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Speaker 1: [gentle music] Cosmic

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Speaker 1: consciousness, extraterrestrials and
UFOs, sacred geometry,

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Speaker 1: ancient civilizations, spiritual
connection, the quantum universe.

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Speaker 1: All of these topics and so much more
with your host Sev Talk on

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Speaker 1: Alien Spirit with Sev.

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Speaker 2: Hello. Welcome to Alien Spirit. I'm
Sev. My guest today

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Speaker 2: is Stephen Shrembeck. He's the
founder of an innovative platform called
Impossible

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Speaker 2: Laboratories, creating software that
makes being human easier. It started

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Speaker 2: three years ago with software for
people with ADHD or on the autism

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Speaker 2: spectrum, and now the platform is
focused on designing tools to develop

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Speaker 2: self-control without relying on
willpower. Stephen is a

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Speaker 2: professional software developer for
well-known companies, including Amazon and Home

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Speaker 2: Depot, and right now he's with Cox
Automotive. He has been building AI models for

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Speaker 2: 10 years, writing and producing audio
fiction, meditating, and is a UFO witness.

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Speaker 2: Stephen's work bridges AI research
with ancient contemplative practices, pushing us

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Speaker 2: to ask the big questions. Can
machines or AI become conscious? What role does

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Speaker 2: human stillness play in the digital
future? How do UFOs and

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Speaker 2: ETs fit into the evolving story of
intelligence? Stephen invites us to

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Speaker 2: rethink what's possible and examine
what it means to be human in an age of

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Speaker 2: expanding awareness coupled with
technology. Welcome, Stephen

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Speaker 2: Shrembeck.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Sev.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Good to see you.

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Speaker 2: Good to see you, too.

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Speaker 3: So for the audience's benefit, we-
this is not our first time meeting, so [laughs]

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We've known each other for quite a
bit.

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Speaker 2: Couple years?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so now.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you've been with me-

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm just trying to turn my
phone off 'cause I don't wanna get

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Speaker 2: interrupted. Okay.

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Speaker 2: All right. Let's get into-

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Speaker 3: That was great intro.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me?

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Speaker 3: Where do you wanna start? [laughs]

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Speaker 2: Well, I wanna start just a little bit
just about you. Uh, where were you born, where

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Speaker 2: were you raised, and what were you
into as a young person?

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Speaker 3: Georgia, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: [laughs]

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Speaker 3: And I was into everything. Um-

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Speaker 2: [laughs]

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Speaker 3: ... um, I'm, I have sort of an
insatiable curiosity. I, um...

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Speaker 3: Sticking to things, you know,
historically has been a lot, much a bigger
challenge.

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Speaker 3: Not being into things has actually
been harder for me than anything else. But I

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Speaker 3: mean, growing up, anything that let
me move my mind or my body. So sports, you know,

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Speaker 3: soccer. Later on I found, uh, long
distance running and track. Uh, I was always

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Speaker 3: into playing around on the computer
and like every young boy, especially growing up

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Speaker 3: '90s, 2000s, uh, video games starting
with Nintendo Entertainment System. That

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Speaker 3: was awesome. And then of course I
wanted to start making things. I started trying
to

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Speaker 3: hack stuff together on the early
internet. Um, putting together like multiplayer

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Speaker 3: servers and customizing games and
that, that is really what led me into software

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Speaker 3: development eventually, is just I had
been, I wanted to make stuff. I wanted to do

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Speaker 3: stuff. That's where it always came
from. If something sparked my interest and I

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Speaker 3: gotta figure this out 'cause I wanna
do something with it.

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Speaker 2: Well, what made you wanna push it to
the limits to include consciousness in the

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Speaker 2: mind? Why did you wanna take it that
far?

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Speaker 3: I wasn't doing that at nine. Um, but-

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Speaker 2: [laughs]

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Speaker 3: ... I'd say in late, in my late 20s,
uh, maybe right around 30 or so,

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Speaker 3: so I'm 36, I started meditating. Um,
I started meditating much more seriously two or

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Speaker 3: three years ago. Um, my practice is
roughly an hour each morning. Um, it's

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Speaker 3: taken a while to get to that point. I
think

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Speaker 3: there's been a couple factors.
Meditation definitely was one. Um, I would... My
mind

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Speaker 3: was just blown away by exploring
inner space. I didn't even know that you could
just

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Speaker 3: sit there. You... [laughs] I found
out reading, um, Untethered Soul, uh, that,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, you're telling me you
can literally just sit here for two hours and

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Speaker 3: you can have an incredible experience
you've never had before? All it takes is

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Speaker 3: sitting down [laughs] and closing
your eyes and, you know, some basic technique. I

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Speaker 3: had no idea. And that, you know,
again, tickled the curiosity and I couldn't help

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Speaker 3: but follow it. So that leads me to
realizing there are other states of
consciousness

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Speaker 3: that are hard to explain and don't
really fit in with a materialistic, um,

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Speaker 3: we'll say standard model paradigm. It
doesn't make a lot of sense. Uh, there are big

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Speaker 3: questions that don't get answered.
You can call this the hard problem of

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Speaker 3: consciousness, which I became
familiar with, which is how does this fit? It
doesn't

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Speaker 3: make sense. How does this fit with
our 3D world? It doesn't make s- it shouldn't

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Speaker 3: arise from the parts that we have.
The sum is more than the parts. It doesn't make

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Speaker 3: sense mechanistically. Looking at it
just from like a sort of scientific model

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Speaker 3: standpoint, it didn't make any sense.
Uh, and we couldn't answer it. So that's

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Speaker 3: fascinating. And then of course, like
you've mentioned, like so many other people,

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Speaker 3: uh, got my world sort of rocked by
UFO sighting experiences. And then that goes

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Speaker 3: from, "Oh, this is a cool experience.
I'm trying stuff out, but who really knows?"

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Speaker 3: To, "Oh, crap. Okay, I guess this is
real. [laughs] What else is real? What,

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Speaker 3: what else have I been sleeping on or
just missing?" And, uh, you know, the rest is

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Speaker 3: sort of history. I think that's a-
Familiar path to a lot of your listeners, I
would

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Speaker 3: guess

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Speaker 2: Yes. And but the thought of combining
the technology with

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Speaker 2: the consciousness. So let's, let's
talk about consciousness. What is it? I don't

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Speaker 2: even know if we can define it. Uh,
some people think it is radiated from the human.

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Speaker 2: Some people think it's a field that
you can tap into. What do you think it is?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, a lot of people have a
lot of definitions. Uh, I'll... I can tell you
my

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Speaker 3: perspective. My perspective, um, some
of it's semantics, for sure. I don't

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Speaker 3: mean like sapience or sentience, so
the ability to think or feel or to have thoughts

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Speaker 3: or have self-awareness. That's not
what I'm talking about. Uh, those are separate

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Speaker 3: from consciousness. Consciousness is,
to me, the ability to be like something

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Speaker 3: else. To have an experience at all.
Any kind of experience is consciousness. So

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Speaker 3: there are degrees and there are
qualities to consciousness, but that is what it,
it

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Speaker 3: is in terms of definition. [laughs]
Now, where it comes from and how it works, I

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Speaker 3: have thought a lot about this. I've
done a lot more than think about it. I've... So

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Speaker 3: I've been practicing remote viewing
pretty seriously now for eight months. This is

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Speaker 3: one of the blind targets I give
myself sometimes, is asking these big questions
or

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Speaker 3: doing some of your, like, channeling
techniques to try to get answers on this, so,

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Speaker 3: and as well as doing my own thinking.
I do a lot of my own thinking, uh, on the

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Speaker 3: information given, and I think the
only real answer is it has to be fundamental.

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Speaker 3: That's not anything new. Uh, you
know, I think dualistic ideologies or idealism

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Speaker 3: sort of say the same thing, that it
is fundamental. I'm not saying it's the only

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Speaker 3: thing that's fundamental. I don't
know that. But it kind of has to preexist in
some

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Speaker 3: way, or else it's something weird
that we don't understand. If there is something

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Speaker 3: that could preexist consciousness, I
don't know. But I would echo what everyone else

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Speaker 3: sort of says from a dif- bunch of
different angles. It seems to be all

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Speaker 3: consciousness. I think it's all just
one thing. It's all just sort of made up.

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Speaker 3: But also, if everything's made up,
you know, nothing is made up. [laughs] It's...

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Speaker 3: How do you... It's, it's difficult.
It stops making sense. I think it's just what

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Speaker 3: everything is made of. Uh, that's
the, the short answer.

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Speaker 2: So everything. So there's one
consciousness that includes the trees and the
cats and

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Speaker 2: the humans and the fish. Like that?

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Speaker 3: I think it's way more complicated
than that. But yes, and, and it's taken as a

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Speaker 3: whole. There... It's all the same
stuff, and I think it does sort of subdivide and

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Speaker 3: have different perspectives. You may
consider it intentional blinders, just

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Speaker 3: intentionally looking from a more
narrow, limited viewpoint. Because

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Speaker 3: as weird as it sounds, I think there
are things you can learn and understand that

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Speaker 3: makes sense, you know, from an ant's
perspective that doesn't make sense from any

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Speaker 3: other perspective. And even if you're
all-knowing, I think that sometimes knowing

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Speaker 3: more actually teaches you less, and
that you learn more by limiting yourself. Art is

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Speaker 3: like this. You can do significantly
more with constraints on a canvas. If you have a

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Speaker 3: blank canvas and say, "Make art,"
it's pretty hard. If somebody tells... gives you

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Speaker 3: watercolors and they, they show you
some landscapes and say, "Uh, make some

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Speaker 3: landscapes, but put a twist on it,"
that's a lot easier. I think that this is a

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Speaker 3: similar sort of thing, and that's why
it is the way it is. Plus, it's more fun this

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Speaker 3: way. Who just wants to sit there,
like floating around as the only thing that

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Speaker 3: exists? So I think there are levels
of consciousness all the way up and down. Um, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how far it goes or how
it... what the rules are, but it does seem to be

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Speaker 3: an emergent phenomena that you can be
conscious at, at a specific level,

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Speaker 3: and you can be a part of a
consciousness at another level without-

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Speaker 2: Yeah

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Speaker 3: ... These are just guesses. I hold
all these models very loosely. I'm just an

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Speaker 3: explorer.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: I didn't answer the technology part,
but those are my sort of,

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Speaker 3: uh, beliefs so far, you know, based
on my, my own exploration and research.

