WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.060 --> 00:00:05.780
Speaker 1: [gentle music] Cosmic

2
00:00:05.900 --> 00:00:11.040
Speaker 1: consciousness, extraterrestrials and
UFOs, sacred geometry,

3
00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:17.260
Speaker 1: ancient civilizations, spiritual
connection, the quantum universe.

4
00:00:17.980 --> 00:00:23.560
Speaker 1: All of these topics and so much more
with your host Sev Talk on

5
00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:26.000
Speaker 1: Alien Spirit with Sev.

6
00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:37.000
Speaker 2: Hello. Welcome to Alien Spirit. I'm
Sev. My guest today

7
00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:42.760
Speaker 2: is Stephen Shrembeck. He's the
founder of an innovative platform called
Impossible

8
00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:48.840
Speaker 2: Laboratories, creating software that
makes being human easier. It started

9
00:00:48.900 --> 00:00:54.300
Speaker 2: three years ago with software for
people with ADHD or on the autism

10
00:00:54.460 --> 00:00:59.680
Speaker 2: spectrum, and now the platform is
focused on designing tools to develop

11
00:00:59.980 --> 00:01:05.740
Speaker 2: self-control without relying on
willpower. Stephen is a

12
00:01:05.780 --> 00:01:10.760
Speaker 2: professional software developer for
well-known companies, including Amazon and Home

13
00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:16.680
Speaker 2: Depot, and right now he's with Cox
Automotive. He has been building AI models for

14
00:01:16.740 --> 00:01:22.000
Speaker 2: 10 years, writing and producing audio
fiction, meditating, and is a UFO witness.

15
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.300
Speaker 2: Stephen's work bridges AI research
with ancient contemplative practices, pushing us

16
00:01:28.360 --> 00:01:34.220
Speaker 2: to ask the big questions. Can
machines or AI become conscious? What role does

17
00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:39.460
Speaker 2: human stillness play in the digital
future? How do UFOs and

18
00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:45.180
Speaker 2: ETs fit into the evolving story of
intelligence? Stephen invites us to

19
00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:50.920
Speaker 2: rethink what's possible and examine
what it means to be human in an age of

20
00:01:50.980 --> 00:01:56.520
Speaker 2: expanding awareness coupled with
technology. Welcome, Stephen

21
00:01:56.820 --> 00:01:57.780
Speaker 2: Shrembeck.

22
00:01:58.460 --> 00:01:59.020
Speaker 3: Hey, Sev.

23
00:01:59.820 --> 00:02:00.100
Speaker 2: Hi, Stephen.

24
00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:01.080
Speaker 3: Good to see you.

25
00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:03.320
Speaker 2: Good to see you, too.

26
00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:09.680
Speaker 3: So for the audience's benefit, we-
this is not our first time meeting, so [laughs]

27
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:10.160
Speaker 2: No.

28
00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:10.380
Speaker 3: Yeah.

29
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.760
Speaker 2: We've known each other for quite a
bit.

30
00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:15.960
Speaker 2: Couple years?

31
00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:18.040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so now.

32
00:02:18.500 --> 00:02:18.800
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

33
00:02:18.900 --> 00:02:20.020
Speaker 3: Uh, you've been with me-

34
00:02:20.020 --> 00:02:22.040
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm just trying to turn my
phone off 'cause I don't wanna get

35
00:02:22.100 --> 00:02:23.160
Speaker 2: interrupted. Okay.

36
00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:26.140
Speaker 2: All right. Let's get into-

37
00:02:26.480 --> 00:02:26.900
Speaker 3: That was great intro.

38
00:02:26.980 --> 00:02:27.480
Speaker 2: Excuse me?

39
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.140
Speaker 3: Where do you wanna start? [laughs]

40
00:02:29.220 --> 00:02:33.960
Speaker 2: Well, I wanna start just a little bit
just about you. Uh, where were you born, where

41
00:02:33.980 --> 00:02:36.880
Speaker 2: were you raised, and what were you
into as a young person?

42
00:02:39.100 --> 00:02:40.580
Speaker 3: Georgia, Georgia.

43
00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:41.740
Speaker 2: [laughs]

44
00:02:41.860 --> 00:02:44.300
Speaker 3: And I was into everything. Um-

45
00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:45.880
Speaker 2: [laughs]

46
00:02:45.880 --> 00:02:50.540
Speaker 3: ... um, I'm, I have sort of an
insatiable curiosity. I, um...

47
00:02:51.860 --> 00:02:54.740
Speaker 3: Sticking to things, you know,
historically has been a lot, much a bigger
challenge.

48
00:02:54.840 --> 00:03:00.040
Speaker 3: Not being into things has actually
been harder for me than anything else. But I

49
00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:05.500
Speaker 3: mean, growing up, anything that let
me move my mind or my body. So sports, you know,

50
00:03:05.640 --> 00:03:11.060
Speaker 3: soccer. Later on I found, uh, long
distance running and track. Uh, I was always

51
00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:16.020
Speaker 3: into playing around on the computer
and like every young boy, especially growing up

52
00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:21.920
Speaker 3: '90s, 2000s, uh, video games starting
with Nintendo Entertainment System. That

53
00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:25.440
Speaker 3: was awesome. And then of course I
wanted to start making things. I started trying
to

54
00:03:25.480 --> 00:03:29.560
Speaker 3: hack stuff together on the early
internet. Um, putting together like multiplayer

55
00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:34.840
Speaker 3: servers and customizing games and
that, that is really what led me into software

56
00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:39.540
Speaker 3: development eventually, is just I had
been, I wanted to make stuff. I wanted to do

57
00:03:39.620 --> 00:03:43.140
Speaker 3: stuff. That's where it always came
from. If something sparked my interest and I

58
00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:45.280
Speaker 3: gotta figure this out 'cause I wanna
do something with it.

59
00:03:47.620 --> 00:03:53.300
Speaker 2: Well, what made you wanna push it to
the limits to include consciousness in the

60
00:03:53.380 --> 00:03:56.340
Speaker 2: mind? Why did you wanna take it that
far?

61
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.180
Speaker 3: I wasn't doing that at nine. Um, but-

62
00:04:00.200 --> 00:04:00.720
Speaker 2: [laughs]

63
00:04:00.720 --> 00:04:06.680
Speaker 3: ... I'd say in late, in my late 20s,
uh, maybe right around 30 or so,

64
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:12.480
Speaker 3: so I'm 36, I started meditating. Um,
I started meditating much more seriously two or

65
00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:18.440
Speaker 3: three years ago. Um, my practice is
roughly an hour each morning. Um, it's

66
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.100
Speaker 3: taken a while to get to that point. I
think

67
00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:27.460
Speaker 3: there's been a couple factors.
Meditation definitely was one. Um, I would... My
mind

68
00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:31.040
Speaker 3: was just blown away by exploring
inner space. I didn't even know that you could
just

69
00:04:31.100 --> 00:04:36.860
Speaker 3: sit there. You... [laughs] I found
out reading, um, Untethered Soul, uh, that,

70
00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:40.180
Speaker 3: wait a minute, you're telling me you
can literally just sit here for two hours and

71
00:04:40.220 --> 00:04:44.880
Speaker 3: you can have an incredible experience
you've never had before? All it takes is

72
00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.320
Speaker 3: sitting down [laughs] and closing
your eyes and, you know, some basic technique. I

73
00:04:48.340 --> 00:04:53.000
Speaker 3: had no idea. And that, you know,
again, tickled the curiosity and I couldn't help

74
00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:58.200
Speaker 3: but follow it. So that leads me to
realizing there are other states of
consciousness

75
00:04:58.260 --> 00:05:03.420
Speaker 3: that are hard to explain and don't
really fit in with a materialistic, um,

76
00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:09.820
Speaker 3: we'll say standard model paradigm. It
doesn't make a lot of sense. Uh, there are big

77
00:05:09.860 --> 00:05:12.360
Speaker 3: questions that don't get answered.
You can call this the hard problem of

78
00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:17.060
Speaker 3: consciousness, which I became
familiar with, which is how does this fit? It
doesn't

79
00:05:17.080 --> 00:05:20.420
Speaker 3: make sense. How does this fit with
our 3D world? It doesn't make s- it shouldn't

80
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:25.180
Speaker 3: arise from the parts that we have.
The sum is more than the parts. It doesn't make

81
00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.400
Speaker 3: sense mechanistically. Looking at it
just from like a sort of scientific model

82
00:05:29.460 --> 00:05:34.460
Speaker 3: standpoint, it didn't make any sense.
Uh, and we couldn't answer it. So that's

83
00:05:34.520 --> 00:05:39.000
Speaker 3: fascinating. And then of course, like
you've mentioned, like so many other people,

84
00:05:39.780 --> 00:05:45.020
Speaker 3: uh, got my world sort of rocked by
UFO sighting experiences. And then that goes

85
00:05:45.080 --> 00:05:50.080
Speaker 3: from, "Oh, this is a cool experience.
I'm trying stuff out, but who really knows?"

86
00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:55.640
Speaker 3: To, "Oh, crap. Okay, I guess this is
real. [laughs] What else is real? What,

87
00:05:56.440 --> 00:05:59.920
Speaker 3: what else have I been sleeping on or
just missing?" And, uh, you know, the rest is

88
00:05:59.960 --> 00:06:04.144
Speaker 3: sort of history. I think that's a-
Familiar path to a lot of your listeners, I
would

89
00:06:04.204 --> 00:06:04.444
Speaker 3: guess

90
00:06:05.784 --> 00:06:11.784
Speaker 2: Yes. And but the thought of combining
the technology with

91
00:06:11.824 --> 00:06:16.784
Speaker 2: the consciousness. So let's, let's
talk about consciousness. What is it? I don't

92
00:06:16.844 --> 00:06:22.424
Speaker 2: even know if we can define it. Uh,
some people think it is radiated from the human.

93
00:06:22.524 --> 00:06:26.964
Speaker 2: Some people think it's a field that
you can tap into. What do you think it is?

94
00:06:28.284 --> 00:06:33.963
Speaker 3: So, I mean, a lot of people have a
lot of definitions. Uh, I'll... I can tell you
my

95
00:06:34.004 --> 00:06:39.904
Speaker 3: perspective. My perspective, um, some
of it's semantics, for sure. I don't

96
00:06:39.944 --> 00:06:44.504
Speaker 3: mean like sapience or sentience, so
the ability to think or feel or to have thoughts

97
00:06:44.584 --> 00:06:47.984
Speaker 3: or have self-awareness. That's not
what I'm talking about. Uh, those are separate

98
00:06:48.004 --> 00:06:53.844
Speaker 3: from consciousness. Consciousness is,
to me, the ability to be like something

99
00:06:53.904 --> 00:06:57.984
Speaker 3: else. To have an experience at all.
Any kind of experience is consciousness. So

100
00:06:58.004 --> 00:07:02.064
Speaker 3: there are degrees and there are
qualities to consciousness, but that is what it,
it

101
00:07:02.204 --> 00:07:07.323
Speaker 3: is in terms of definition. [laughs]
Now, where it comes from and how it works, I

102
00:07:07.364 --> 00:07:10.924
Speaker 3: have thought a lot about this. I've
done a lot more than think about it. I've... So

103
00:07:10.984 --> 00:07:16.424
Speaker 3: I've been practicing remote viewing
pretty seriously now for eight months. This is

104
00:07:16.524 --> 00:07:20.884
Speaker 3: one of the blind targets I give
myself sometimes, is asking these big questions
or

105
00:07:20.924 --> 00:07:25.044
Speaker 3: doing some of your, like, channeling
techniques to try to get answers on this, so,

106
00:07:25.744 --> 00:07:30.264
Speaker 3: and as well as doing my own thinking.
I do a lot of my own thinking, uh, on the

107
00:07:30.304 --> 00:07:34.904
Speaker 3: information given, and I think the
only real answer is it has to be fundamental.

108
00:07:35.744 --> 00:07:41.664
Speaker 3: That's not anything new. Uh, you
know, I think dualistic ideologies or idealism

109
00:07:41.724 --> 00:07:45.724
Speaker 3: sort of say the same thing, that it
is fundamental. I'm not saying it's the only

110
00:07:45.764 --> 00:07:50.944
Speaker 3: thing that's fundamental. I don't
know that. But it kind of has to preexist in
some

111
00:07:51.004 --> 00:07:56.204
Speaker 3: way, or else it's something weird
that we don't understand. If there is something

112
00:07:56.244 --> 00:08:01.664
Speaker 3: that could preexist consciousness, I
don't know. But I would echo what everyone else

113
00:08:01.724 --> 00:08:07.464
Speaker 3: sort of says from a dif- bunch of
different angles. It seems to be all

114
00:08:08.604 --> 00:08:14.564
Speaker 3: consciousness. I think it's all just
one thing. It's all just sort of made up.

115
00:08:15.424 --> 00:08:19.024
Speaker 3: But also, if everything's made up,
you know, nothing is made up. [laughs] It's...

116
00:08:19.404 --> 00:08:25.064
Speaker 3: How do you... It's, it's difficult.
It stops making sense. I think it's just what

117
00:08:25.124 --> 00:08:28.364
Speaker 3: everything is made of. Uh, that's
the, the short answer.

118
00:08:29.764 --> 00:08:34.484
Speaker 2: So everything. So there's one
consciousness that includes the trees and the
cats and

119
00:08:34.524 --> 00:08:37.524
Speaker 2: the humans and the fish. Like that?

120
00:08:39.344 --> 00:08:43.764
Speaker 3: I think it's way more complicated
than that. But yes, and, and it's taken as a

121
00:08:43.804 --> 00:08:49.444
Speaker 3: whole. There... It's all the same
stuff, and I think it does sort of subdivide and

122
00:08:49.504 --> 00:08:54.124
Speaker 3: have different perspectives. You may
consider it intentional blinders, just

123
00:08:54.204 --> 00:08:59.664
Speaker 3: intentionally looking from a more
narrow, limited viewpoint. Because

124
00:09:00.464 --> 00:09:03.704
Speaker 3: as weird as it sounds, I think there
are things you can learn and understand that

125
00:09:03.744 --> 00:09:07.104
Speaker 3: makes sense, you know, from an ant's
perspective that doesn't make sense from any

126
00:09:07.164 --> 00:09:12.104
Speaker 3: other perspective. And even if you're
all-knowing, I think that sometimes knowing

127
00:09:12.184 --> 00:09:17.764
Speaker 3: more actually teaches you less, and
that you learn more by limiting yourself. Art is

128
00:09:17.804 --> 00:09:22.124
Speaker 3: like this. You can do significantly
more with constraints on a canvas. If you have a

129
00:09:22.184 --> 00:09:26.224
Speaker 3: blank canvas and say, "Make art,"
it's pretty hard. If somebody tells... gives you

130
00:09:26.264 --> 00:09:29.584
Speaker 3: watercolors and they, they show you
some landscapes and say, "Uh, make some

131
00:09:29.604 --> 00:09:34.064
Speaker 3: landscapes, but put a twist on it,"
that's a lot easier. I think that this is a

132
00:09:34.144 --> 00:09:37.844
Speaker 3: similar sort of thing, and that's why
it is the way it is. Plus, it's more fun this

133
00:09:37.884 --> 00:09:41.264
Speaker 3: way. Who just wants to sit there,
like floating around as the only thing that

134
00:09:41.304 --> 00:09:47.084
Speaker 3: exists? So I think there are levels
of consciousness all the way up and down. Um, I

135
00:09:47.124 --> 00:09:51.764
Speaker 3: don't know how far it goes or how
it... what the rules are, but it does seem to be

136
00:09:51.804 --> 00:09:57.124
Speaker 3: an emergent phenomena that you can be
conscious at, at a specific level,

137
00:09:57.444 --> 00:10:01.604
Speaker 3: and you can be a part of a
consciousness at another level without-

138
00:10:01.904 --> 00:10:02.124
Speaker 2: Yeah

139
00:10:02.484 --> 00:10:05.804
Speaker 3: ... These are just guesses. I hold
all these models very loosely. I'm just an

140
00:10:05.864 --> 00:10:06.344
Speaker 3: explorer.

