things that nobody asked you to do.

[00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:42.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is easier because nobody's paying attention to it.

[00:16:43.766 --> 00:16:46.493] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I am of the belief that collectively as a society,

[00:16:46.493 --> 00:16:49.071] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but also of course that permeates even our culture,

[00:16:49.071 --> 00:16:52.739] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially in large organizations. We are severely deficient in proactive

[00:16:52.739 --> 00:16:55.813] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enthusiasm. That is, seeing a thing that could change and not

[00:16:55.813 --> 00:16:58.540] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just complaining about it at the water cooler, but no,

[00:16:58.540 --> 00:17:02.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm actually going to take some steps. I'm going to start asking some people.

[00:17:02.526 --> 00:17:05.585] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm gonna start, you know, putting some allies together,

[00:17:05.585 --> 00:17:09.234] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
see what they think about this, making sure my understanding of the

[00:17:09.234 --> 00:17:13.044] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
opportunity or problem is right. And then just start putting things in

[00:17:13.044 --> 00:17:16.908] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
motion, start talking about it. You don't even necessarily have to act,

[00:17:16.908 --> 00:17:17.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but you can. And

[00:17:19.526 --> 00:17:23.488] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We are very deficient in this. And a lot of this is just how things work

[00:17:23.488 --> 00:17:27.504] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
in terms of a top-down structure and making sure that things are ordered.

[00:17:27.504 --> 00:17:31.954] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But that's very difficult in a changing environment when you can spin up software

[00:17:31.954 --> 00:17:34.830] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or various other products very quickly. AI assisted,

[00:17:34.830 --> 00:17:38.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
particularly at the prototype and early development stages.

[00:17:38.726 --> 00:17:41.553] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Very, very fast. When change happens so rapidly,

[00:17:41.553 --> 00:17:44.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and in our industry, culturally, everything is moving.

[00:17:45.846 --> 00:17:50.496] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's difficult to have a very rigid, linear process for development.

[00:17:50.496 --> 00:17:55.684] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You need people who are sort of lower on the chains, bottom-up intelligence,

[00:17:55.684 --> 00:18:00.940] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
to identify opportunities and challenges and actually feel like they have the

[00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:05.926] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
courage and the ability to do something about it. My advice is to just...

[00:18:06.086 --> 00:18:08.956] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Try. Now, if you're going to act outside your job

[00:18:08.956 --> 00:18:12.744] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
role, which I do many times, make sure you're doing your job well

[00:18:12.744 --> 00:18:15.384] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
first. That should be without saying that you

[00:18:15.384 --> 00:18:19.516] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
are at least doing your job well, and you're not causing more problems,

[00:18:19.516 --> 00:18:23.017] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and you're also not neglecting your actual responsibilities,

[00:18:23.017 --> 00:18:24.566] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your core responsibilities.

[00:18:25.446 --> 00:18:27.836] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I do think we have a greater responsibility.

[00:18:27.836 --> 00:18:32.137] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And the last thing I'll say about that is my favorite approach is literally just

[00:18:32.137 --> 00:18:36.173] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
picking higher level company goals. You know, like we had a goal last year,

[00:18:36.173 --> 00:18:38.988] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think, or whatever, increase marketplace vibrancy.

[00:18:38.988 --> 00:18:41.749] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's your goal. You're on a specific thing with a

[00:18:41.749 --> 00:18:44.192] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
specific task. But if you have free capacity,

[00:18:44.192 --> 00:18:47.006] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or you can just talk to people or get an idea going,

[00:18:47.606 --> 00:18:51.339] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That is your goal. You are responsible to higher level ideas

[00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:56.051] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and values and company directives. And that is the easiest way to circumvent

[00:18:56.051 --> 00:19:01.007] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
lower level sort of bad ideas or just complacency or nobody wants to take it on.

[00:19:01.007 --> 00:19:05.903] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you are willing to supply the effort, you're willing to take a little bit of

[00:19:05.903 --> 00:19:07.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
career capital risk,

[00:19:08.326 --> 00:19:13.346] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and you can point to something that is aligned to company values somewhere,

[00:19:13.346 --> 00:19:18.102] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
directive somewhere, you can do it. Just go do it. Don't worry so much.

