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Source: reality/007-5-reality-102.mp3
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00:00:00.000 Speaker 1 [upbeat music]
00:00:10.020 Speaker 1 Reality 101 is a journal of impossible experiences, from first-hand explorations
00:00:14.540 Speaker 1 into the nature of reality, what it means for all of us, and how you can experience
00:00:18.880 Speaker 1 it for yourself. I'm Stephen Trumbek.
00:00:22.200 Speaker 2 And I'm Joshua Swanson.
00:00:25.820 Speaker 2 And this episode of Reality 101 is called Reality 102. It's about the rules of
00:00:30.880 Speaker 2 multiplayer reality at a fundamental level. If you are your entire reality, why do
00:00:35.940 Speaker 2 things happen that you don't like? How does anyone else exist? And why can't you do
00:00:40.480 Speaker 2 anything you want instantly? These answers and others came through another lecture
00:00:44.860 Speaker 2 experience that Stephen had. But before we dive in on that, we always like to start
00:00:49.440 Speaker 2 with a little check-in, so wondering how you're arriving today, Stephen.
00:00:54.240 Speaker 1 Great day. Uh, it's a serendipitous time to be talking to each other. Had
00:01:00.340 Speaker 1 a lot of profound experiences late last night, early this morning, some out-of-body
00:01:04.379 Speaker 1 experiences, really weird stuff. Um,
00:01:09.500 Speaker 1 it was cool. [chuckles] Like, I met people who are alive now in an out-of-body
00:01:14.940 Speaker 1 experience in, like, a scene, and, like, interacted with them, and that was weird.
00:01:21.120 Speaker 1 I don't know what to do with that one. Uh, it's-- But it was cool. It was profound
00:01:25.860 Speaker 1 and, and I enjoyed it. It was, it was meaningful personal- personally, but not to,
00:01:30.040 Speaker 1 like... I wouldn't expound, like, a whole bunch of lessons based on this, but it
00:01:33.860 Speaker 1 was... You know, more and more as I've gone on, 'cause it's been a while since we've
00:01:37.480 Speaker 1 recorded, I'm less having things happen to me and more initiating it. I can set
00:01:42.520 Speaker 1 intentions, and they don't always happen, but 20 to 30% hit rate. Like, I
00:01:48.520 Speaker 1 can initiate these kinds of experiences, uh, more and more, which is cool. Telepathy
00:01:53.800 Speaker 1 is a lot easier. Direct contact's a lot easier. Other skills have atrophied at the
00:01:58.520 Speaker 1 same time. [chuckles] Uh, but it's, you know, it's awesome. I, I think it shows that
00:02:03.660 Speaker 1 there is a progression, like, if you keep practicing at this to, like, you move from
00:02:07.480 Speaker 1 stuff happening to you, like, you get these breakthroughs and stuff is random and
00:02:10.940 Speaker 1 it's all noise, to, like, "Oh, I can kinda, like, steer now," right? It's no less
00:02:16.100 Speaker 1 mysterious. It's still pretty mysterious, but, like, I can kinda, like, make stuff
00:02:20.440 Speaker 1 happen, and sometimes it actually happens, more or less, like, similar to what I
00:02:24.860 Speaker 1 intended, which is cool.
00:02:28.940 Speaker 1 And, um, anyway, how are you?
00:02:31.120 Speaker 2 Wow, that's cool to hear. Um, one thought that just came up as you were sharing
00:02:35.640 Speaker 2 about that, I've read several books and done lots of, like, work on dreamworks and
00:02:39.860 Speaker 2 thing-- dreamwork and things like that. Um,
00:02:44.420 Speaker 2 forgot the name of the first author, but Robert Monroe and this other guy who wrote,
00:02:48.040 Speaker 2 writes about dreambook, dreamwork both suggest that every night we go out of body,
00:02:53.000 Speaker 2 we just don't always remember it, and sometimes it's, like, filtered through what we
00:02:57.500 Speaker 2 interpret as our dreams, but those might actually be out-of-body experiences,
00:03:01.420 Speaker 2 especially if you have dreams of flying and things like that, they suggest. So when
00:03:05.060 Speaker 2 you're meeting other people, I'm like, well, maybe you're aware of your out-of-body
00:03:08.100 Speaker 2 experience, and you're actually meeting these other people, but they're, you know,
00:03:11.620 Speaker 2 in the dream state or something. I think that's an interesting idea. Uh,
00:03:15.900 Speaker 2 [clears throat] uh, yeah, so for me, you know, I-- we checked in a little bit before
00:03:20.220 Speaker 2 this. I've been really, uh, engaged in some of my creative work. I've been doing AI
00:03:25.500 Speaker 2 filmmaking and entered a contest. Uh, so I have a short film that's largely inspired
00:03:30.680 Speaker 2 by, you know, my own personal practices with psychic phenomena and
00:03:36.720 Speaker 2 practices and training and, you know, a lot of Stephen's, uh, journey. So it's
00:03:41.100 Speaker 2 called "Psy Guy." I'm gonna throw it up on YouTube soon, so hopefully it'll be up
00:03:45.220 Speaker 2 before this episode airs.
00:03:45.420 Speaker 1 Put a link in the show notes, man.
00:03:46.960 Speaker 2 Okay, yeah. Let's do it. Yeah.
00:03:48.480 Speaker 1 Yeah. Just directly link.
00:03:49.360 Speaker 2 Oh, perfect. Yeah. It's-- And, and it was a s- it was, um, a project that
00:03:55.280 Speaker 2 really pushed me to, uh, up my skills and work harder over a short
00:04:01.160 Speaker 2 period of time than I've ever worked before. Uh, it was only, like, three weeks at
00:04:06.100 Speaker 2 first from the time they announced the contest to the deadline. Uh, and then, of
00:04:10.740 Speaker 2 course, they extended it by two weeks, so I finished quite a bit earlier than I, um,
00:04:15.280 Speaker 2 expected, uh, with time to spare. But, uh, yeah, I'm really proud of myself for
00:04:20.140 Speaker 2 accomplishing that and really ha- happy with how it turned out. Um, yeah, and then
00:04:25.340 Speaker 2 on the... I think I've been more, you know, really in the zone with more, like, work
00:04:31.280 Speaker 2 in the world. [chuckles] Uh, and I have been doing, you know, my inner practices as
00:04:36.260 Speaker 2 well, but it-- I just haven't ha- been having very big experiences recently. But as
00:04:40.900 Speaker 2 you were talking, you know, I'm always like, this is kind of a pl- the place where I
00:04:44.060 Speaker 2 sort of check in a little bit, and I, I had, did have a couple interesting
00:04:46.620 Speaker 2 experiences recently. One was... Yeah, I don't know. I've sh- I've shared about
00:04:52.340 Speaker 2 my perceiving that I'm connecting with the grays through meditation,
00:04:58.600 Speaker 2 and, uh, it's interesting 'cause, like, I'll sit and, like, I woke up the other
00:05:02.840 Speaker 2 night, like 3:00 a.m., was meditating a bit, and I'm feeling around for, like,
00:05:07.360 Speaker 2 different beings that I've, like, relate to, you know? My higher self or
00:05:13.260 Speaker 2 my ancestors. But then the moment I begin to think about, like, kind of br- draw my
00:05:17.980 Speaker 2 awareness to, like, the image of this, like, a gray alien, then my whole body lights
00:05:22.660 Speaker 2 with, like, energy, like pinging sort of, like, vibration. Um,
00:05:29.300 Speaker 2 I don't really know what to make of that. It's not like I have any clear, like,
00:05:31.580 Speaker 2 messages coming through. It's just kinda like...
00:05:35.220 Speaker 2 It's sh- yeah. It's just, like, this sort of, uh, presence felt or something. And
00:05:40.520 Speaker 2 then it happened again last night. I was listening to a medi- like, guided
00:05:43.300 Speaker 2 meditation trying to fall back asleep, and I just randomly had the thought, like,
00:05:47.640 Speaker 2 "Maybe the gray aliens are the same as the mantis beings 'cause they have those big
00:05:52.020 Speaker 2 eyes. Maybe they're actually insectoid beings or something." And then I got this
00:05:55.180 Speaker 2 ping, [chuckles] like, this energy. Uh-
00:06:03.440 Speaker 2 No, that's-- I mean, it's just like, uh, somatic. It's really somatic. But it's kind
00:06:07.820 Speaker 2 of like a very alive feeling.
00:06:12.020 Speaker 2 Oh, that's my, that's my report, my weirdness report. [chuckles]
00:06:16.220 Speaker 1 Somebody's pinging you.
00:06:17.560 Speaker 2 Somebody's pinging me.
00:06:18.840 Speaker 1 It'll lead somewhere.
00:06:19.320 Speaker 2 I don't know if they're aliens, but, uh, it's, it's interesting to think about that.
00:06:22.920 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:06:24.140 Speaker 1 Probably. Anyone-
00:06:25.400 Speaker 2 Probably.
00:06:25.760 Speaker 1 But a human being is an alien, technically, right?
00:06:27.880 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:06:28.320 Speaker 1 I mean, are not from Earth. That's probably gonna be most people.
00:06:31.780 Speaker 2 [chuckles] Cool. So yeah, um, yeah, I
00:06:37.780 Speaker 2 would like to just, like dive in. So this is Reality 102. Um, where do we begin?
00:06:45.340 Speaker 1 So we begin the literal day after the C experience,
00:06:51.260 Speaker 1 which was that three-part series that we just did. So I mean, that night, I know
00:06:55.800 Speaker 1 stuff's gonna go down. Anytime there's like some big breakthrough, this seems to
00:07:00.400 Speaker 1 happen. When I opened Mindsight, um, when I've had other similar extreme experiences
00:07:05.700 Speaker 1 or revelations, and those things are often preceded by moments of profound personal
00:07:10.980 Speaker 1 growth, overcoming big problems, forgiving somebody. It could be something huge,
00:07:15.460 Speaker 1 right? Or dealing with a problem you haven't dealt with for a very long time, uh,
00:07:19.260 Speaker 1 deciding or taking big action or some- on something. That, that plus intention seems
00:07:25.260 Speaker 1 to open you up for a big experience eventually, and then you have it, and then you
00:07:29.780 Speaker 1 learn something from it. And then after that, you seem to have, like, the window
00:07:33.820 Speaker 1 blown open, right? Okay. It's like a temporary effect. You can imagine there's just
00:07:37.580 Speaker 1 a lot of power in the area. There's like this almost like a, like fusion or fission
00:07:42.400 Speaker 1 or something. Like you've released... Yeah, you did the initial work, but there's
00:07:45.460 Speaker 1 like a bunch of energy here. Uh, you-- if your goal was just to split the atom,
00:07:49.260 Speaker 1 well, you did that, but now you've got this extra energy sitting around. Uh, so that
00:07:54.000 Speaker 1 gets put to use. [chuckles] And that got put to use the following day. I knew it
00:07:58.800 Speaker 1 would. I could just feel it. Just had a sense of it, and it was all tingly. Just
00:08:03.220 Speaker 1 felt electrified. Um, and I did. Uh, so this covers that experience.
00:08:09.980 Speaker 1 It started with some pretty profound and extremely vivid, um, liminal
00:08:15.880 Speaker 1 state experiences. Uh, I saw my soul sister again, and that was
00:08:21.740 Speaker 1 cool. Most of that is not relevant and, and personal, but very touching.
00:08:27.980 Speaker 1 The reason I don't cover it is because the next one, uh, is extremely
00:08:34.000 Speaker 1 profound and highly relevant to everybody else. Um, so I'm done with that, right?