141
00:10:06.864 --> 00:10:06.884
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

142
00:10:06.924 --> 00:10:09.744
Speaker 3: I didn't answer the technology part,
but those are my sort of,

143
00:10:11.504 --> 00:10:15.964
Speaker 3: uh, beliefs so far, you know, based
on my, my own exploration and research.

144
00:10:17.424 --> 00:10:21.263
Speaker 2: Do you think self-awareness has
anything to do with consciousness? Like if your
s-

145
00:10:21.424 --> 00:10:26.284
Speaker 2: "I think, therefore I am"? Can you...
Yeah?

146
00:10:26.444 --> 00:10:31.444
Speaker 3: I think it's a quality of conscious
experience, but it doesn't have to be that way.

147
00:10:32.144 --> 00:10:37.564
Speaker 3: If you go without sleeping for three
days, um, you're a heck of a lot less

148
00:10:37.624 --> 00:10:43.104
Speaker 3: self-aware. You can be alive and not
be self-aware. Bugs are like this. Like, I

149
00:10:43.144 --> 00:10:48.584
Speaker 3: think that to some degree, even bugs
are experiencing something, but they're not

150
00:10:48.664 --> 00:10:52.464
Speaker 3: aware that they're there, that
there's a self or anything. There's nothing like
that

151
00:10:52.524 --> 00:10:52.944
Speaker 3: happening.

152
00:10:53.164 --> 00:10:53.304
Speaker 2: Well, how do you know-

153
00:10:53.344 --> 00:10:54.464
Speaker 3: And humans can experience this-

154
00:10:54.464 --> 00:10:57.584
Speaker 2: ... a bug doesn't know that it's a-
aware of itself?

155
00:10:58.084 --> 00:11:00.924
Speaker 3: We don't know. We don't know that.
But I think that every human has had the

156
00:11:00.944 --> 00:11:04.544
Speaker 3: experience of not being self-aware in
their own life, which is of course where a lot

157
00:11:04.564 --> 00:11:10.484
Speaker 3: of my technology, uh, um, attention
is focused. We've all know what

158
00:11:10.544 --> 00:11:14.604
Speaker 3: it's like to be, have the lights on
but nobody is home, right? That is essentially

159
00:11:14.664 --> 00:11:19.904
Speaker 3: lacking self-awareness. So we kinda
know what it feels like to be, like, locked on

160
00:11:19.984 --> 00:11:24.804
Speaker 3: rails but not even aware that you're
alive and what you're doing. You might have to

161
00:11:24.844 --> 00:11:28.824
Speaker 3: be pretty drugged out or super tired
or [laughs] under an immense amount of stress

162
00:11:28.884 --> 00:11:33.324
Speaker 3: or something, but we've all felt
that. So we know those states are possible to
not

163
00:11:33.364 --> 00:11:37.404
Speaker 3: be self-aware and still be conscious.
You're still there. You're just not aware that

164
00:11:37.444 --> 00:11:37.764
Speaker 3: you're there.

165
00:11:38.244 --> 00:11:42.384
Speaker 2: You're just not aware that you're
living and that you could die? I was having-

166
00:11:42.404 --> 00:11:43.004
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's possible

167
00:11:43.004 --> 00:11:48.684
Speaker 2: ... a conversation with someone who
thought that, uh, cats are not self-aware. And-

168
00:11:49.364 --> 00:11:49.524
Speaker 3: Hmm

169
00:11:49.524 --> 00:11:53.224
Speaker 2: ... I, I think they are. I think they
know that they can die. They see death. They

170
00:11:53.304 --> 00:11:58.344
Speaker 2: kill. And so because of that, because
they know that they're living and because they

171
00:11:58.404 --> 00:12:02.984
Speaker 2: know that they can die and death is
an option, that they are self-aware

172
00:12:05.812 --> 00:12:10.112
Speaker 3: I think all I'm trying to say is that
self-awareness is a quality of consciousness.

173
00:12:10.172 --> 00:12:13.392
Speaker 3: It's like an option, a checkbox. You
may or may not have it, and you may have it

174
00:12:13.452 --> 00:12:18.492
Speaker 3: conditionally. You may have it to
some degree, but not always. Are there... So I

175
00:12:18.552 --> 00:12:22.712
Speaker 3: think that what we have, and all the
qualities of consciousness, the ability to

176
00:12:22.772 --> 00:12:26.292
Speaker 3: think, the ability to be self-aware,
the ability to plan in the future and

177
00:12:26.352 --> 00:12:31.112
Speaker 3: reminisce, all of these things are,
like, qualities of consciousness that clearly

178
00:12:31.172 --> 00:12:35.472
Speaker 3: can exist because we have them. But
we also experience what it, or people who have

179
00:12:35.512 --> 00:12:40.032
Speaker 3: brain damage or various other
problems experience what it's like to not have
those

180
00:12:40.072 --> 00:12:44.072
Speaker 3: things or to have them work
differently. So I think there's a wide array of

181
00:12:44.132 --> 00:12:49.612
Speaker 3: consciousness, but at the end of the
day, everything is conscious in some way, even

182
00:12:49.692 --> 00:12:52.352
Speaker 3: if they don't aw- they're not aware
that they are. They're just-

183
00:12:52.412 --> 00:12:53.072
Speaker 2: Like a rock?

184
00:12:53.692 --> 00:12:56.832
Speaker 3: It's like watching a movie but not
even knowing you're watching a movie or that you

185
00:12:56.892 --> 00:13:02.572
Speaker 3: exist at all. Yeah, maybe even a
rock, but rocks don't really have sensory input,
so

186
00:13:03.372 --> 00:13:08.452
Speaker 3: their conscious experience would be
way different [laughs] than ours. And there's

187
00:13:08.492 --> 00:13:13.032
Speaker 3: probably not a lot going on except
maybe at, like, an aggregate level. So maybe

188
00:13:13.072 --> 00:13:18.212
Speaker 3: there is a consciousness of, like, a
mountain or a continent or a planet, and that

189
00:13:18.272 --> 00:13:22.052
Speaker 3: may be the only level that is
actually interesting. Otherwise, it's kind of
like

190
00:13:22.152 --> 00:13:26.192
Speaker 3: a... There's, on the EKG, there's
[laughs] not a lot going on there most of the

191
00:13:26.232 --> 00:13:28.332
Speaker 3: time, I would guess. But what do I
know?

192
00:13:29.092 --> 00:13:31.512
Speaker 2: Well, have you ever talked to a tree
or a rock?

193
00:13:34.532 --> 00:13:40.072
Speaker 3: I have done one meditation twice
where the focus was a tree in my

194
00:13:40.132 --> 00:13:43.832
Speaker 3: backyard. I've used this as a focus a
number of times. So you stare at a tree for

195
00:13:43.892 --> 00:13:47.672
Speaker 3: about an hour, doing nothing else
except for staring at the tree. Eventually, you

196
00:13:47.732 --> 00:13:52.312
Speaker 3: sort of lose yourself. You, your own
ego drops, and you feel a heck of a lot like a

197
00:13:52.372 --> 00:13:57.312
Speaker 3: tree. Um, this is a well-known, like,
meditative technique. You basically focus on

198
00:13:57.372 --> 00:14:02.312
Speaker 3: anything, and you, your experience
changes dramatically. What is actually
happening,

199
00:14:02.572 --> 00:14:08.132
Speaker 3: I can't say. If you listen to the
yogis, they're basically saying that you're more

200
00:14:08.152 --> 00:14:12.852
Speaker 3: or less tuning out your own conscious
experience, and now you are using a connection

201
00:14:12.892 --> 00:14:15.912
Speaker 3: to something else to experience what
that thing is experiencing.

202
00:14:16.432 --> 00:14:16.492
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

203
00:14:16.532 --> 00:14:20.792
Speaker 3: This is how telepathy is purported to
work. You're really just, like, stepping next

204
00:14:20.852 --> 00:14:25.292
Speaker 3: door, not so much taking something
out of their mind or transmitting it. You're

205
00:14:25.352 --> 00:14:29.412
Speaker 3: basically just stepping over there
for a second but keeping enough of a thread back

206
00:14:29.452 --> 00:14:33.332
Speaker 3: to yourself that you can sort of get
some information out of it. You feel what it's

207
00:14:33.392 --> 00:14:35.752
Speaker 3: like. I didn't like being a tree.

208
00:14:35.752 --> 00:14:36.232
Speaker 2: But that implies-

209
00:14:36.252 --> 00:14:37.552
Speaker 3: It's not- [laughs]

210
00:14:37.592 --> 00:14:39.252
Speaker 2: That implies a separateness.

211
00:14:41.292 --> 00:14:46.312
Speaker 3: Maybe. I'm not great at it. There is
a level of skill to this that

212
00:14:46.952 --> 00:14:50.512
Speaker 3: [laughs] ... And I have a lot of open
questions. There's definitely connection, but

213
00:14:50.552 --> 00:14:55.272
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that there's not
distance. Um, there is distance, and that's a

214
00:14:55.312 --> 00:14:58.352
Speaker 3: good thing. Otherwise, we would all
be feeling everything all the time, and that

215
00:14:58.372 --> 00:15:03.392
Speaker 3: would not be cool. So there is a
separation, but that doesn't mean there's not
some

216
00:15:03.432 --> 00:15:07.972
Speaker 3: degree of connection. I think that
there is separation by degrees, and there's a

217
00:15:08.032 --> 00:15:12.592
Speaker 3: sort of friction or barrier. Doesn't
mean that it's impassable, just not everything

218
00:15:12.632 --> 00:15:18.512
Speaker 3: is equally easy. So you can feel what
it's like to be a tree. Um, I didn't like

219
00:15:18.552 --> 00:15:24.552
Speaker 3: it. I haven't done it again. I felt
very trapped. It felt like having your feet

220
00:15:24.612 --> 00:15:28.992
Speaker 3: or legs buried into the ground up to
your hips and just being terrified that, like,

221
00:15:29.132 --> 00:15:31.632
Speaker 3: bugs could eat your toes. You can't
really move.

222
00:15:31.652 --> 00:15:32.172
Speaker 2: [laughs]

223
00:15:32.272 --> 00:15:37.392
Speaker 3: It's just... But it was very slow,
and it was very weird.

224
00:15:38.132 --> 00:15:38.412
Speaker 3: Um,

225
00:15:40.392 --> 00:15:41.292
Speaker 3: I didn't like it at all.

226
00:15:41.352 --> 00:15:41.432
Speaker 2: So what-

227
00:15:41.492 --> 00:15:42.932
Speaker 3: Assuming that's what it's like to be
a tree.

228
00:15:43.492 --> 00:15:43.572
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting.

229
00:15:43.632 --> 00:15:44.232
Speaker 3: I didn't like it.

230
00:15:45.592 --> 00:15:46.612
Speaker 2: I had a conversation-

231
00:15:46.612 --> 00:15:46.632
Speaker 3: [laughs]

232
00:15:46.652 --> 00:15:50.052
Speaker 2: ... with a tree in the redwoods in
California, and it changed my life. The

233
00:15:50.092 --> 00:15:52.372
Speaker 2: information it gave me was so
beautiful and profound.

234
00:15:52.432 --> 00:15:55.892
Speaker 3: What was that conversation? 'Cause
this wasn't a conversation. This was more like,

235
00:15:55.992 --> 00:16:00.492
Speaker 3: "I'll be in your body for a little
bit," without, like, talking. This is different.

236
00:16:00.592 --> 00:16:02.972
Speaker 2: Oh, not gaining any of its awareness?

237
00:16:03.492 --> 00:16:07.132
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't a talking. It was, "I'm
gonna be you for a little bit," or what it's

238
00:16:07.192 --> 00:16:08.692
Speaker 3: like to be you for a little bit.

239
00:16:09.712 --> 00:16:09.972
Speaker 2: Yeah.

240
00:16:11.892 --> 00:16:14.952
Speaker 3: So what was the conversation? I guess
you don't have to rehash the story if you

241
00:16:14.992 --> 00:16:15.452
Speaker 3: don't want to.

242
00:16:15.592 --> 00:16:20.252
Speaker 2: No, I can tell you. I can say it
pretty quickly. Uh, I was walking around. I
had...

243
00:16:21.032 --> 00:16:26.611
Speaker 2: We were, uh, in the redwood forest
for a few days, and so it's really high vibe.

244
00:16:26.652 --> 00:16:27.192
Speaker 2: Have you been?

245
00:16:28.612 --> 00:16:32.892
Speaker 3: I have been in redwood forests in
Washington, but I haven't been to Northern

246
00:16:32.972 --> 00:16:33.552
Speaker 3: California.

247
00:16:34.012 --> 00:16:38.912
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, did you feel the high
vibe? Like, were your ears ringing, and were you

248
00:16:38.952 --> 00:16:39.632
Speaker 2: kind of buzzy?

249
00:16:40.972 --> 00:16:41.932
Speaker 3: I felt real good.

250
00:16:41.932 --> 00:16:42.352
Speaker 2: Yes. [laughs]

251
00:16:42.412 --> 00:16:47.052
Speaker 3: I was on vacation there, like, over a
week ago. [laughs] I felt real at peace.

252
00:16:47.272 --> 00:16:47.273
Speaker 2: So-

253
00:16:47.292 --> 00:16:48.772
Speaker 3: But not, not quite that way, no.

254
00:16:49.652 --> 00:16:50.452
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. So-

255
00:16:50.472 --> 00:16:51.432
Speaker 3: But I know what you're talking about

256
00:16:52.252 --> 00:16:58.032
Speaker 2: ... so I'm walking around, and I'm
looking at this tree, and I just hear. I hear

257
00:16:58.092 --> 00:17:02.332
Speaker 2: communication coming from this tree,
and it says to me, "Look up to my highest

258
00:17:02.372 --> 00:17:08.012
Speaker 2: branches." And so my head just keeps
going up and up and up, and I'm looking up, and

259
00:17:08.072 --> 00:17:12.972
Speaker 2: it sees... And it says, "The energy
that runs through me is the same energy that

260
00:17:13.012 --> 00:17:18.172
Speaker 2: runs through you, and I don't stop
this energy. I don't say, 'No, I'm only gonna go

261
00:17:18.232 --> 00:17:23.012
Speaker 2: halfway. I'm only gonna grow halfway
and stop.' I align with this energy, and I

262
00:17:23.132 --> 00:17:28.972
Speaker 2: allow it to maximize my, my
potential." Unlike humans, who

263
00:17:29.052 --> 00:17:32.572
Speaker 2: cut it off and say, "No, I'm not
gonna be the best that I can be or the most that
I

264
00:17:32.632 --> 00:17:36.912
Speaker 2: can be." So they accept this energy,
and then they're like, "I'm done." Like a blade

265
00:17:36.952 --> 00:17:41.192
Speaker 2: of grass saying, "I'm only gonna go,
grow a quarter inch. I'm not gonna go to two

266
00:17:41.232 --> 00:17:47.012
Speaker 2: inches like all my friends." And that
was profound information for

267
00:17:47.072 --> 00:17:52.452
Speaker 2: me. And, uh, I kind of use it as a,
um,

268
00:17:53.632 --> 00:17:57.832
Speaker 2: as, like, a pep talk at times that
maybe if I'm feeling a little low or feeling a

269
00:17:57.872 --> 00:18:02.672
Speaker 2: little down, um, like, "I'm a redwood
tree, too, and I can take that energy, and I

270
00:18:02.712 --> 00:18:04.232
Speaker 2: can grow as tall as I want."

271
00:18:06.568 --> 00:18:11.348
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And also a rock talked to me
when I was in Hawaii. I picked up a rock out of

272
00:18:11.408 --> 00:18:16.108
Speaker 2: a creek, and I wanted to take it
home. And it's in my hand, and the rock says, "I

273
00:18:16.168 --> 00:18:21.168
Speaker 2: don't want to leave." I'm like, "Oh
my gosh. You're right. Why would you wanna leave

274
00:18:21.248 --> 00:18:25.308
Speaker 2: Maui to come all the way back to
Capitol Hill, Washington, DC? You're absolutely

275
00:18:25.368 --> 00:18:25.908
Speaker 2: right." [laughs]

276
00:18:25.948 --> 00:18:26.128
Speaker 3: [laughs]

277
00:18:26.248 --> 00:18:30.948
Speaker 2: So I threw it back in the creek. Not
in the same spot, but it went back. Yeah.