[00:19:18.102 --> 00:19:22.659] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as you're being responsible and you're not negligent, again,

[00:19:22.659 --> 00:19:25.962] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
don't figure it out. You know what the risks are.

[00:19:25.962 --> 00:19:26.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just go do it.

[00:19:27.206 --> 00:19:31.668] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Don't worry about the billing codes. Tell your manager if you want to.

[00:19:31.668 --> 00:19:35.689] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But that is my advice. That's where most of the positive change

[00:19:35.689 --> 00:19:39.710] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that I've been able to create has come from. I just didn't ask.

[00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I asked where I was concerned. But beyond that,

[00:19:43.926 --> 00:19:48.156] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just go try things or just make enough to show somebody, to inspire somebody.

[00:19:48.156 --> 00:19:51.138] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It seems so simple, but this is just a reminder. Yeah,

[00:19:51.138 --> 00:19:55.477] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you can do things that nobody asks you to do. Not only can you, but you should.

[00:19:55.477 --> 00:19:56.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think that you have.

[00:19:58.406 --> 00:19:59.526] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Every right to do so.

[00:20:00.806 --> 00:20:05.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So say what you really mean in the next slide is also pretty related to this.

[00:20:05.486 --> 00:20:08.426] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Chances are you know something that is valuable.

[00:20:08.426 --> 00:20:13.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And do not discount that because it is outside of your lane, essentially. Again,

[00:20:13.286 --> 00:20:17.666] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
however, there's always wait to, if you're going to go against the flow,

[00:20:17.666 --> 00:20:20.786] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which is fine, we need people to change the flow of

[00:20:20.786 --> 00:20:21.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
things,

[00:20:21.766 --> 00:20:23.526] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just, you know, make sure.

[00:20:24.566 --> 00:20:27.414] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're likely to be right. You need to be effective.

[00:20:27.414 --> 00:20:31.229] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But say what you really mean, because if you don't say what you really

[00:20:31.229 --> 00:20:34.507] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
mean, just like before, the friction and the pressure in the

[00:20:34.507 --> 00:20:38.537] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
system, it always comes out somewhere. Chances are you're not the only one

[00:20:38.537 --> 00:20:41.331] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
feeling it. I highly recommend that you are direct,

[00:20:41.331 --> 00:20:43.910] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're transparent, obviously non-inflammatory.

[00:20:43.910 --> 00:20:46.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How you say things really, really matters.

[00:20:46.646 --> 00:20:51.830] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
As long as all those boxes are checked, I have never regretted speaking my mind.

[00:20:51.830 --> 00:20:54.966] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And things almost always get better when you do.

[00:20:57.686 --> 00:21:02.339] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Hand in hand with that is the next one. Oh, ask for what you really want.

[00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:05.734] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a real crazy idea, but you are a free person.

[00:21:05.734 --> 00:21:09.695] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And this organization, like every organization at every level,

[00:21:09.695 --> 00:21:14.034] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is just composed of people. And if those people don't say or ask for

[00:21:14.034 --> 00:21:18.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they want in the way that they work, what they're working on,

[00:21:18.526 --> 00:21:21.147] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they think matters, what they think is effective,

[00:21:21.147 --> 00:21:24.243] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how they think things could be improved, then it doesn't happen.

[00:21:24.243 --> 00:21:28.150] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
What you're going to get is you're going to get the people who are willing to ask

[00:21:28.150 --> 00:21:30.627] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
what they want, you're going to get what they want.

[00:21:30.627 --> 00:21:33.057] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And if those are not aligned, well, that's on you.

[00:21:33.057 --> 00:21:37.011] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So hopefully this helps in the sense that I believe there are only two things that

[00:21:37.011 --> 00:21:38.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
actually matter here. Effectiveness.

[00:21:38.766 --> 00:21:44.108] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and alignment, meaning to company goals, product goals, your role, moral, ethical,

[00:21:44.108 --> 00:21:47.969] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
your personal values, as long as it's aligned and it works,

[00:21:47.969 --> 00:21:52.796] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
literally everything else is just somebody's opinion. So that in practice,

[00:21:52.796 --> 00:21:57.686] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
somebody else's opinion can matter a lot, depending on whose opinion it is.