00:08:39.980 Speaker 1 And I'm like, "Wow, that was crazy." I wake up in the middle of the night, and I go
00:08:44.460 Speaker 1 back to sleep. So I've already had one experience. I'm like, "Whoa, that was pretty
00:08:48.500 Speaker 1 wild." I'm having a lot of emotions, and I start to fall back asleep. And as I start
00:08:53.420 Speaker 1 to fall back asleep, I'm laying downstairs in the living room, uh, because I was
00:08:58.240 Speaker 1 having trouble sleeping, um, or falling back asleep. And I'm laying,
00:09:04.240 Speaker 1 uh, like on the floor. We've got a mat that you can sleep on. It's like a big dog
00:09:07.260 Speaker 1 bed. I'm sleeping on that thing. I'm trying to fall asleep, and just as I start to
00:09:10.800 Speaker 1 fall asleep, I notice this presence. Somebody's there. I don't see anything,
00:09:16.740 Speaker 1 but if you close your eyes and somebody stood right next to you, and you knew they
00:09:20.320 Speaker 1 were there before you closed your eyes, you would kind of feel their presence there.
00:09:23.040 Speaker 1 You know, like they're waiting there, like at your desk. Like nothing impatient.
00:09:27.160 Speaker 1 They're just kind of waiting for you to notice them, like, "I'll get to you in a
00:09:29.320 Speaker 1 second." They're waiting for you to finish what you're doing and notice them. And I
00:09:33.720 Speaker 1 can feel this presence there, and I'm like, "I know who this is. I know what that
00:09:38.660 Speaker 1 feeling is." And it's my soul mother. And she's sitting there, and as
00:09:44.380 Speaker 1 soon as I start getting some images, I know exactly what's happening. And I just
00:09:50.000 Speaker 1 start smiling, and I'm like, "This is it." I'm like, "I know what you're doing."
00:09:54.260 Speaker 1 There's never any introduction. This... I don't know why. I-- [chuckles] Nobody
00:09:59.760 Speaker 1 calls and says, "Hey, this is who it is." Like, "Oh, I'm gonna let you know."
00:10:02.960 Speaker 1 Sometimes you get a heads-up, but at least for me, it's, "We're gonna get right into
00:10:06.580 Speaker 1 it. I'm just gonna start teaching."
00:10:07.460 Speaker 2 No preamble, "How you doing, Steven?" [chuckles]
00:10:09.940 Speaker 1 Nope. Well, you've noticed me, and you've put your attention on me, so that must
00:10:13.060 Speaker 1 count as picking up the phone. No, she just starts by showing me, uh, a visual of a
00:10:19.060 Speaker 1 tree frog drawn right into my imagination. Imagine you're just laying there with
00:10:22.320 Speaker 1 your eyes closed, you have that sensation, and then suddenly you have really clear
00:10:26.060 Speaker 1 imaginary visuals of a tree frog just sitting there in the blackness. I'm like,
00:10:29.380 Speaker 1 "Okay, that's weird." As if you were doing it yourself, like, really well. You're
00:10:32.840 Speaker 1 having a good day. I'm like, "But you're not doing anything. You're not even
00:10:35.600 Speaker 1 trying." It's just there. It's hopping around, jumping on stuff, jumping on me,
00:10:39.740 Speaker 1 acting all cute. And I, I start to-- And then she starts asking me questions. Now I
00:10:45.580 Speaker 1 get the verbal thoughts, right? And these are popping in, too. I'm not trying. If
00:10:49.160 Speaker 1 you were just chilling, looking at your, on your back porch, looking out at the
00:10:52.300 Speaker 1 horizon, and suddenly you just started having thoughts of somebody talking to you,
00:10:56.300 Speaker 1 that is exactly what this feels like. It's very strong. You don't have to try at
00:11:00.260 Speaker 1 all. It's just there. So this is uncommon levels of, like, quality
00:11:05.720 Speaker 1 telepathy. Like, whoa, okay. I am not having to do anything. I could just sit back
00:11:10.380 Speaker 1 and watch the show. And I'm like, "Cool." [chuckles] And I just smile because,
00:11:16.240 Speaker 1 uh, I know, and I said, "This is it. This is Reality 102. You're finally giving me
00:11:21.780 Speaker 1 this freaking follow-up lecture." It's like four and a half months later after the
00:11:25.440 Speaker 1 first one, or five months. I'm like, "I wanna know. I got so many questions," and
00:11:29.640 Speaker 1 just like, I've been asking, like, nonstop. Yo, there's like so many unanswered
00:11:33.700 Speaker 1 questions. I think we covered some of them in the intro. Okay, your en- your entire
00:11:37.440 Speaker 1 reality, we covered some of that stuff. How is there anyone else here? Why can't I
00:11:41.260 Speaker 1 do anything I want? Why am I not aware of this all the time? Why does bad stuff
00:11:45.300 Speaker 1 happen to me? All these things. Um, how does imagination work? Like, [chuckles] what
00:11:50.160 Speaker 1 is... I need to know. How do other people do stuff to me? Like, I need to know how
00:11:55.540 Speaker 1 this works. It's crickets for like four and a half months, and then suddenly just
00:12:00.680 Speaker 1 shows up. All right. And I know that's what this is going to be. Now, Reality 102 is
00:12:05.760 Speaker 1 the name I gave it. Uh, she never, like, n-named the lectures. This is just, yeah,
00:12:09.980 Speaker 1 no preamble, very matter of fact So she's-- I'm seeing this tree frog, and she
00:12:14.584 Speaker 1 starts asking me questions. And the first question is, "What do you see?" "I see a
00:12:20.484 Speaker 1 tree frog." So a lot of this is a back and forth Q&A, right? They show you
00:12:24.404 Speaker 1 something, maybe ask a few leading questions, and then the rest is up for you to
00:12:27.744 Speaker 1 start answering yourself, right? It's very hands-on, very direct. Not a lot of-- a
00:12:32.864 Speaker 1 little bit of leading, but that's about it. I say, "I see a tree frog." "Great. What
00:12:37.784 Speaker 1 is it?" I'm like, "It's me." Like, I just had this C experience, right? So I just
00:12:42.524 Speaker 1 had the experience of being my entire reality directly in waking life. So I'm like,
00:12:46.844 Speaker 1 "Okay, well, I know it's me," right? It's made out of the same stuff as me. Like,
00:12:51.084 Speaker 1 and she says, "Yes, that's correct." I'm like, "Cool. [chuckles] All right, passed
00:12:55.064 Speaker 1 that test." And then, then she says, "What about from the frog's perspective?
00:13:01.824 Speaker 1 What is there?" I'm like, "I don't know." [chuckles] If I'm my whole reality, what
00:13:07.484 Speaker 1 is it-- what is the frog experiencing? Like... And she says, "There is the exper-
00:13:12.944 Speaker 1 from your experience, you are your entire reality. From the frog's perspective, they
00:13:18.204 Speaker 1 are a frog. They are having the experience of being a frog, and there is their
00:13:22.404 Speaker 1 entire reality, and you are in it as well." Right? So you're in their world, they're
00:13:28.284 Speaker 1 in your world, assuming in this case that a frog has an individualized soul. I make
00:13:32.504 Speaker 1 no claims on whether that's true or not. This is literally just given as, like, a
00:13:35.764 Speaker 1 demonstration. She says, "Yes. So you are your own reality from your
00:13:41.444 Speaker 1 perspective. The frog is its own reality from its perspective." Direct quote,
00:13:46.524 Speaker 1 "That is all." There's nothing else. That's it.
00:13:52.504 Speaker 1 That is all. That's all there is. Like, don't overcomplicate it. That's all that
00:13:56.384 Speaker 1 exists, um, at least from the perspective of individual souls. Um, so
00:14:02.644 Speaker 1 there is, like, a little tangent, because this is my immediate question. Like, I
00:14:05.244 Speaker 1 have so many questions. So I'm, like, summarizing what my questions are, especially
00:14:09.364 Speaker 1 since this lasts, like, an hour and a half to two hours, and I have to go info dump
00:14:12.944 Speaker 1 this later, so a lot of the narrative is missing. But I ask follow-up questions
00:14:17.664 Speaker 1 about, "Okay, yeah, but, like, for everything?" And she says, "There are different
00:14:21.904 Speaker 1 kinds of constructs in consciousness. They're not all individual souls. There are
00:14:26.204 Speaker 1 other stuff out there." So you can consider, like, a, a person or probably any,
00:14:30.324 Speaker 1 like, humanoid alien person, I think they're probably all individual souls, right?
00:14:35.344 Speaker 1 This-- the rules apply to them. So if you're a human being listening to this, all
00:14:39.504 Speaker 1 these rules apply to you. There are other stuff, weird emergent stuff like grass.
00:14:44.444 Speaker 1 Like, [chuckles] it's probably part of something bigger or hive minds. Like, there's
00:14:47.464 Speaker 1 a bunch of other stuff, thought forms. Uh, these are all weird. Don't worry about
00:14:52.704 Speaker 1 those. I get a hand wave for those, basically.
00:14:54.704 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:14:55.404 Speaker 1 And here's what she says. "Okay, there are different constructs." Okay. "But
00:15:01.604 Speaker 1 these rules, everything you were just given and the rules that follow, most of the
00:15:06.304 Speaker 1 magic is in the emergent phenomena between, among, and throughout these rules, and
00:15:11.964 Speaker 1 that there are many separate lessons." And then I get a visual of, like, in these
00:15:16.004 Speaker 1 numbers, like, on a board, like 103, 104, 105, 201, 202. Like, there
00:15:21.984 Speaker 1 are countless lessons and just keeps going out, up into the thousands.
00:15:26.944 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:15:27.044 Speaker 1 There is no end to the nuance and the study and fine grain control. Suffice to say,
00:15:31.384 Speaker 1 it is all consciousness. So that most of the magic is in, like, the interplay
00:15:35.344 Speaker 1 between simpler rules and what conscious actors-
00:15:37.944 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:15:38.084 Speaker 1 ... are doing. Um, and I use the metaphor of, like, ripples in a pond. You do one
00:15:42.304 Speaker 1 ripple, it's pretty simple. Circles just go out. You add two or three or five, now
00:15:47.324 Speaker 1 the patterns you can have get really, really complex, exponentially so. So even just
00:15:52.304 Speaker 1 adding a few more fundamental rules, like what we're doing now, makes the, the space
00:15:57.564 Speaker 1 of possibility really big. Um, so she kinda puts a hand up like, "All right, chill
00:16:02.744 Speaker 1 out." Like, there's other stuff than individual souls. Like, you don't need to know
00:16:06.044 Speaker 1 about that. Uh,
00:16:09.444 Speaker 1 but the more rules you add, the more complex it gets, and they explain all the
00:16:13.304 Speaker 1 weirdness, like synchronicities and psi and UFOs and what time, all these
00:16:19.224 Speaker 1 other, like, weird phenomena. They're about-- They come from simpler rules often
00:16:24.064 Speaker 1 interacting with each other, uh, or the usage of those simpler rules. Um, so the
00:16:29.004 Speaker 1 complexity is in where these things meet. And so that's the end of the first part
00:16:34.083 Speaker 1 of, uh, like a three-part experience. It just starts with a simple visual of a frog
00:16:38.024 Speaker 1 and asking some basic questions. So here's, like, the first big rule is that every
00:16:42.484 Speaker 1 individual soul has their own entire reality, and it is all made up of them.
00:16:47.904 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:16:54.264 Speaker 2 One thing that came to mind is, have you heard this concept, Umwelt? Umwelt?
00:16:59.924 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:17:00.064 Speaker 2 Yeah. So you see the frog from your perspective and through your
00:17:05.684 Speaker 2 perceptual apparatus. Uh, the frog is perceiving you through its perceptual
00:17:10.524 Speaker 2 apparatus. So you are a completely different thing based off
00:17:16.424 Speaker 2 of what light spectrum, sound spectrum, et
00:17:22.244 Speaker 2 cetera, that the frog is tuned to. That in alone is just, like, mind-blowing to me.
00:17:28.144 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:17:29.584 Speaker 2 So that the universe is then represented... I, I mean, it also, I think, reinforces
00:17:34.184 Speaker 2 your point that, like,
00:17:36.844 Speaker 2 we humans are kind of studying the universe, breaking it down from a scientific
00:17:41.484 Speaker 2 materialist perspective, but that's all based off of human perceptual apparatus.