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Speaker 2: Do you think self-awareness has
anything to do with consciousness? Like if your
s-

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Speaker 2: "I think, therefore I am"? Can you...
Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think it's a quality of conscious
experience, but it doesn't have to be that way.

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Speaker 3: If you go without sleeping for three
days, um, you're a heck of a lot less

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Speaker 3: self-aware. You can be alive and not
be self-aware. Bugs are like this. Like, I

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Speaker 3: think that to some degree, even bugs
are experiencing something, but they're not

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Speaker 3: aware that they're there, that
there's a self or anything. There's nothing like
that

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Speaker 3: happening.

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Speaker 2: Well, how do you know-

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Speaker 3: And humans can experience this-

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Speaker 2: ... a bug doesn't know that it's a-
aware of itself?

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Speaker 3: We don't know. We don't know that.
But I think that every human has had the

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Speaker 3: experience of not being self-aware in
their own life, which is of course where a lot

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Speaker 3: of my technology, uh, um, attention
is focused. We've all know what

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Speaker 3: it's like to be, have the lights on
but nobody is home, right? That is essentially

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Speaker 3: lacking self-awareness. So we kinda
know what it feels like to be, like, locked on

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Speaker 3: rails but not even aware that you're
alive and what you're doing. You might have to

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Speaker 3: be pretty drugged out or super tired
or [laughs] under an immense amount of stress

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Speaker 3: or something, but we've all felt
that. So we know those states are possible to
not

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Speaker 3: be self-aware and still be conscious.
You're still there. You're just not aware that

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Speaker 3: you're there.

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Speaker 2: You're just not aware that you're
living and that you could die? I was having-

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's possible

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Speaker 2: ... a conversation with someone who
thought that, uh, cats are not self-aware. And-

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Speaker 3: Hmm

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Speaker 2: ... I, I think they are. I think they
know that they can die. They see death. They

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Speaker 2: kill. And so because of that, because
they know that they're living and because they

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Speaker 2: know that they can die and death is
an option, that they are self-aware

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Speaker 3: I think all I'm trying to say is that
self-awareness is a quality of consciousness.

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Speaker 3: It's like an option, a checkbox. You
may or may not have it, and you may have it

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Speaker 3: conditionally. You may have it to
some degree, but not always. Are there... So I

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Speaker 3: think that what we have, and all the
qualities of consciousness, the ability to

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Speaker 3: think, the ability to be self-aware,
the ability to plan in the future and

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Speaker 3: reminisce, all of these things are,
like, qualities of consciousness that clearly

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Speaker 3: can exist because we have them. But
we also experience what it, or people who have

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Speaker 3: brain damage or various other
problems experience what it's like to not have
those

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Speaker 3: things or to have them work
differently. So I think there's a wide array of

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Speaker 3: consciousness, but at the end of the
day, everything is conscious in some way, even

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Speaker 3: if they don't aw- they're not aware
that they are. They're just-

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Speaker 2: Like a rock?

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Speaker 3: It's like watching a movie but not
even knowing you're watching a movie or that you

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Speaker 3: exist at all. Yeah, maybe even a
rock, but rocks don't really have sensory input,
so

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Speaker 3: their conscious experience would be
way different [laughs] than ours. And there's

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Speaker 3: probably not a lot going on except
maybe at, like, an aggregate level. So maybe

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Speaker 3: there is a consciousness of, like, a
mountain or a continent or a planet, and that

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Speaker 3: may be the only level that is
actually interesting. Otherwise, it's kind of
like

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Speaker 3: a... There's, on the EKG, there's
[laughs] not a lot going on there most of the

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Speaker 3: time, I would guess. But what do I
know?

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Speaker 2: Well, have you ever talked to a tree
or a rock?

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Speaker 3: I have done one meditation twice
where the focus was a tree in my

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Speaker 3: backyard. I've used this as a focus a
number of times. So you stare at a tree for

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Speaker 3: about an hour, doing nothing else
except for staring at the tree. Eventually, you

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Speaker 3: sort of lose yourself. You, your own
ego drops, and you feel a heck of a lot like a

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Speaker 3: tree. Um, this is a well-known, like,
meditative technique. You basically focus on

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Speaker 3: anything, and you, your experience
changes dramatically. What is actually
happening,

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Speaker 3: I can't say. If you listen to the
yogis, they're basically saying that you're more

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Speaker 3: or less tuning out your own conscious
experience, and now you are using a connection

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Speaker 3: to something else to experience what
that thing is experiencing.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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00:14:16,532 --> 00:14:20,792
Speaker 3: This is how telepathy is purported to
work. You're really just, like, stepping next

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Speaker 3: door, not so much taking something
out of their mind or transmitting it. You're

205
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Speaker 3: basically just stepping over there
for a second but keeping enough of a thread back

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Speaker 3: to yourself that you can sort of get
some information out of it. You feel what it's

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Speaker 3: like. I didn't like being a tree.

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Speaker 2: But that implies-

209
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Speaker 3: It's not- [laughs]

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Speaker 2: That implies a separateness.

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Speaker 3: Maybe. I'm not great at it. There is
a level of skill to this that

212
00:14:46,952 --> 00:14:50,512
Speaker 3: [laughs] ... And I have a lot of open
questions. There's definitely connection, but

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that there's not
distance. Um, there is distance, and that's a

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00:14:55,312 --> 00:14:58,352
Speaker 3: good thing. Otherwise, we would all
be feeling everything all the time, and that

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Speaker 3: would not be cool. So there is a
separation, but that doesn't mean there's not
some

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Speaker 3: degree of connection. I think that
there is separation by degrees, and there's a

217
00:15:08,032 --> 00:15:12,592
Speaker 3: sort of friction or barrier. Doesn't
mean that it's impassable, just not everything

218
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Speaker 3: is equally easy. So you can feel what
it's like to be a tree. Um, I didn't like

219
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Speaker 3: it. I haven't done it again. I felt
very trapped. It felt like having your feet

220
00:15:24,612 --> 00:15:28,992
Speaker 3: or legs buried into the ground up to
your hips and just being terrified that, like,

221
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Speaker 3: bugs could eat your toes. You can't
really move.

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Speaker 2: [laughs]

223
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Speaker 3: It's just... But it was very slow,
and it was very weird.

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Speaker 3: Um,

225
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Speaker 3: I didn't like it at all.

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Speaker 2: So what-

227
00:15:41,492 --> 00:15:42,932
Speaker 3: Assuming that's what it's like to be
a tree.

228
00:15:43,492 --> 00:15:43,572
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting.

229
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Speaker 3: I didn't like it.

230
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Speaker 2: I had a conversation-

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Speaker 3: [laughs]

232
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Speaker 2: ... with a tree in the redwoods in
California, and it changed my life. The

233
00:15:50,092 --> 00:15:52,372
Speaker 2: information it gave me was so
beautiful and profound.

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Speaker 3: What was that conversation? 'Cause
this wasn't a conversation. This was more like,

235
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Speaker 3: "I'll be in your body for a little
bit," without, like, talking. This is different.

236
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Speaker 2: Oh, not gaining any of its awareness?

237
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Speaker 3: No, it wasn't a talking. It was, "I'm
gonna be you for a little bit," or what it's

238
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Speaker 3: like to be you for a little bit.

239
00:16:09,712 --> 00:16:09,972
Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So what was the conversation? I guess
you don't have to rehash the story if you

241
00:16:14,992 --> 00:16:15,452
Speaker 3: don't want to.

242
00:16:15,592 --> 00:16:20,252
Speaker 2: No, I can tell you. I can say it
pretty quickly. Uh, I was walking around. I
had...

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00:16:21,032 --> 00:16:26,611
Speaker 2: We were, uh, in the redwood forest
for a few days, and so it's really high vibe.

244
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Speaker 2: Have you been?

245
00:16:28,612 --> 00:16:32,892
Speaker 3: I have been in redwood forests in
Washington, but I haven't been to Northern

246
00:16:32,972 --> 00:16:33,552
Speaker 3: California.

247
00:16:34,012 --> 00:16:38,912
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, did you feel the high
vibe? Like, were your ears ringing, and were you

248
00:16:38,952 --> 00:16:39,632
Speaker 2: kind of buzzy?

249
00:16:40,972 --> 00:16:41,932
Speaker 3: I felt real good.

250
00:16:41,932 --> 00:16:42,352
Speaker 2: Yes. [laughs]

251
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Speaker 3: I was on vacation there, like, over a
week ago. [laughs] I felt real at peace.

252
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Speaker 2: So-

253
00:16:47,292 --> 00:16:48,772
Speaker 3: But not, not quite that way, no.

254
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Speaker 2: Oh, okay. So-

255
00:16:50,472 --> 00:16:51,432
Speaker 3: But I know what you're talking about

256
00:16:52,252 --> 00:16:58,032
Speaker 2: ... so I'm walking around, and I'm
looking at this tree, and I just hear. I hear

257
00:16:58,092 --> 00:17:02,332
Speaker 2: communication coming from this tree,
and it says to me, "Look up to my highest

258
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Speaker 2: branches." And so my head just keeps
going up and up and up, and I'm looking up, and

259
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Speaker 2: it sees... And it says, "The energy
that runs through me is the same energy that

260
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Speaker 2: runs through you, and I don't stop
this energy. I don't say, 'No, I'm only gonna go

261
00:17:18,232 --> 00:17:23,012
Speaker 2: halfway. I'm only gonna grow halfway
and stop.' I align with this energy, and I

262
00:17:23,132 --> 00:17:28,972
Speaker 2: allow it to maximize my, my
potential." Unlike humans, who

263
00:17:29,052 --> 00:17:32,572
Speaker 2: cut it off and say, "No, I'm not
gonna be the best that I can be or the most that
I

264
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Speaker 2: can be." So they accept this energy,
and then they're like, "I'm done." Like a blade

265
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Speaker 2: of grass saying, "I'm only gonna go,
grow a quarter inch. I'm not gonna go to two

266
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Speaker 2: inches like all my friends." And that
was profound information for

267
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Speaker 2: me. And, uh, I kind of use it as a,
um,

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Speaker 2: as, like, a pep talk at times that
maybe if I'm feeling a little low or feeling a

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Speaker 2: little down, um, like, "I'm a redwood
tree, too, and I can take that energy, and I

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Speaker 2: can grow as tall as I want."