[00:21:57.966 --> 00:22:01.084] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So, you know, but it's important to remember that you

[00:22:01.084 --> 00:22:05.702] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
can have what you want and you're only going to get it if you ask for it or you

[00:22:05.702 --> 00:22:08.819] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work for it. So if you feel strongly about something,

[00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:13.437] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
whether it's a process change or whether it's a change in investment or product

[00:22:13.437 --> 00:22:16.381] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
direction, don't be afraid to start a conversation

[00:22:16.381 --> 00:22:17.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and start asking for it.

[00:22:18.126 --> 00:22:21.186] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
At the very least, get it going. You don't have to come out the gate

[00:22:21.186 --> 00:22:23.624] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
demanding stuff. That's probably not going to work out

[00:22:23.624 --> 00:22:26.684] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
well. But that's my advice. Don't forget that you can change things.

[00:22:26.684 --> 00:22:28.768] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Just a reminder. And every time you do, again,

[00:22:28.768 --> 00:22:31.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you give everyone else a license to do the same thing.

[00:22:32.286 --> 00:22:35.456] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But even if it doesn't work, you may have inspired somebody.

[00:22:35.456 --> 00:22:38.834] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So there's no separation. And I mentioned this last time between

[00:22:38.834 --> 00:22:41.849] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work and life. I don't see it that way. You should bring,

[00:22:41.849 --> 00:22:45.798] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you should be getting something out of your work. So selfish, selflessness,

[00:22:45.798 --> 00:22:48.708] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
meaning it is for me, but it's also for everybody else.

[00:22:48.708 --> 00:22:52.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That's a good way to live. And I think you should bring yourself

[00:22:52.246 --> 00:22:54.874] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
into your work as much as you can, because again,

[00:22:54.874 --> 00:22:58.711] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're giving a license to other people around you to do the same thing.

[00:22:58.711 --> 00:23:01.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a different kind of defiance. It is a...

[00:23:02.366 --> 00:23:05.817] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is who I want to be, how I want to act. And of course,

[00:23:05.817 --> 00:23:09.325] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it can cause problems, but you're giving license to everyone

[00:23:09.325 --> 00:23:12.890] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
else to do the same. And it's creating more of a culture that

[00:23:12.890 --> 00:23:16.973] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you're looking for. Of course, there is a risk. But this is my advice,

[00:23:16.973 --> 00:23:19.791] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
which is if you feel things, if you want things,

[00:23:19.791 --> 00:23:23.126] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
if you have things you need to say, especially when it is

[00:23:23.326 --> 00:23:27.469] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
other people's interests. That's the selflessness part of that.

[00:23:27.469 --> 00:23:31.677] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
It's in their interest as well. Just ask for it, just demand it.

[00:23:31.677 --> 00:23:36.726] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And I think you'll be surprised by the results. That is my experience anyway.

[00:23:38.966 --> 00:23:42.190] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, I think there's one more, right? Here we go. Yeah,

[00:23:42.190 --> 00:23:45.777] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'll leave you with this actual part and then we will go into Q&

[00:23:45.777 --> 00:23:48.584] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
A or discussion. Just you can tell me how wrong I am.

[00:23:48.584 --> 00:23:51.912] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
All right, so that is, there's a moment coming for each of you.

[00:23:51.912 --> 00:23:54.407] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I just, I just know it will happen because that

[00:23:54.407 --> 00:23:57.526] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just seems to be how reality works. Now that you know this,

[00:23:58.006 --> 00:24:01.963] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Now that you're aware of this, there's an inflection point where some

[00:24:01.963 --> 00:24:06.202] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
work you think is not worth doing or is counter to the actual goals of the

[00:24:06.202 --> 00:24:09.706] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
product or the business or what the customer wants. Reactive,

[00:24:09.706 --> 00:24:13.041] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or you're going to see a problem and you're going to know,

[00:24:13.041 --> 00:24:17.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I could probably do something about that. You're going to have a choice.

[00:24:17.246 --> 00:24:20.248] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
This is a moment where you will have to decide, will I?

[00:24:20.248 --> 00:24:23.302] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Am I going to do something or not? When I say something,

[00:24:23.302 --> 00:24:26.625] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
am I going to ask a question? Am I going to get more context?