00:17:48.364 Speaker 2 Beginning to get into, like... Uh, and, and it's even just, it's even very recent
00:17:52.104 Speaker 2 that humans, uh, especially in scientific establishment, are beginning to
00:17:57.804 Speaker 2 accept that things besides humans are conscious. [chuckles] I mean, and
00:18:03.764 Speaker 2 that's a different framing from we're even exploring here, where it's like s-
00:18:08.104 Speaker 2 starting with the assumption that everything is consciousness and made from
00:18:10.864 Speaker 2 consciousness.
00:18:13.100 Speaker 2 The materialist framing is like consciousness is a byproduct of material reality,
00:18:18.140 Speaker 2 you know, or like a, a, an epiphenomenon or a emergent property, right? You g- you
00:18:23.220 Speaker 2 get a brain that's complex enough and it becomes conscious.
00:18:28.120 Speaker 2 So that's, that's where my mind goes. And I, and I also like this idea of like the
00:18:31.020 Speaker 2 rippling, you know? It's like, um, [clears throat] you can build very complex
00:18:35.420 Speaker 2 structures from very simple patterns.
00:18:39.120 Speaker 1 Yeah. So we're gonna introduce a few rules. Um, I think I should have mentioned at
00:18:44.560 Speaker 1 the beginning, like covering like reality 101, like the main point there was that
00:18:48.080 Speaker 1 it's all you, always. Everything you've ever interacted with, it's real, it's there,
00:18:52.960 Speaker 1 like you just said. Like I think that's the big trick is that physical reality is
00:18:56.860 Speaker 1 real. Like it's made out of atoms. The atoms are following like principles of
00:19:01.180 Speaker 1 physics to do stuff, right? And there are real patterns. It's actually there. But
00:19:05.880 Speaker 1 what we missed is that it's also made out of you. Like it is an expression of your
00:19:10.620 Speaker 1 soul. It is... You are composed of it. You are the desk as much as you are the body.
00:19:15.480 Speaker 1 Now, there are differences between those two things, um, but they're all made out of
00:19:19.920 Speaker 1 you, and everything you've ever interacted with is just you. Uh, which lead, led to
00:19:24.480 Speaker 1 some... Led to the questions that begin to get answered in that first experience is
00:19:28.720 Speaker 1 like, how is that possible? How can I be literally the entire reality if there are
00:19:33.660 Speaker 1 other people in it? Well, they have their own copy. Imagine copy pasting, and they
00:19:37.940 Speaker 1 have their own, and they're at the center of it. And, uh, yours overlap, but you're
00:19:42.740 Speaker 1 only in theirs, like you appear to be in theirs. It, it's actually just them.
00:19:47.320 Speaker 1 They're interacting with themselves, right? It's like moving around like a avatar or
00:19:51.020 Speaker 1 a puppet, a little body. Uh, so we'll get into some like follow-up questions later
00:19:56.760 Speaker 1 on, but those things are still true. Like this is an expansion of what was talked
00:20:00.840 Speaker 1 about before. Uh, she also made a point to say that this is not all there is. She
00:20:05.580 Speaker 1 did say that at the end, like you can like share this and tell people that this is
00:20:09.260 Speaker 1 true, because it is true, and it's demonstrable. It's just a fact. This is not
00:20:13.240 Speaker 1 opinion, as told to me, as relayed to me and shown to me. But it's not everything,
00:20:19.980 Speaker 1 hence the point about the emergent phenomena. There's more going on, right? There's
00:20:24.240 Speaker 1 a lot of crazy stuff going on, and this is not going to answer every question,
00:20:27.820 Speaker 1 because there's infinite complexity. The more rules you add on and the more pieces
00:20:31.320 Speaker 1 you put in here, the more complex it gets. But these models are all true. Like this
00:20:36.560 Speaker 1 is true. It's just not everything. There's more to it than this. So if you see
00:20:40.300 Speaker 1 something that doesn't comport with this, that doesn't mean that these are false. In
00:20:43.820 Speaker 1 the same way that Newtonian physics does describe things pretty well, but it doesn't
00:20:48.940 Speaker 1 cover cases that, you know, you put something near a huge gravity source, like,
00:20:53.360 Speaker 1 well, okay, why is time different? And why is it behaving differently? Uh, because
00:20:57.480 Speaker 1 space and time are connected, and that's not covered in Newtonian physics. It's
00:21:00.920 Speaker 1 correct, it's just not complete. So she's like, "Here are more correct rules, but
00:21:05.220 Speaker 1 not everything." So don't, don't lead people into believing that this is the full
00:21:08.400 Speaker 1 solution. That's not how it works. It's 102, basically. [chuckles]
00:21:17.160 Speaker 1 So I can get into the, the next experience. So this is the second of three. So this
00:21:22.360 Speaker 1 starts, so goes back to black. All right, so I've asked all these questions. I'm
00:21:26.860 Speaker 1 like, "I'm pretty excited at this point." I'm like, "Heck yeah." Like, "I got you on
00:21:30.800 Speaker 1 the line. I am gonna absolutely squeeze you for every big question I've ever had
00:21:35.600 Speaker 1 related to this and how reality works." And so I do. And at some point,
00:21:41.880 Speaker 1 I guess she just decides that there's a pause in the con- moving on to the next
00:21:44.840 Speaker 1 lesson. There ain't no agenda. Ain't no, [chuckles] nobody... We're just, we're just
00:21:49.380 Speaker 1 doing it. I assume she show, showed up with a basic intention for I'm gonna give you
00:21:53.600 Speaker 1 some probably stuff that, I don't know, aliens are learning in grade school. It's,
00:21:57.640 Speaker 1 [chuckles] but whatever. So it's not like this is precious to other people. It's
00:22:02.900 Speaker 1 precious to us. Um-
00:22:04.720 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:22:05.880 Speaker 1 I... So goes back to black. Uh, I'm closing my eyes. The experience is very similar
00:22:10.620 Speaker 1 to Reality 101. Like the whole setup is the same. I feel barely connected to my
00:22:14.940 Speaker 1 body. I'm just paying attention to my imagination.
00:22:19.100 Speaker 1 And this rat shows up. It's a big old rat in my imagination, and it's just sitting
00:22:24.160 Speaker 1 there. [chuckles] And then she asks me, like, "Why is the rat there?"
00:22:32.400 Speaker 1 Uh, I don't know. [chuckles] She's like, "Because I suggested it." Right?
00:22:38.240 Speaker 1 And she's like, she goes on to say, "The only way that anything could ever get into
00:22:42.700 Speaker 1 your reality is by suggestion." Like more or less, why can this thing be here if
00:22:47.400 Speaker 1 it's your reality? You didn't make this happen. So how did it get here? And I, "I
00:22:52.240 Speaker 1 suggested it to you." I'm like, "Okay. [chuckles] That's fascinating."
00:22:58.100 Speaker 1 Um, so
00:23:01.260 Speaker 1 we'll go on to what that means exactly later on, um, because there's like more
00:23:07.260 Speaker 1 explanation in the third one, which uses people. Um, but the gist is that this got
00:23:12.420 Speaker 1 here because I suggested it to you. You had an opening, and I pushed it in, and now
00:23:16.760 Speaker 1 it's in your reality. It's still made out of you. It's still composed of you. Like
00:23:20.840 Speaker 1 this rat in your imagination is still you. And if the rat had been there physically,
00:23:24.520 Speaker 1 that would also still be me. So then she asks, "Why do you not see it physically
00:23:30.520 Speaker 1 though? Like you're seeing this in your imagination. Like why can I not just pop a
00:23:34.560 Speaker 1 rat right onto the floor?" And I'm like, "Okay. [chuckles] I don't know."
00:23:40.780 Speaker 1 So I'm asking questions back and forth, um, and what comes out of this, you know,
00:23:45.760 Speaker 1 it's sort of confusing for me. Uh, I, I need to resolve this. And here's the answer.
00:23:51.580 Speaker 1 This is another fundamental rule. And the answer is in the term,
00:23:56.760 Speaker 1 it's the sequestered self in a bodily experience.
00:24:01.040 Speaker 1 There are sequestered layers of self, and they have different allegiances to you and
00:24:06.500 Speaker 1 different roles.
00:24:09.000 Speaker 1 So, uh, that's it. There are, there are layers to yourself. So it's not just that
00:24:14.120 Speaker 1 it's all uniform. You know, the table is the exact same thing as your body, your
00:24:18.112 Speaker 1 everything. That's obviously not true. Because in the very next scene, the rat jumps
00:24:23.412 Speaker 1 on my face and bites my face. [both chuckling] I freak out and I like push it out,
00:24:28.292 Speaker 1 like mentally. Like I've done enough defense against the dark arts at this point
00:24:31.652 Speaker 1 when this happens that like I know how to pump this thing out of my, you know,
00:24:35.232 Speaker 1 imaginary field. Like, bye. It's just like waking up from a nightmare. It feels very
00:24:39.792 Speaker 1 similar. You know how it feels to push away thoughts or emotions and stuff. It's
00:24:43.912 Speaker 1 just like that.
00:24:46.052 Speaker 1 And she asks me, "Why didn't it hurt? [chuckles] Why did that not
00:24:52.092 Speaker 1 hurt you?" And I'm like... So we get into this back and forth, and what she ends up
00:24:56.792 Speaker 1 describing is that there are different layers of self, and they have like different
00:25:01.772 Speaker 1 kinds of allegiance to you. So your body more or less obeys like your brain and your
00:25:07.252 Speaker 1 general intention to move it pretty directly, right? You can move it. If you want to
00:25:11.672 Speaker 1 move a cup or a piece of aluminum foil, that thing is
00:25:17.412 Speaker 1 like still made out of you, but it has a different kind of allegiance to you. It is
00:25:21.692 Speaker 1 like an operating system. Like, so if we use a computer metaphor, uh, you moving
00:25:27.072 Speaker 1 your body around is like moving like your World of Warcraft character, your avatar.
00:25:30.392 Speaker 1 It responds directly to your key presses. You wanna run, it runs. But you're like
00:25:35.272 Speaker 1 running a specialized program. The computer can run almost anything. But the cup or
00:25:40.612 Speaker 1 the desk or the ball or the aluminum foil is much more like operating system level.
00:25:45.892 Speaker 1 It's at a different layer. Now, these are not necessarily like well-defined, perfect
00:25:50.612 Speaker 1 layers. Uh, we didn't get into that. It may be more gradient. That was not important
00:25:54.592 Speaker 1 to the discussion, but it's a way of thinking of it. It's a, a different kind of
00:25:59.452 Speaker 1 self, part of yourself. And it's more like the operating system, and it follows
00:26:05.572 Speaker 1 different kinds of rules. It doesn't matter how much you want to be able to fly if
00:26:09.472 Speaker 1 your video game character can't fly. Now, your computer could render a game where
00:26:13.132 Speaker 1 your character can fly. It can also do Microsoft Excel. [chuckles] It can also do
00:26:18.132 Speaker 1 all sorts of things. It can manage files. Uh, but from your perspective in the game,
00:26:22.632 Speaker 1 like you can't do any of that, right? But those other parts of you are still you.
00:26:27.492 Speaker 1 You're also the operating system. You're also like the BIOS, the low-level stuff.
00:26:30.852 Speaker 1 Like you're all of that. You just didn't know it. You don't have awareness at those
00:26:35.372 Speaker 1 levels. You are generally only aware close to the center in the video game,
00:26:40.452 Speaker 1 basically, near your body, your thoughts and your emotions and stuff, imagination.
00:26:44.072 Speaker 1 Some of these things seep out into non-physical. Um, but everything is you. You just
00:26:49.492 Speaker 1 didn't realize it. And then so I have this little tangent about like what about the
00:26:54.392 Speaker 1 rubber hand experiment? Are you familiar with that?