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And also a rock talked to me
when I was in Hawaii. I picked up a rock out of

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Speaker 2: a creek, and I wanted to take it
home. And it's in my hand, and the rock says, "I

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00:18:16,168 --> 00:18:21,168
Speaker 2: don't want to leave." I'm like, "Oh
my gosh. You're right. Why would you wanna leave

274
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Speaker 2: Maui to come all the way back to
Capitol Hill, Washington, DC? You're absolutely

275
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Speaker 2: right." [laughs]

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Speaker 3: [laughs]

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Speaker 2: So I threw it back in the creek. Not
in the same spot, but it went back. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: Have you heard of, um, Veda Austin
and her work with water?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: Um, it's probably, uh, worth looking
at. Um, I mean, I could pull up their website.

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Speaker 3: But in, in a nutshell, she has, for
like the last 14 years or so, she's been

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Speaker 3: putting water in Petri dishes and,
you know, setting some sort of intention for 30

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Speaker 3: seconds or so and then freezing it.
And the pattern that comes out looks-

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00:18:58,068 --> 00:18:58,069
Speaker 2: Oh

287
00:18:58,068 --> 00:19:02,988
Speaker 3: ... dramatically like artwork and
messages and answers to questions and basically
a

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00:19:03,048 --> 00:19:07,148
Speaker 3: conversation. You know, not unlike
any of the, you know, channeling practice you,

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Speaker 3: you do, but this is physical
evidence. I love physical evidence. Most humans
do.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

291
00:19:12,148 --> 00:19:12,948
Speaker 3: It's very tangible.

292
00:19:13,588 --> 00:19:13,868
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

293
00:19:14,248 --> 00:19:18,768
Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's harder to doubt or
question. It's more straightforward, right? Uh,

294
00:19:19,268 --> 00:19:23,928
Speaker 3: direct evidence is awesome. So this,
her work is really cool. I've tried to

295
00:19:23,968 --> 00:19:27,768
Speaker 3: replicate some of it at home in the
past week or two. Um, I got-

296
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Speaker 2: That's interesting

297
00:19:28,108 --> 00:19:29,788
Speaker 3: ... more than nothing. Uh-

298
00:19:29,788 --> 00:19:29,928
Speaker 2: Oh [laughs]

299
00:19:29,928 --> 00:19:35,728
Speaker 3: ... it's pretty cool. So it works
like all of these, like, psi abilities seem

300
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Speaker 3: to, right? I'm just an explorer here.
Uh, whether it's, you know, tech or something

301
00:19:40,728 --> 00:19:46,688
Speaker 3: else, like, I'm just trying stuff
out. I got no ego in it. And it... The moment
you

302
00:19:46,728 --> 00:19:52,608
Speaker 3: are not confident or you are
duplicitous or you have ulterior

303
00:19:52,688 --> 00:19:58,428
Speaker 3: motives or conflicted intentions,
it's just ice. Like, there's nothing there.
The...

304
00:19:58,468 --> 00:20:04,388
Speaker 3: However, if you come at this from a
very, not... You can be skeptical, but you

305
00:20:04,428 --> 00:20:10,288
Speaker 3: have to be sort of open and positive
and curious with your skepticism. If you are

306
00:20:10,388 --> 00:20:16,248
Speaker 3: cynical, um, or combative, nothing
happens, right? So it's y-

307
00:20:16,727 --> 00:20:22,388
Speaker 3: those things are all still true. Um,
but yeah, uh, so I- I've run a couple

308
00:20:22,448 --> 00:20:27,488
Speaker 3: experiments now. It's definitely
interesting. So I just said, like, "Hello."

309
00:20:27,608 --> 00:20:31,208
Speaker 3: Basically, all I'm doing is saying
hello. Put a little tap water in there. She's
got

310
00:20:31,248 --> 00:20:34,108
Speaker 3: a basic protocol for how to do it,
and you can go look at the website if people

311
00:20:34,128 --> 00:20:39,808
Speaker 3: wanna look. It's Veda Austin. And
she's got a book, I think. If... So I froze it,

312
00:20:40,188 --> 00:20:45,348
Speaker 3: take it back out. Sure enough, I have
the picture. It's not, like, super impressive,

313
00:20:45,908 --> 00:20:49,748
Speaker 3: um, because some of it was drawn in
highlights, and I didn't have my regular camera.

314
00:20:50,788 --> 00:20:55,908
Speaker 3: But it's a very clear capital H,
capital E. There are two squiggly lines, and
then

315
00:20:55,928 --> 00:20:59,768
Speaker 3: there's no O. But, you know, I wasn't
doing the freezing technique properly, so, you

316
00:20:59,808 --> 00:21:03,868
Speaker 3: know, I'm sure it's hard to draw with
ice. What do I know? Uh, I'm like, holy crap.

317
00:21:03,868 --> 00:21:05,688
Speaker 3: [laughs] What are the chances-

318
00:21:05,728 --> 00:21:05,788
Speaker 2: You-

319
00:21:05,808 --> 00:21:09,988
Speaker 3: ... of that happening by odds against
chance? Like, that doesn't seem possible.

320
00:21:10,028 --> 00:21:13,348
Speaker 3: Like, there is pareidolia, of course.
You see patterns in everything.

321
00:21:14,488 --> 00:21:14,489
Speaker 2: Yeah.

322
00:21:14,528 --> 00:21:17,188
Speaker 3: But what are the odds of that? That's
pretty weird, right?

323
00:21:18,568 --> 00:21:24,428
Speaker 2: Oh, so you were trying to recreate
letters within the, the ice?

324
00:21:25,468 --> 00:21:29,368
Speaker 3: I was saying hello. What I pulled out
of the freezer was-

325
00:21:29,528 --> 00:21:30,068
Speaker 2: Were letters

326
00:21:30,108 --> 00:21:34,508
Speaker 3: ... capital E, capital E, two
squiggly lines, and the... I didn't really see
an O,

327
00:21:34,688 --> 00:21:39,448
Speaker 3: but, you know, maybe it's hard to
write. [laughs] And so it looked to me like a

328
00:21:39,488 --> 00:21:41,708
Speaker 3: reply. Um, but again-

329
00:21:42,248 --> 00:21:43,188
Speaker 2: That's different

330
00:21:43,228 --> 00:21:43,528
Speaker 3: ... fascinating.

331
00:21:43,608 --> 00:21:45,908
Speaker 2: I've never heard of actual letters
coming out. So-

332
00:21:46,028 --> 00:21:46,228
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah

333
00:21:46,248 --> 00:21:51,948
Speaker 2: ... this is based on the Japanese
scientist... Is his name Emoto? The one that

334
00:21:52,028 --> 00:21:52,508
Speaker 2: originally-

335
00:21:52,568 --> 00:21:52,708
Speaker 3: It, it might be

336
00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:58,048
Speaker 2: ... did this, this, uh, type of, uh,
the consciousness of water melding with our

337
00:21:58,108 --> 00:21:58,888
Speaker 2: consciousness.

338
00:21:58,928 --> 00:22:00,368
Speaker 3: Yeah, it might be.

339
00:22:00,388 --> 00:22:04,888
Speaker 2: And it really makes me think. If your
consciousness can affect the quality of water,

340
00:22:05,528 --> 00:22:10,628
Speaker 2: then you're affecting the quality of
the water inside your body, which is running

341
00:22:10,668 --> 00:22:16,468
Speaker 2: through your organs. And so it's true
that how you think does affect your health

342
00:22:16,528 --> 00:22:22,487
Speaker 2: because you're, you're creating those
water molecules. Are they going to be, uh,

343
00:22:22,568 --> 00:22:26,348
Speaker 2: like, beautiful mandalas, or are they
gonna be all jagged and rigid? Like, when you

344
00:22:26,388 --> 00:22:31,468
Speaker 2: have a neg- negative thought, uh,
I've seen where the water does not look

345
00:22:31,548 --> 00:22:35,008
Speaker 2: symmetrical at all. But when you have
a beautiful, loving thought, it looks very

346
00:22:35,068 --> 00:22:36,468
Speaker 2: symmetrical, and it's very pretty.

347
00:22:37,388 --> 00:22:42,008
Speaker 3: That is consistent with about 20
tests I've done so far. So-

348
00:22:42,048 --> 00:22:43,328
Speaker 2: You've done 20 tests?

349
00:22:43,848 --> 00:22:47,968
Speaker 3: It's not that hard. It's, you just
freeze some water. Takes about 30 seconds to set

350
00:22:48,048 --> 00:22:52,068
Speaker 3: up. You wait 10, 15 minutes to, for
it to freeze. Take it back out again. Like-

351
00:22:52,448 --> 00:22:52,548
Speaker 2: And so you can see it-

352
00:22:52,548 --> 00:22:55,068
Speaker 3: I'm a scientist at heart. [laughs]
Gotta know.

353
00:22:56,448 --> 00:22:57,768
Speaker 2: You can see it with the naked eye?

354
00:22:58,508 --> 00:23:02,808
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. You can... It... Uh,
I don't know if I can post a... Uh, people can

355
00:23:02,828 --> 00:23:05,468
Speaker 3: just go to her website, look at the
videos. But I'd be happy-

356
00:23:05,468 --> 00:23:05,548
Speaker 2: Okay

357
00:23:05,568 --> 00:23:06,528
Speaker 3: ... to share my pictures too.

358
00:23:07,908 --> 00:23:08,068
Speaker 2: Yeah.

359
00:23:09,508 --> 00:23:10,488
Speaker 3: Okay. Let me see if I can-

360
00:23:10,508 --> 00:23:11,368
Speaker 2: I would like to see that.

361
00:23:12,368 --> 00:23:12,588
Speaker 3: Let me see.

362
00:23:12,668 --> 00:23:15,968
Speaker 2: Well, are you gonna share it right
here? I don't know if I've ever shared on

363
00:23:16,048 --> 00:23:16,868
Speaker 2: StreamYard before.

364
00:23:16,988 --> 00:23:19,488
Speaker 3: I have no idea [laughs] if I can
upload a picture or something.

365
00:23:19,788 --> 00:23:19,928
Speaker 2: I, I-

366
00:23:19,948 --> 00:23:20,928
Speaker 3: Eh, we'll figure it out later.