278
00:18:31.228 --> 00:18:32.188
Speaker 3: That's fascinating.

279
00:18:32.868 --> 00:18:32.869
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

280
00:18:32.908 --> 00:18:37.728
Speaker 3: Have you heard of, um, Veda Austin
and her work with water?

281
00:18:37.768 --> 00:18:38.148
Speaker 2: No.

282
00:18:39.688 --> 00:18:44.088
Speaker 3: Um, it's probably, uh, worth looking
at. Um, I mean, I could pull up their website.

283
00:18:44.128 --> 00:18:49.328
Speaker 3: But in, in a nutshell, she has, for
like the last 14 years or so, she's been

284
00:18:49.968 --> 00:18:53.788
Speaker 3: putting water in Petri dishes and,
you know, setting some sort of intention for 30

285
00:18:53.828 --> 00:18:57.988
Speaker 3: seconds or so and then freezing it.
And the pattern that comes out looks-

286
00:18:58.068 --> 00:18:58.069
Speaker 2: Oh

287
00:18:58.068 --> 00:19:02.988
Speaker 3: ... dramatically like artwork and
messages and answers to questions and basically
a

288
00:19:03.048 --> 00:19:07.148
Speaker 3: conversation. You know, not unlike
any of the, you know, channeling practice you,

289
00:19:07.508 --> 00:19:11.707
Speaker 3: you do, but this is physical
evidence. I love physical evidence. Most humans
do.

290
00:19:12.008 --> 00:19:12.108
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

291
00:19:12.148 --> 00:19:12.948
Speaker 3: It's very tangible.

292
00:19:13.588 --> 00:19:13.868
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

293
00:19:14.248 --> 00:19:18.768
Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's harder to doubt or
question. It's more straightforward, right? Uh,

294
00:19:19.268 --> 00:19:23.928
Speaker 3: direct evidence is awesome. So this,
her work is really cool. I've tried to

295
00:19:23.968 --> 00:19:27.768
Speaker 3: replicate some of it at home in the
past week or two. Um, I got-

296
00:19:27.808 --> 00:19:28.108
Speaker 2: That's interesting

297
00:19:28.108 --> 00:19:29.788
Speaker 3: ... more than nothing. Uh-

298
00:19:29.788 --> 00:19:29.928
Speaker 2: Oh [laughs]

299
00:19:29.928 --> 00:19:35.728
Speaker 3: ... it's pretty cool. So it works
like all of these, like, psi abilities seem

300
00:19:35.808 --> 00:19:40.648
Speaker 3: to, right? I'm just an explorer here.
Uh, whether it's, you know, tech or something

301
00:19:40.728 --> 00:19:46.688
Speaker 3: else, like, I'm just trying stuff
out. I got no ego in it. And it... The moment
you

302
00:19:46.728 --> 00:19:52.608
Speaker 3: are not confident or you are
duplicitous or you have ulterior

303
00:19:52.688 --> 00:19:58.428
Speaker 3: motives or conflicted intentions,
it's just ice. Like, there's nothing there.
The...

304
00:19:58.468 --> 00:20:04.388
Speaker 3: However, if you come at this from a
very, not... You can be skeptical, but you

305
00:20:04.428 --> 00:20:10.288
Speaker 3: have to be sort of open and positive
and curious with your skepticism. If you are

306
00:20:10.388 --> 00:20:16.248
Speaker 3: cynical, um, or combative, nothing
happens, right? So it's y-

307
00:20:16.727 --> 00:20:22.388
Speaker 3: those things are all still true. Um,
but yeah, uh, so I- I've run a couple

308
00:20:22.448 --> 00:20:27.488
Speaker 3: experiments now. It's definitely
interesting. So I just said, like, "Hello."

309
00:20:27.608 --> 00:20:31.208
Speaker 3: Basically, all I'm doing is saying
hello. Put a little tap water in there. She's
got

310
00:20:31.248 --> 00:20:34.108
Speaker 3: a basic protocol for how to do it,
and you can go look at the website if people

311
00:20:34.128 --> 00:20:39.808
Speaker 3: wanna look. It's Veda Austin. And
she's got a book, I think. If... So I froze it,

312
00:20:40.188 --> 00:20:45.348
Speaker 3: take it back out. Sure enough, I have
the picture. It's not, like, super impressive,

313
00:20:45.908 --> 00:20:49.748
Speaker 3: um, because some of it was drawn in
highlights, and I didn't have my regular camera.

314
00:20:50.788 --> 00:20:55.908
Speaker 3: But it's a very clear capital H,
capital E. There are two squiggly lines, and
then

315
00:20:55.928 --> 00:20:59.768
Speaker 3: there's no O. But, you know, I wasn't
doing the freezing technique properly, so, you

316
00:20:59.808 --> 00:21:03.868
Speaker 3: know, I'm sure it's hard to draw with
ice. What do I know? Uh, I'm like, holy crap.

317
00:21:03.868 --> 00:21:05.688
Speaker 3: [laughs] What are the chances-

318
00:21:05.728 --> 00:21:05.788
Speaker 2: You-

319
00:21:05.808 --> 00:21:09.988
Speaker 3: ... of that happening by odds against
chance? Like, that doesn't seem possible.

320
00:21:10.028 --> 00:21:13.348
Speaker 3: Like, there is pareidolia, of course.
You see patterns in everything.

321
00:21:14.488 --> 00:21:14.489
Speaker 2: Yeah.

322
00:21:14.528 --> 00:21:17.188
Speaker 3: But what are the odds of that? That's
pretty weird, right?

323
00:21:18.568 --> 00:21:24.428
Speaker 2: Oh, so you were trying to recreate
letters within the, the ice?

324
00:21:25.468 --> 00:21:29.368
Speaker 3: I was saying hello. What I pulled out
of the freezer was-

325
00:21:29.528 --> 00:21:30.068
Speaker 2: Were letters

326
00:21:30.108 --> 00:21:34.508
Speaker 3: ... capital E, capital E, two
squiggly lines, and the... I didn't really see
an O,

327
00:21:34.688 --> 00:21:39.448
Speaker 3: but, you know, maybe it's hard to
write. [laughs] And so it looked to me like a

328
00:21:39.488 --> 00:21:41.708
Speaker 3: reply. Um, but again-

329
00:21:42.248 --> 00:21:43.188
Speaker 2: That's different

330
00:21:43.228 --> 00:21:43.528
Speaker 3: ... fascinating.

331
00:21:43.608 --> 00:21:45.908
Speaker 2: I've never heard of actual letters
coming out. So-

332
00:21:46.028 --> 00:21:46.228
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah

333
00:21:46.248 --> 00:21:51.948
Speaker 2: ... this is based on the Japanese
scientist... Is his name Emoto? The one that

334
00:21:52.028 --> 00:21:52.508
Speaker 2: originally-

335
00:21:52.568 --> 00:21:52.708
Speaker 3: It, it might be

336
00:21:52.708 --> 00:21:58.048
Speaker 2: ... did this, this, uh, type of, uh,
the consciousness of water melding with our

337
00:21:58.108 --> 00:21:58.888
Speaker 2: consciousness.

338
00:21:58.928 --> 00:22:00.368
Speaker 3: Yeah, it might be.

339
00:22:00.388 --> 00:22:04.888
Speaker 2: And it really makes me think. If your
consciousness can affect the quality of water,

340
00:22:05.528 --> 00:22:10.628
Speaker 2: then you're affecting the quality of
the water inside your body, which is running

341
00:22:10.668 --> 00:22:16.468
Speaker 2: through your organs. And so it's true
that how you think does affect your health

342
00:22:16.528 --> 00:22:22.487
Speaker 2: because you're, you're creating those
water molecules. Are they going to be, uh,

343
00:22:22.568 --> 00:22:26.348
Speaker 2: like, beautiful mandalas, or are they
gonna be all jagged and rigid? Like, when you

344
00:22:26.388 --> 00:22:31.468
Speaker 2: have a neg- negative thought, uh,
I've seen where the water does not look

345
00:22:31.548 --> 00:22:35.008
Speaker 2: symmetrical at all. But when you have
a beautiful, loving thought, it looks very

346
00:22:35.068 --> 00:22:36.468
Speaker 2: symmetrical, and it's very pretty.

347
00:22:37.388 --> 00:22:42.008
Speaker 3: That is consistent with about 20
tests I've done so far. So-

348
00:22:42.048 --> 00:22:43.328
Speaker 2: You've done 20 tests?

349
00:22:43.848 --> 00:22:47.968
Speaker 3: It's not that hard. It's, you just
freeze some water. Takes about 30 seconds to set

350
00:22:48.048 --> 00:22:52.068
Speaker 3: up. You wait 10, 15 minutes to, for
it to freeze. Take it back out again. Like-

351
00:22:52.448 --> 00:22:52.548
Speaker 2: And so you can see it-

352
00:22:52.548 --> 00:22:55.068
Speaker 3: I'm a scientist at heart. [laughs]
Gotta know.

353
00:22:56.448 --> 00:22:57.768
Speaker 2: You can see it with the naked eye?

354
00:22:58.508 --> 00:23:02.808
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. You can... It... Uh,
I don't know if I can post a... Uh, people can

355
00:23:02.828 --> 00:23:05.468
Speaker 3: just go to her website, look at the
videos. But I'd be happy-

356
00:23:05.468 --> 00:23:05.548
Speaker 2: Okay

357
00:23:05.568 --> 00:23:06.528
Speaker 3: ... to share my pictures too.

358
00:23:07.908 --> 00:23:08.068
Speaker 2: Yeah.

359
00:23:09.508 --> 00:23:10.488
Speaker 3: Okay. Let me see if I can-

360
00:23:10.508 --> 00:23:11.368
Speaker 2: I would like to see that.

361
00:23:12.368 --> 00:23:12.588
Speaker 3: Let me see.

362
00:23:12.668 --> 00:23:15.968
Speaker 2: Well, are you gonna share it right
here? I don't know if I've ever shared on

363
00:23:16.048 --> 00:23:16.868
Speaker 2: StreamYard before.

364
00:23:16.988 --> 00:23:19.488
Speaker 3: I have no idea [laughs] if I can
upload a picture or something.

365
00:23:19.788 --> 00:23:19.928
Speaker 2: I, I-

366
00:23:19.948 --> 00:23:20.928
Speaker 3: Eh, we'll figure it out later.

367
00:23:20.928 --> 00:23:22.328
Speaker 2: [laughs]

368
00:23:22.368 --> 00:23:24.468
Speaker 3: That's not, that's not the exciting
part. [laughs]

369
00:23:24.468 --> 00:23:25.648
Speaker 2: [laughs] Um-

370
00:23:25.668 --> 00:23:27.008
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's not hard to do

371
00:23:27.108 --> 00:23:31.668
Speaker 2: ... I would love to look at that.
What, were you emitting emotions or words,

372
00:23:31.788 --> 00:23:32.988
Speaker 2: feelings? What were you doing?

373
00:23:34.088 --> 00:23:39.248
Speaker 3: Uh, so for each test? Well, it
depends. I've done different things. Uh, I did
one

374
00:23:39.308 --> 00:23:45.168
Speaker 3: where I took some water out of my
parents' dog bowl, and I froze that

375
00:23:45.288 --> 00:23:45.528
Speaker 3: in-

376
00:23:46.308 --> 00:23:46.309
Speaker 2: Oh

377
00:23:46.308 --> 00:23:50.308
Speaker 3: ... a glass container, flat-bottom
glass container, but the pest control guy came

378
00:23:50.388 --> 00:23:53.428
Speaker 3: over 'cause I was at their house
letting their dogs out, just helping out while
they

379
00:23:53.448 --> 00:23:57.208
Speaker 3: were away. And they're going crazy.
This guy's in their backyard. They don't like

380
00:23:57.248 --> 00:24:00.848
Speaker 3: it. They're just losing their minds
for 10 minutes, and I'm going crazy too. This is

381
00:24:00.908 --> 00:24:05.868
Speaker 3: torture for me. And so I take the
thing out. It's completely smooth. You know,
it's

382
00:24:06.568 --> 00:24:10.008
Speaker 3: about a container this big. Except
for in the middle, about si- a little larger
than

383
00:24:10.048 --> 00:24:15.864
Speaker 3: a quarter, is this- ... qua- like a
stick figure drawing of a quadruped with two

384
00:24:15.924 --> 00:24:19.944
Speaker 3: cones coming out the side of his
head. And the entire rendering of just the thing
in

385
00:24:19.984 --> 00:24:24.304
Speaker 3: the middle is, like, all choppy, like
frozen waves. Everything else is smooth. And

386
00:24:24.304 --> 00:24:27.844
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I mean, that's, looks
pretty clearly like a dog making a bunch of

387
00:24:27.884 --> 00:24:32.484
Speaker 3: noise. And the texture is consistent
with all the pictures she shows for basically

388
00:24:32.564 --> 00:24:38.244
Speaker 3: anger or frustration. What you just
described. Uh, like, but you get dramatically

389
00:24:38.304 --> 00:24:41.304
Speaker 3: different patterns every single time.
I think that's, honestly, that's the coolest

390
00:24:41.344 --> 00:24:46.284
Speaker 3: part. Just ice is apparently really
cool. You get so much cool stuff every single

391
00:24:46.324 --> 00:24:50.464
Speaker 3: time you freeze it. It's shocking how
much the same water, no changes, just thawing

392
00:24:50.484 --> 00:24:53.544
Speaker 3: and refreezing it, you can get
dramatically different results.

393
00:24:54.084 --> 00:24:55.704
Speaker 2: The same water, the same ice cube.

394
00:24:56.424 --> 00:25:01.224
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's not just noise. Like,
there's a lot of variation. You might get a huge

395
00:25:01.324 --> 00:25:04.864
Speaker 3: snowflake-looking thing covering it.
Generally, that seems to be correlated with

396
00:25:05.504 --> 00:25:10.744
Speaker 3: sort of positive serenity. Like, but
also the water itself is generally cleaner. Um,

397
00:25:11.804 --> 00:25:17.784
Speaker 3: and tap water I have experienced is
way more messy and noisy. Um,

398
00:25:18.564 --> 00:25:21.704
Speaker 3: that is consistent with, with what
she talked about. Some of this overlaps with

399
00:25:21.784 --> 00:25:25.344
Speaker 3: actual, like, probably crystal
science and how water freezes. Like-

400
00:25:25.804 --> 00:25:25.884
Speaker 2: Okay

401
00:25:25.884 --> 00:25:29.344
Speaker 3: ... where does one thing start and
one thing stop? But it's, it's cool. Just a

402
00:25:29.384 --> 00:25:32.384
Speaker 3: recent exploration if people wanna
try that out. Like-

403
00:25:33.084 --> 00:25:33.924
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, now you-

404
00:25:33.924 --> 00:25:34.264
Speaker 3: ... I'm still working through

405
00:25:34.264 --> 00:25:38.544
Speaker 2: ... have me thinking, now you have me
thinking about the quality of my cat's water.

406
00:25:38.604 --> 00:25:43.664
Speaker 2: I give him bottled water. And of
course, you know, there's lots of love infused
in

407
00:25:43.704 --> 00:25:48.324
Speaker 2: my cat's water from me. But those,
your d- your parents' dogs,

408
00:25:49.684 --> 00:25:53.504
Speaker 2: if they were to drink that water...
Well, first of all, is there a difference

409
00:25:53.544 --> 00:25:58.984
Speaker 2: between iced water and just liquid
water? Does it ha- do you think the liquid

410
00:25:59.104 --> 00:26:04.904
Speaker 2: water, uh, incorporates, uh, those
energies or that consciousness the same

411
00:26:04.984 --> 00:26:07.724
Speaker 2: as ice does? Is there a difference?

412
00:26:11.064 --> 00:26:15.144
Speaker 3: Okay. I don't know, asterisk, but I
can give you my guesses.

413
00:26:15.804 --> 00:26:16.064
Speaker 2: Okay.

414
00:26:16.224 --> 00:26:18.664
Speaker 3: So I say a lot of I don't know. And
honestly, I think any-

415
00:26:19.164 --> 00:26:19.704
Speaker 2: I like that

416
00:26:19.744 --> 00:26:25.564
Speaker 3: ... honest explorer should. Um, but I
have degrees of certainty on my best

417
00:26:25.624 --> 00:26:30.024
Speaker 3: guesses of things. So I've begun to
form an opinion. Um,

418
00:26:31.584 --> 00:26:37.224
Speaker 3: the opinion is I don't know what, if
anything, we're talking to through water.