[00:24:26.625 --> 00:24:30.912] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Assume competency in the other person. However, you're going to just ignore it.

[00:24:30.912 --> 00:24:35.360] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You're going to quietly bury it and just move on and pretend that you did not know

[00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:36.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that you could have had.

[00:24:37.206 --> 00:24:40.203] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
some small act of defiance here and made things better.

[00:24:40.203 --> 00:24:44.590] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So it's really your choice in that moment. And I promise if you make that choice,

[00:24:44.590 --> 00:24:49.138] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you will not be the same person afterward. And it will affect how you see everything

[00:24:49.138 --> 00:24:52.562] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
in life and every challenge, especially the ones with conflict,

[00:24:52.562 --> 00:24:53.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
especially the ones that

[00:24:55.046 --> 00:24:58.721] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
feel right, but are not convenient for you.

[00:24:58.721 --> 00:25:04.065] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And you will not regret, at least I have never regretted making

[00:25:04.065 --> 00:25:10.162] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the choice that was not convenient for me, but felt right at some level.

[00:25:10.162 --> 00:25:14.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that's the talk. Anyone have any questions?

[00:25:14.726 --> 00:25:15.526] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Comments.

[00:25:24.886 --> 00:25:26.486] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
We have a Greg.

[00:25:30.486 --> 00:25:35.166] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I love this, Steven. Thank you for doing it. I had a...

[00:25:33.406 --> 00:25:33.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay.

[00:25:36.446 --> 00:25:37.286] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mentor when I.

[00:25:38.326 --> 00:25:39.686] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I was much younger and had...

[00:25:40.886 --> 00:25:43.206] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
First started my career at Cox who taught me that.

[00:25:44.286 --> 00:25:47.545] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
If you're gonna wait for permission to do the right thing,

[00:25:47.545 --> 00:25:50.086] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
you're probably gonna be waiting for a while.

[00:25:51.446 --> 00:25:52.406] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I love what you were.

[00:25:53.446 --> 00:25:57.313] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Saying about, you know, it's OK to do things that you can do more

[00:25:57.313 --> 00:25:57.606] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
than.

[00:25:58.926 --> 00:26:00.086] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
What you've been asked to do?

[00:26:01.766 --> 00:26:04.566] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
But my question is, you talked a little bit about...

[00:26:06.246 --> 00:26:07.126] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Defiance.

[00:26:08.006 --> 00:26:12.646] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm wondering what your thoughts are about compliance.

[00:26:14.886 --> 00:26:15.846] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think that...

[00:26:17.206 --> 00:26:20.697] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Most of what we do, as long as things are working,

[00:26:20.697 --> 00:26:25.420] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
should be compliant, right? You don't want to introduce noise into a

[00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:29.869] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
system, even just, you know, the medicine becomes worse than the

[00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:34.250] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
poison. At some point, my thoughts are compliance should be the

[00:26:34.250 --> 00:26:36.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
norm in a functional system.

[00:26:36.486 --> 00:26:40.006] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You shouldn't need this out all that often, however.

[00:26:41.286 --> 00:26:45.643] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I think it's important to know that we are individuals and that we should be

[00:26:45.643 --> 00:26:49.491] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
able to express a defiance against the status quo or how things are

[00:26:49.491 --> 00:26:51.981] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
traditionally done, or against complacency,

[00:26:51.981 --> 00:26:55.885] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just didn't do the research, or didn't put a lot of thought into it,

[00:26:55.885 --> 00:26:59.620] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or it was politically convenient for somebody else. This is easy,

[00:26:59.620 --> 00:27:02.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
or it's too much work, or it takes too long.

[00:27:02.686 --> 00:27:05.300] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Whatever. We should feel like we can be

[00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:09.220] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
non-compliant without concern. Again, for the greater good,

[00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:14.578] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
should be net positive, well-intentioned, without too much concern for ourselves,

[00:27:13.526 --> 00:27:13.686] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mm.

[00:27:14.578 --> 00:27:18.106] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
even if there is some. It does take a little courage,

[00:27:18.106 --> 00:27:21.046] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but it should be compliant most of the time.