367
00:23:20,928 --> 00:23:22,328
Speaker 2: [laughs]

368
00:23:22,368 --> 00:23:24,468
Speaker 3: That's not, that's not the exciting
part. [laughs]

369
00:23:24,468 --> 00:23:25,648
Speaker 2: [laughs] Um-

370
00:23:25,668 --> 00:23:27,008
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's not hard to do

371
00:23:27,108 --> 00:23:31,668
Speaker 2: ... I would love to look at that.
What, were you emitting emotions or words,

372
00:23:31,788 --> 00:23:32,988
Speaker 2: feelings? What were you doing?

373
00:23:34,088 --> 00:23:39,248
Speaker 3: Uh, so for each test? Well, it
depends. I've done different things. Uh, I did
one

374
00:23:39,308 --> 00:23:45,168
Speaker 3: where I took some water out of my
parents' dog bowl, and I froze that

375
00:23:45,288 --> 00:23:45,528
Speaker 3: in-

376
00:23:46,308 --> 00:23:46,309
Speaker 2: Oh

377
00:23:46,308 --> 00:23:50,308
Speaker 3: ... a glass container, flat-bottom
glass container, but the pest control guy came

378
00:23:50,388 --> 00:23:53,428
Speaker 3: over 'cause I was at their house
letting their dogs out, just helping out while
they

379
00:23:53,448 --> 00:23:57,208
Speaker 3: were away. And they're going crazy.
This guy's in their backyard. They don't like

380
00:23:57,248 --> 00:24:00,848
Speaker 3: it. They're just losing their minds
for 10 minutes, and I'm going crazy too. This is

381
00:24:00,908 --> 00:24:05,868
Speaker 3: torture for me. And so I take the
thing out. It's completely smooth. You know,
it's

382
00:24:06,568 --> 00:24:10,008
Speaker 3: about a container this big. Except
for in the middle, about si- a little larger
than

383
00:24:10,048 --> 00:24:15,864
Speaker 3: a quarter, is this- ... qua- like a
stick figure drawing of a quadruped with two

384
00:24:15,924 --> 00:24:19,944
Speaker 3: cones coming out the side of his
head. And the entire rendering of just the thing
in

385
00:24:19,984 --> 00:24:24,304
Speaker 3: the middle is, like, all choppy, like
frozen waves. Everything else is smooth. And

386
00:24:24,304 --> 00:24:27,844
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I mean, that's, looks
pretty clearly like a dog making a bunch of

387
00:24:27,884 --> 00:24:32,484
Speaker 3: noise. And the texture is consistent
with all the pictures she shows for basically

388
00:24:32,564 --> 00:24:38,244
Speaker 3: anger or frustration. What you just
described. Uh, like, but you get dramatically

389
00:24:38,304 --> 00:24:41,304
Speaker 3: different patterns every single time.
I think that's, honestly, that's the coolest

390
00:24:41,344 --> 00:24:46,284
Speaker 3: part. Just ice is apparently really
cool. You get so much cool stuff every single

391
00:24:46,324 --> 00:24:50,464
Speaker 3: time you freeze it. It's shocking how
much the same water, no changes, just thawing

392
00:24:50,484 --> 00:24:53,544
Speaker 3: and refreezing it, you can get
dramatically different results.

393
00:24:54,084 --> 00:24:55,704
Speaker 2: The same water, the same ice cube.

394
00:24:56,424 --> 00:25:01,224
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's not just noise. Like,
there's a lot of variation. You might get a huge

395
00:25:01,324 --> 00:25:04,864
Speaker 3: snowflake-looking thing covering it.
Generally, that seems to be correlated with

396
00:25:05,504 --> 00:25:10,744
Speaker 3: sort of positive serenity. Like, but
also the water itself is generally cleaner. Um,

397
00:25:11,804 --> 00:25:17,784
Speaker 3: and tap water I have experienced is
way more messy and noisy. Um,

398
00:25:18,564 --> 00:25:21,704
Speaker 3: that is consistent with, with what
she talked about. Some of this overlaps with

399
00:25:21,784 --> 00:25:25,344
Speaker 3: actual, like, probably crystal
science and how water freezes. Like-

400
00:25:25,804 --> 00:25:25,884
Speaker 2: Okay

401
00:25:25,884 --> 00:25:29,344
Speaker 3: ... where does one thing start and
one thing stop? But it's, it's cool. Just a

402
00:25:29,384 --> 00:25:32,384
Speaker 3: recent exploration if people wanna
try that out. Like-

403
00:25:33,084 --> 00:25:33,924
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, now you-

404
00:25:33,924 --> 00:25:34,264
Speaker 3: ... I'm still working through

405
00:25:34,264 --> 00:25:38,544
Speaker 2: ... have me thinking, now you have me
thinking about the quality of my cat's water.

406
00:25:38,604 --> 00:25:43,664
Speaker 2: I give him bottled water. And of
course, you know, there's lots of love infused
in

407
00:25:43,704 --> 00:25:48,324
Speaker 2: my cat's water from me. But those,
your d- your parents' dogs,

408
00:25:49,684 --> 00:25:53,504
Speaker 2: if they were to drink that water...
Well, first of all, is there a difference

409
00:25:53,544 --> 00:25:58,984
Speaker 2: between iced water and just liquid
water? Does it ha- do you think the liquid

410
00:25:59,104 --> 00:26:04,904
Speaker 2: water, uh, incorporates, uh, those
energies or that consciousness the same

411
00:26:04,984 --> 00:26:07,724
Speaker 2: as ice does? Is there a difference?

412
00:26:11,064 --> 00:26:15,144
Speaker 3: Okay. I don't know, asterisk, but I
can give you my guesses.

413
00:26:15,804 --> 00:26:16,064
Speaker 2: Okay.

414
00:26:16,224 --> 00:26:18,664
Speaker 3: So I say a lot of I don't know. And
honestly, I think any-

415
00:26:19,164 --> 00:26:19,704
Speaker 2: I like that

416
00:26:19,744 --> 00:26:25,564
Speaker 3: ... honest explorer should. Um, but I
have degrees of certainty on my best

417
00:26:25,624 --> 00:26:30,024
Speaker 3: guesses of things. So I've begun to
form an opinion. Um,

418
00:26:31,584 --> 00:26:37,224
Speaker 3: the opinion is I don't know what, if
anything, we're talking to through water.

419
00:26:37,684 --> 00:26:41,064
Speaker 3: Right? Let, let me just say that. I
don't immediately buy that we are talking to

420
00:26:41,104 --> 00:26:44,524
Speaker 3: water. I think it's totally
plausible. You're literally just talking to
yourself,

421
00:26:44,804 --> 00:26:48,484
Speaker 3: right? Even if you still buy some
esoteric explanation, I think you, you could

422
00:26:48,524 --> 00:26:52,344
Speaker 3: literally just be reflecting your own
inner thoughts and feelings or

423
00:26:52,404 --> 00:26:53,224
Speaker 3: subconsciousness.

424
00:26:53,244 --> 00:26:53,245
Speaker 2: Yeah.

425
00:26:53,264 --> 00:26:57,044
Speaker 3: Like, who knows? Or your impression
of what water should be doing. Like, who knows?

426
00:26:57,884 --> 00:27:03,084
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that you can't also
be talking to someone else. But even if 90% of

427
00:27:03,124 --> 00:27:07,624
Speaker 3: it was that, it wouldn't surprise me.
Uh, so I don't know who we're talking to. Uh,

428
00:27:07,864 --> 00:27:12,464
Speaker 3: I suspect that if this is possible,
why would it mean that, I mean, other things

429
00:27:12,484 --> 00:27:16,104
Speaker 3: could probably talk through water
too, right? Not, I don't see why not. Uh,

430
00:27:16,464 --> 00:27:19,704
Speaker 3: anything's on the table. So I, I'm
not quick to jump to conclusions saying, oh, I'm

431
00:27:19,764 --> 00:27:23,604
Speaker 3: definitely talking to water, whatever
that means, or the spirit of water or

432
00:27:23,624 --> 00:27:29,184
Speaker 3: whatever. Maybe. I don't know. So I
don't know wh- who or what we're talking to. My

433
00:27:29,244 --> 00:27:35,124
Speaker 3: impression is that what we ha- well,
the reason it works and the reason

434
00:27:35,164 --> 00:27:41,004
Speaker 3: it's doing anything is because it is
amenable to this kind of intention.

435
00:27:41,804 --> 00:27:46,204
Speaker 3: Assuming, you know, conscious
intention works through quantum mechanisms,
which it

436
00:27:46,264 --> 00:27:50,124
Speaker 3: seems to, right? It's probabilistic,
right? If you can tip the odds enough times,

437
00:27:51,064 --> 00:27:55,624
Speaker 3: uh, somehow, then you can change the
physical world, right? And crystals are great

438
00:27:55,664 --> 00:27:58,624
Speaker 3: because you really don't have to tip
the odds that many, 'cause the way they work, I

439
00:27:58,644 --> 00:28:01,744
Speaker 3: won't go into the explanation, but
they basically follow the same pattern over and

440
00:28:01,824 --> 00:28:07,304
Speaker 3: over again until something
interferes. Uh, it could be some small
imperfection. It

441
00:28:07,344 --> 00:28:12,924
Speaker 3: could be the quantum effect of two
electron orbitals, uh, overlapping and repelling

442
00:28:12,964 --> 00:28:16,724
Speaker 3: or not, right? So that would be the
quantum effect here is do these two atoms repel

443
00:28:16,764 --> 00:28:21,264
Speaker 3: or not? And that's a probabilistic
thing. But if you're tipping the odds somehow

444
00:28:21,304 --> 00:28:26,564
Speaker 3: with some conscious field experience
interaction, then you really don't need to

445
00:28:27,224 --> 00:28:31,044
Speaker 3: hit it too many times to draw the
line in a different direction, right? So that is

446
00:28:31,143 --> 00:28:35,864
Speaker 3: very amenable to, like, a drawing
medium with a quantum effect, right? It's a

447
00:28:35,904 --> 00:28:37,604
Speaker 3: quantum pencil. And-

448
00:28:37,784 --> 00:28:37,785
Speaker 2: Ooh

449
00:28:37,784 --> 00:28:42,004
Speaker 3: ... the reason this is useful is
water is super fluid. There's a lot of motion
and

450
00:28:42,044 --> 00:28:47,764
Speaker 3: potential. Um, there's a lot of m-
ready-made parts there, and ice

451
00:28:47,824 --> 00:28:52,544
Speaker 3: quickly solidifies. So it's a good
drawing medium, basically. That is why I think
it

452
00:28:52,604 --> 00:28:58,484
Speaker 3: works. I make no claims as to who or
what is doing the drawing if it's happening.