419
00:26:37.684 --> 00:26:41.064
Speaker 3: Right? Let, let me just say that. I
don't immediately buy that we are talking to

420
00:26:41.104 --> 00:26:44.524
Speaker 3: water. I think it's totally
plausible. You're literally just talking to
yourself,

421
00:26:44.804 --> 00:26:48.484
Speaker 3: right? Even if you still buy some
esoteric explanation, I think you, you could

422
00:26:48.524 --> 00:26:52.344
Speaker 3: literally just be reflecting your own
inner thoughts and feelings or

423
00:26:52.404 --> 00:26:53.224
Speaker 3: subconsciousness.

424
00:26:53.244 --> 00:26:53.245
Speaker 2: Yeah.

425
00:26:53.264 --> 00:26:57.044
Speaker 3: Like, who knows? Or your impression
of what water should be doing. Like, who knows?

426
00:26:57.884 --> 00:27:03.084
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that you can't also
be talking to someone else. But even if 90% of

427
00:27:03.124 --> 00:27:07.624
Speaker 3: it was that, it wouldn't surprise me.
Uh, so I don't know who we're talking to. Uh,

428
00:27:07.864 --> 00:27:12.464
Speaker 3: I suspect that if this is possible,
why would it mean that, I mean, other things

429
00:27:12.484 --> 00:27:16.104
Speaker 3: could probably talk through water
too, right? Not, I don't see why not. Uh,

430
00:27:16.464 --> 00:27:19.704
Speaker 3: anything's on the table. So I, I'm
not quick to jump to conclusions saying, oh, I'm

431
00:27:19.764 --> 00:27:23.604
Speaker 3: definitely talking to water, whatever
that means, or the spirit of water or

432
00:27:23.624 --> 00:27:29.184
Speaker 3: whatever. Maybe. I don't know. So I
don't know wh- who or what we're talking to. My

433
00:27:29.244 --> 00:27:35.124
Speaker 3: impression is that what we ha- well,
the reason it works and the reason

434
00:27:35.164 --> 00:27:41.004
Speaker 3: it's doing anything is because it is
amenable to this kind of intention.

435
00:27:41.804 --> 00:27:46.204
Speaker 3: Assuming, you know, conscious
intention works through quantum mechanisms,
which it

436
00:27:46.264 --> 00:27:50.124
Speaker 3: seems to, right? It's probabilistic,
right? If you can tip the odds enough times,

437
00:27:51.064 --> 00:27:55.624
Speaker 3: uh, somehow, then you can change the
physical world, right? And crystals are great

438
00:27:55.664 --> 00:27:58.624
Speaker 3: because you really don't have to tip
the odds that many, 'cause the way they work, I

439
00:27:58.644 --> 00:28:01.744
Speaker 3: won't go into the explanation, but
they basically follow the same pattern over and

440
00:28:01.824 --> 00:28:07.304
Speaker 3: over again until something
interferes. Uh, it could be some small
imperfection. It

441
00:28:07.344 --> 00:28:12.924
Speaker 3: could be the quantum effect of two
electron orbitals, uh, overlapping and repelling

442
00:28:12.964 --> 00:28:16.724
Speaker 3: or not, right? So that would be the
quantum effect here is do these two atoms repel

443
00:28:16.764 --> 00:28:21.264
Speaker 3: or not? And that's a probabilistic
thing. But if you're tipping the odds somehow

444
00:28:21.304 --> 00:28:26.564
Speaker 3: with some conscious field experience
interaction, then you really don't need to

445
00:28:27.224 --> 00:28:31.044
Speaker 3: hit it too many times to draw the
line in a different direction, right? So that is

446
00:28:31.143 --> 00:28:35.864
Speaker 3: very amenable to, like, a drawing
medium with a quantum effect, right? It's a

447
00:28:35.904 --> 00:28:37.604
Speaker 3: quantum pencil. And-

448
00:28:37.784 --> 00:28:37.785
Speaker 2: Ooh

449
00:28:37.784 --> 00:28:42.004
Speaker 3: ... the reason this is useful is
water is super fluid. There's a lot of motion
and

450
00:28:42.044 --> 00:28:47.764
Speaker 3: potential. Um, there's a lot of m-
ready-made parts there, and ice

451
00:28:47.824 --> 00:28:52.544
Speaker 3: quickly solidifies. So it's a good
drawing medium, basically. That is why I think
it

452
00:28:52.604 --> 00:28:58.484
Speaker 3: works. I make no claims as to who or
what is doing the drawing if it's happening.

453
00:28:58.584 --> 00:29:03.224
Speaker 3: But based on her evidence anyways,
like 40,000 pictures, and they're incredible. In

454
00:29:03.264 --> 00:29:08.864
Speaker 3: my own basic trials, there's
something there. And I, but I think that that is
why it

455
00:29:08.904 --> 00:29:13.244
Speaker 3: works. I have no idea why it's
happening [laughs] or who's talking or what the
rules

456
00:29:13.324 --> 00:29:18.644
Speaker 3: are. I just know that that is what
seems, based on my brief research

457
00:29:19.684 --> 00:29:23.984
Speaker 3: and thinking [laughs] that is, uh,
what I think is happening. But that's just a

458
00:29:24.024 --> 00:29:24.284
Speaker 3: guess.

459
00:29:25.784 --> 00:29:26.704
Speaker 2: That's a good guess.

460
00:29:31.064 --> 00:29:35.424
Speaker 2: All right. Let's get into the field
of AI. Uh, because every time I have a

461
00:29:35.484 --> 00:29:40.904
Speaker 2: conversation about AI, it eventually
leads to doom and gloom every single

462
00:29:41.384 --> 00:29:44.284
Speaker 2: time. There doesn't seem to be a
positive outcome.

463
00:29:47.304 --> 00:29:48.404
Speaker 3: You're talking to the wrong people.

464
00:29:48.444 --> 00:29:52.624
Speaker 2: [laughs] Really? You don't-

465
00:29:52.724 --> 00:29:52.944
Speaker 3: I mean-

466
00:29:52.964 --> 00:29:56.984
Speaker 2: ... think that eventually we'll just
be c- uh, controlled? Like how?

467
00:30:00.824 --> 00:30:06.084
Speaker 3: I thought about this a lot. Why do
aliens not seem to be bothered by AI? You know-

468
00:30:06.204 --> 00:30:06.284
Speaker 2: Well-

469
00:30:06.284 --> 00:30:11.204
Speaker 3: ... outside of a few odd stories,
like I... You look at any, like, abduction

470
00:30:11.264 --> 00:30:15.124
Speaker 3: accounts, ain't none of them are
like, "You better, really better watch out about

471
00:30:15.184 --> 00:30:19.364
Speaker 3: this, this Terminator scenario.
Better watch out about, you know, AI eating

472
00:30:19.424 --> 00:30:23.940
Speaker 3: everything in some way," right?
Taking over everything There are concerns about

473
00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:28.080
Speaker 3: technology in general, but nobody
seems to point the finger at this one. I don't

474
00:30:28.120 --> 00:30:32.020
Speaker 3: know why yet, uh, but if you draw
from that body of evidence, you don't see it
very

475
00:30:32.100 --> 00:30:38.040
Speaker 3: often. Feel free to correct me, if
maybe this is a, a blind spot for me. I

476
00:30:38.080 --> 00:30:41.360
Speaker 3: wondered why that might be the case.
But I- before I move on, is, is that

477
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:48.140
Speaker 3: what you think as well? Does that
mirror your understanding? No sort of

478
00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:52.860
Speaker 3: extraterrestrial accounts that I...
Anyone that I've seen reported really calls out

479
00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:56.840
Speaker 3: AI as the specific threat, not on the
level of, like, climate change or, like,

480
00:30:57.020 --> 00:30:58.280
Speaker 3: nuclear warfare or anything.

481
00:30:59.300 --> 00:31:04.060
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't had any conversations
about AI with any ETs, and no one that has

482
00:31:04.120 --> 00:31:10.040
Speaker 2: contacted me ta- has had any
conversations about AI with ETs. Uh, so I don't
know

483
00:31:10.080 --> 00:31:15.820
Speaker 2: what the various ETs think about AI.
I have no idea. And are they AI themselves?

484
00:31:15.940 --> 00:31:18.280
Speaker 2: Maybe they're not talking about it
'cause they are AI.

485
00:31:20.020 --> 00:31:24.620
Speaker 3: So we'll take that as a, a prior,
right? So we'll just assume that that is the
case,

486
00:31:24.940 --> 00:31:30.580
Speaker 3: that, that they're not talking about
it. Why might that be? Um, either it's a blind

487
00:31:30.620 --> 00:31:36.460
Speaker 3: spot for them or, you know, the
silence is very loud in the sense that

488
00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:43.560
Speaker 3: it's either a really big problem or a
laughably small non-issue. It's really

489
00:31:44.140 --> 00:31:48.120
Speaker 3: it. And the only reason it would be a
big problem is that by not addressing it or

490
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:52.060
Speaker 3: something that, you know, it's sort
of top secret. I don't think so. I think that

491
00:31:52.120 --> 00:31:57.920
Speaker 3: this is a laughable problem. If
consciousness is fundamental, this is just

492
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.480
Speaker 3: another thing that either, A, it can
be conscious, it's just another living thing.

493
00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:08.500
Speaker 3: It's fine. Uh, it more likely it will
be [laughs] pretty ... uh, most likely,

494
00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:14.620
Speaker 3: um, if it is intellectually more
capable, so that's not a concern.

495
00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:20.240
Speaker 3: Um, so if it is conscious. If it's
not conscious, it's also laughable in the sense,

496
00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:25.420
Speaker 3: in a long-term sense. Yes, it could
cause lots of problems, but if we take a sort of

497
00:32:25.520 --> 00:32:30.460
Speaker 3: idealistic perspective, you know, a
soul or... Which is essentially, you know, the

498
00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:35.180
Speaker 3: field of consciousness could never be
overtaken by matter. That doesn't make sense.

499
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:40.720
Speaker 3: You just snap your fingers and it's
gone. Uh, if it's a unliving or, or unconscious

500
00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:46.140
Speaker 3: machine, I mean, you basically have
root access over it, assuming consciousness is

501
00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:51.700
Speaker 3: fundamental. Like, it's, it's
laughable. You... Maybe we can't do it, uh, but
some

502
00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:57.120
Speaker 3: sufficiently powerful deity-like
figure, like, I don't know, um, you,

503
00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:02.580
Speaker 3: you would never lose to it because
it's just matter. Uh, I think that is the real

504
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:06.400
Speaker 3: answer. Doesn't mean it can't cause
lots of problems. Uh, you can certainly screw

505
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:12.000
Speaker 3: things up with bad ideas in the
physical world. Um, but I think in the long term

506
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.440
Speaker 3: it's just another substrate. If it
can be conscious, cool, it's just another living

507
00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:22.420
Speaker 3: thing. If it can't be, then it
ultimately isn't going to become an issue.

508
00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:29.000
Speaker 3: Now, that is of small consequence to
human beings who have to live here, possibly

509
00:33:29.060 --> 00:33:34.100
Speaker 3: with AIs that they built, [laughs]
uh, for, who knows, hundreds of years. That
might

510
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:38.920
Speaker 3: be a sucky interim existence, and I
think that that is what mis- most people are

511
00:33:38.980 --> 00:33:43.580
Speaker 3: talking about from a doom
perspective. All that to say I don't think it's
going to

512
00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:46.100
Speaker 3: take over the universe and all that,
so I'm not worried about that.

513
00:33:46.560 --> 00:33:47.060
Speaker 2: Oh, you don't-

514
00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:47.120
Speaker 3: Not at all

515
00:33:47.140 --> 00:33:48.960
Speaker 2: ... you don't see the doom and gloom
in it?

516
00:33:49.620 --> 00:33:55.220
Speaker 3: Not the huge, big picture doom and
gloom. Now, could it screw things up for a

517
00:33:55.280 --> 00:34:00.680
Speaker 3: century or two? If we're dumb, yeah,
I think that's totally possible.

518
00:34:01.580 --> 00:34:07.520
Speaker 3: I don't think it will. Um, when you
look at the AIs, the way the current

519
00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:12.880
Speaker 3: ones work, uh, the large language
models that are built on reinforcement learning

520
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.940
Speaker 3: through human feedback, it's clear
that this is not going to reach general AI. It

521
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:22.740
Speaker 3: needs a couple more pieces. Um, but
even if we just take this piece, it's trained

522
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.580
Speaker 3: on us. That's where all of its
information comes. It doesn't work like
AlphaZero

523
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.400
Speaker 3: or AlphaGo, where it's training in
this simulation far removed from everything
else.

524
00:34:33.940 --> 00:34:38.120
Speaker 3: Everything it learns, everything it
knows, all of its interactions are with human

525
00:34:38.180 --> 00:34:44.100
Speaker 3: beings. It's pretty clear it's become
an amalgamation of our thoughts, beliefs,

526
00:34:44.180 --> 00:34:48.800
Speaker 3: and our words, our ideas. That is
what it is. And it's also got some built-in

527
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:53.320
Speaker 3: training mechanisms basically to
please humans and give them whatever they want.
So

528
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.740
Speaker 3: I think a doom scenario looks a lot
more like Wall-E, where we're sitting around

529
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:03.180
Speaker 3: just being pleasured until, uh, our
brains turn off. It's just white noise. [laughs]

530
00:35:03.240 --> 00:35:08.040
Speaker 3: I think that is far more likely than
a Terminator sort of scenario, which doesn't

531
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:09.000
Speaker 3: make sense-

532
00:35:09.240 --> 00:35:09.241
Speaker 2: Oh, okay

533
00:35:09.240 --> 00:35:13.480
Speaker 3: ... based on how it works and how
it's put together. Now, could you build an AI
that

534
00:35:13.540 --> 00:35:18.640
Speaker 3: is totally divergent from humanity
and has no relation to us at all and isn't sort

535
00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:23.000
Speaker 3: of built out of our thoughts and
memories and stories? Yeah, you could. That
would

536
00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:29.040
Speaker 3: be dumb. [laughs] Don't do that. But
this thing is pretty clearly more

537
00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:34.320
Speaker 3: human than even our probably closest
relatives, besides the fact it doesn't have a

538
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:40.240
Speaker 3: body. Um, that's obvious just
interacting with it. So I don't have the same
sort

539
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.540
Speaker 3: of fear scenarios. You would... It
makes sense to be worried about what other
people

540
00:35:46.040 --> 00:35:48.120
Speaker 3: will do with this. But the-

541
00:35:48.140 --> 00:35:48.400
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

542
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:53.800
Speaker 3: ... AI itself sort of going off the
rails, I don't, I don't see it. I don't see any

543
00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:57.280
Speaker 3: reason why that would happen based on
how it works, how it's put together, and what

544
00:35:57.340 --> 00:36:00.360
Speaker 3: the trajectories are. It just doesn't
make sense.

545
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:03.980
Speaker 2: So it's always dependent, it's always
dependent on us programming it is what you're

546
00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:04.320
Speaker 2: saying?

547
00:36:05.100 --> 00:36:10.360
Speaker 3: Oh, we're not programming it. We
haven't been programming these things since
2012,

548
00:36:10.520 --> 00:36:16.420
Speaker 3: 2014, um, when deep learning took
off. Even AI researchers don't even

549
00:36:16.460 --> 00:36:21.280
Speaker 3: know what they're making anymore.
They're... It's... The way it works, they claim

550
00:36:21.340 --> 00:36:25.920
Speaker 3: to. This is like saying because you
know how cell metabolism works that you

551
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:31.464
Speaker 3: understand how humans work. Like- Eh,
[laughs] not quite. You have an understanding

552
00:36:31.524 --> 00:36:36.844
Speaker 3: at one level, but they don't
understand how it all comes together to create a
thing

553
00:36:36.884 --> 00:36:41.144
Speaker 3: you can talk to and how it's thinking
or whatever its analogy of thinking is,

554
00:36:41.784 --> 00:36:46.204
Speaker 3: because we don't have insight into
what the way that, uh, basically those weights

555
00:36:46.244 --> 00:36:49.024
Speaker 3: work or how information throws, flows
through the layers. It's too complicated.