[00:27:22.246 --> 00:27:27.176] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And a lot, so much of this is in the how, not the what you're doing. Oh,

[00:27:27.176 --> 00:27:31.363] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I'm still here. That is my opinion. If you are non-compliant,

[00:27:27.526 --> 00:27:28.006] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Mhm.

[00:27:31.363 --> 00:27:34.806] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how you are non-compliant is very, very important.

[00:27:35.846 --> 00:27:42.138] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, I didn't want to lead the witness. And we don't have to go any further into

[00:27:38.246 --> 00:27:38.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Sure.

[00:27:42.138 --> 00:27:45.591] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
this, but I do wonder if a healthier system,

[00:27:45.591 --> 00:27:48.966] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
if in a healthy system, would we rather see

[00:27:52.486 --> 00:27:56.326] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Active defiance over malicious compliance.

[00:27:57.206 --> 00:28:01.143] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would, personally, but I'm incredibly biased giving this

[00:28:01.143 --> 00:28:05.479] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
speech. So I'd say yes, it depends. The more disordered you are,

[00:28:04.966 --> 00:28:05.366] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
Okay.

[00:28:05.479 --> 00:28:10.283] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the more important it is that the people are individually competent and

[00:28:10.283 --> 00:28:14.886] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
well-intentioned in a distributed system, I think, for most of them.

[00:28:15.726 --> 00:28:19.405] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
hierarchy and structure and process make up for a lot of failings,

[00:28:19.405 --> 00:28:23.083] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
some of which could be moral failings. That's definitely possible.

[00:28:23.083 --> 00:28:26.980] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Whatever you want to call that. Not necessarily doing the wrong thing,

[00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:31.482] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but being lazy or just taking a shortcut. You need higher quality people, really,

[00:28:31.482 --> 00:28:34.446] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
if you're going to have more disorder, is my opinion.

[00:28:36.206 --> 00:28:37.446] MacConnell, Rick (CAI - Atlanta)
There, go ahead, Gregori.

[00:28:39.686 --> 00:28:43.286] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Happy New Year, everyone. Very good talk. Haddad.

[00:28:44.726 --> 00:28:47.731] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
A question, because I always recommend the team to

[00:28:47.731 --> 00:28:50.560] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
speak up, but I think that is my personal bias,

[00:28:50.560 --> 00:28:53.152] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
and I don't know, based on your experience,

[00:28:53.152 --> 00:28:56.923] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
if that comply or it doesn't matter, always advise people like,

[00:28:56.923 --> 00:29:01.754] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
it's okay to challenge an idea or person, but you also have to look at the forum.

[00:29:01.754 --> 00:29:03.286] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
You know, if it's a 300...

[00:29:03.526 --> 00:29:06.710] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
people, teams meeting at the end of a sprint

[00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:10.884] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
review, you know, you speaking up or questioning may sound

[00:29:10.884 --> 00:29:14.916] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
very different, but if it's like a one-on-one or a small

[00:29:14.916 --> 00:29:20.646] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
group, so I always advise people to like, hey, a good question can sound very...

[00:29:22.566 --> 00:29:26.552] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
destructive in the different forums. So like, do you have any recommendation?

[00:29:26.552 --> 00:29:28.494] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Like, I always recommend start with a

[00:29:28.494 --> 00:29:32.582] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
one-on-one or small group before you build up, but is it me being too cautious?

[00:29:32.582 --> 00:29:34.166] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Like, what's your take on that?

[00:29:36.166 --> 00:29:39.234] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So the delivery matters a lot, but yes, also the forum.

[00:29:39.234 --> 00:29:42.467] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Like we are social creatures, right? Our reputation. Yeah,

[00:29:41.926 --> 00:29:43.846] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
I know, but those are, yes.

[00:29:42.467 --> 00:29:45.206] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
the threats to our reputation, perceived threats.

[00:29:45.206 --> 00:29:48.383] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Perception is everything. There's only perception, right?

[00:29:48.006 --> 00:29:49.526] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:48.383 --> 00:29:52.657] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
So that matters. The forum matters. I think I mentioned this in the last talk

[00:29:52.657 --> 00:29:56.930] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that one of my favorite approaches in order to be able to challenge something

[00:29:56.930 --> 00:29:59.943] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
that, you know, it doesn't have anything to do with me

[00:29:59.686 --> 00:29:59.926] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Who?