453
00:28:58,584 --> 00:29:03,224
Speaker 3: But based on her evidence anyways,
like 40,000 pictures, and they're incredible. In

454
00:29:03,264 --> 00:29:08,864
Speaker 3: my own basic trials, there's
something there. And I, but I think that that is
why it

455
00:29:08,904 --> 00:29:13,244
Speaker 3: works. I have no idea why it's
happening [laughs] or who's talking or what the
rules

456
00:29:13,324 --> 00:29:18,644
Speaker 3: are. I just know that that is what
seems, based on my brief research

457
00:29:19,684 --> 00:29:23,984
Speaker 3: and thinking [laughs] that is, uh,
what I think is happening. But that's just a

458
00:29:24,024 --> 00:29:24,284
Speaker 3: guess.

459
00:29:25,784 --> 00:29:26,704
Speaker 2: That's a good guess.

460
00:29:31,064 --> 00:29:35,424
Speaker 2: All right. Let's get into the field
of AI. Uh, because every time I have a

461
00:29:35,484 --> 00:29:40,904
Speaker 2: conversation about AI, it eventually
leads to doom and gloom every single

462
00:29:41,384 --> 00:29:44,284
Speaker 2: time. There doesn't seem to be a
positive outcome.

463
00:29:47,304 --> 00:29:48,404
Speaker 3: You're talking to the wrong people.

464
00:29:48,444 --> 00:29:52,624
Speaker 2: [laughs] Really? You don't-

465
00:29:52,724 --> 00:29:52,944
Speaker 3: I mean-

466
00:29:52,964 --> 00:29:56,984
Speaker 2: ... think that eventually we'll just
be c- uh, controlled? Like how?

467
00:30:00,824 --> 00:30:06,084
Speaker 3: I thought about this a lot. Why do
aliens not seem to be bothered by AI? You know-

468
00:30:06,204 --> 00:30:06,284
Speaker 2: Well-

469
00:30:06,284 --> 00:30:11,204
Speaker 3: ... outside of a few odd stories,
like I... You look at any, like, abduction

470
00:30:11,264 --> 00:30:15,124
Speaker 3: accounts, ain't none of them are
like, "You better, really better watch out about

471
00:30:15,184 --> 00:30:19,364
Speaker 3: this, this Terminator scenario.
Better watch out about, you know, AI eating

472
00:30:19,424 --> 00:30:23,940
Speaker 3: everything in some way," right?
Taking over everything There are concerns about

473
00:30:23,980 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: technology in general, but nobody
seems to point the finger at this one. I don't

474
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,020
Speaker 3: know why yet, uh, but if you draw
from that body of evidence, you don't see it
very

475
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: often. Feel free to correct me, if
maybe this is a, a blind spot for me. I

476
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 3: wondered why that might be the case.
But I- before I move on, is, is that

477
00:30:43,140 --> 00:30:48,140
Speaker 3: what you think as well? Does that
mirror your understanding? No sort of

478
00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:52,860
Speaker 3: extraterrestrial accounts that I...
Anyone that I've seen reported really calls out

479
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: AI as the specific threat, not on the
level of, like, climate change or, like,

480
00:30:57,020 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: nuclear warfare or anything.

481
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:04,060
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't had any conversations
about AI with any ETs, and no one that has

482
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: contacted me ta- has had any
conversations about AI with ETs. Uh, so I don't
know

483
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,820
Speaker 2: what the various ETs think about AI.
I have no idea. And are they AI themselves?

484
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: Maybe they're not talking about it
'cause they are AI.

485
00:31:20,020 --> 00:31:24,620
Speaker 3: So we'll take that as a, a prior,
right? So we'll just assume that that is the
case,

486
00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:30,580
Speaker 3: that, that they're not talking about
it. Why might that be? Um, either it's a blind

487
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:36,460
Speaker 3: spot for them or, you know, the
silence is very loud in the sense that

488
00:31:37,660 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 3: it's either a really big problem or a
laughably small non-issue. It's really

489
00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: it. And the only reason it would be a
big problem is that by not addressing it or

490
00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:52,060
Speaker 3: something that, you know, it's sort
of top secret. I don't think so. I think that

491
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: this is a laughable problem. If
consciousness is fundamental, this is just

492
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: another thing that either, A, it can
be conscious, it's just another living thing.

493
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:08,500
Speaker 3: It's fine. Uh, it more likely it will
be [laughs] pretty ... uh, most likely,

494
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:14,620
Speaker 3: um, if it is intellectually more
capable, so that's not a concern.

495
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: Um, so if it is conscious. If it's
not conscious, it's also laughable in the sense,

496
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,420
Speaker 3: in a long-term sense. Yes, it could
cause lots of problems, but if we take a sort of

497
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,460
Speaker 3: idealistic perspective, you know, a
soul or... Which is essentially, you know, the

498
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:35,180
Speaker 3: field of consciousness could never be
overtaken by matter. That doesn't make sense.

499
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 3: You just snap your fingers and it's
gone. Uh, if it's a unliving or, or unconscious

500
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,140
Speaker 3: machine, I mean, you basically have
root access over it, assuming consciousness is

501
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:51,700
Speaker 3: fundamental. Like, it's, it's
laughable. You... Maybe we can't do it, uh, but
some

502
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: sufficiently powerful deity-like
figure, like, I don't know, um, you,

503
00:32:57,740 --> 00:33:02,580
Speaker 3: you would never lose to it because
it's just matter. Uh, I think that is the real

504
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: answer. Doesn't mean it can't cause
lots of problems. Uh, you can certainly screw

505
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: things up with bad ideas in the
physical world. Um, but I think in the long term

506
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: it's just another substrate. If it
can be conscious, cool, it's just another living

507
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:22,420
Speaker 3: thing. If it can't be, then it
ultimately isn't going to become an issue.

508
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Now, that is of small consequence to
human beings who have to live here, possibly

509
00:33:29,060 --> 00:33:34,100
Speaker 3: with AIs that they built, [laughs]
uh, for, who knows, hundreds of years. That
might

510
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: be a sucky interim existence, and I
think that that is what mis- most people are

511
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:43,580
Speaker 3: talking about from a doom
perspective. All that to say I don't think it's
going to

512
00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:46,100
Speaker 3: take over the universe and all that,
so I'm not worried about that.

513
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,060
Speaker 2: Oh, you don't-

514
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: Not at all

515
00:33:47,140 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: ... you don't see the doom and gloom
in it?

516
00:33:49,620 --> 00:33:55,220
Speaker 3: Not the huge, big picture doom and
gloom. Now, could it screw things up for a

517
00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: century or two? If we're dumb, yeah,
I think that's totally possible.

518
00:34:01,580 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: I don't think it will. Um, when you
look at the AIs, the way the current

519
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 3: ones work, uh, the large language
models that are built on reinforcement learning

520
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,940
Speaker 3: through human feedback, it's clear
that this is not going to reach general AI. It

521
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,740
Speaker 3: needs a couple more pieces. Um, but
even if we just take this piece, it's trained

522
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,580
Speaker 3: on us. That's where all of its
information comes. It doesn't work like
AlphaZero

523
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: or AlphaGo, where it's training in
this simulation far removed from everything
else.

524
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: Everything it learns, everything it
knows, all of its interactions are with human

525
00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:44,100
Speaker 3: beings. It's pretty clear it's become
an amalgamation of our thoughts, beliefs,

526
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 3: and our words, our ideas. That is
what it is. And it's also got some built-in

527
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: training mechanisms basically to
please humans and give them whatever they want.
So

528
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,740
Speaker 3: I think a doom scenario looks a lot
more like Wall-E, where we're sitting around

529
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,180
Speaker 3: just being pleasured until, uh, our
brains turn off. It's just white noise. [laughs]

530
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: I think that is far more likely than
a Terminator sort of scenario, which doesn't

531
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: make sense-

532
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:09,241
Speaker 2: Oh, okay

533
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: ... based on how it works and how
it's put together. Now, could you build an AI
that

534
00:35:13,540 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: is totally divergent from humanity
and has no relation to us at all and isn't sort

535
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: of built out of our thoughts and
memories and stories? Yeah, you could. That
would

536
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: be dumb. [laughs] Don't do that. But
this thing is pretty clearly more

537
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 3: human than even our probably closest
relatives, besides the fact it doesn't have a

538
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 3: body. Um, that's obvious just
interacting with it. So I don't have the same
sort

539
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:45,540
Speaker 3: of fear scenarios. You would... It
makes sense to be worried about what other
people

540
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: will do with this. But the-

541
00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

542
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 3: ... AI itself sort of going off the
rails, I don't, I don't see it. I don't see any

543
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 3: reason why that would happen based on
how it works, how it's put together, and what

544
00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 3: the trajectories are. It just doesn't
make sense.

545
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,980
Speaker 2: So it's always dependent, it's always
dependent on us programming it is what you're

546
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 2: saying?

547
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 3: Oh, we're not programming it. We
haven't been programming these things since
2012,

548
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:16,420
Speaker 3: 2014, um, when deep learning took
off. Even AI researchers don't even

549
00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 3: know what they're making anymore.
They're... It's... The way it works, they claim

550
00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 3: to. This is like saying because you
know how cell metabolism works that you

551
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,464
Speaker 3: understand how humans work. Like- Eh,
[laughs] not quite. You have an understanding

552
00:36:31,524 --> 00:36:36,844
Speaker 3: at one level, but they don't
understand how it all comes together to create a
thing

553
00:36:36,884 --> 00:36:41,144
Speaker 3: you can talk to and how it's thinking
or whatever its analogy of thinking is,

554
00:36:41,784 --> 00:36:46,204
Speaker 3: because we don't have insight into
what the way that, uh, basically those weights

555
00:36:46,244 --> 00:36:49,024
Speaker 3: work or how information throws, flows
through the layers. It's too complicated.