00:26:58.932 Speaker 1 So if you take a rubber hand that looks like your, your hand and you put it in your,
00:27:03.012 Speaker 1 a s- person's, uh, sleeve, or you have them move their hand down and you put it on
00:27:08.052 Speaker 1 the desk next to their other hand, and you hit that hand with a hammer-
00:27:11.632 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:27:11.832 Speaker 1 ... people will experience pain. Uh, they don't experience the same level of pain
00:27:15.952 Speaker 1 that they would experience if it were the actual hand, and there's no physical
00:27:19.392 Speaker 1 injury. So I ask about that. I'm like, "Okay, what the heck? [chuckles] Why does
00:27:23.612 Speaker 1 that hurt you then? How does that hurt you if they're just hitting a rubber hand?"
00:27:27.952 Speaker 1 And the answer is more or less that there are different kinds of layers, and they
00:27:31.472 Speaker 1 have like different roles. So what was hurting in that scenario was more like a
00:27:36.492 Speaker 1 psychological layer that was convinced that this was your hand. And so to its
00:27:41.412 Speaker 1 ability, greatest ability, it expressed pain and fear. But there are other parts of
00:27:45.572 Speaker 1 yourself, the rubber hand itself is technically made out of you, but it, it's
00:27:50.932 Speaker 1 obeying lower level rules like physics. It's running the software of physics right
00:27:55.272 Speaker 1 now, and it doesn't give a crap about whether you feel like your hand got hurt. Not
00:27:59.312 Speaker 1 really. It's doing atoms [chuckles] and force, and it says nothing broke.
00:28:05.912 Speaker 1 And so you don't get the full experience as if your hand had actually broken and the
00:28:09.752 Speaker 1 nerves do their stuff. So you get some of it, but not all of it. This explains like
00:28:14.472 Speaker 1 some of the placebo effect. But it's weirder once you starting, start to get into
00:28:19.412 Speaker 1 psi and stuff, right? Because you really can move a piece of aluminum foil, and the
00:28:23.692 Speaker 1 reason you can do it is da, da, da, da, it's you. [chuckles] You're moving yourself,
00:28:29.772 Speaker 1 right? That's why psi works. Like that's why remote viewing works. That's why
00:28:33.332 Speaker 1 levitation works. Any of this stuff, it only works because it's all you. Like you're
00:28:38.692 Speaker 1 just moving yourself. Like big whoop. Great job. We're all so proud of you. It's so
00:28:42.752 Speaker 1 simple once you like get this model. It's like, oh, okay. So you can lean on those
00:28:48.132 Speaker 1 layers, but they, they're pretty hardcore. Uh, you know, you can tilt the pinball
00:28:53.212 Speaker 1 machine, but some part of you is locked away on running these programs that are
00:28:59.012 Speaker 1 loyal to running the rules of this part of reality, right? Somehow or another, you
00:29:04.112 Speaker 1 ended up here, whether you chose to or not, and you are running software. Part of
00:29:09.692 Speaker 1 you is like running the operating system, running the programs. Whether you agreed
00:29:13.552 Speaker 1 to it or not, it is loyal to running those programs. If you get hit by a bus, you
00:29:17.892 Speaker 1 will die, and it will dutifully render all of the pain and all of those atoms being
00:29:23.232 Speaker 1 scattered, uh, whether you want it to or not, because that part of yourself is loyal
00:29:27.792 Speaker 1 to running the software like according to the rules that you have like
00:29:33.572 Speaker 1 opted into. Um, so that's how all these like different layers like interact with
00:29:38.092 Speaker 1 each other, and it can all still be you, and things that you don't want to happen
00:29:41.172 Speaker 1 can still happen to you because some part of you does want it. You may not be aware
00:29:46.172 Speaker 1 at that level consciously, but you can be. And if you could be, you could start to
00:29:52.192 Speaker 1 change things. So at this point, you know, the rat is gone. I'm basically just
00:29:55.512 Speaker 1 asking questions, right?
00:29:59.532 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:30:02.812 Speaker 2 Well, one, first thing that's on the top of my mind is know thyself and how, how
00:30:07.192 Speaker 2 like simple that phrase is, but like from this perspective, how deep it goes.
00:30:11.332 Speaker 2 'Cause, you know, there's a perspective I'm familiar with doing like internal family
00:30:17.432 Speaker 2 systems work, you know, or just like understanding my own personality,
00:30:23.392 Speaker 2 uh- In terms of like parts, you know? There's like my inner child, there's my
00:30:28.408 Speaker 2 protector parts, there's-- And, uh, it's been really helpful for me to like engage
00:30:32.627 Speaker 2 with, uh, my own psyche and, you know, subconscious processes through that
00:30:39.048 Speaker 2 medium. But then now there's, there's also this, like this feels like, um,
00:30:45.808 Speaker 2 there is also like, uh, maybe that, that's maybe more horizontal, like within my own
00:30:50.088 Speaker 2 psyche on this life, in this life.
00:30:52.688 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:30:53.208 Speaker 2 Uh, but then there are these parts of me that are hor- like vertically
00:30:59.288 Speaker 2 o-oriented, like deeper, you know, or higher, you know? And I, I've been, been doing
00:31:04.128 Speaker 2 more practice now that, uh, revolves around like connecting with my higher self or
00:31:08.608 Speaker 2 my future self that are, that is really powerf- have been really powerful and
00:31:12.408 Speaker 2 transformative for me. Uh, but then also there's like these, these deeper parts that
00:31:17.688 Speaker 2 are more parts of myself that are then oriented towards like this reality or like,
00:31:24.788 Speaker 2 like you're saying, like these agreements I made when I'm perhaps like before I
00:31:30.508 Speaker 2 entered this reality, like to, to sort of like opt into the rules of this reality.
00:31:35.848 Speaker 2 Uh, play the game as fully as I could [chuckles] in this life, in this context.
00:31:42.488 Speaker 2 Um, so that's all very fascinating. And, and then another image that came to mind
00:31:47.128 Speaker 2 when we were talking about the rat and the frog, um,
00:31:52.188 Speaker 2 and we're, we're sort of grappling with this idea like how, how am I my whole
00:31:56.068 Speaker 2 reality? How does, how is Steven his whole reality? Uh, and how are we having this
00:32:00.628 Speaker 2 conversation now and mutually creating a reality together? How are we all in this
00:32:05.048 Speaker 2 together? Uh, and what he- what's helpful for me is understanding like this kind
00:32:09.748 Speaker 2 of-- And th- this has come through numerous, uh, [chuckles] high dose psychedelic
00:32:15.088 Speaker 2 experiences, uh, where like my ego dissolved so fully that I became,
00:32:21.488 Speaker 2 um, like this, what's this concept-- Like undifferentiated consciousness that's
00:32:27.008 Speaker 2 underneath the surface of self, you know? And, and then from that perspective, it's
00:32:31.988 Speaker 2 like, well, that's... It, it's like there's this clarity. And I talked some of the,
00:32:36.508 Speaker 2 about some of this my, in the last, uh, episode we did, uh, [chuckles] LSD journey I
00:32:41.848 Speaker 2 did in, in the middle of summer. There's this clarity that like, oh, this is how
00:32:45.808 Speaker 2 things really are. We're all just one consciousness. It's all just ultimately one
00:32:50.688 Speaker 2 consciousness. So if I hold up my hand, you know, all of these fingers are
00:32:56.568 Speaker 2 part of this one hand, you know? Uh, but somehow, and,
00:33:02.828 Speaker 2 a-and you could think of like, oh, this finger's Steven, this finger's Joshua, this
00:33:06.028 Speaker 2 finger's the frog, this finger's the rat. Uh, somehow in our current
00:33:11.828 Speaker 2 reality, we live as if we're all cut off from that source, you know, that, that
00:33:17.528 Speaker 2 fundamental awareness, primordial oneness, primordial I. You know? There's this like
00:33:23.988 Speaker 2 primordial subjective experience that is under the surface of everything, and then
00:33:28.748 Speaker 2 some- somehow like channels through atoms and bodies
00:33:34.888 Speaker 2 and eyeballs and then meets itself. [laughs] It's like looking back at itself,
00:33:41.468 Speaker 2 trying to understand itself maybe. And, uh, and maybe every one of these layers is
00:33:46.648 Speaker 2 kind of like a different, like your, the selves is kinda like meeting at a different
00:33:49.948 Speaker 2 layer.
00:33:50.568 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:33:50.708 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:33:53.068 Speaker 1 I love that metaphor. What's weird is the, at the finger level, you're-- This is,
00:33:57.588 Speaker 1 yeah, we're gonna run with this one. That is, if you take that to be your whole
00:34:01.608 Speaker 1 soul, then it is its own copy of its own reality that has free will. But
00:34:07.628 Speaker 1 it is also a part of the hand, and so you're, it, both are true. It gets so trippy.
00:34:12.788 Speaker 1 You are an agent with complete free will who is completely self-sovereign over your
00:34:17.668 Speaker 1 entire reality.
00:34:19.308 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:34:19.368 Speaker 1 You have an entire com- clean copy of it. You can do anything you want with it. It's
00:34:22.828 Speaker 1 all yours. The hand cannot make you do it. But at the same time, the hand is
00:34:27.688 Speaker 1 experiencing what you're experiencing, and it is, you are a part of it. Like you are
00:34:33.048 Speaker 1 directly a part of the whole thing. Like that is also true. It's weird that they
00:34:36.768 Speaker 1 can, it's like two sides of the same coin, like everything and nothing at the same
00:34:39.588 Speaker 1 time. They're both true. They're both equally true. It's bizarre.
00:34:45.188 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:34:45.488 Speaker 1 And cool.
00:34:45.828 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:34:46.948 Speaker 1 Kind of a good setup, honestly.
00:34:48.008 Speaker 2 We also don't really understand where our thoughts come from, why we do the things
00:34:53.148 Speaker 2 we do, what set us on our life course, and even before our life. Like what... You
00:34:58.688 Speaker 2 know? So there's all these elements that come into play when we think we're making
00:35:01.888 Speaker 2 conscious decisions, you know? I feel like I'm more conscious
00:35:07.908 Speaker 2 now than I was, you know, seven years ago before I really began to do this
00:35:13.888 Speaker 2 really deep inner work and, you know, more meditation and, uh, psychedelics and
00:35:20.008 Speaker 2 therapy and, and stuff. I'm, I'm, I know myself so much more, but then it also
00:35:25.268 Speaker 2 becomes the more I know, the less I know that I know. [chuckles] You know? Or the
00:35:30.888 Speaker 2 more questions I have, the more ignorant I'm, I realize I am.
00:35:33.628 Speaker 1 That's a good sign. That's real-- I think it's a good sign.
00:35:37.208 Speaker 2 Yeah. [chuckles] So but I thought I was conscious back then. I thought I was
00:35:42.368 Speaker 2 choosing the life I was le- leading to a, to a degree.
00:35:45.928 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:35:45.948 Speaker 2 And I think I'm conscious and aware and making active choices now, but I can only
00:35:50.568 Speaker 2 imagine, you know, as I continue this path of inner exploration and growth, um,
00:35:56.828 Speaker 2 I'll probably look back at my life now and be like, "Ha, what did I know?" [laughs]
00:36:01.828 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:36:02.108 Speaker 2 "Of my life now."
00:36:05.228 Speaker 1 So when I say awareness, like there's a lot of kinds of awareness. I mean the most
00:36:09.848 Speaker 1 powerful kind being direct awareness rather than inferred or something like that.