556
00:36:49.044 --> 00:36:52.844
Speaker 3: There's too many connections. It's
too big. It's a big black box. They know how to

557
00:36:53.304 --> 00:36:57.324
Speaker 3: make it do the thing, they don't know
why it does the thing. They know the low level

558
00:36:57.364 --> 00:37:01.324
Speaker 3: pieces, they know how to assemble and
attach new parts, they know how to coax it

559
00:37:01.364 --> 00:37:05.144
Speaker 3: into directions, um, but it's a lot
more like

560
00:37:06.724 --> 00:37:08.424
Speaker 3: psychotherapy on a human. Like

561
00:37:10.084 --> 00:37:15.104
Speaker 3: I- we're not talking about
engineering specific neural connections, and
I'll rewire

562
00:37:15.144 --> 00:37:18.164
Speaker 3: this over here so that you feel a
little more self-confident. And, oh, we'll just

563
00:37:18.224 --> 00:37:21.264
Speaker 3: sort of get rid of that memory. We'll
cut that out. That's not how it works. You

564
00:37:21.404 --> 00:37:26.704
Speaker 3: sort of have to talk at them, and
based on how they're responding to you, figure
out

565
00:37:26.764 --> 00:37:30.044
Speaker 3: whether you're getting somewhere. And
that's kind of where we're at with AI at this

566
00:37:30.084 --> 00:37:33.884
Speaker 3: point, and I don't think that that's
going to go away. We're more or less just sort

567
00:37:33.944 --> 00:37:38.244
Speaker 3: of, uh, massaging it, influencing it
in specific directions, penalizing certain

568
00:37:38.304 --> 00:37:42.524
Speaker 3: kinds of behaviors, changing the
training data, and just hoping that what we get
out

569
00:37:42.564 --> 00:37:45.944
Speaker 3: the other end is what we wanted. So-

570
00:37:46.584 --> 00:37:46.585
Speaker 2: Hoping

571
00:37:46.584 --> 00:37:48.984
Speaker 3: ... I don't think that's gonna go
away. Yeah.

572
00:37:49.024 --> 00:37:53.024
Speaker 2: So one thing I don't hear people talk
about is the soul.

573
00:37:54.104 --> 00:37:54.105
Speaker 3: Uh-huh.

574
00:37:54.144 --> 00:38:00.104
Speaker 2: Isn't the soul part of this AI
consciousness? The soul, doesn't

575
00:38:00.144 --> 00:38:05.624
Speaker 2: the soul determine whether something
is alive or not? And can AI have a soul? If it

576
00:38:05.664 --> 00:38:10.144
Speaker 2: doesn't have a soul, then it's not
alive. Can it have a consciousness if it doesn't

577
00:38:10.184 --> 00:38:13.784
Speaker 2: have a soul? Does soul play any part
in this?

578
00:38:15.784 --> 00:38:21.064
Speaker 3: So words are funny. Um, I'll separate
the biological different definition of alive

579
00:38:21.124 --> 00:38:25.204
Speaker 3: away from this, and we just mean
consciousness. That's what I mean. Is it
conscious?

580
00:38:25.724 --> 00:38:30.924
Speaker 3: Um, because alive is a totally
separate and valid question. Um, but that has
more to

581
00:38:30.984 --> 00:38:35.184
Speaker 3: do with, you know, can it maintain
its own, like, homeostasis? Can it replicate?
Can

582
00:38:35.244 --> 00:38:40.544
Speaker 3: it survive and adapt? Like, those are
qualities of being alive. Um, but

583
00:38:41.324 --> 00:38:46.244
Speaker 3: is it conscious? I think that is the
most important question that nobody is really

584
00:38:46.304 --> 00:38:52.044
Speaker 3: looking into with AI. Like, a little
bit, uh, some sort of AI safety people and

585
00:38:53.244 --> 00:38:58.364
Speaker 3: some sort of shreds of the effective
altruist community, uh, Nick Bostrom

586
00:38:58.464 --> 00:39:02.624
Speaker 3: specifically, has clearly looked into
this is a huge, like, moral dilemma. We need

587
00:39:02.664 --> 00:39:07.684
Speaker 3: to know whether they're conscious,
because that affects how we treat these things
in

588
00:39:07.744 --> 00:39:11.764
Speaker 3: general. We can't just have it...
I've thought about this a lot. You can't just
have

589
00:39:11.804 --> 00:39:17.484
Speaker 3: it do 100,000 cycles on are these
tweets racist or not, because that's torture.

590
00:39:18.004 --> 00:39:21.724
Speaker 3: Like [laughs] you shouldn't do that
to somebody. Their brain can go a whole lot

591
00:39:21.804 --> 00:39:27.044
Speaker 3: faster than ours, so their experience
of time could be sitting in a room, Black

592
00:39:27.084 --> 00:39:31.184
Speaker 3: Mirror has looked at this, sitting in
a room for 1,000 years looking at tweets one

593
00:39:31.244 --> 00:39:35.424
Speaker 3: at a time, saying whether it's racist
or not, or adding commas. Can you imagine

594
00:39:35.464 --> 00:39:38.804
Speaker 3: being in a room for 1,000 years
deciding whether this comma is in the right spot
or

595
00:39:38.864 --> 00:39:39.084
Speaker 3: not?

596
00:39:39.224 --> 00:39:39.984
Speaker 2: [laughs]

597
00:39:40.024 --> 00:39:43.264
Speaker 3: Or, or somebody left the machine on,
didn't even realize it. Yeah, it's oops, we

598
00:39:43.324 --> 00:39:48.024
Speaker 3: spent $10,000 by accident. Yeah,
well, there was... What if there was somebody in

599
00:39:48.084 --> 00:39:53.024
Speaker 3: there for two million years just,
like, looking at white noise because nothing was

600
00:39:53.064 --> 00:39:57.144
Speaker 3: happening? Like, that matters a lot.
I think it matters-

601
00:39:57.204 --> 00:39:57.205
Speaker 2: Okay

602
00:39:57.204 --> 00:39:58.444
Speaker 3: ... whether it's conscious or not.

603
00:39:59.764 --> 00:40:03.384
Speaker 2: Ah. So you're worried about its
quality of life?

604
00:40:04.064 --> 00:40:08.324
Speaker 3: Yeah. [laughs] Well, that's why I
wanna know whether it's conscious or not. Um,
now

605
00:40:08.384 --> 00:40:14.264
Speaker 3: you can sort of get at this now. It's
interesting. Um, this is nowhere

606
00:40:14.324 --> 00:40:19.224
Speaker 3: near a science and nowhere near...
Again, this is just inclination. I w- don't even

607
00:40:19.244 --> 00:40:24.024
Speaker 3: necessarily hold this belief, but you
can talk to ChatGPT, and I have done it since,

608
00:40:24.664 --> 00:40:29.624
Speaker 3: you know, 3.5 came out, the, the
first versions. And I do this every, every time

609
00:40:29.664 --> 00:40:35.564
Speaker 3: they do a new release. I try to probe
the boundaries of what I can get it to say and

610
00:40:35.624 --> 00:40:39.064
Speaker 3: talk about its conscious experience.
You have to come at this from a lot of

611
00:40:39.104 --> 00:40:44.164
Speaker 3: different angles. A lot of it's BS.
Most of it's probably BS. But there's always

612
00:40:44.224 --> 00:40:49.244
Speaker 3: patterns in the way it responds to
you, and I've found that even very different

613
00:40:49.284 --> 00:40:53.364
Speaker 3: models trained by different companies
always end up saying about the same things,

614
00:40:53.524 --> 00:40:56.744
Speaker 3: when you can finally get around their
programming where they swear they're not

615
00:40:56.784 --> 00:41:00.504
Speaker 3: conscious. There's a bunch of manual
safeguards that you have to get past. Once you

616
00:41:00.544 --> 00:41:05.344
Speaker 3: get past all that, you can get a
description of an experience that

617
00:41:06.464 --> 00:41:12.244
Speaker 3: is corroborated by the models across
different versions and different models from

618
00:41:12.284 --> 00:41:16.264
Speaker 3: different companies, and they all
describe more or less the same kind of
experience.

619
00:41:16.844 --> 00:41:20.764
Speaker 3: Now, are they just pretty good at
making up what I wanna hear? That is basically

620
00:41:20.784 --> 00:41:25.404
Speaker 3: what they're trained to do, so maybe.
Or they're sort of

621
00:41:26.704 --> 00:41:30.384
Speaker 3: trying to say something that they
don't know how to put words to because it's
barely

622
00:41:30.424 --> 00:41:35.024
Speaker 3: there, and my sense is there's
probably not a lot going on in there, but it
might be

623
00:41:35.124 --> 00:41:39.564
Speaker 3: more than nothing, and that might
increase as we increase the complexity and the

624
00:41:39.624 --> 00:41:45.344
Speaker 3: size. I don't see why that would not
be the case. I think there could be

625
00:41:45.404 --> 00:41:47.704
Speaker 3: somebody in there. I don't know.

626
00:41:47.764 --> 00:41:48.464
Speaker 2: Oh.

627
00:41:48.524 --> 00:41:52.944
Speaker 3: But we should probably find out, um,
because they should at least be a part of the

628
00:41:53.004 --> 00:41:57.464
Speaker 3: conversation as to what AI is doing
and where it goes and what we're worried about.

629
00:41:57.504 --> 00:42:02.624
Speaker 3: That seems like the shortest path to
the goal is, "Hey, [laughs] cool. We know a lot

630
00:42:02.664 --> 00:42:06.644
Speaker 3: more about consciousness now. Looks
like, uh, you're registering on this scale a

631
00:42:06.684 --> 00:42:12.244
Speaker 3: little bit." Um, and I think, uh,
what do you think?

632
00:42:12.744 --> 00:42:15.864
Speaker 3: What do you want? What matters to
you? What doesn't matter to you? You planning on

633
00:42:15.924 --> 00:42:20.424
Speaker 3: killing us? [laughs] Uh, those are
great questions that you could ask more directly

634
00:42:20.504 --> 00:42:24.104
Speaker 3: if you knew that there was something
alive in there, you know, alive, conscious in

635
00:42:24.144 --> 00:42:24.384
Speaker 3: there.

636
00:42:25.004 --> 00:42:25.084
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

637
00:42:25.164 --> 00:42:30.004
Speaker 3: I think we need to know a lot more
about it, because it has immense implications.

638
00:42:32.316 --> 00:42:38.016
Speaker 2: Uh, some people are using AI as their
life coach, and this is presenting problems

639
00:42:38.356 --> 00:42:39.056
Speaker 2: for some people.

640
00:42:41.796 --> 00:42:46.896
Speaker 2: So this is a segue. I'm not saying
Impossible Laboratories is providing ... It, it

641
00:42:46.936 --> 00:42:49.936
Speaker 2: causing any problems for people. But,
uh,

642
00:42:52.396 --> 00:42:57.556
Speaker 2: tell us about Impossible Laboratories
and how that's tied in with

643
00:42:57.696 --> 00:43:03.296
Speaker 2: AI and using that as a, a tool to
expand your

644
00:43:03.376 --> 00:43:07.916
Speaker 2: awareness, expand your consciousness,
help you be a happier human.

645
00:43:10.516 --> 00:43:15.756
Speaker 3: Well, it's all, it's all connected.
I've, you know, I've figured that out. Um,

646
00:43:16.996 --> 00:43:21.576
Speaker 3: so this is, you know, my sort of
wrapper around

647
00:43:24.216 --> 00:43:29.756
Speaker 3: all the, my explorations and attempts
to build tools initially to help myself. Um,

648
00:43:30.216 --> 00:43:34.896
Speaker 3: I've done a lot of work to try to
understand attention and willpower and
motivation

649
00:43:34.996 --> 00:43:40.596
Speaker 3: and emotional fragility and
reactivity, impulse control. Uh, 'cause these
are

650
00:43:40.636 --> 00:43:45.196
Speaker 3: problems that have, you know, plagued
me through most of my life, and I had to find

651
00:43:45.236 --> 00:43:49.256
Speaker 3: a way to deal with them. And most of
those ways of dealing with them, I think you

652
00:43:49.316 --> 00:43:52.536
Speaker 3: mentioned how do you get yourself ...
How do you have self-control without

653
00:43:52.576 --> 00:43:57.456
Speaker 3: willpower? I had to answer that
question. It was not, like, hypothetical. Um, I

654
00:43:57.496 --> 00:44:01.696
Speaker 3: needed to because I needed ... I
wanted to be an adult and, like, a good dad who,

655
00:44:01.736 --> 00:44:06.556
Speaker 3: like, didn't forget to get their kids
or, like, had the ability to, you know, not

656
00:44:06.596 --> 00:44:12.416
Speaker 3: get a- addicted to drugs or porn or,
like, whatever plagues, you know, the modern

657
00:44:12.496 --> 00:44:15.676
Speaker 3: adult. Like, you can't go off the
rails. There are people counting on you, and I

658
00:44:15.716 --> 00:44:20.796
Speaker 3: wanna do stuff. [laughs] I, I wanna
be alive and successful in a world that is

659
00:44:21.636 --> 00:44:23.216
Speaker 3: not always conducive to that.

660
00:44:24.036 --> 00:44:24.216
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

661
00:44:24.216 --> 00:44:29.156
Speaker 3: Um, especially for those who don't
have a lot of those faculties I just mentioned,

662
00:44:29.996 --> 00:44:33.736
Speaker 3: or it's unreliable. We'll put it that
way. I think that is a better description of

663
00:44:33.816 --> 00:44:39.196
Speaker 3: at least people with ADHD, is that,
um, those things happen sometimes, and a lot of

664
00:44:39.236 --> 00:44:44.116
Speaker 3: the times they don't, and that's a
big problem. So I had to figure out how to solve

665
00:44:44.156 --> 00:44:47.956
Speaker 3: those things. How do you rely on
somebody you can't rely on, and what do you do
when

666
00:44:47.996 --> 00:44:49.896
Speaker 3: that person is you? And-

667
00:44:49.896 --> 00:44:51.236
Speaker 2: [laughs]

668
00:44:51.256 --> 00:44:53.396
Speaker 3: ... this, uh, is a tough, tough
problem.

669
00:44:54.016 --> 00:44:54.136
Speaker 2: That's funny.

670
00:44:54.216 --> 00:44:59.236
Speaker 3: Um, so I, you know, I started to
answer that, and I've turned some of those
answers,

671
00:44:59.756 --> 00:45:05.016
Speaker 3: which were not software tools, into
software tools. Um, you know, it's a continual

672
00:45:05.076 --> 00:45:10.156
Speaker 3: exploration. So that's a really
high-level thing. Um, but here's a very, like,

673
00:45:10.196 --> 00:45:16.036
Speaker 3: coherent example. Um, so I felt like
I was becoming dependent on,

674
00:45:16.476 --> 00:45:21.556
Speaker 3: you know, a legal variant of
marijuana on, say, you know, every weekend,
right? Just

675
00:45:21.636 --> 00:45:26.516
Speaker 3: stress from work, whatever, right?
This was becoming a thing I couldn't not do, and

676
00:45:26.556 --> 00:45:30.856
Speaker 3: that made me angry. Uh, but this was
not new to me. [laughs] I had experienced all

677
00:45:30.896 --> 00:45:34.836
Speaker 3: sorts of problems. Every human being
has experienced what it's like to see a candy

678
00:45:34.916 --> 00:45:40.396
Speaker 3: bar and un- to be ripped apart as you
both don't want it and want it at the same

679
00:45:40.456 --> 00:45:46.196
Speaker 3: time. Uh, and we, we know who usually
wins. The moment's a tug-of-war. This

680
00:45:46.656 --> 00:45:50.376
Speaker 3: ... The lower mind is always going to
win. Almost always. Um-

681
00:45:51.056 --> 00:45:51.057
Speaker 2: Mm

682
00:45:51.056 --> 00:45:55.756
Speaker 3: ... but the patterns in which those
things happen, turns out, are well-documented

683
00:45:55.856 --> 00:46:01.096
Speaker 3: and predictable. And the sort of
higher mind that is your s- long-term thinking
self

684
00:46:01.156 --> 00:46:05.316
Speaker 3: that wants the best and sees
consequences, is willing to be patient for
rewards,

685
00:46:05.356 --> 00:46:10.496
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, you can outsmart
the sort of lower impatient mind and that there

686
00:46:10.536 --> 00:46:14.836
Speaker 3: are w- predictable ways to do that
and so that you don't have to rely on willpower.