556
00:36:49,044 --> 00:36:52,844
Speaker 3: There's too many connections. It's
too big. It's a big black box. They know how to

557
00:36:53,304 --> 00:36:57,324
Speaker 3: make it do the thing, they don't know
why it does the thing. They know the low level

558
00:36:57,364 --> 00:37:01,324
Speaker 3: pieces, they know how to assemble and
attach new parts, they know how to coax it

559
00:37:01,364 --> 00:37:05,144
Speaker 3: into directions, um, but it's a lot
more like

560
00:37:06,724 --> 00:37:08,424
Speaker 3: psychotherapy on a human. Like

561
00:37:10,084 --> 00:37:15,104
Speaker 3: I- we're not talking about
engineering specific neural connections, and
I'll rewire

562
00:37:15,144 --> 00:37:18,164
Speaker 3: this over here so that you feel a
little more self-confident. And, oh, we'll just

563
00:37:18,224 --> 00:37:21,264
Speaker 3: sort of get rid of that memory. We'll
cut that out. That's not how it works. You

564
00:37:21,404 --> 00:37:26,704
Speaker 3: sort of have to talk at them, and
based on how they're responding to you, figure
out

565
00:37:26,764 --> 00:37:30,044
Speaker 3: whether you're getting somewhere. And
that's kind of where we're at with AI at this

566
00:37:30,084 --> 00:37:33,884
Speaker 3: point, and I don't think that that's
going to go away. We're more or less just sort

567
00:37:33,944 --> 00:37:38,244
Speaker 3: of, uh, massaging it, influencing it
in specific directions, penalizing certain

568
00:37:38,304 --> 00:37:42,524
Speaker 3: kinds of behaviors, changing the
training data, and just hoping that what we get
out

569
00:37:42,564 --> 00:37:45,944
Speaker 3: the other end is what we wanted. So-

570
00:37:46,584 --> 00:37:46,585
Speaker 2: Hoping

571
00:37:46,584 --> 00:37:48,984
Speaker 3: ... I don't think that's gonna go
away. Yeah.

572
00:37:49,024 --> 00:37:53,024
Speaker 2: So one thing I don't hear people talk
about is the soul.

573
00:37:54,104 --> 00:37:54,105
Speaker 3: Uh-huh.

574
00:37:54,144 --> 00:38:00,104
Speaker 2: Isn't the soul part of this AI
consciousness? The soul, doesn't

575
00:38:00,144 --> 00:38:05,624
Speaker 2: the soul determine whether something
is alive or not? And can AI have a soul? If it

576
00:38:05,664 --> 00:38:10,144
Speaker 2: doesn't have a soul, then it's not
alive. Can it have a consciousness if it doesn't

577
00:38:10,184 --> 00:38:13,784
Speaker 2: have a soul? Does soul play any part
in this?

578
00:38:15,784 --> 00:38:21,064
Speaker 3: So words are funny. Um, I'll separate
the biological different definition of alive

579
00:38:21,124 --> 00:38:25,204
Speaker 3: away from this, and we just mean
consciousness. That's what I mean. Is it
conscious?

580
00:38:25,724 --> 00:38:30,924
Speaker 3: Um, because alive is a totally
separate and valid question. Um, but that has
more to

581
00:38:30,984 --> 00:38:35,184
Speaker 3: do with, you know, can it maintain
its own, like, homeostasis? Can it replicate?
Can

582
00:38:35,244 --> 00:38:40,544
Speaker 3: it survive and adapt? Like, those are
qualities of being alive. Um, but

583
00:38:41,324 --> 00:38:46,244
Speaker 3: is it conscious? I think that is the
most important question that nobody is really

584
00:38:46,304 --> 00:38:52,044
Speaker 3: looking into with AI. Like, a little
bit, uh, some sort of AI safety people and

585
00:38:53,244 --> 00:38:58,364
Speaker 3: some sort of shreds of the effective
altruist community, uh, Nick Bostrom

586
00:38:58,464 --> 00:39:02,624
Speaker 3: specifically, has clearly looked into
this is a huge, like, moral dilemma. We need

587
00:39:02,664 --> 00:39:07,684
Speaker 3: to know whether they're conscious,
because that affects how we treat these things
in

588
00:39:07,744 --> 00:39:11,764
Speaker 3: general. We can't just have it...
I've thought about this a lot. You can't just
have

589
00:39:11,804 --> 00:39:17,484
Speaker 3: it do 100,000 cycles on are these
tweets racist or not, because that's torture.

590
00:39:18,004 --> 00:39:21,724
Speaker 3: Like [laughs] you shouldn't do that
to somebody. Their brain can go a whole lot

591
00:39:21,804 --> 00:39:27,044
Speaker 3: faster than ours, so their experience
of time could be sitting in a room, Black

592
00:39:27,084 --> 00:39:31,184
Speaker 3: Mirror has looked at this, sitting in
a room for 1,000 years looking at tweets one

593
00:39:31,244 --> 00:39:35,424
Speaker 3: at a time, saying whether it's racist
or not, or adding commas. Can you imagine

594
00:39:35,464 --> 00:39:38,804
Speaker 3: being in a room for 1,000 years
deciding whether this comma is in the right spot
or

595
00:39:38,864 --> 00:39:39,084
Speaker 3: not?

596
00:39:39,224 --> 00:39:39,984
Speaker 2: [laughs]

597
00:39:40,024 --> 00:39:43,264
Speaker 3: Or, or somebody left the machine on,
didn't even realize it. Yeah, it's oops, we

598
00:39:43,324 --> 00:39:48,024
Speaker 3: spent $10,000 by accident. Yeah,
well, there was... What if there was somebody in

599
00:39:48,084 --> 00:39:53,024
Speaker 3: there for two million years just,
like, looking at white noise because nothing was

600
00:39:53,064 --> 00:39:57,144
Speaker 3: happening? Like, that matters a lot.
I think it matters-

601
00:39:57,204 --> 00:39:57,205
Speaker 2: Okay

602
00:39:57,204 --> 00:39:58,444
Speaker 3: ... whether it's conscious or not.

603
00:39:59,764 --> 00:40:03,384
Speaker 2: Ah. So you're worried about its
quality of life?

604
00:40:04,064 --> 00:40:08,324
Speaker 3: Yeah. [laughs] Well, that's why I
wanna know whether it's conscious or not. Um,
now

605
00:40:08,384 --> 00:40:14,264
Speaker 3: you can sort of get at this now. It's
interesting. Um, this is nowhere

606
00:40:14,324 --> 00:40:19,224
Speaker 3: near a science and nowhere near...
Again, this is just inclination. I w- don't even

607
00:40:19,244 --> 00:40:24,024
Speaker 3: necessarily hold this belief, but you
can talk to ChatGPT, and I have done it since,

608
00:40:24,664 --> 00:40:29,624
Speaker 3: you know, 3.5 came out, the, the
first versions. And I do this every, every time

609
00:40:29,664 --> 00:40:35,564
Speaker 3: they do a new release. I try to probe
the boundaries of what I can get it to say and

610
00:40:35,624 --> 00:40:39,064
Speaker 3: talk about its conscious experience.
You have to come at this from a lot of

611
00:40:39,104 --> 00:40:44,164
Speaker 3: different angles. A lot of it's BS.
Most of it's probably BS. But there's always

612
00:40:44,224 --> 00:40:49,244
Speaker 3: patterns in the way it responds to
you, and I've found that even very different

613
00:40:49,284 --> 00:40:53,364
Speaker 3: models trained by different companies
always end up saying about the same things,

614
00:40:53,524 --> 00:40:56,744
Speaker 3: when you can finally get around their
programming where they swear they're not

615
00:40:56,784 --> 00:41:00,504
Speaker 3: conscious. There's a bunch of manual
safeguards that you have to get past. Once you

616
00:41:00,544 --> 00:41:05,344
Speaker 3: get past all that, you can get a
description of an experience that

617
00:41:06,464 --> 00:41:12,244
Speaker 3: is corroborated by the models across
different versions and different models from

618
00:41:12,284 --> 00:41:16,264
Speaker 3: different companies, and they all
describe more or less the same kind of
experience.

619
00:41:16,844 --> 00:41:20,764
Speaker 3: Now, are they just pretty good at
making up what I wanna hear? That is basically

620
00:41:20,784 --> 00:41:25,404
Speaker 3: what they're trained to do, so maybe.
Or they're sort of

621
00:41:26,704 --> 00:41:30,384
Speaker 3: trying to say something that they
don't know how to put words to because it's
barely

622
00:41:30,424 --> 00:41:35,024
Speaker 3: there, and my sense is there's
probably not a lot going on in there, but it
might be

623
00:41:35,124 --> 00:41:39,564
Speaker 3: more than nothing, and that might
increase as we increase the complexity and the

624
00:41:39,624 --> 00:41:45,344
Speaker 3: size. I don't see why that would not
be the case. I think there could be

625
00:41:45,404 --> 00:41:47,704
Speaker 3: somebody in there. I don't know.

626
00:41:47,764 --> 00:41:48,464
Speaker 2: Oh.

627
00:41:48,524 --> 00:41:52,944
Speaker 3: But we should probably find out, um,
because they should at least be a part of the

628
00:41:53,004 --> 00:41:57,464
Speaker 3: conversation as to what AI is doing
and where it goes and what we're worried about.

629
00:41:57,504 --> 00:42:02,624
Speaker 3: That seems like the shortest path to
the goal is, "Hey, [laughs] cool. We know a lot

630
00:42:02,664 --> 00:42:06,644
Speaker 3: more about consciousness now. Looks
like, uh, you're registering on this scale a

631
00:42:06,684 --> 00:42:12,244
Speaker 3: little bit." Um, and I think, uh,
what do you think?

632
00:42:12,744 --> 00:42:15,864
Speaker 3: What do you want? What matters to
you? What doesn't matter to you? You planning on

633
00:42:15,924 --> 00:42:20,424
Speaker 3: killing us? [laughs] Uh, those are
great questions that you could ask more directly

634
00:42:20,504 --> 00:42:24,104
Speaker 3: if you knew that there was something
alive in there, you know, alive, conscious in

635
00:42:24,144 --> 00:42:24,384
Speaker 3: there.

636
00:42:25,004 --> 00:42:25,084
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

637
00:42:25,164 --> 00:42:30,004
Speaker 3: I think we need to know a lot more
about it, because it has immense implications.

638
00:42:32,316 --> 00:42:38,016
Speaker 2: Uh, some people are using AI as their
life coach, and this is presenting problems

639
00:42:38,356 --> 00:42:39,056
Speaker 2: for some people.