00:36:14.108 Speaker 1 Imagine that somebody is sliding refrigerator magnets like through a slot. You're
00:36:18.668 Speaker 1 stuck in a tiny little room, and they give you ri- two numbers, and you have to add
00:36:22.108 Speaker 1 them together and write down the answer, right? And if you get it right, you get a
00:36:25.768 Speaker 1 cookie. All right? This is cool. You are aware of the numbers that are coming in
00:36:29.588 Speaker 1 through the slot, and you are doing that math and like, "I am aware of these numbers
00:36:34.618 Speaker 1 Direct awareness outside the box would show you that there is a conveyor belt of
00:36:39.098 Speaker 1 numbers coming in, and you could just put the numbers in that you want, and you
00:36:44.018 Speaker 1 could just be all ones, and you could just get cookies for life without having to
00:36:47.358 Speaker 1 think anymore, uh, because you could control the numbers that are coming into the
00:36:50.398 Speaker 1 box now, right? Before, you had no awareness and no control
00:36:56.318 Speaker 1 over those things. You could infer it maybe. You could find patterns. You could work
00:36:59.858 Speaker 1 with the numbers to get good at addition. That's working on, like, the inner self.
00:37:04.038 Speaker 1 Psychological work, totally valid. Chemistry work, biochemistry, you need more
00:37:09.058 Speaker 1 sleep, totally valid. These are all, like... You can work within a layer of self,
00:37:13.018 Speaker 1 and it is totally appropriate to work there. You don't have to say, "I'm the entire
00:37:17.338 Speaker 1 universe, and I'm gonna fix it all at the, like, pre-atom level." Sure, you don't
00:37:22.458 Speaker 1 have to manifest everything into fixing. Like, you can also just, like, take
00:37:26.518 Speaker 1 antibiotics if you're really [chuckles] sick. It's cool. You can fight it at the,
00:37:31.358 Speaker 1 you know, molecular biology level. Those rules are valid. The world is there. It's
00:37:35.998 Speaker 1 real. Like, it's, it's not fake. It's not imagined. Which we'll get into. So in the
00:37:41.898 Speaker 1 third scene, this answers, like, a lot of follow-up questions, um, that I had, which
00:37:46.458 Speaker 1 are, like,
00:37:49.618 Speaker 1 a lot of questions around why can't you do whatever you want? Why are things
00:37:53.138 Speaker 1 happening? Why can people hurt me if I don't want them to? Like... And then it gets
00:37:58.018 Speaker 1 into how that direct awareness that I just talked about allows you to do more stuff.
00:38:03.498 Speaker 1 It's not just an awareness within a layer, which is like mastery. Like, you can be
00:38:07.538 Speaker 1 more aware of your own thoughts that are happening. That's a little bit different
00:38:10.758 Speaker 1 than, like, seeing literally where your thoughts come from and how they work, like,
00:38:15.638 Speaker 1 as if you could visualize yourself from the outside in, like, you know, like
00:38:19.138 Speaker 1 billiard balls knocking into each other. That's, like, much more mechanical. Um, so
00:38:23.998 Speaker 1 that's the kind of awareness that anyone would like to get to, is to have the
00:38:27.378 Speaker 1 ability to, like, see, work with these forces on a more intuitive level, to, like,
00:38:32.978 Speaker 1 work with them at the operating system level inside instead of World of Warcraft,
00:38:36.738 Speaker 1 right? If you could, in theory, you know, or a local game, if you could hack your
00:38:39.898 Speaker 1 game to give yourself infinite money, that would be what we're talking about.
00:38:44.218 Speaker 1 Awareness of a lower level to go in and edit the config files tells you, "I don't
00:38:48.138 Speaker 1 have to work for this anymore. I can just go cheat." Um, and that's the kind of
00:38:51.618 Speaker 1 awareness that we're looking for. Not 'cause we have to, but we want to. So I wanna
00:38:55.858 Speaker 1 do that. So I'm the one who's posing this third scenario now. I'm like, "Okay,
00:39:00.138 Speaker 1 you've just given me a whole lot of crap. Uh, [chuckles] all right. So hold up. I'm
00:39:05.438 Speaker 1 gonna ask you a bunch of questions because you're blowing my mind right now." And I
00:39:09.658 Speaker 1 say to her, "There are two people in a room." I kinda show a visual. "Person A and
00:39:13.818 Speaker 1 Person B. Why does Person A see Person B? If it's all you, like, why are they in
00:39:19.758 Speaker 1 your world at all? Like, how can they be there? How are they allowed to be there?"
00:39:23.038 Speaker 1 Um, and so you make your own reality, and I want to know why you're not forever
00:39:27.978 Speaker 1 alone. If it's all you, like, how did they get to be there? Like, I don't, I don't
00:39:31.698 Speaker 1 understand. She goes on to describe being opened or closed. So allowance or
00:39:37.638 Speaker 1 non-allowance, similar idea. And describing the principle of existence
00:39:43.558 Speaker 1 by permission. The reason that anything happens to you is because you allow it. You
00:39:48.978 Speaker 1 gotta sort of take a step back here because I've never liked the rhetoric that like,
00:39:52.598 Speaker 1 oh, you know, your kid got murdered or run over by a car because you allowed it.
00:39:56.298 Speaker 1 Like, that's not what we're talking about. Remember that if you are running a
00:40:01.078 Speaker 1 physical simulation that is reliable, uh, if your, your kid got hit by a bus or
00:40:06.498 Speaker 1 something like that, that happened for the bus driver too, most likely. You know,
00:40:10.518 Speaker 1 hand-waving, time, other weird factors. We're not talking about that right now.
00:40:14.938 Speaker 1 Generally speaking, in this case, like, that happened. It happened for them, and it
00:40:18.358 Speaker 1 happened for you. So functionally, it happened in both of your universes, right? In
00:40:22.778 Speaker 1 about the same way. Generally speaking, because the lower level is faithful to its
00:40:28.558 Speaker 1 rules, right? You didn't allow... You didn't want it to happen. But some part of you
00:40:34.638 Speaker 1 isn't paying attention to the storyline of you having a kid and a body and all that.
00:40:38.398 Speaker 1 All it's, it's... You can call it dumber, but it's not dumb. It's just following the
00:40:41.818 Speaker 1 rules. I'm a cup. I'm being a cup. I'm doing gravity like you told me to. I'm doing
00:40:47.058 Speaker 1 physics like you told me to. Like, and you're not even aware. But if you
00:40:52.998 Speaker 1 were able to be ala- aware on those lower levels, then you could directly change
00:40:58.538 Speaker 1 what you allow or not allow. And so this whole principle, the nice part is you can
00:41:04.278 Speaker 1 actually influence those levels even if you can't do whatever you want. Like,
00:41:08.138 Speaker 1 physical reality is slow. It's like at the end of a pipeline. So my understanding of
00:41:12.718 Speaker 1 it is that imagination is always also real. It's just a different space with
00:41:16.738 Speaker 1 different properties. It's yours, also part of your reality. But it's like a kinda
00:41:20.738 Speaker 1 temporary, like maybe play space, right? Stuff is ephemeral. It's light. Um, you can
00:41:25.758 Speaker 1 play with ideas. But there's like a pipeline from imagination to physical reality,
00:41:31.918 Speaker 1 and this explains like how manifestation works is that you can imagine by creating
00:41:36.718 Speaker 1 things. And so here's the follow-up principle.
00:41:40.838 Speaker 1 The idea is that there is only opening and closing, right? You're either closed to
00:41:44.958 Speaker 1 an aspect of reality. I am closed to, you know, believing something can
00:41:50.778 Speaker 1 happen to me or not, right? So take it to the level of manifestation where it makes
00:41:54.498 Speaker 1 a little more sense for most people. I really, really want, you know, to get this
00:41:58.698 Speaker 1 job offer, right? You are open to that or you're closed to it. You don't believe
00:42:03.758 Speaker 1 you're gonna get it. You're leaning on the probability space, basically. You're
00:42:07.678 Speaker 1 leaning on the actual, like, things that can happen to you. You're tilting the, the
00:42:11.658 Speaker 1 odds, uh, so to speak. I couldn't say that it's chance, but you're bringing it into
00:42:16.558 Speaker 1 existence through your beliefs and through imagination. Like, you're fueling this
00:42:19.758 Speaker 1 thing. And that is because you can actually lean on these layers, but it's a little
00:42:24.758 Speaker 1 slower because the physical world's kinda heavy. It's got momentum. These rules are
00:42:28.998 Speaker 1 kinda rigid. But it's just you. So there's a loophole. The loophole is it's just
00:42:33.538 Speaker 1 you, and it does respond a little bit. to your intention, right? So you can't have
00:42:38.826 Speaker 1 whatever you want. I can't just make a block of gold appear right away 'cause I'm
00:42:41.926 Speaker 1 not at the level of direct awareness where I can just control atoms because I, I am
00:42:45.806 Speaker 1 them. Uh, you would control them like you move your hand. If somebody-- If you lived
00:42:49.866 Speaker 1 in a world where people had arms but didn't know how to use them, and you were just
00:42:52.506 Speaker 1 waving your arms around, "You're all finger rich. Look at me," they'd be like, "How
00:42:56.186 Speaker 1 the hell do you do that? Those things don't do anything." And you're like, "I don't
00:42:59.606 Speaker 1 know. I just move them." Like, it would be like that if you had direct control over,
00:43:04.526 Speaker 1 like, physical matter. You would just be able to move it intuitively. You would make
00:43:08.186 Speaker 1 it do what you want in the same way you can make a block of gold appear in your
00:43:11.106 Speaker 1 imagination. Is it hard? No, it's super easy. You're just like, "Gold. There it is."
00:43:15.986 Speaker 1 Like, you would be able to do that too if you had this level of direct awareness.
00:43:21.646 Speaker 1 And the things that happen to you happen because you're open to them, whether you
00:43:26.186 Speaker 1 know it or not, and that's at every level, psychological, emotional. Like, all these
00:43:30.966 Speaker 1 different pieces of yourself are all open or closed to things. So they're--
00:43:36.966 Speaker 1 I am open to the other people walking around in my world talking to me, and so they
00:43:41.866 Speaker 1 can, right? They can talk about whatever they want. They can even punch me because
00:43:45.306 Speaker 1 there are layers of myself, psychologically, emotionally, beliefs, like physically,
00:43:50.246 Speaker 1 the physical part of the world, that are-- that expect other people to be able to
00:43:54.446 Speaker 1 walk around and be here and do stuff, including even hurt me. And so all of these
00:43:58.366 Speaker 1 things, it's like an open port, or it's like an open aperture. Something can come
00:44:03.586 Speaker 1 through. Can, you know, I get this job offer or not is dependent on whether
00:44:09.546 Speaker 1 some or all of my parts of self want it-
00:44:13.466 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:44:13.526 Speaker 1 ... even for this to be possible or not. So I'll pause there because there are
00:44:17.606 Speaker 1 other-- There's like a follow-up idea, uh-
00:44:20.146 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah
00:44:20.466 Speaker 1 ... at this point. But I wanna see if you got anything.
00:44:22.786 Speaker 2 I got some notes. [chuckles] Yeah, this is all interesting. Um,
00:44:28.826 Speaker 2 hmm, where to start?
00:44:33.306 Speaker 2 Um, have you heard of the river Lethe, Lethe, Lethe, Lethe?