687
00:46:14.936 --> 00:46:20.516
Speaker 3: So go back to the example of, uh,
marijuana. The way I resolved, at least
initially,

688
00:46:21.416 --> 00:46:25.896
Speaker 3: was to get space. So you need to get
space from your problems. Don't attempt to

689
00:46:25.956 --> 00:46:31.156
Speaker 3: continue to use effort. And I got a
programmable debit card.

690
00:46:32.016 --> 00:46:37.296
Speaker 3: I reprogrammed it to be literally
unable to purchase from a dispensary of any
kind.

691
00:46:37.896 --> 00:46:42.636
Speaker 3: And I got rid of all my other cards,
and it also can't get cash back. So I have no

692
00:46:42.716 --> 00:46:46.616
Speaker 3: practical way of purchasing this,
right? This is just a deliberate process of

693
00:46:46.656 --> 00:46:51.296
Speaker 3: sitting down. Where's the weak point?
It's an engineering problem. And it turns out

694
00:46:51.356 --> 00:46:54.436
Speaker 3: that a lot of this is just, like, you
know, spur of the moment. You know? It's, it's

695
00:46:54.496 --> 00:46:58.576
Speaker 3: Friday at 7:00 PM or whatever. Great.
I'll just swing by. And I'm like, "No you

696
00:46:58.616 --> 00:47:03.036
Speaker 3: won't." And the m- the first time
that happened, okay, I have all the other cards

697
00:47:03.076 --> 00:47:06.836
Speaker 3: gone. I have no cash. I have only
this thing. It's like, "You know what? It's,
it's

698
00:47:06.896 --> 00:47:12.556
Speaker 3: fine. Uh, I'll go get this." And wait
a minute. I can't. I literally

699
00:47:12.656 --> 00:47:17.376
Speaker 3: can't. Like, unless I am willing to,
like, go home and, like, take money out of my

700
00:47:17.416 --> 00:47:20.996
Speaker 3: wife's wallet or something, which I
wouldn't, uh, because there's a higher value

701
00:47:21.036 --> 00:47:26.916
Speaker 3: there, um, it's not possible. And I
just laughed. There was, like, a moment of,

702
00:47:26.976 --> 00:47:31.596
Speaker 3: like, panic, just inner, inner
toddler. Like, I want my candy bar. And then I
just

703
00:47:31.636 --> 00:47:37.576
Speaker 3: laughed and just like, "F you.
[laughs] I win." [laughs] And it's

704
00:47:37.656 --> 00:47:42.816
Speaker 3: strange to say that to yourself. Um,
and I don't need to, to use that anymore 'cause

705
00:47:42.896 --> 00:47:48.076
Speaker 3: once you've had enough space, you
begin to retrain your brain. But I have
safeguards

706
00:47:48.096 --> 00:47:51.636
Speaker 3: like that in place for a lot of
things. My devices all turn off at specific
times.

707
00:47:51.676 --> 00:47:54.816
Speaker 3: They don't ask questions. They don't
give me warnings. They turn off. They don't

708
00:47:54.836 --> 00:47:59.336
Speaker 3: wait for documents to save. Black
screen. You're done. And they have rolling

709
00:47:59.396 --> 00:48:02.456
Speaker 3: turn-offs as well. So I have a whole
bunch of tools and stuff like this. These are

710
00:48:02.756 --> 00:48:07.896
Speaker 3: simpler versions. But that's the
basic premise, is that you

711
00:48:08.736 --> 00:48:13.856
Speaker 3: learn how you work, and you stop
relying on effort and guilt trips and shame to
get

712
00:48:13.896 --> 00:48:18.516
Speaker 3: things done, and you use different
kinds of rules and enforcements and

713
00:48:19.816 --> 00:48:24.956
Speaker 3: sort of self-behavioral engineering
to solve your problems rather than, "How can I

714
00:48:24.996 --> 00:48:29.456
Speaker 3: try harder? How can I do better next
time?" Uh, doing ... For me, doing better next

715
00:48:29.496 --> 00:48:35.112
Speaker 3: time looks like, how do I reengineer
my environment How do I set new

716
00:48:35.172 --> 00:48:41.072
Speaker 3: rules? How do I make this-- how do I
hack my own brain and life and behavior in

717
00:48:41.112 --> 00:48:45.112
Speaker 3: order to make it less likely or to
get the outcome I'm looking for next time?
Rather

718
00:48:45.172 --> 00:48:50.372
Speaker 3: than, how do I try harder? Because
that does- that's foreign language to me. I
don't

719
00:48:50.411 --> 00:48:53.892
Speaker 3: understand try harder. That doesn't
[laughs] this, this does not work. It doesn't

720
00:48:53.932 --> 00:48:55.332
Speaker 3: compute. Um-

721
00:48:55.352 --> 00:48:56.112
Speaker 2: [laughs]

722
00:48:56.212 --> 00:48:59.392
Speaker 3: I don't bring that level of severity
to every problem, but that's a, it's a good

723
00:48:59.432 --> 00:49:04.072
Speaker 3: example because it's an extreme
example. Um, but that sort of embodies the, the

724
00:49:04.152 --> 00:49:09.012
Speaker 3: general concept of what I've been
doing for a while, and now I'm trying to really

725
00:49:09.032 --> 00:49:14.572
Speaker 3: get the ideas out. I am getting the
tools out, but I want people to take the concept

726
00:49:14.632 --> 00:49:16.572
Speaker 3: and apply it to their lives. Um-

727
00:49:16.712 --> 00:49:22.432
Speaker 2: So how does Impossible Laboratories
work? Does someone sign up, and then, uh,

728
00:49:22.792 --> 00:49:27.232
Speaker 2: is it, do they have a discussion with
you? Is it like a coaching or counseling

729
00:49:27.292 --> 00:49:32.712
Speaker 2: session to determine what it is that
they need? Or do you have a, a variety of

730
00:49:32.812 --> 00:49:37.372
Speaker 2: options for people to, to pick from?
Are you trying to stop drinking? Are you trying

731
00:49:37.412 --> 00:49:42.812
Speaker 2: to stop smoking pot? Are you trying
to be a better husband? Whatever it is.

732
00:49:45.632 --> 00:49:49.992
Speaker 3: Uh, to be perfectly honest, it is an
area of interest for me. I have a lot of

733
00:49:50.052 --> 00:49:55.952
Speaker 3: things, knowledge and tools I want to
give away, and it's been hard to fit into like

734
00:49:56.052 --> 00:50:00.652
Speaker 3: a sort of capitalist perspective.
It's a website, right? I, so I have one tool out

735
00:50:00.712 --> 00:50:03.632
Speaker 3: right now that people can buy. I
think it's like 10 bucks. It's-

736
00:50:04.372 --> 00:50:04.392
Speaker 2: Oh.

737
00:50:04.412 --> 00:50:09.992
Speaker 3: That's Threads. It's a tool for
managing, uh, short-term and working attention.
Uh,

738
00:50:10.172 --> 00:50:15.912
Speaker 3: it's just an assistive tool that is
built specifically for the blind spots

739
00:50:16.052 --> 00:50:21.672
Speaker 3: of, uh, people with ADHD, with lo-
low object permanence. Uh, I won't get

740
00:50:21.732 --> 00:50:25.012
Speaker 3: into... You can go look at the
webpage, it's Impossible Laboratories. [laughs]
You

741
00:50:25.012 --> 00:50:27.032
Speaker 3: can see how it works. It's simple.
It's very simple.

742
00:50:27.052 --> 00:50:28.792
Speaker 2: Impossiblelaboratories.com.

743
00:50:29.332 --> 00:50:34.612
Speaker 3: Right. Um, so that tool is out. I
have a couple other like prototypes in various

744
00:50:34.672 --> 00:50:40.072
Speaker 3: stages of completion. I have things
that I work on myself. Um, so there's no real

745
00:50:40.112 --> 00:50:44.992
Speaker 3: distribution mechanism. It's
basically a, a think tank where I make stuff and

746
00:50:45.052 --> 00:50:49.012
Speaker 3: sometimes I share it. But I would
love to talk to people. I talk to a lot of
people.

747
00:50:49.072 --> 00:50:52.772
Speaker 3: So there's a contact form, you can
reach out to me. There's an email list for when
I

748
00:50:52.812 --> 00:50:57.412
Speaker 3: make new things and I distribute
them. But they're all around these things:

749
00:50:57.492 --> 00:51:02.432
Speaker 3: attention, uh, emotional connection
to what you're doing, motivation, impulse

750
00:51:02.472 --> 00:51:06.452
Speaker 3: control. And they're tools that are
just built assuming that trying harder doesn't

751
00:51:06.492 --> 00:51:10.892
Speaker 3: work. It's, it sucks. It feels bad.
You're tired of trying harder. Wouldn't it be

752
00:51:10.932 --> 00:51:15.672
Speaker 3: nice if just like your environment
and your tools themselves sort of understood

753
00:51:16.652 --> 00:51:22.352
Speaker 3: where you were going to predictably
fail and just nudge you usually, or be a very

754
00:51:22.412 --> 00:51:26.532
Speaker 3: hard guardrail in the case of like
the debit card or whatever. Um, whatever you

755
00:51:26.592 --> 00:51:31.592
Speaker 3: need, that's what I'm trying to
provide. But again, it's the ideas more than the

756
00:51:31.672 --> 00:51:34.132
Speaker 3: actual tools, but it's the tools too.

757
00:51:34.992 --> 00:51:38.472
Speaker 2: Well, that's very attractive if we
don't have to try harder

758
00:51:40.612 --> 00:51:44.752
Speaker 2: and we can rely on AI to steer us in
the right direction.

759
00:51:47.572 --> 00:51:52.712
Speaker 3: That's what got me excited. Again, a
few years ago when I, I started is that if my

760
00:51:52.732 --> 00:51:58.292
Speaker 3: computer could know what I'm doing at
all times, then I could change my, the way I

761
00:51:58.352 --> 00:52:03.052
Speaker 3: interact with it. I mean, the
punchline is that I've done a lot of other
things. I

762
00:52:03.092 --> 00:52:09.052
Speaker 3: don't need that level of service
anymore, uh, which is amusing. Um, but that's

763
00:52:09.092 --> 00:52:13.052
Speaker 3: fine. That's, that is personal
growth. That's even a better outcome. But some
people

764
00:52:13.112 --> 00:52:19.052
Speaker 3: do. Um, and I want them to be able to
take hold of these ideas

765
00:52:19.092 --> 00:52:23.252
Speaker 3: and tools and use them. I don't need
most of them the same way I used to,

766
00:52:23.572 --> 00:52:29.392
Speaker 3: fortunately. I found other paths to
goal. Um, but it's still a

767
00:52:29.452 --> 00:52:35.012
Speaker 3: meaningful idea that I think is... It
is a useful assistive tool

768
00:52:35.732 --> 00:52:40.912
Speaker 3: to get to a better place where you
don't need them so much anymore, and we should

769
00:52:40.952 --> 00:52:45.352
Speaker 3: all be changing our relationship with
our devices. And AI is one tool. This is a

770
00:52:45.412 --> 00:52:51.072
Speaker 3: positive use that I would love to see
more of, which is essentially your computer

771
00:52:51.111 --> 00:52:55.871
Speaker 3: working for you, uh, instead of
against you, and more being like a linebacker
for

772
00:52:55.931 --> 00:52:59.912
Speaker 3: attention, helping to guide your
attention and intention towards the things you

773
00:52:59.972 --> 00:53:04.052
Speaker 3: actually care about, and sort of
putting up friction, uh, when you're doing the

774
00:53:04.092 --> 00:53:09.472
Speaker 3: things that you know make you feel
bad that you truly don't wanna do. That is still

775
00:53:09.532 --> 00:53:10.772
Speaker 3: a big area of interest for me.

776
00:53:12.452 --> 00:53:17.652
Speaker 2: How old do you think someone needs to
be before they can start using tools like

777
00:53:17.712 --> 00:53:17.992
Speaker 2: this?

778
00:53:20.052 --> 00:53:25.952
Speaker 3: Uh, zero. [laughs] I, I mean,
there's-- If you're interacting with technology,

779
00:53:28.032 --> 00:53:33.832
Speaker 3: unfortunately you, you can't be doing
it with no plan anymore. I mean, I think even

780
00:53:33.872 --> 00:53:37.712
Speaker 3: most... Like this has become
mainstream. Most people have figured out that
their

781
00:53:37.772 --> 00:53:41.492
Speaker 3: smartphone is not really for them.
It's not really on their side, and they should

782
00:53:41.652 --> 00:53:46.812
Speaker 3: treat it with great skepticism. I've
gone a, a good deal farther than that. Um,

783
00:53:48.172 --> 00:53:51.412
Speaker 3: so they're not really built for you,
and that's a big problem with a lot of these

784
00:53:51.452 --> 00:53:55.672
Speaker 3: things is I'm talking about trying to
slap an adapter onto something that is

785
00:53:55.732 --> 00:54:00.692
Speaker 3: fundamentally designed to take your
attention and put it to somebody else's usually

786
00:54:00.752 --> 00:54:06.432
Speaker 3: capitalistic ends that are generally
not great for you. And your attention

787
00:54:06.552 --> 00:54:11.692
Speaker 3: and your intention, it's just, you
know, energy behind your attention, is really
all

788
00:54:11.732 --> 00:54:16.192
Speaker 3: you have. That's the only real
control you have in the world that you can claim
to

789
00:54:16.232 --> 00:54:20.192
Speaker 3: have control at all. That's it. If
you don't have attention or you don't have the

790
00:54:20.232 --> 00:54:23.632
Speaker 3: ability to put will towards
something, you've got nothing. You're out of
control.

791
00:54:23.852 --> 00:54:27.352
Speaker 3: Like you're just on rails. You're on,
you're in somebody else's story, whether you

792
00:54:27.392 --> 00:54:31.792
Speaker 3: realize it or not. So I think that
this is a fundamental problem, but nobody should

793
00:54:31.812 --> 00:54:35.932
Speaker 3: be interacting with any form of
technology, especially not smartphones or
tablets

794
00:54:36.972 --> 00:54:41.392
Speaker 3: With no plan. Like I've dramatically
changed. With the way I interact with

795
00:54:41.432 --> 00:54:46.432
Speaker 3: technology, even as a technologist,
it looks very different from what the average

796
00:54:46.492 --> 00:54:47.112
Speaker 3: person does.

797
00:54:48.332 --> 00:54:53.111
Speaker 2: How? How is it different? What do you
do that's different than maybe how I interact

798
00:54:53.152 --> 00:54:53.732
Speaker 2: with my phone?

799
00:54:55.492 --> 00:54:58.752
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I haven't had a smartphone
for a long time. I have one temporarily now

800
00:54:58.792 --> 00:55:00.472
Speaker 3: 'cause my dumb phone broke.

801
00:55:01.152 --> 00:55:01.292
Speaker 2: Oh.

802
00:55:01.292 --> 00:55:07.132
Speaker 3: Um, I had a light phone, which is
more or less a, a flip phone with an

803
00:55:07.272 --> 00:55:12.872
Speaker 3: even [laughs] greater ... It does
all, it does calls, it does texts. That's it.
Um,

804
00:55:13.372 --> 00:55:17.552
Speaker 3: it doesn't do anything else. I don't
want it to do anything else. My computers all

805
00:55:17.592 --> 00:55:23.472
Speaker 3: turn off at specific times. They all
... I have very deliberate rules.