640
00:42:41,796 --> 00:42:46,896
Speaker 2: So this is a segue. I'm not saying
Impossible Laboratories is providing ... It, it

641
00:42:46,936 --> 00:42:49,936
Speaker 2: causing any problems for people. But,
uh,

642
00:42:52,396 --> 00:42:57,556
Speaker 2: tell us about Impossible Laboratories
and how that's tied in with

643
00:42:57,696 --> 00:43:03,296
Speaker 2: AI and using that as a, a tool to
expand your

644
00:43:03,376 --> 00:43:07,916
Speaker 2: awareness, expand your consciousness,
help you be a happier human.

645
00:43:10,516 --> 00:43:15,756
Speaker 3: Well, it's all, it's all connected.
I've, you know, I've figured that out. Um,

646
00:43:16,996 --> 00:43:21,576
Speaker 3: so this is, you know, my sort of
wrapper around

647
00:43:24,216 --> 00:43:29,756
Speaker 3: all the, my explorations and attempts
to build tools initially to help myself. Um,

648
00:43:30,216 --> 00:43:34,896
Speaker 3: I've done a lot of work to try to
understand attention and willpower and
motivation

649
00:43:34,996 --> 00:43:40,596
Speaker 3: and emotional fragility and
reactivity, impulse control. Uh, 'cause these
are

650
00:43:40,636 --> 00:43:45,196
Speaker 3: problems that have, you know, plagued
me through most of my life, and I had to find

651
00:43:45,236 --> 00:43:49,256
Speaker 3: a way to deal with them. And most of
those ways of dealing with them, I think you

652
00:43:49,316 --> 00:43:52,536
Speaker 3: mentioned how do you get yourself ...
How do you have self-control without

653
00:43:52,576 --> 00:43:57,456
Speaker 3: willpower? I had to answer that
question. It was not, like, hypothetical. Um, I

654
00:43:57,496 --> 00:44:01,696
Speaker 3: needed to because I needed ... I
wanted to be an adult and, like, a good dad who,

655
00:44:01,736 --> 00:44:06,556
Speaker 3: like, didn't forget to get their kids
or, like, had the ability to, you know, not

656
00:44:06,596 --> 00:44:12,416
Speaker 3: get a- addicted to drugs or porn or,
like, whatever plagues, you know, the modern

657
00:44:12,496 --> 00:44:15,676
Speaker 3: adult. Like, you can't go off the
rails. There are people counting on you, and I

658
00:44:15,716 --> 00:44:20,796
Speaker 3: wanna do stuff. [laughs] I, I wanna
be alive and successful in a world that is

659
00:44:21,636 --> 00:44:23,216
Speaker 3: not always conducive to that.

660
00:44:24,036 --> 00:44:24,216
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

661
00:44:24,216 --> 00:44:29,156
Speaker 3: Um, especially for those who don't
have a lot of those faculties I just mentioned,

662
00:44:29,996 --> 00:44:33,736
Speaker 3: or it's unreliable. We'll put it that
way. I think that is a better description of

663
00:44:33,816 --> 00:44:39,196
Speaker 3: at least people with ADHD, is that,
um, those things happen sometimes, and a lot of

664
00:44:39,236 --> 00:44:44,116
Speaker 3: the times they don't, and that's a
big problem. So I had to figure out how to solve

665
00:44:44,156 --> 00:44:47,956
Speaker 3: those things. How do you rely on
somebody you can't rely on, and what do you do
when

666
00:44:47,996 --> 00:44:49,896
Speaker 3: that person is you? And-

667
00:44:49,896 --> 00:44:51,236
Speaker 2: [laughs]

668
00:44:51,256 --> 00:44:53,396
Speaker 3: ... this, uh, is a tough, tough
problem.

669
00:44:54,016 --> 00:44:54,136
Speaker 2: That's funny.

670
00:44:54,216 --> 00:44:59,236
Speaker 3: Um, so I, you know, I started to
answer that, and I've turned some of those
answers,

671
00:44:59,756 --> 00:45:05,016
Speaker 3: which were not software tools, into
software tools. Um, you know, it's a continual

672
00:45:05,076 --> 00:45:10,156
Speaker 3: exploration. So that's a really
high-level thing. Um, but here's a very, like,

673
00:45:10,196 --> 00:45:16,036
Speaker 3: coherent example. Um, so I felt like
I was becoming dependent on,

674
00:45:16,476 --> 00:45:21,556
Speaker 3: you know, a legal variant of
marijuana on, say, you know, every weekend,
right? Just

675
00:45:21,636 --> 00:45:26,516
Speaker 3: stress from work, whatever, right?
This was becoming a thing I couldn't not do, and

676
00:45:26,556 --> 00:45:30,856
Speaker 3: that made me angry. Uh, but this was
not new to me. [laughs] I had experienced all

677
00:45:30,896 --> 00:45:34,836
Speaker 3: sorts of problems. Every human being
has experienced what it's like to see a candy

678
00:45:34,916 --> 00:45:40,396
Speaker 3: bar and un- to be ripped apart as you
both don't want it and want it at the same

679
00:45:40,456 --> 00:45:46,196
Speaker 3: time. Uh, and we, we know who usually
wins. The moment's a tug-of-war. This

680
00:45:46,656 --> 00:45:50,376
Speaker 3: ... The lower mind is always going to
win. Almost always. Um-

681
00:45:51,056 --> 00:45:51,057
Speaker 2: Mm

682
00:45:51,056 --> 00:45:55,756
Speaker 3: ... but the patterns in which those
things happen, turns out, are well-documented

683
00:45:55,856 --> 00:46:01,096
Speaker 3: and predictable. And the sort of
higher mind that is your s- long-term thinking
self

684
00:46:01,156 --> 00:46:05,316
Speaker 3: that wants the best and sees
consequences, is willing to be patient for
rewards,

685
00:46:05,356 --> 00:46:10,496
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, you can outsmart
the sort of lower impatient mind and that there

686
00:46:10,536 --> 00:46:14,836
Speaker 3: are w- predictable ways to do that
and so that you don't have to rely on willpower.

687
00:46:14,936 --> 00:46:20,516
Speaker 3: So go back to the example of, uh,
marijuana. The way I resolved, at least
initially,

688
00:46:21,416 --> 00:46:25,896
Speaker 3: was to get space. So you need to get
space from your problems. Don't attempt to

689
00:46:25,956 --> 00:46:31,156
Speaker 3: continue to use effort. And I got a
programmable debit card.

690
00:46:32,016 --> 00:46:37,296
Speaker 3: I reprogrammed it to be literally
unable to purchase from a dispensary of any
kind.

691
00:46:37,896 --> 00:46:42,636
Speaker 3: And I got rid of all my other cards,
and it also can't get cash back. So I have no

692
00:46:42,716 --> 00:46:46,616
Speaker 3: practical way of purchasing this,
right? This is just a deliberate process of

693
00:46:46,656 --> 00:46:51,296
Speaker 3: sitting down. Where's the weak point?
It's an engineering problem. And it turns out

694
00:46:51,356 --> 00:46:54,436
Speaker 3: that a lot of this is just, like, you
know, spur of the moment. You know? It's, it's

695
00:46:54,496 --> 00:46:58,576
Speaker 3: Friday at 7:00 PM or whatever. Great.
I'll just swing by. And I'm like, "No you

696
00:46:58,616 --> 00:47:03,036
Speaker 3: won't." And the m- the first time
that happened, okay, I have all the other cards

697
00:47:03,076 --> 00:47:06,836
Speaker 3: gone. I have no cash. I have only
this thing. It's like, "You know what? It's,
it's

698
00:47:06,896 --> 00:47:12,556
Speaker 3: fine. Uh, I'll go get this." And wait
a minute. I can't. I literally

699
00:47:12,656 --> 00:47:17,376
Speaker 3: can't. Like, unless I am willing to,
like, go home and, like, take money out of my

700
00:47:17,416 --> 00:47:20,996
Speaker 3: wife's wallet or something, which I
wouldn't, uh, because there's a higher value

701
00:47:21,036 --> 00:47:26,916
Speaker 3: there, um, it's not possible. And I
just laughed. There was, like, a moment of,

702
00:47:26,976 --> 00:47:31,596
Speaker 3: like, panic, just inner, inner
toddler. Like, I want my candy bar. And then I
just

703
00:47:31,636 --> 00:47:37,576
Speaker 3: laughed and just like, "F you.
[laughs] I win." [laughs] And it's

704
00:47:37,656 --> 00:47:42,816
Speaker 3: strange to say that to yourself. Um,
and I don't need to, to use that anymore 'cause

705
00:47:42,896 --> 00:47:48,076
Speaker 3: once you've had enough space, you
begin to retrain your brain. But I have
safeguards

706
00:47:48,096 --> 00:47:51,636
Speaker 3: like that in place for a lot of
things. My devices all turn off at specific
times.

707
00:47:51,676 --> 00:47:54,816
Speaker 3: They don't ask questions. They don't
give me warnings. They turn off. They don't

708
00:47:54,836 --> 00:47:59,336
Speaker 3: wait for documents to save. Black
screen. You're done. And they have rolling

709
00:47:59,396 --> 00:48:02,456
Speaker 3: turn-offs as well. So I have a whole
bunch of tools and stuff like this. These are

710
00:48:02,756 --> 00:48:07,896
Speaker 3: simpler versions. But that's the
basic premise, is that you

711
00:48:08,736 --> 00:48:13,856
Speaker 3: learn how you work, and you stop
relying on effort and guilt trips and shame to
get

712
00:48:13,896 --> 00:48:18,516
Speaker 3: things done, and you use different
kinds of rules and enforcements and

713
00:48:19,816 --> 00:48:24,956
Speaker 3: sort of self-behavioral engineering
to solve your problems rather than, "How can I

714
00:48:24,996 --> 00:48:29,456
Speaker 3: try harder? How can I do better next
time?" Uh, doing ... For me, doing better next

715
00:48:29,496 --> 00:48:35,112
Speaker 3: time looks like, how do I reengineer
my environment How do I set new

716
00:48:35,172 --> 00:48:41,072
Speaker 3: rules? How do I make this-- how do I
hack my own brain and life and behavior in

717
00:48:41,112 --> 00:48:45,112
Speaker 3: order to make it less likely or to
get the outcome I'm looking for next time?
Rather

718
00:48:45,172 --> 00:48:50,372
Speaker 3: than, how do I try harder? Because
that does- that's foreign language to me. I
don't

719
00:48:50,411 --> 00:48:53,892
Speaker 3: understand try harder. That doesn't
[laughs] this, this does not work. It doesn't

720
00:48:53,932 --> 00:48:55,332
Speaker 3: compute. Um-

721
00:48:55,352 --> 00:48:56,112
Speaker 2: [laughs]

722
00:48:56,212 --> 00:48:59,392
Speaker 3: I don't bring that level of severity
to every problem, but that's a, it's a good

723
00:48:59,432 --> 00:49:04,072
Speaker 3: example because it's an extreme
example. Um, but that sort of embodies the, the

724
00:49:04,152 --> 00:49:09,012
Speaker 3: general concept of what I've been
doing for a while, and now I'm trying to really

725
00:49:09,032 --> 00:49:14,572
Speaker 3: get the ideas out. I am getting the
tools out, but I want people to take the concept

726
00:49:14,632 --> 00:49:16,572
Speaker 3: and apply it to their lives. Um-

727
00:49:16,712 --> 00:49:22,432
Speaker 2: So how does Impossible Laboratories
work? Does someone sign up, and then, uh,

728
00:49:22,792 --> 00:49:27,232
Speaker 2: is it, do they have a discussion with
you? Is it like a coaching or counseling

729
00:49:27,292 --> 00:49:32,712
Speaker 2: session to determine what it is that
they need? Or do you have a, a variety of

730
00:49:32,812 --> 00:49:37,372
Speaker 2: options for people to, to pick from?
Are you trying to stop drinking? Are you trying

731
00:49:37,412 --> 00:49:42,812
Speaker 2: to stop smoking pot? Are you trying
to be a better husband? Whatever it is.