00:44:38.426 Speaker 2 It's like this idea, or it's-- I think it's the--
00:44:43.826 Speaker 2 We-- In Greek mythology, I'll have to, I'll have to check this, and people are
00:44:47.345 Speaker 2 probably like, "Oh, he's getting it totally wrong." But, uh, there's this idea that
00:44:50.426 Speaker 2 when we come into this life, we drink from the river Lethe, and it's the river of
00:44:54.146 Speaker 2 forgetting. And so we forget, you know, our broader awareness, you know, the
00:44:59.706 Speaker 2 awareness that, uh, persists across lifetimes, uh,
00:45:05.686 Speaker 2 in order to come into this reality and be completely embedded within this reality,
00:45:10.706 Speaker 2 comp- to completely be a, um, a player in this, uh, reality,
00:45:17.226 Speaker 2 this physical instantiation. Um, and
00:45:23.466 Speaker 2 some people remember their past lives. You know, some people-- There's quite
00:45:29.706 Speaker 2 well documented-- Uh, it's, it's, it's very well documented that, um,
00:45:36.186 Speaker 2 many children can remember past life experiences. Um,
00:45:41.506 Speaker 2 but it would just be so confusing, right? 'Cause we're-- Uh, this life is already so
00:45:46.446 Speaker 2 full, and this, uh, perceptual apparatus
00:45:52.946 Speaker 2 already so, [chuckles] uh, focused on this level of reality that to
00:45:59.306 Speaker 2 put other information in would just totally, like-- It'd just be confusing. You'd
00:46:04.166 Speaker 2 probably have a psychotic episode. It'd be hard to, like, really integrate a self
00:46:08.006 Speaker 2 that is so expansive while we're remaining focused on this, in this plane during
00:46:13.606 Speaker 2 this period of time. Uh, so that's one thought that came up, uh,
00:46:19.486 Speaker 2 why we might not remember that we made certain decisions. Uh, and then
00:46:25.326 Speaker 2 a-also, like it's-- The, uh, uh, the reincarnation framework really help, helps me
00:46:31.006 Speaker 2 understand some of these thing, these things as well. And like, you know, and karma
00:46:36.486 Speaker 2 and things like that, like why certain things happen to us or why, you know, some
00:46:40.906 Speaker 2 certain patterns k- seem to keep repeating. Uh, and it's because there's a
00:46:46.646 Speaker 2 certain reason that we were born or that we chose to be born into this life, uh,
00:46:52.946 Speaker 2 to learn certain things, to experience certain things. Um, and-- Or to have just,
00:46:59.026 Speaker 2 yeah, just have certain kinds of experiences to enhance our soul, to deepen our, you
00:47:03.286 Speaker 2 know, that, that, that wellspring that we're s- that we're coming from,
00:47:09.246 Speaker 2 um, the deeper soul, the deeper self, I guess.
00:47:13.046 Speaker 2 And, uh, and then when we die, you know, we remember. You know? [chuckles] It's like
00:47:17.546 Speaker 2 an ego death, like in psychedelic experiences. Um, I often have this experience
00:47:22.846 Speaker 2 like, of like, you know, my ego dissolving, maybe like a deeper sense of my
00:47:28.866 Speaker 2 physical body, but there's like this energetic, you know, sort of awareness that
00:47:32.986 Speaker 2 comes online. And it's like, uh, just this really expansive state. And it's like,
00:47:38.726 Speaker 2 "Oh, this is who I am. Why do I keep forgetting?" But then when the medicine wears
00:47:43.946 Speaker 2 off and I congeal back into this, uh, the self and, uh,
00:47:50.786 Speaker 2 and I forget. You know, I can, I can remember snippets or I remember, like, I can
00:47:54.646 Speaker 2 describe what it was like, but I'm not in it. You know, if I was, if I had my, um,
00:48:00.526 Speaker 2 apertures fully open all the time like that, I would not be functional. You know?
00:48:06.446 Speaker 2 Like, it's a-- I wouldn't be able to cross a street or make my breakfast, you know?
00:48:12.066 Speaker 2 [chuckles] Like, take a shower, like do all the, it's, this-- I definitely wouldn't
00:48:15.926 Speaker 2 be able to take care of my kids [chuckles] if I was always in that state. Um,
00:48:22.246 Speaker 2 so that's where my mind goes with some of that stuff. And then I'll, and then
00:48:24.766 Speaker 2 another thing...
00:48:27.066 Speaker 2 Yeah, it would also, it would, like, I, I think it would be really cool to be able
00:48:30.766 Speaker 2 to just be like, [snaps finger] bar of gold, clunk, you know? Like a, a wizard,
00:48:36.166 Speaker 2 right? Or to have these kinda like-- I, I mean, I've, I've always been fascinated
00:48:39.626 Speaker 2 with the yogic superpowers, the siddhis. And, uh, you know, like to fly, and there's
00:48:45.402 Speaker 2 like, there's just stories of like really incredible things that people who have
00:48:49.742 Speaker 2 been, you know, practicing knowing themselves in the yogic traditions
00:48:56.002 Speaker 2 very deeply are able to accomplish. Um,
00:49:00.502 Speaker 2 flying, shooting fire out of their hands, walking on walls, you know, and, and more,
00:49:05.282 Speaker 2 you know, telepathy, telekinesis, all these kinds of things. Uh, but imagine if like
00:49:11.202 Speaker 2 a two-year-old could do that. [laughs]
00:49:14.562 Speaker 1 Imagine.
00:49:14.962 Speaker 2 You know, or like, or just any, uh, everyone, like our reality would just be totally
00:49:19.022 Speaker 2 ca- total chaos and wouldn't, we wouldn't be able to live and work together at all.
00:49:24.002 Speaker 2 So there has to be like, there has to be something, you know? Like
00:49:28.682 Speaker 2 maybe collectively we're evolving towards a place where we have more of those
00:49:34.482 Speaker 2 capacities, uh,
00:49:37.762 Speaker 2 as like a baseline. But, uh, it takes time and evolution and
00:49:43.942 Speaker 2 maturity to get to the point where we can all kind of like live in a reality that is
00:49:48.702 Speaker 2 so malleable like that.
00:49:52.022 Speaker 1 Dude, you hit the nail on the head, uh, 'cause that's my understanding as well. So
00:49:56.022 Speaker 1 this is not relayed to me, but like, uh, it just follows, right? Uh, this is just
00:50:00.882 Speaker 1 inference. Like what a beautiful design. Like this isn't a prison. You're not able
00:50:05.542 Speaker 1 to not make a block of gold or food for your starving child appear because, you
00:50:09.422 Speaker 1 know, the, this sort of living conscious universe doesn't care. It's because
00:50:15.502 Speaker 1 there are implications to being able to do that. Like if everyone believed that, you
00:50:20.222 Speaker 1 know, 2020, '12, the world's gonna blow up, it would literally blow up. Like if
00:50:24.402 Speaker 1 everyone believes this virus is gonna kill everyone, it's gonna kill everyone. Like
00:50:27.782 Speaker 1 there are downsides to having malleable control-
00:50:31.102 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:50:31.122 Speaker 1 ... over your reality if you don't know what you're doing. You are like a
00:50:34.522 Speaker 1 two-year-old with like immense power. Like that could be bad unless you were at a
00:50:40.282 Speaker 1 degree of like control and like wisdom and like care to like not
00:50:46.142 Speaker 1 destroy yourself and not understand what was happening to you. Like in the same way
00:50:49.382 Speaker 1 you don't get, let children drive cars, not because we don't like kids or we don't
00:50:54.342 Speaker 1 like them to go fast, but because we don't want them to destroy things and hurt
00:50:57.382 Speaker 1 themselves. It's not-
00:50:58.182 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:50:58.282 Speaker 1 ... kind to let them do that. Or you don't, you put a baby gate on the stairs, not
00:51:02.882 Speaker 1 because stairs aren't useful, uh, and we don't want babies to have stairs, but
00:51:06.982 Speaker 1 because it wouldn't be good. They would hurt themselves and others. Like it, it's
00:51:12.042 Speaker 1 not good. So it's, my, my feeling is that obviously this looks like a progression
00:51:17.462 Speaker 1 system. Like this is why being kind to others and like resolving your problems, stop
00:51:22.942 Speaker 1 judging, like that is why you get more power. It's because you're just by like an
00:51:28.062 Speaker 1 inherent design, at least of our portion of reality space, the more responsible you
00:51:34.102 Speaker 1 are, the more power and awareness you can have, right? It just follows, right? We
00:51:38.342 Speaker 1 know you're probably gonna be a good actor with it, right? But you're also gonna be
00:51:41.942 Speaker 1 with other people who have the same level of power, right? So if I want to make a
00:51:47.622 Speaker 1 block of uranium appear, that's gonna kill everyone in the room, uh, at some point.
00:51:52.922 Speaker 1 But if everyone else in the room is also aware that they're immortal and they can't
00:51:56.642 Speaker 1 die and can control their own reality, they just snap it away and go, "What the hell
00:52:00.002 Speaker 1 are you doing, dude? What was that for?" [chuckles] Right? It, but it's a big deal
00:52:04.582 Speaker 1 if everyone else in the room can't do that. Now you're a god and you're a tyrant,
00:52:08.602 Speaker 1 and you're killing people. Like there's a big difference, right? You can't be
00:52:12.482 Speaker 1 playing at that level because the obvious consequence is you'll wreck stuff,
00:52:15.782 Speaker 1 including yourself. So it's gotta be doled out, uh, commiserate with not hurting
00:52:21.742 Speaker 1 yourself, uh, and others, like as you're ready for it.
00:52:25.342 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:52:25.482 Speaker 1 And so the awareness precedes control. But this explains the Siddhi superpowers that
00:52:30.342 Speaker 1 you just described, and how do they talk about doing it in like the Yoga Sutras?
00:52:33.962 Speaker 1 Like you basically just stare at something or a concept long enough that you realize
00:52:38.782 Speaker 1 that you are it, and then you forget that there's any difference between you, and
00:52:42.662 Speaker 1 then somehow you just get direct control over it intuitively and easily. It just
00:52:47.242 Speaker 1 happens. Like you can just do it in the same way you move your arm. You can do stuff
00:52:51.162 Speaker 1 now because they just like pierced it. It's like, and why can they do that? Because
00:52:55.982 Speaker 1 it's also just them. Uh, they've sort of hacked another layer without
00:53:01.582 Speaker 1 realizing what they were doing necessarily. They have words for it, and they, it's
00:53:05.262 Speaker 1 kind of similar. They were close, but this is a more like concise model for how that
00:53:10.762 Speaker 1 works, is they're, they're piercing through another layer and directly controlling
00:53:14.402 Speaker 1 it like you control your arm, because it's just you. There is no difference, and
00:53:17.902 Speaker 1 that's why you can do those things is you can kind of like brute force it, right? If
00:53:22.002 Speaker 1 you're determined enough, even while you're still here. It's not-- All rules are
00:53:26.682 Speaker 1 soft rules. It is your reality. Uh, like there's only a few hard rules, and that's
00:53:31.122 Speaker 1 one of them. So you can, to an extent, break the game. Uh, I don't know what
00:53:36.702 Speaker 1 happens. I think when enough people start doing that, I think it changes the game. I
00:53:40.622 Speaker 1 think you end up like-
00:53:42.942 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm
00:53:43.062 Speaker 1 ... being moved out, right? I think we're seeing that now. Uh, you can see a bunch
00:53:46.842 Speaker 1 of psi powers and like UFO phenomena. Weird stuff is happening. Like it's-
00:53:51.342 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:53:51.542 Speaker 1 ... the veil feels a little thin.
00:53:53.322 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:53:53.602 Speaker 1 I think that's because more people are doing this. Like it collectively affects us
00:53:56.942 Speaker 1 all. Like you ki- you all kind of get upgraded more or less to a degree as a group,
00:54:01.722 Speaker 1 'cause we're all connected. So I think that that's what's happening. That's my
00:54:05.322 Speaker 1 inference, right? There's a little bit more to this direct experience, but I mean,
00:54:10.462 Speaker 1 that's what I would follow up with. Like that was what I got out of it.
00:54:14.902 Speaker 2 Uh, that's, that's a great setup for this curveball question I was gonna throw you,
00:54:19.402 Speaker 2 um, which is this, 'cause you mentioned that imagination is a space, and now
00:54:24.822 Speaker 2 physical real- and physical reality is its own kind of space. But as these abilities
00:54:29.742 Speaker 2 develop more, and as more and more people begin to develop them, then the physical
00:54:34.122 Speaker 2 reality begins to look more like imagination, you know? So is it like we're all,
00:54:39.742 Speaker 2 we're just in these, this nested reality where like what was once imagination was at
00:54:44.842 Speaker 2 some p- point in the very, very distant past a physical layer, and maybe there was
00:54:49.442 Speaker 2 an imagination
00:54:53.892 Speaker 1 So they are not separate. There is no wall between your imagination and physical
00:54:59.052 Speaker 1 reality. It's a continuum.