[00:29:59.943 --> 00:30:00.326] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
really.

[00:30:00.646 --> 00:30:05.277] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
is to go talk to people who it is their thing to have something to do with this

[00:30:05.277 --> 00:30:08.809] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and get their allegiance beforehand, make sure I understand,

[00:30:08.809 --> 00:30:13.208] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
but also literally rope them in. Now it's not Steven. Now it's Steven plus,

[00:30:12.046 --> 00:30:12.406] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Teri.

[00:30:13.208 --> 00:30:16.103] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you know, the actual people who should care about

[00:30:16.103 --> 00:30:19.286] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
this and bringing them to bear on the problem. And now

[00:30:20.086 --> 00:30:23.586] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You cannot be written off. It's really not just a you thing.

[00:30:23.586 --> 00:30:28.003] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
That is an easy approach that takes a little less individual risk and causes

[00:30:28.003 --> 00:30:28.806] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
less problems.

[00:30:29.366 --> 00:30:32.661] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, true, true. I was less concerned about the people

[00:30:32.661 --> 00:30:35.956] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
asking the question. It's more the person receiving the

[00:30:35.956 --> 00:30:40.545] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
question may feel more attacked if... No, it's just I think the forum kind of

[00:30:37.686 --> 00:30:39.926] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
how not to feel attacked, is that what you're asking for?

[00:30:40.545 --> 00:30:45.134] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
change people receive your question. You know, if I ask you a question about,

[00:30:45.134 --> 00:30:47.782] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
hey, I don't think we're going to make money

[00:30:47.782 --> 00:30:51.606] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
on that product at the coffee machine versus a one-on-one versus

[00:30:52.326 --> 00:30:56.211] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
A team meeting with 300 people, people tend to react differently to the

[00:30:56.211 --> 00:30:56.966] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
same question.

[00:30:57.486 --> 00:31:00.299] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah, the social cost is much higher to getting

[00:30:59.686 --> 00:31:00.246] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, I am.

[00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.693] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it right. We all act differently in those. The easiest thing I can say is,

[00:31:04.693 --> 00:31:08.911] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
it's all culture. Every time, we're all casting a vote with our actions

[00:31:08.911 --> 00:31:12.192] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
all the time. So if people always react poorly in these

[00:31:10.366 --> 00:31:10.966] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Mhm.

[00:31:12.192 --> 00:31:15.649] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
kinds of settings, you better believe no one's going to be

[00:31:15.649 --> 00:31:17.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
asking hard questions anymore.

[00:31:17.606 --> 00:31:18.406] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
To.

[00:31:17.766 --> 00:31:20.913] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Is that what you want? Because they're still asking them.

[00:31:20.913 --> 00:31:25.199] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
They're just asking them quietly amongst each other and to themselves in their

[00:31:25.199 --> 00:31:28.779] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
heads. And there would still be a problem. You've just buried it.

[00:31:27.686 --> 00:31:28.246] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
True.

[00:31:28.779 --> 00:31:31.871] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
And that's even worse. So what you want is to, you know,

[00:31:31.871 --> 00:31:36.048] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't want to make things worse by overreacting or disincentivizing that

[00:31:36.048 --> 00:31:39.086] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
kind of behavior. It's important to look at the intent.

[00:31:39.846 --> 00:31:43.992] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
because there is a cost. Nobody, just like standing up and trying to make

[00:31:43.992 --> 00:31:47.354] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
something better. If it works out or it has a good outcome,

[00:31:47.354 --> 00:31:52.060] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
you don't have to be right. It has a good, worthwhile outcome, even the discussion,

[00:31:48.726 --> 00:31:49.326] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Mm-hmm.

[00:31:52.060 --> 00:31:56.542] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
people will be incentivized to do the same. They will feel safe to do the same.

[00:31:56.542 --> 00:31:58.166] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If the opposite happens, then

[00:31:58.486 --> 00:32:01.426] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You better believe that people will not feel safe to do the same,

[00:32:01.426 --> 00:32:02.406] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and it will get worse.