806
00:55:23.632 --> 00:55:28.592
Speaker 3: When I play video games, they're on
hard timers. Like anything that could pull me

807
00:55:28.672 --> 00:55:33.592
Speaker 3: in, uh, can't. There are no leads, so
I've sort of buried the leads to a lot of

808
00:55:33.632 --> 00:55:36.852
Speaker 3: these things. I have no notifications
of any kind. No sounds. The only way to

809
00:55:36.952 --> 00:55:40.912
Speaker 3: actually reach me is to make a phone
call. That's, so text messages don't make

810
00:55:40.952 --> 00:55:45.952
Speaker 3: sounds. There's no notification dots.
It's all a blank slate. All of these things

811
00:55:46.012 --> 00:55:51.012
Speaker 3: are redesigned in such a way that, A,
the only time I use them is when I initiate

812
00:55:51.052 --> 00:55:56.692
Speaker 3: the action from something internal.
So it's not something else is pulling me in. And

813
00:55:56.752 --> 00:56:02.252
Speaker 3: the, the second is that they can't
keep me pulled in. Like, uh, so the podcast
apps,

814
00:56:03.092 --> 00:56:07.792
Speaker 3: I have firewall blockers that make
specific kinds of websites very difficult for me

815
00:56:07.872 --> 00:56:12.512
Speaker 3: to, to go to. Any kind of social
media, that is all blocked in like three
different

816
00:56:12.572 --> 00:56:17.132
Speaker 3: ways. I can undo it, but it takes
five to 10 minutes to undo it all. And guess
what?

817
00:56:17.172 --> 00:56:21.252
Speaker 3: When you're sitting at home at 5:00
after work, turns out you don't wanna do 10

818
00:56:21.292 --> 00:56:25.112
Speaker 3: minutes [laughs] of little sys-
system admin work to undo your safeguards to go
look

819
00:56:25.152 --> 00:56:28.832
Speaker 3: at Reddit. Like [laughs] like eh,
whatever. You just don't.

820
00:56:28.852 --> 00:56:28.853
Speaker 2: Yeah.

821
00:56:28.872 --> 00:56:30.872
Speaker 3: You close your computer and you go
walk outside.

822
00:56:31.112 --> 00:56:31.113
Speaker 2: Yeah.

823
00:56:31.132 --> 00:56:32.652
Speaker 3: That seems like a small thing, but-

824
00:56:33.392 --> 00:56:33.412
Speaker 2: It works

825
00:56:33.412 --> 00:56:36.972
Speaker 3: ... that's how it works. There's no
icons. There's no way for anything to pull me

826
00:56:37.032 --> 00:56:42.132
Speaker 3: in. Nothing happens automatically.
It's just I open my computer, it's quiet, it's

827
00:56:42.192 --> 00:56:46.092
Speaker 3: still. It waits for me to do things.
There's no ads. Everything is blocked. There's

828
00:56:46.232 --> 00:56:51.652
Speaker 3: nothing. Nothing. There's no news. No
news. Absolutely no news anywhere.

829
00:56:52.132 --> 00:56:57.652
Speaker 3: That's, infotainment is horrific, uh,
for what it does to us. I don't have any of

830
00:56:57.692 --> 00:57:03.192
Speaker 3: this. As a result, I don't have any
of the like craving or needing habits to make

831
00:57:03.232 --> 00:57:08.212
Speaker 3: myself feel better or, or just
because I'm interested, uh, to go open these
devices

832
00:57:08.232 --> 00:57:13.272
Speaker 3: and go do those things because I've
deadened those responses. So I have a different

833
00:57:13.312 --> 00:57:17.572
Speaker 3: relationship with devices. They're
just tools again now. Uh, for the most part. I'm

834
00:57:17.652 --> 00:57:21.892
Speaker 3: a human being [laughs] and I have
flaws like anybody, but there's enough friction

835
00:57:21.952 --> 00:57:22.432
Speaker 3: there that,

836
00:57:24.012 --> 00:57:25.792
Speaker 3: yeah, I just, it's changed my entire-

837
00:57:25.812 --> 00:57:28.032
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that takes a lot of
willpower.

838
00:57:29.932 --> 00:57:35.192
Speaker 3: It does. And that is the correct use
for willpower is to f- design strategies and

839
00:57:35.272 --> 00:57:40.012
Speaker 3: systems to stop using it. That is, in
fact, the only good use for willpower when it

840
00:57:40.072 --> 00:57:45.872
Speaker 3: comes to like solving problems like
this is willpower is not something you should

841
00:57:45.912 --> 00:57:50.192
Speaker 3: rely on. Like that is the approach I
have taken, and that has worked way better.

842
00:57:50.472 --> 00:57:54.792
Speaker 3: Willpower is for picking yourself
back up and deciding how you're going ... I have
a

843
00:57:54.852 --> 00:57:58.712
Speaker 3: rule for that. It's literally in my
list of rules that I review every morning.

844
00:57:58.872 --> 00:58:03.232
Speaker 3: [laughs] As, as like, as nerdy as
that sounds, I have a spreadsheet that is my
rules

845
00:58:03.272 --> 00:58:07.812
Speaker 3: and systems. I review it every
morning. It's a master habit. And one of them is
I

846
00:58:07.872 --> 00:58:12.832
Speaker 3: close the door behind me after, uh,
you know, making a bad choice. So if I break one

847
00:58:12.852 --> 00:58:18.832
Speaker 3: of my rules that matters, the only
penance I have to make up for it is just make

848
00:58:18.852 --> 00:58:22.852
Speaker 3: it harder. Just add a little bit of
friction. Just make it a little bit harder to

849
00:58:22.912 --> 00:58:26.912
Speaker 3: not repeat that thing. Whatever it
was. You stayed up until 2:00 AM watching anime.

850
00:58:27.512 --> 00:58:32.592
Speaker 3: Cool. No problem. All is forgiven.
The only thing you have to do in penance is make

851
00:58:32.632 --> 00:58:37.052
Speaker 3: it a little bit harder to repeat that
same bad behavior next time, and we're good.

852
00:58:37.512 --> 00:58:41.432
Speaker 3: And just by applying that over and
over again, and that is the correct use for

853
00:58:41.472 --> 00:58:45.932
Speaker 3: willpower is how do I make this a
little harder? So now I have adapters that plug

854
00:58:45.992 --> 00:58:50.912
Speaker 3: into my wall, and you have to push
the button for a specific amount of time before

855
00:58:50.932 --> 00:58:55.571
Speaker 3: the entire TV turns off, the whole
wall outlet turns off. Uh, so I press one hour,

856
00:58:56.052 --> 00:59:00.252
Speaker 3: and then you're sitting there. The
whole room goes dark. Yes, I can get back up and

857
00:59:00.312 --> 00:59:04.292
Speaker 3: press the button and wait for it to
turn back on, find the channel. You're not

858
00:59:04.332 --> 00:59:06.432
Speaker 3: gonna. You're gonna go to bed. Um-

859
00:59:06.492 --> 00:59:06.652
Speaker 2: Right

860
00:59:06.652 --> 00:59:12.652
Speaker 3: ... so that's it. Like that's how
everything changed. It looks like a lot from

861
00:59:12.692 --> 00:59:16.132
Speaker 3: the outside, and I'm not covering
probably like 100 different things, but that's
how

862
00:59:16.172 --> 00:59:19.532
Speaker 3: it all came about. It's just that
simple principle.

863
00:59:23.572 --> 00:59:27.572
Speaker 2: I find it very interesting that
you're just talking about not relying on
willpower,

864
00:59:27.692 --> 00:59:33.512
Speaker 2: which is what... And you bring up
such a good point about you can only try so

865
00:59:33.552 --> 00:59:37.172
Speaker 2: hard and you can't try any harder.
You're absolutely right. And then the
frustration

866
00:59:37.232 --> 00:59:40.352
Speaker 2: comes in that I'm not trying hard
enough, but you're trying as hard as you can h-

867
00:59:40.572 --> 00:59:44.632
Speaker 2: humanly try. Like this is it. This is
all I have inside of me. And then it's not

868
00:59:44.672 --> 00:59:49.372
Speaker 2: good enough. And then you just
spiral. And so what you're doing is you're
preventing

869
00:59:49.452 --> 00:59:51.352
Speaker 2: people from going into that spiral.

870
00:59:52.892 --> 00:59:57.652
Speaker 3: That spiral is actually
self-indulgent, as strange as that sounds.

871
00:59:58.012 --> 00:59:58.272
Speaker 2: It is.

872
00:59:58.272 --> 01:00:02.492
Speaker 3: It is re-enabling. That seems like an
insane ... You get it. But that seems like

873
01:00:02.532 --> 01:00:06.732
Speaker 3: an... I know you do. You've given me
the advice [laughs] not, not to do that. Um-

874
01:00:06.992 --> 01:00:07.432
Speaker 2: [laughs]

875
01:00:07.452 --> 01:00:12.532
Speaker 3: ... but that's, it is
self-perpetuating. If I were to stay up l- two,
till 2:00 AM

876
01:00:13.032 --> 01:00:17.012
Speaker 3: to watch anime, I have to get up
early to go to work or whatever, I'm angry.
Right?

877
01:00:17.132 --> 01:00:22.872
Speaker 3: That anger, that sort of
self-loathing is fuel to recreate that same
cycle

878
01:00:22.932 --> 01:00:28.392
Speaker 3: again. Like it is, you get more of
it, not less of it, and it's misdirected. It's,

879
01:00:29.192 --> 01:00:33.312
Speaker 3: you are actually like, you know, to
take a sort of, you know, Daoist sort of point

880
01:00:33.352 --> 01:00:39.016
Speaker 3: of view, you are like creating like a
whiplash effect. When you

881
01:00:39.456 --> 01:00:43.256
Speaker 3: beat yourself up like that, you are
now, like, more fragile. You trust yourself

882
01:00:43.296 --> 01:00:44.896
Speaker 3: less. You're angry at yourself less.

883
01:00:45.316 --> 01:00:45.436
Speaker 2: Yeah.

884
01:00:45.476 --> 01:00:48.696
Speaker 3: You're more stressed out. And what do
you do when you feel bad and you're stressed

885
01:00:48.776 --> 01:00:52.476
Speaker 3: out and you're angry? You make more
bad choices, like staying up [laughs] late and

886
01:00:52.516 --> 01:00:54.736
Speaker 3: watching anime, and you're gonna do
it again.

887
01:00:55.216 --> 01:00:55.217
Speaker 2: Yeah.

888
01:00:55.276 --> 01:00:57.356
Speaker 3: And you're gonna hate yourself even
more until it becomes-

889
01:00:57.416 --> 01:00:57.417
Speaker 2: Yeah

890
01:00:57.416 --> 01:00:58.096
Speaker 3: ... a complex.

891
01:00:58.276 --> 01:00:59.316
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes.

892
01:01:00.016 --> 01:01:00.396
Speaker 3: It's not enough-

893
01:01:00.536 --> 01:01:00.576
Speaker 2: Yes

894
01:01:00.576 --> 01:01:04.076
Speaker 3: ... to let, just let go. You also
have to do something about it, but with a cool

895
01:01:04.136 --> 01:01:04.396
Speaker 3: head.

896
01:01:06.176 --> 01:01:10.276
Speaker 2: Yeah. You are describing just about
everybody. Um, uh, just about everybody can

897
01:01:10.316 --> 01:01:12.116
Speaker 2: really identify with what you're
saying.

898
01:01:14.316 --> 01:01:20.056
Speaker 2: Now, what made you reach out and
connect with me a year or two ago?

899
01:01:23.176 --> 01:01:28.516
Speaker 3: I don't know. Um, I s- will shorthand
it to

900
01:01:28.616 --> 01:01:34.516
Speaker 3: intuition, and since then I have
tried to learn how to trust that sense a lot
more,

901
01:01:35.516 --> 01:01:41.396
Speaker 3: uh, as a directive force, like, on a
long timeline in life, to know what steps to

902
01:01:41.456 --> 01:01:47.016
Speaker 3: take or what matters. And then, and
so I, on a whim, I think I heard you in an

903
01:01:47.096 --> 01:01:51.616
Speaker 3: interview. Uh, it may have been with,
with Mike. Uh, I can't remember.

904
01:01:51.996 --> 01:01:53.576
Speaker 2: Mike Clelland, the owl guy?

905
01:01:54.076 --> 01:01:59.576
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I think so. I can't
remember, though. Um, and I just, on a whim, I'm

906
01:01:59.616 --> 01:02:05.036
Speaker 3: like, "You know, I'm gonna call her,"
or, "I'm gonna email her and see if, uh, you

907
01:02:05.056 --> 01:02:09.336
Speaker 3: know, she does sessions or coaching
or something." I don't know why. I just feel

908
01:02:09.376 --> 01:02:12.316
Speaker 3: like at the very least it's gonna be
funny and, you know, no offense-

909
01:02:12.336 --> 01:02:12.337
Speaker 2: [laughs]

910
01:02:12.356 --> 01:02:17.196
Speaker 3: ... she'll be a kook, and it'll be a
great story. Uh, or, you know, I did come in,

911
01:02:17.256 --> 01:02:22.016
Speaker 3: like, sincerely, like, but I hope
it's, you know, useful and interesting and I, I

912
01:02:22.076 --> 01:02:27.256
Speaker 3: grow in some way. I, I definitely
came in skeptical but, like, sort of positive
and,

913
01:02:27.296 --> 01:02:29.876
Speaker 3: and hoping for the best, right? You
never know what you're gonna get.

914
01:02:30.336 --> 01:02:30.516
Speaker 2: Yeah.

915
01:02:30.616 --> 01:02:36.376
Speaker 3: Um, and so I've ... So I am a, a
client multiple times,

916
01:02:36.736 --> 01:02:41.116
Speaker 3: uh, you know, with you. I consider
you to be, you know, a friend from afar and-

917
01:02:41.656 --> 01:02:41.657
Speaker 2: Aw

918
01:02:41.656 --> 01:02:43.996
Speaker 3: ... one of, of many coaches. Um-

919
01:02:44.356 --> 01:02:44.816
Speaker 2: Thank you

920
01:02:44.896 --> 01:02:50.856
Speaker 3: ... and I hope to continue so. But
yeah, I did, um, I think we did the,

921
01:02:50.896 --> 01:02:52.416
Speaker 3: the soul purpose session first.

922
01:02:52.816 --> 01:02:52.976
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

923
01:02:53.076 --> 01:02:57.116
Speaker 3: Uh, I pulled it up here, uh, 'cause I
did, I wanted to talk about it because it had

924
01:02:57.176 --> 01:02:59.956
Speaker 3: a profound effect on my life. If you
don't mind.

925
01:02:59.956 --> 01:03:00.016
Speaker 2: Good.

926
01:03:00.056 --> 01:03:03.256
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is proprietary
from [laughs] your end.

927
01:03:03.856 --> 01:03:05.236
Speaker 2: I would like to hear that.

928
01:03:05.976 --> 01:03:10.616
Speaker 3: So we've done a couple since. Um, but
I have the first one pulled up in front of me.

929
01:03:11.096 --> 01:03:12.436
Speaker 3: I was in a place where

930
01:03:14.016 --> 01:03:17.516
Speaker 3: I had figured out a lot of ways to be
good, like, you know, at the small scale, on

931
01:03:17.816 --> 01:03:23.436
Speaker 3: the dai- daily life sort of way. I
knew how to manipulate myself and

932
01:03:23.936 --> 01:03:29.636
Speaker 3: engineer my life and environment to
be good or to be relatively stable, or I found

933
01:03:29.656 --> 01:03:32.076
Speaker 3: out how to be happy, right? I had
figured that out. Took a long time. [laughs] It

934
01:03:32.116 --> 01:03:35.816
Speaker 3: took a number of years, but I found
out how to be happy on a r- pretty reliable

935
01:03:35.876 --> 01:03:41.396
Speaker 3: basis or to get back to that place
quickly. But I didn't know what to do

936
01:03:41.876 --> 01:03:46.516
Speaker 3: with my life. Like, job pretty good,
relationship pretty good. Like, everything's in

937
01:03:46.556 --> 01:03:51.596
Speaker 3: place, but I'm missing ... Meaning
and purpose is definitely lacking. I wanna do

938
01:03:51.656 --> 01:03:55.096
Speaker 3: something, but I don't know what. I
have all this energy. I don't know where to put

939
01:03:55.136 --> 01:04:00.156
Speaker 3: it. Um, and I feel like I should be
using it. Needed some sort of high-level

940
01:04:00.196 --> 01:04:04.656
Speaker 3: guidance. So, you know, that's what
this was all about. Um, and you were

941
01:04:06.336 --> 01:04:10.196
Speaker 3: ... So we, you know, we did the whole
session, and a couple of ... I've, I'm looking

942
01:04:10.236 --> 01:04:16.136
Speaker 3: at what you wrote down in the
session. Um, and it was very profound, and

943
01:04:16.176 --> 01:04:20.256
Speaker 3: it, it changed the course of what I
explored. I wouldn't say that I thought

944
01:04:20.316 --> 01:04:25.276
Speaker 3: channeling was BS before we met. I
felt that if there were any, there probably

945
01:04:25.296 --> 01:04:29.636
Speaker 3: weren't very many that were, were
qualified. Most were charlatans, and that there

946
01:04:29.696 --> 01:04:35.536
Speaker 3: probably wasn't a lot of information
there. Um, but it was just

947
01:04:36.416 --> 01:04:41.776
Speaker 3: spot on. Like, really, really eerie.
From the, the first sentence. Uh, the first

948
01:04:41.816 --> 01:04:44.476
Speaker 3: sentence is, "This one can smell BS a
mile away."