00:55:01.132 Speaker 2 Okay.
00:55:01.912 Speaker 1 Um, but yeah, and so in other places that are non-physical, they're much closer to
00:55:06.692 Speaker 1 the imagination space, right? It's very fluid, and it acts like that. But that stuff
00:55:10.132 Speaker 1 is real, yo. Like, it's a table. It's a table as much as it is a table in the
00:55:14.512 Speaker 1 physical world. It's just like, it's fast and loose, baby. You can make it a snake
00:55:17.832 Speaker 1 now. Now it's a snake. [chuckles] You can do whatever you want. There's still atoms,
00:55:22.672 Speaker 1 and there's still rules, but even those are malleable too. So this is, like, at
00:55:27.432 Speaker 1 another end of a spectrum for stability and, like, enforcement. But ultimately, it
00:55:32.112 Speaker 1 is the same thing. There is no disconnection. Like, there's a smooth, uh, space
00:55:36.412 Speaker 1 between them. That is a great segue because that-- This is, like, the last point,
00:55:40.592 Speaker 1 which is, like, opening and closing. Like, closing is not bad. Closing to an idea
00:55:46.072 Speaker 1 is, is good. Like, I wanna be closed to, like, entering abusive, like, relationships
00:55:50.832 Speaker 1 when I'm looking for a new partner, right? That makes it, like, extremely unlikely
00:55:55.272 Speaker 1 to happen. And if you had complete control over your reality because you were, you
00:56:00.632 Speaker 1 know, some hyper-advanced consciousness, then you could literally make it
00:56:04.152 Speaker 1 impossible, uh, for an abusive person to enter your life. They just never would.
00:56:08.952 Speaker 1 Just events would conspire, synchronicity, to make sure it never happens. I--
00:56:13.752 Speaker 1 Because you're completely closed to it. Um, so you can be partially open or closed
00:56:17.712 Speaker 1 to different aspects of things. And being closed to stuff isn't bad. And what was
00:56:21.832 Speaker 1 described to me is that it allows you to create. So you close to create on your own.
00:56:27.352 Speaker 1 Like, if I'm closed off to something, now I have a blank canvas with which to
00:56:31.252 Speaker 1 create. Um, uh, so I'm closing off to the other people pouring their
00:56:37.072 Speaker 1 ideas, thoughts through culture, through peer pressure, through, uh, literal thought
00:56:42.232 Speaker 1 fields or emotional fields or whatever, right? I'm closing off to that so that I can
00:56:46.432 Speaker 1 create my own stuff from whole cloth, right? Uh, that's what it allows you... When
00:56:52.312 Speaker 1 you close to things, now you can create. But when you're open, you're allowing other
00:56:56.692 Speaker 1 people to pour in their creations, right? Writing on your canvas, basically, is what
00:57:00.851 Speaker 1 they're doing, and that's how it works. So it's this push-pull. That's all there is,
00:57:04.172 Speaker 1 is opening and closing. Like, all of the reality exists by permission at these
00:57:07.732 Speaker 1 different layers. Whether or not you are aware that you are these other pieces,
00:57:12.092 Speaker 1 they're still there, and they're still doing their job. They don't requi- Like, your
00:57:15.412 Speaker 1 body doesn't require your conscious awareness to pump blood. It just does it. It
00:57:19.832 Speaker 1 kind of does it whether you want it to or not. Like, it's like that. Uh, similar
00:57:24.752 Speaker 1 idea, but that extends well beyond your physical body into everything. And if you
00:57:28.992 Speaker 1 knew how, just by being open or closed with just intention, literally just your
00:57:33.672 Speaker 1 beliefs, your intentions, your thoughts, your emotions, you could change anything
00:57:37.772 Speaker 1 that happens. And I mean, this is the, like, the real magic is that this is why
00:57:42.292 Speaker 1 manifestation and attention are so important, is they are like the lever by which
00:57:46.532 Speaker 1 you can start to pry this stuff open. Uh, because you can intend to change. You can
00:57:51.532 Speaker 1 intend to have more ability and more awareness. You can intend to be a better
00:57:55.112 Speaker 1 person. [chuckles] You can... That becomes a lever that gives you a bigger lever
00:57:59.132 Speaker 1 that creates a multiplicative effect, which is how consciousness development can
00:58:03.772 Speaker 1 happen in a practical sense. Saying nothing about religious or spiritual, like,
00:58:07.592 Speaker 1 meanings, just like the mechanics, the metaphysical mechanics of it. You intend to
00:58:13.312 Speaker 1 have experiences. You intend to be more aware. You intend to have more direct
00:58:16.972 Speaker 1 control. You intend to be able to move a piece of tin foil. And eventually, you get
00:58:21.972 Speaker 1 good at it, and then you see it work, or you see somebody else do it, and you
00:58:24.572 Speaker 1 believe it. Or you're around each other, and it becomes more easy because they all
00:58:28.052 Speaker 1 believe it's possible.
00:58:29.112 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:58:29.332 Speaker 1 All these effects happen. Other people culturally being open to this idea makes it
00:58:33.892 Speaker 1 possible for someone on the other side of the planet who didn't realize that, it's
00:58:37.152 Speaker 1 easier for them to move the tin foil now. Uh, like, because there's a lot of forces
00:58:42.072 Speaker 1 at different layers, so you can be open or closed to different layers, and that that
00:58:46.232 Speaker 1 is what controls what happens. Um, and so whether you know it or not, you, these--
00:58:52.412 Speaker 1 it's all you in different pieces. And whether those pieces are open, whether it's
00:58:56.472 Speaker 1 psychological or emotional or physical, if you knew how, that controls what
00:59:02.512 Speaker 1 happens or doesn't happen. And there is no consensus mechanism. This was, like, the
00:59:06.532 Speaker 1 last idea. If Person A and Person B, and then we'll just ask whatever you want.
00:59:10.991 Speaker 1 Person A and Person B see an apple on the table. I fielded this question. If I want
00:59:15.312 Speaker 1 an apple to be there and I have perfect control over it, I have to explore the edge
00:59:18.052 Speaker 1 cases, man. This is like, okay, you're giving me all this crap. I'm, like, dead
00:59:21.352 Speaker 1 tired now. I'm running on fumes, but I need to know 'cause this still doesn't make
00:59:25.472 Speaker 1 sense to me. Let's say we both have perfect control over our reality. We're gurus.
00:59:29.992 Speaker 1 We get it. If I want an apple on the table and you don't want an apple on the table-
00:59:35.392 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:59:35.412 Speaker 1 ... what happens? Like, because now I can get it. Like, you're more powerful. You
00:59:39.532 Speaker 1 can make stuff happen. I can't stop you 'cause I'm less aware. Cool. That makes
00:59:43.352 Speaker 1 sense to me. But what happens when we're equally matched? Which one happens? And she
00:59:48.492 Speaker 1 responds with, quote, "There is no consensus mechanism. It is your,
00:59:54.312 Speaker 1 always your reality. You are the consensus mechanism." And so the last two sentences
00:59:58.792 Speaker 1 are paraphrased, but there is no consensus mechanism. What's the tiebreaker? There's
01:00:03.072 Speaker 1 no tiebreaker. They both happen. In their reality, there's no apple. In your
01:00:08.052 Speaker 1 reality, there is an apple. That's it. That's how it works. And I'm like, "Ugh."
01:00:14.232 Speaker 1 So this is when, like, the copy-paste, like, no, no, like, literally, you're in your
01:00:17.992 Speaker 1 own world here, buddy. It is all yours. Uh, that's when this really starts to come
01:00:22.592 Speaker 1 into play is when there's differences. Now you begin to see the incredible
01:00:26.892 Speaker 1 importance of who you associate with, what you believe, [chuckles] what you want,
01:00:31.372 Speaker 1 what you don't want, what you're afraid of. What you're afraid of creates something
01:00:35.572 Speaker 1 in the same way that wanting it does.
01:00:38.252 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:00:38.452 Speaker 1 Uh, because that's just how it works. It's a separate thing if you're familiar with
01:00:41.952 Speaker 1 the law of one or whatever. That's the law of confusion. So repelling something
01:00:46.092 Speaker 1 actually opens you up to it. So there's all these weird edge cases.
01:00:49.512 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:00:49.632 Speaker 1 The more afraid you are of something, you can-- People talk about being jinx,
01:00:52.512 Speaker 1 jinxing something or whatever. Like, this is why this happens. You're terrified of
01:00:56.572 Speaker 1 it happening, and then it happens. Like, well, you made it happen because you're
01:00:59.832 Speaker 1 feeding it with all this fear and attention and belief that it could happen to you.
01:01:03.612 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:01:03.672 Speaker 1 It's the belief that it could happen Or that it will happen to you. Not whether you
01:01:08.192 Speaker 1 want it or not that changes it. And that, that seems cruel, but once you understand
01:01:12.172 Speaker 1 that, like, okay, it's actually neutrality, complete indifference that closes you
01:01:16.692 Speaker 1 off to something. Like, "Nope, I don't believe this." Now, it's not perfect, because
01:01:22.372 Speaker 1 a car will still hit you even if you believe it will never happen. It may ma- like,
01:01:25.692 Speaker 1 make it less likely to use the psychological and emotional layers of self to believe
01:01:30.432 Speaker 1 something will never happen. You got levers on those layers, but that physics is--
01:01:35.872 Speaker 1 That car is still gonna hit you, uh, because you haven't... You can lean on the
01:01:39.792 Speaker 1 physical layer with those things. You can alter them, but it's slow. Like, that
01:01:45.032 Speaker 1 pipeline from imagination or whatever to non-physical stuff to physical, it's still
01:01:49.012 Speaker 1 real, but it's not instantaneous, and you can't just, like, change physics
01:01:54.892 Speaker 1 unless you're sufficiently strong, because those layers of self have a bigger lever,
01:01:59.852 Speaker 1 and they, they don't care what you want right now, because that's the kind of world
01:02:03.272 Speaker 1 we live in right now. They're not hard rules, right? It's just server settings.
01:02:08.032 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:02:09.372 Speaker 1 So there you have it. This is-
01:02:10.932 Speaker 2 Hmm
01:02:10.932 Speaker 1 ... more or less the end of the experience. You know, I ask some odd one-off
01:02:14.492 Speaker 1 questions about other things, but that's the, the general idea.
01:02:20.652 Speaker 2 I love your, uh, thought experiment about the two gurus. [chuckles]
01:02:25.292 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
01:02:26.292 Speaker 2 And it's like this, this battle of wills or, you know, whose, whose consciousness is
01:02:31.212 Speaker 2 stronger, and it's like, well, if they're evenly matched, then-
01:02:33.652 Speaker 1 They both win
01:02:34.812 Speaker 2 ... it, it makes me, makes me think of like the, this like multiverse theory that,
01:02:39.852 Speaker 2 um, a new universe spawns every time a choice is made or a significant
01:02:45.812 Speaker 2 choice-
01:02:46.192 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
01:02:46.712 Speaker 2 ... or so it's just like there's an infinite number of universes 'cause they're all
01:02:49.752 Speaker 2 just like constantly spawning out. So in that case, it's like, well, uh,
01:02:55.752 Speaker 2 you were stronger. You know? You were the guru who was stronger, and in that, in the
01:02:59.872 Speaker 2 universe that you continue to live off into,
01:03:03.572 Speaker 2 you're, you're victorious.