[00:32:02.726 --> 00:32:06.106] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yes, yes. And on the compliance comment before,

[00:32:06.106 --> 00:32:11.669] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
the guideline I normally give my team is like, as long as it's ethical, legal,

[00:32:11.669 --> 00:32:17.232] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
and you use the money and the capacity, like it's your own money and business,

[00:32:17.232 --> 00:32:19.766] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
like I think most people should have

[00:32:21.286 --> 00:32:25.654] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
the room to try. I think it's, I think I'm always concerned when people

[00:32:25.654 --> 00:32:28.809] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
tell me they want to stay in their lane, like it's,

[00:32:28.809 --> 00:32:31.902] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
because I think people tend to restrict, you know,

[00:32:31.902 --> 00:32:36.391] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
make their lane smaller and smaller, and then we don't add as much value.

[00:32:36.391 --> 00:32:39.606] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
So I always advise people that, I think if you like.

[00:32:40.246 --> 00:32:45.260] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Consider, I think, which is your point, you know, that it's your own business,

[00:32:45.260 --> 00:32:48.941] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
your own mission, and you want to make the best decision.

[00:32:48.941 --> 00:32:51.606] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
I think we have more leeway than we think.

[00:32:52.966 --> 00:32:57.042] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I would agree, especially if it works out, and especially if you're thoughtful

[00:32:56.446 --> 00:32:56.886] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

[00:32:57.042 --> 00:33:01.375] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
enough and not wasteful and you can start to demonstrate that it could work, right?

[00:33:00.246 --> 00:33:00.966] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
True, true.

[00:33:01.375 --> 00:33:03.851] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
You know, you don't have to just bet everything

[00:33:03.851 --> 00:33:06.998] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
immediately. Yeah, I would love to see more of that as well.

[00:33:04.566 --> 00:33:05.046] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

[00:33:06.998 --> 00:33:10.609] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
But I think honestly, you know, just defines at the quality assurance

[00:33:10.609 --> 00:33:13.446] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
level and saying, hey guys, this ain't ready. This was

[00:33:13.846 --> 00:33:16.768] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
How do you even know this is going to work? It's totally fine,

[00:33:14.006 --> 00:33:14.286] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah.

[00:33:16.768 --> 00:33:19.644] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
just between you and your four teammates. That is also great,

[00:33:19.446 --> 00:33:20.406] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Chu.

[00:33:19.644 --> 00:33:23.401] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
and I think we should see more of that. You don't necessarily need to go start a

[00:33:23.401 --> 00:33:25.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
startup within Cox Auto in order to make a change.

[00:33:26.166 --> 00:33:28.806] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Yeah, good point, good point. Thank you.

[00:33:28.726 --> 00:33:32.246] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Yeah. Any other questions or comments?

[00:33:38.246 --> 00:33:42.696] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Cool. I mentioned this on the last one. If you do any of this and you get

[00:33:42.696 --> 00:33:46.063] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
positive results, please send me a message and tell me.

[00:33:46.063 --> 00:33:49.310] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I won't share it or anything. I just, I want to know.

[00:33:49.310 --> 00:33:54.120] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
I want to know if this worked for you. And hopefully you all found this useful.

[00:33:54.120 --> 00:33:57.366] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
If you found it valuable, please let me know as well.

[00:33:58.286 --> 00:34:01.732] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Because, you know, it's hard to read a crowd with a bunch of

[00:34:01.732 --> 00:34:06.025] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
icons. But yeah, thanks for coming. Feel free to message me if you have any

[00:34:06.025 --> 00:34:06.646] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
follow-ups.

[00:34:07.126 --> 00:34:08.326] Faroux, Gregori (CAI - Mission)
Thank you so much. Take care.

[00:34:07.366 --> 00:34:10.720] Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington)
Not us, and then thank you, Steven, while the translation gets taken care of

[00:34:09.046 --> 00:34:09.846] Recce, Rocco (CAI - North Hills)
Thank you.

[00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:11.286] Porter, Vicki (CAI - Burlington)
by some help.

[00:34:11.526 --> 00:34:11.766] Schrembeck, Steven (CAI - Atlanta)
Bye.