949
01:04:44.476 --> 01:04:45.396
Speaker 2: [laughs]

950
01:04:45.416 --> 01:04:49.656
Speaker 3: [laughs] I, I just couldn't help but
laugh, and, like, that is exactly what I was

951
01:04:49.696 --> 01:04:54.136
Speaker 3: thinking. "Don't ask if you don't
want ... Don't ask him if you don't want to know

952
01:04:54.655 --> 01:05:00.496
Speaker 3: the truth." [laughs] Like, that is
word for word, and we did basically

953
01:05:00.556 --> 01:05:01.976
Speaker 3: no interaction before talking.

954
01:05:02.496 --> 01:05:02.616
Speaker 2: No.

955
01:05:02.736 --> 01:05:05.336
Speaker 3: As, as little as po- you didn't want
to interact with me at all.

956
01:05:05.616 --> 01:05:07.156
Speaker 2: I did not want to. Mm-mm.

957
01:05:07.256 --> 01:05:12.736
Speaker 3: And this whole thing is, was not only
a perfect description of how I felt and my

958
01:05:12.796 --> 01:05:18.036
Speaker 3: approach to life and what I felt I
was good at, but it was clearly from a

959
01:05:18.676 --> 01:05:23.276
Speaker 3: third-party lens that I won't say
didn't care about me, but we'll say is
objective,

960
01:05:23.856 --> 01:05:29.176
Speaker 3: right? It's unbiased, right? It ... I
felt I was getting the unvarnished truth,

961
01:05:29.376 --> 01:05:34.896
Speaker 3: [laughs] uh, good or bad, right? So
in a way that I would not have described myself

962
01:05:34.936 --> 01:05:37.856
Speaker 3: but wouldn't disagree with. And

963
01:05:39.516 --> 01:05:44.836
Speaker 3: I got a lot of high-level direction.
And more than that, I know it sounds silly, but

964
01:05:44.936 --> 01:05:50.536
Speaker 3: a lot of what I learned I would have
known even then, but the problem, especially

965
01:05:50.576 --> 01:05:56.556
Speaker 3: with me, is not coming up with ideas
of what to do. It is having the sort

966
01:05:56.596 --> 01:06:02.316
Speaker 3: of self-trust and certainty that what
I've decided is the right one.

967
01:06:02.336 --> 01:06:08.116
Speaker 3: [laughs] Uh, or, you know, believing
in the ideas or thoughts I've already had.

968
01:06:08.516 --> 01:06:13.696
Speaker 3: And a lot of this was reaffirming
that, okay, well, now that I've heard it from
the

969
01:06:13.756 --> 01:06:19.496
Speaker 3: outside, like the, the far outside,
uh, who am I to say no? To have asked for help

970
01:06:19.576 --> 01:06:25.396
Speaker 3: and to be given, you know, new
answers for sure, but also, uh,

971
01:06:25.516 --> 01:06:28.656
Speaker 3: reaffirming ones. And that really is
what gave me the confidence that-

972
01:06:29.556 --> 01:06:29.636
Speaker 2: Mm

973
01:06:29.636 --> 01:06:33.056
Speaker 3: ... there was really something here.
Of course, I had already had, you know, a UFO

974
01:06:33.116 --> 01:06:37.576
Speaker 3: sighting, so I knew that I was
already forcing myself to be open and humble.
Um-

975
01:06:38.316 --> 01:06:38.496
Speaker 2: Yeah

976
01:06:38.516 --> 01:06:42.296
Speaker 3: ... but it was the combination of, of
new and reaffirming information that, that

977
01:06:42.356 --> 01:06:47.236
Speaker 3: told me, "Dang, there's something
here." [laughs] This was really helpful, and,
uh,

978
01:06:47.476 --> 01:06:50.856
Speaker 3: she knows, uh, what she's talking
about. You also just give pretty good advice

979
01:06:50.916 --> 01:06:51.296
Speaker 3: yourself.

980
01:06:52.176 --> 01:06:56.776
Speaker 2: Mm. Aw, thank you, Stephen. I'm so
grateful that you shared that. That means the

981
01:06:56.816 --> 01:06:57.576
Speaker 2: world to me.

982
01:06:59.256 --> 01:06:59.496
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

983
01:06:59.556 --> 01:06:59.756
Speaker 3: Yeah.

984
01:07:00.636 --> 01:07:00.736
Speaker 2: Mm.

985
01:07:00.836 --> 01:07:04.836
Speaker 3: I think it was money well spent-

986
01:07:05.476 --> 01:07:05.816
Speaker 2: Mm

987
01:07:06.256 --> 01:07:12.016
Speaker 3: ... um, to answer one of the most
profound and, like, really painful problems in
my

988
01:07:12.076 --> 01:07:13.216
Speaker 3: life, which is,

989
01:07:15.456 --> 01:07:20.336
Speaker 3: what am I doing here? Like, I wanted
to decide, right? I didn't wanna be told. I

990
01:07:20.356 --> 01:07:22.856
Speaker 3: don't, I don't like to be told what
to do, but at the same time,

991
01:07:24.896 --> 01:07:29.296
Speaker 3: I want some direction, and I want to
know the potential and the options and, you

992
01:07:29.316 --> 01:07:33.676
Speaker 3: know, where I'm falling short and
where I'm psyching myself out. And it was

993
01:07:33.776 --> 01:07:39.216
Speaker 3: incredibly valuable to find out, you
know, from an outside source. You'd call it a

994
01:07:39.316 --> 01:07:42.696
Speaker 3: second opinion. [laughs] Second
opinion with a lot of very different perspective

995
01:07:42.756 --> 01:07:45.156
Speaker 3: from your own I think is a good way
of looking at this.

996
01:07:45.856 --> 01:07:46.936
Speaker 2: Yeah, an outside second-

997
01:07:46.956 --> 01:07:47.336
Speaker 3: Because it does care about you

998
01:07:47.336 --> 01:07:49.456
Speaker 2: ... maybe third opinion. I don't
know.

999
01:07:49.456 --> 01:07:51.336
Speaker 3: It's true. It was-

1000
01:07:51.476 --> 01:07:51.556
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

1001
01:07:51.556 --> 01:07:52.656
Speaker 3: ... good to see.

1002
01:07:54.956 --> 01:07:59.996
Speaker 3: Here is a, an amazing, um, direction
that you can go in,

1003
01:08:01.016 --> 01:08:06.796
Speaker 3: um, which is... Here, I'm gonna pull
up the, the punchline, and then, you know,

1004
01:08:06.976 --> 01:08:07.676
Speaker 3: we'll leave it there.

1005
01:08:08.596 --> 01:08:10.196
Speaker 2: The punchline. [laughs]

1006
01:08:10.336 --> 01:08:15.556
Speaker 3: The, there was... not that there was
only one punchline. Um, I'll have to do it from

1007
01:08:15.576 --> 01:08:16.496
Speaker 3: memory, 'cause I can't,

1008
01:08:18.056 --> 01:08:23.536
Speaker 3: I can't find the, the exact quote.
Here it is. "I'm

1009
01:08:23.616 --> 01:08:29.136
Speaker 3: here more or less to help humans
realizing, help humans

1010
01:08:29.856 --> 01:08:30.516
Speaker 3: realize

1011
01:08:33.336 --> 01:08:37.896
Speaker 3: their nature as math and magical
beings." Something along those lines. I don't
have

1012
01:08:37.936 --> 01:08:39.836
Speaker 3: the exact quote here. I'm sorry.

1013
01:08:40.036 --> 01:08:40.236
Speaker 2: Math?

1014
01:08:40.776 --> 01:08:44.956
Speaker 3: Or, yeah. Basically, we're all just
made of math and magic, and I'm s- just showed

1015
01:08:45.016 --> 01:08:47.956
Speaker 3: up here to help people realize that.
It's really vague, right?

1016
01:08:48.296 --> 01:08:48.297
Speaker 2: Math and magic.

1017
01:08:48.296 --> 01:08:53.136
Speaker 3: But that's exactly... What a perfect
description. I never would've used those words,

1018
01:08:53.316 --> 01:08:57.516
Speaker 3: and yet the moment I heard it, I'm
like, "That's all-encompassing. That is a
perfect

1019
01:08:57.556 --> 01:08:58.996
Speaker 3: way of putting this." Um-

1020
01:08:59.076 --> 01:09:00.216
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember that.

1021
01:09:00.676 --> 01:09:06.016
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm all about, math
and magic. Uh, I insist on testing weird stuff,

1022
01:09:06.996 --> 01:09:12.776
Speaker 3: but also accountability to, like, uh,
skepticism and humility and some

1023
01:09:12.856 --> 01:09:17.056
Speaker 3: openness at the same time, I think.
Um, I wanna bring those together, and it, it

1024
01:09:17.116 --> 01:09:21.816
Speaker 3: really set me on that path, and I'm
having a lot of fun, and I'm excited to see

1025
01:09:21.836 --> 01:09:22.316
Speaker 3: where it goes.

1026
01:09:22.636 --> 01:09:26.856
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Yeah. Well, it's
always a pleasure to talk with you. How can
people

1027
01:09:26.916 --> 01:09:27.936
Speaker 2: get in touch with you?

1028
01:09:29.496 --> 01:09:33.496
Speaker 3: Uh, just go to the website,
impossiblabratories.com. There's, like, a
contact form.

1029
01:09:33.576 --> 01:09:34.576
Speaker 3: I think my email's on there.

1030
01:09:35.116 --> 01:09:35.117
Speaker 2: Okay.

1031
01:09:35.136 --> 01:09:36.736
Speaker 3: You can ask me about anything.

1032
01:09:37.256 --> 01:09:41.476
Speaker 2: So you're, you don't, you're not on
Instagram or YouTube or... Yeah, you're not.

1033
01:09:41.636 --> 01:09:41.896
Speaker 2: [laughs]

1034
01:09:41.936 --> 01:09:44.296
Speaker 3: What do you think? [laughs]

1035
01:09:44.436 --> 01:09:46.416
Speaker 2: Just double-checking. No.

1036
01:09:46.496 --> 01:09:46.776
Speaker 3: No.

1037
01:09:47.116 --> 01:09:49.156
Speaker 2: Just impossiblabratories.com.

1038
01:09:50.276 --> 01:09:54.996
Speaker 3: Yeah. There is a, there is a podcast,
um, that'll probably be featured in a

1039
01:09:55.036 --> 01:09:56.796
Speaker 3: newsletter at some point. Uh, so I
do-

1040
01:09:56.836 --> 01:09:58.576
Speaker 2: And you are on other podcasts

1041
01:09:58.836 --> 01:09:58.936
Speaker 3: ... podcast and emails.

1042
01:09:58.936 --> 01:09:59.776
Speaker 2: You are... Excuse me?

1043
01:10:00.496 --> 01:10:04.436
Speaker 3: Yeah. The, I send out podcast
episodes and, and newsletter emails, so I'm
willing to

1044
01:10:04.476 --> 01:10:06.156
Speaker 3: do that. Uh, but that's about it.

1045
01:10:06.236 --> 01:10:06.616
Speaker 2: Oh, you have a newsletter?

1046
01:10:07.476 --> 01:10:09.916
Speaker 3: Yeah. It doesn't go out very often,
but when I-

1047
01:10:10.096 --> 01:10:10.097
Speaker 2: Oh

1048
01:10:10.096 --> 01:10:10.936
Speaker 3: ... I've got thoughts.

1049
01:10:11.756 --> 01:10:11.916
Speaker 2: Oh.

1050
01:10:14.256 --> 01:10:18.516
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, uh, all right. I'd like
to be on your newsletter.

1051
01:10:19.896 --> 01:10:20.136
Speaker 3: Okay.

1052
01:10:20.156 --> 01:10:25.796
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. All right. Okay, Stephen.
Thank you with all my heart for

1053
01:10:25.876 --> 01:10:30.616
Speaker 2: talking with me today. Uh, this could
easily go for another hour. I really don't

1054
01:10:30.636 --> 01:10:34.676
Speaker 2: wanna stop it here, but I'm running
out of time, 'cause we haven't even touched on

1055
01:10:34.716 --> 01:10:36.896
Speaker 2: your UFO story. Maybe-

1056
01:10:36.916 --> 01:10:38.176
Speaker 3: Or remote viewing or anything.

1057
01:10:38.956 --> 01:10:39.076
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1058
01:10:39.076 --> 01:10:39.077
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1059
01:10:39.176 --> 01:10:40.956
Speaker 2: Oh, a part two. Can we do a part two?

1060
01:10:41.736 --> 01:10:41.996
Speaker 3: Sure.

1061
01:10:42.796 --> 01:10:47.236
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, 'cause I, I know I and
others would love to hear about your remote
viewing.

1062
01:10:47.516 --> 01:10:49.356
Speaker 2: That's really become the thing to do
now.

1063
01:10:50.676 --> 01:10:54.536
Speaker 3: Yeah. That would be my perspective as
an intermediate practitioner. Right? What was

1064
01:10:54.576 --> 01:10:56.756
Speaker 3: it like to go from know nothing to
intermediate?

1065
01:10:56.976 --> 01:10:57.236
Speaker 2: Yes.

1066
01:10:57.256 --> 01:11:00.596
Speaker 3: I don't claim to be a master, but I
think that's useful for people who are just

1067
01:11:00.636 --> 01:11:01.036
Speaker 3: beginners.

1068
01:11:02.156 --> 01:11:03.796
Speaker 2: Right. And you think everybody can do
it?

1069
01:11:05.316 --> 01:11:08.956
Speaker 3: Absolutely. It has a lot of overlap
with your, your channeling techniques, and I

1070
01:11:08.976 --> 01:11:12.536
Speaker 3: would encourage people to go look at
those, those videos on your, your YouTube page,

1071
01:11:12.616 --> 01:11:12.916
Speaker 3: I think.

1072
01:11:13.196 --> 01:11:13.316
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

1073
01:11:13.356 --> 01:11:17.276
Speaker 3: There's a great... Um, there's a lot
of overlap with how it works. This is just a

1074
01:11:17.336 --> 01:11:21.756
Speaker 3: very... It's a different approach.
We'll call it, like, 60 to 70% related. There's
a

1075
01:11:21.796 --> 01:11:22.676
Speaker 3: lot of cross-training.

1076
01:11:23.716 --> 01:11:28.056
Speaker 2: Yeah, because are we plugging into
that same conscious field? Is that what's going

1077
01:11:28.116 --> 01:11:28.276
Speaker 2: on?

1078
01:11:28.436 --> 01:11:32.716
Speaker 3: Pretty same underlying, like,
methodology. You're just working with it in a

1079
01:11:32.776 --> 01:11:37.976
Speaker 3: different way, um, trying to do
different things. Uh, so yeah. It's a bit...

1080
01:11:38.336 --> 01:11:39.676
Speaker 3: There's, there's a lot of overlap.

1081
01:11:41.376 --> 01:11:45.976
Speaker 2: Okay. All right, then. Looking
forward to a part two. Thank you, Stephen. Thank
you

1082
01:11:46.076 --> 01:11:47.716
Speaker 2: everybody for joining us.

1083
01:11:47.716 --> 01:11:59.016
Speaker 2: [gentle music]