01:03:08.472 Speaker 2 But I don't know. I'm not, I'm not satisfied with that, 'cause like you, your
01:03:12.592 Speaker 2 thought experiment is like they're evenly matched. It should be like... [chuckles]
01:03:18.492 Speaker 1 So what happens? They both get-- They both win. In one-- They both feel like they
01:03:23.012 Speaker 1 won. "Ha ha, no apple. You lose." Now-
01:03:25.392 Speaker 2 But then they spawn off into univer- It's like Rick and, Rick and Morty, right? Like
01:03:28.952 Speaker 2 there's-
01:03:29.212 Speaker 1 Yes
01:03:29.212 Speaker 2 ... the Rickest Rick, right? There's a universe-
01:03:31.152 Speaker 1 Yeah
01:03:31.152 Speaker 2 ... where, uh, you know, Rick Sanchez is like the most Rick amongst all the Ricks in
01:03:36.472 Speaker 2 all the mul- the multiverse, right?
01:03:38.292 Speaker 1 You found the crack.
01:03:38.592 Speaker 2 But then you split, you split off, and your, your, your double, who's like evenly
01:03:42.972 Speaker 2 matched with you, is now in a completely different universe that you can't access.
01:03:46.752 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
01:03:48.212 Speaker 1 I wouldn't say you couldn't access. This is where it gets weird. So this question is
01:03:53.232 Speaker 1 not answered, right?
01:03:54.292 Speaker 2 Okay.
01:03:54.332 Speaker 1 So I have this follow-up question like later on once I've done some thinking on
01:03:57.912 Speaker 1 this, this exact question. Okay, so this makes sense. I-- In my world, there's no
01:04:02.092 Speaker 1 apple. In your world, there's an apple. But you're still in my world, and you
01:04:06.412 Speaker 1 definitely wanted the apple. Are you conscious, or are you now an NPC? Like what
01:04:10.812 Speaker 1 happened?
01:04:11.332 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:04:11.372 Speaker 1 Are you still here, or is it now just a puppet? Like... And are you li- how are you
01:04:16.252 Speaker 1 living in a world where there is an apple? But you won. You have complete control.
01:04:20.412 Speaker 1 So how did you end up in a world that doesn't have one? 'Cause from my perspective,
01:04:23.252 Speaker 1 you're still here. How did that happen? This is like a contradiction. It isn't
01:04:27.272 Speaker 1 explained. Now, I will say like off the record in a later experience-
01:04:30.892 Speaker 2 That's reality one thousand twelve hundred and-
01:04:32.772 Speaker 1 Yeah, this is... Remember, these are just, it doesn't explain everything
01:04:34.952 Speaker 2 ... twelve hundred and five.
01:04:35.072 Speaker 1 Now you're talking about the edge case. She told me right at the beginning like,
01:04:38.652 Speaker 1 "Listen, this doesn't cover everything. There are things that this doesn't explain.
01:04:42.332 Speaker 1 Like there's more. Like I'm giving you like the next level. There is more. The, the
01:04:46.672 Speaker 1 numbers keep going up."
01:04:48.192 Speaker 2 Okay.
01:04:48.672 Speaker 1 Just because I don't want people to have to wait. I got a hint at this.
01:04:52.112 Speaker 2 Oh.
01:04:52.452 Speaker 1 It's weird.
01:04:53.592 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:04:53.652 Speaker 1 It's weird, and it made me uncomfortable.
01:04:55.972 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:04:56.192 Speaker 1 But it's not like bad. I don't have it with high confidence though. This is high
01:05:00.552 Speaker 1 con- This was shown like in a pretty profound experience, and I have lived it and it
01:05:04.732 Speaker 1 feels true. So I personally ascribe to this. Whatever anyone else believes about
01:05:09.632 Speaker 1 whether this is true or not, I personally ascribe to it and have validated it
01:05:13.572 Speaker 1 myself. Not only was it direct and profound, but it comports with my experience and
01:05:19.332 Speaker 1 test it. This slight addendum that I am adding to address this caveat, like
01:05:25.272 Speaker 1 what the hell happens to the person who doesn't want to be in the apple universe?
01:05:29.932 Speaker 1 How is he still in my world? Like what, is he conscious? Is he a zombie now? Like
01:05:34.192 Speaker 1 what happened to him? The answer was weird, and I... It's much lower confidence.
01:05:40.292 Speaker 1 My understanding was led to believe is that they are in that world too.
01:05:47.472 Speaker 1 But they are like a fingernail. They're not feeling. Like you're s- they're
01:05:53.452 Speaker 1 sampling from the same person. Their consciousness isn't there. Everything about
01:05:57.752 Speaker 1 them, like how they would react, their intelligence, their body, everything like is
01:06:02.052 Speaker 1 being... You could say it's an NPC, like they are there. It's them. But they're not
01:06:07.592 Speaker 1 totally conscious, right? They're, it's not in their awareness in the same way that
01:06:11.332 Speaker 1 being a desk isn't in your awareness now. Um, so some part of you is like, uh, off
01:06:16.672 Speaker 1 dutifully helping other people live in the world that you didn't wanna live in as
01:06:20.232 Speaker 1 yourself, being miserable. But you're not there. So the quantum universe, the
01:06:24.992 Speaker 1 Everettian interpretation where it keeps splitting at every opportunity, I don't
01:06:29.312 Speaker 1 know, man. That could be true still. It's just that you're not in those worlds.
01:06:32.592 Speaker 1 You're not in the world where you get tortured eternally. Like who would want to?
01:06:35.952 Speaker 1 Who would wanna be there? It is happening. It's just, it's like numb. It's like it's
01:06:40.372 Speaker 1 happening, but nobody's-- The lights aren't home, on. Like nobody's home.
01:06:43.532 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:06:43.552 Speaker 1 There's a home, but no, the lights aren't on. Nobody's actually in there feeling it
01:06:47.192 Speaker 1 because you don't want to. Your consciousness is where it wants to be. Uh, that was
01:06:52.932 Speaker 1 my understanding of the follow-up, which would come a month or so after that. But I
01:06:57.132 Speaker 1 hold that with much lower confidence, and it's pretty-
01:06:59.612 Speaker 2 Yeah
01:06:59.932 Speaker 1 ... freaking weird. [chuckles]
01:07:01.852 Speaker 2 That's... Something in me like kind of rebels against that idea.
01:07:06.032 Speaker 1 I don't like it. And even as-
01:07:07.392 Speaker 2 Yeah
01:07:07.392 Speaker 1 ... I say it now, I feel bad, which means I think I have some of it wrong.
01:07:10.092 Speaker 2 'Cause then it's like all, you're like in a universe full of fingernails. Like
01:07:14.512 Speaker 2 you're full of-
01:07:15.492 Speaker 1 It doesn't make sense
01:07:16.092 Speaker 2 ... it's all your world. And, and I think it does, it contrasts with what you're,
01:07:20.860 Speaker 2 you know, the foundation you laid earlier on, you know, where we're both, you know,
01:07:24.620 Speaker 2 two fully conscious beings are in this reality together. It's like, uh, at some
01:07:30.460 Speaker 2 point something happens and then that fully conscious being splits off. It means at
01:07:35.320 Speaker 2 some point you're the only conscious being in this world. So that, that contrasts
01:07:40.660 Speaker 2 with what you're saying. Uh-
01:07:42.360 Speaker 1 Right. That would be the implications of if you can't play nice with other people-
01:07:45.680 Speaker 2 Yeah
01:07:45.780 Speaker 1 ... and they don't want you in their world and everyone has punted you out, you're
01:07:49.280 Speaker 1 living in a world of automatons, whether you realized it or not, because-
01:07:52.540 Speaker 2 Hmm
01:07:52.720 Speaker 1 ... nobody else is open to you anymore. They've all closed off to you [laughs]
01:07:57.160 Speaker 1 because you're being a bad boy or girl. And then, uh, or you're only associating
01:08:01.080 Speaker 1 with other either low awareness people who can't stop you, uh, including you, right?
01:08:05.600 Speaker 1 It doesn't mean that you're better than them. It just means that you're all just,
01:08:08.080 Speaker 1 you know-
01:08:08.360 Speaker 2 Hmm
01:08:08.440 Speaker 1 ... fighting in the mud 'cause you don't know better. Or they've left and you're no
01:08:14.260 Speaker 1 longer in their world or they're not in yours anymore. That doesn't mean it couldn't
01:08:17.460 Speaker 1 be changed or that there aren't underlying unifying layers that always make you,
01:08:21.700 Speaker 1 like, connected. That is always true. You're never totally cut off from everybody.
01:08:25.380 Speaker 1 But if you wanna be off on your own, like truly alone and closed off to everyone
01:08:28.800 Speaker 1 else, like, or close to it, you could have complete control over everything with no
01:08:33.880 Speaker 1 input from anybody else. But also you would be sock puppeting all the time.
01:08:39.280 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
01:08:39.340 Speaker 1 Right? This is the, this is the dance. You want people in your, in your server, you
01:08:42.280 Speaker 1 gotta be nice. You gotta, or you have to agree on consense- we all agree on physics,
01:08:46.440 Speaker 1 right? And that's so we can coexist with each other.
01:08:49.120 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:08:49.160 Speaker 1 You don't get to fly and shoot lasers because I, I don't either, right? That's, so
01:08:53.220 Speaker 1 it's a leveling mechanism. We adhered, we bound ourselves up by some of these rules
01:08:58.380 Speaker 1 so that we could interact with each other, even if we don't like each other. So I
01:09:02.200 Speaker 1 think there are protocols and stuff like that that bind us together and make this,
01:09:05.820 Speaker 1 in principle,
01:09:07.980 Speaker 1 you know, not really an edge case. Like, it's not as big of a deal. Uh, but I have
01:09:12.920 Speaker 1 much less confidence in this, like, explanation, and that was, like, given to me
01:09:17.720 Speaker 1 with some pretty low-grade telepathy, and I could have misunderstood it. So I don't
01:09:22.140 Speaker 1 know.
01:09:22.500 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:09:23.720 Speaker 1 But there is an answer to what happens to-
01:09:27.260 Speaker 2 Yeah
01:09:27.260 Speaker 1 ... a person, a human person to be.
01:09:28.059 Speaker 2 Maybe we'll get the follow-up, uh, an- answer at a, at a-
01:09:31.980 Speaker 1 Yeah
01:09:31.980 Speaker 2 ... future lecture. [laughs]
01:09:33.400 Speaker 1 Yeah.
01:09:33.600 Speaker 2 Just put the intention out.
01:09:35.480 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's how you do it. But anyway, that's the whole deal. That's the rules of a
01:09:38.920 Speaker 1 multiplayer reality and how we can all exist together. I, again, take with a shaker
01:09:43.040 Speaker 1 of salt what happens in these collision cases. I don't know. Uh, I have some hunches
01:09:49.020 Speaker 1 informed by some other later stuff, but it feels off, right?
01:09:53.660 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
01:09:53.680 Speaker 1 But this, you know, the original stuff is, like, I'm certain, I am
01:09:59.360 Speaker 1 personally certain about it, and I believe it's testable, and it comports with, and
01:10:03.260 Speaker 1 is totally fine with physics and chemistry. All those things are still real. It's
01:10:08.020 Speaker 1 just you. You're the chemicals that you're mixing together. [laughs] You're the
01:10:11.560 Speaker 1 body. You're also the body, but you're also the chair, the table, your spirit, your
01:10:16.180 Speaker 1 imagination, your thoughts and emotions. You're the stuff that is coming. You're all
01:10:20.740 Speaker 1 that stuff. It's all coming out of you, your soul, basically, as an expression.
01:10:25.500 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:10:26.580 Speaker 1 So that's what I learned.
01:10:29.580 Speaker 2 Cool. Well, enjoyed this conversation. This is, uh, this is some food for thought.
01:10:34.700 Speaker 2 [laughs] Fascinating.
01:10:36.540 Speaker 1 Yeah, you gotta, you gotta stop eating.
01:10:37.760 Speaker 1 [gentle music]
01:10:51.120 Speaker 2 This is Reality 101. Until next time.
01:10:55.120 Speaker 1 Nothing is impossible, you're not going to die, and everything loves you.
01:10:59.460 Speaker 1 [gentle music]