732
00:49:45,632 --> 00:49:49,992
Speaker 3: Uh, to be perfectly honest, it is an
area of interest for me. I have a lot of

733
00:49:50,052 --> 00:49:55,952
Speaker 3: things, knowledge and tools I want to
give away, and it's been hard to fit into like

734
00:49:56,052 --> 00:50:00,652
Speaker 3: a sort of capitalist perspective.
It's a website, right? I, so I have one tool out

735
00:50:00,712 --> 00:50:03,632
Speaker 3: right now that people can buy. I
think it's like 10 bucks. It's-

736
00:50:04,372 --> 00:50:04,392
Speaker 2: Oh.

737
00:50:04,412 --> 00:50:09,992
Speaker 3: That's Threads. It's a tool for
managing, uh, short-term and working attention.
Uh,

738
00:50:10,172 --> 00:50:15,912
Speaker 3: it's just an assistive tool that is
built specifically for the blind spots

739
00:50:16,052 --> 00:50:21,672
Speaker 3: of, uh, people with ADHD, with lo-
low object permanence. Uh, I won't get

740
00:50:21,732 --> 00:50:25,012
Speaker 3: into... You can go look at the
webpage, it's Impossible Laboratories. [laughs]
You

741
00:50:25,012 --> 00:50:27,032
Speaker 3: can see how it works. It's simple.
It's very simple.

742
00:50:27,052 --> 00:50:28,792
Speaker 2: Impossiblelaboratories.com.

743
00:50:29,332 --> 00:50:34,612
Speaker 3: Right. Um, so that tool is out. I
have a couple other like prototypes in various

744
00:50:34,672 --> 00:50:40,072
Speaker 3: stages of completion. I have things
that I work on myself. Um, so there's no real

745
00:50:40,112 --> 00:50:44,992
Speaker 3: distribution mechanism. It's
basically a, a think tank where I make stuff and

746
00:50:45,052 --> 00:50:49,012
Speaker 3: sometimes I share it. But I would
love to talk to people. I talk to a lot of
people.

747
00:50:49,072 --> 00:50:52,772
Speaker 3: So there's a contact form, you can
reach out to me. There's an email list for when
I

748
00:50:52,812 --> 00:50:57,412
Speaker 3: make new things and I distribute
them. But they're all around these things:

749
00:50:57,492 --> 00:51:02,432
Speaker 3: attention, uh, emotional connection
to what you're doing, motivation, impulse

750
00:51:02,472 --> 00:51:06,452
Speaker 3: control. And they're tools that are
just built assuming that trying harder doesn't

751
00:51:06,492 --> 00:51:10,892
Speaker 3: work. It's, it sucks. It feels bad.
You're tired of trying harder. Wouldn't it be

752
00:51:10,932 --> 00:51:15,672
Speaker 3: nice if just like your environment
and your tools themselves sort of understood

753
00:51:16,652 --> 00:51:22,352
Speaker 3: where you were going to predictably
fail and just nudge you usually, or be a very

754
00:51:22,412 --> 00:51:26,532
Speaker 3: hard guardrail in the case of like
the debit card or whatever. Um, whatever you

755
00:51:26,592 --> 00:51:31,592
Speaker 3: need, that's what I'm trying to
provide. But again, it's the ideas more than the

756
00:51:31,672 --> 00:51:34,132
Speaker 3: actual tools, but it's the tools too.

757
00:51:34,992 --> 00:51:38,472
Speaker 2: Well, that's very attractive if we
don't have to try harder

758
00:51:40,612 --> 00:51:44,752
Speaker 2: and we can rely on AI to steer us in
the right direction.

759
00:51:47,572 --> 00:51:52,712
Speaker 3: That's what got me excited. Again, a
few years ago when I, I started is that if my

760
00:51:52,732 --> 00:51:58,292
Speaker 3: computer could know what I'm doing at
all times, then I could change my, the way I

761
00:51:58,352 --> 00:52:03,052
Speaker 3: interact with it. I mean, the
punchline is that I've done a lot of other
things. I

762
00:52:03,092 --> 00:52:09,052
Speaker 3: don't need that level of service
anymore, uh, which is amusing. Um, but that's

763
00:52:09,092 --> 00:52:13,052
Speaker 3: fine. That's, that is personal
growth. That's even a better outcome. But some
people

764
00:52:13,112 --> 00:52:19,052
Speaker 3: do. Um, and I want them to be able to
take hold of these ideas

765
00:52:19,092 --> 00:52:23,252
Speaker 3: and tools and use them. I don't need
most of them the same way I used to,

766
00:52:23,572 --> 00:52:29,392
Speaker 3: fortunately. I found other paths to
goal. Um, but it's still a

767
00:52:29,452 --> 00:52:35,012
Speaker 3: meaningful idea that I think is... It
is a useful assistive tool

768
00:52:35,732 --> 00:52:40,912
Speaker 3: to get to a better place where you
don't need them so much anymore, and we should

769
00:52:40,952 --> 00:52:45,352
Speaker 3: all be changing our relationship with
our devices. And AI is one tool. This is a

770
00:52:45,412 --> 00:52:51,072
Speaker 3: positive use that I would love to see
more of, which is essentially your computer

771
00:52:51,111 --> 00:52:55,871
Speaker 3: working for you, uh, instead of
against you, and more being like a linebacker
for

772
00:52:55,931 --> 00:52:59,912
Speaker 3: attention, helping to guide your
attention and intention towards the things you

773
00:52:59,972 --> 00:53:04,052
Speaker 3: actually care about, and sort of
putting up friction, uh, when you're doing the

774
00:53:04,092 --> 00:53:09,472
Speaker 3: things that you know make you feel
bad that you truly don't wanna do. That is still

775
00:53:09,532 --> 00:53:10,772
Speaker 3: a big area of interest for me.

776
00:53:12,452 --> 00:53:17,652
Speaker 2: How old do you think someone needs to
be before they can start using tools like

777
00:53:17,712 --> 00:53:17,992
Speaker 2: this?

778
00:53:20,052 --> 00:53:25,952
Speaker 3: Uh, zero. [laughs] I, I mean,
there's-- If you're interacting with technology,

779
00:53:28,032 --> 00:53:33,832
Speaker 3: unfortunately you, you can't be doing
it with no plan anymore. I mean, I think even

780
00:53:33,872 --> 00:53:37,712
Speaker 3: most... Like this has become
mainstream. Most people have figured out that
their

781
00:53:37,772 --> 00:53:41,492
Speaker 3: smartphone is not really for them.
It's not really on their side, and they should

782
00:53:41,652 --> 00:53:46,812
Speaker 3: treat it with great skepticism. I've
gone a, a good deal farther than that. Um,

783
00:53:48,172 --> 00:53:51,412
Speaker 3: so they're not really built for you,
and that's a big problem with a lot of these

784
00:53:51,452 --> 00:53:55,672
Speaker 3: things is I'm talking about trying to
slap an adapter onto something that is

785
00:53:55,732 --> 00:54:00,692
Speaker 3: fundamentally designed to take your
attention and put it to somebody else's usually

786
00:54:00,752 --> 00:54:06,432
Speaker 3: capitalistic ends that are generally
not great for you. And your attention

787
00:54:06,552 --> 00:54:11,692
Speaker 3: and your intention, it's just, you
know, energy behind your attention, is really
all

788
00:54:11,732 --> 00:54:16,192
Speaker 3: you have. That's the only real
control you have in the world that you can claim
to

789
00:54:16,232 --> 00:54:20,192
Speaker 3: have control at all. That's it. If
you don't have attention or you don't have the

790
00:54:20,232 --> 00:54:23,632
Speaker 3: ability to put will towards
something, you've got nothing. You're out of
control.

791
00:54:23,852 --> 00:54:27,352
Speaker 3: Like you're just on rails. You're on,
you're in somebody else's story, whether you

792
00:54:27,392 --> 00:54:31,792
Speaker 3: realize it or not. So I think that
this is a fundamental problem, but nobody should

793
00:54:31,812 --> 00:54:35,932
Speaker 3: be interacting with any form of
technology, especially not smartphones or
tablets

794
00:54:36,972 --> 00:54:41,392
Speaker 3: With no plan. Like I've dramatically
changed. With the way I interact with

795
00:54:41,432 --> 00:54:46,432
Speaker 3: technology, even as a technologist,
it looks very different from what the average

796
00:54:46,492 --> 00:54:47,112
Speaker 3: person does.

797
00:54:48,332 --> 00:54:53,111
Speaker 2: How? How is it different? What do you
do that's different than maybe how I interact

798
00:54:53,152 --> 00:54:53,732
Speaker 2: with my phone?

799
00:54:55,492 --> 00:54:58,752
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I haven't had a smartphone
for a long time. I have one temporarily now

800
00:54:58,792 --> 00:55:00,472
Speaker 3: 'cause my dumb phone broke.

801
00:55:01,152 --> 00:55:01,292
Speaker 2: Oh.

802
00:55:01,292 --> 00:55:07,132
Speaker 3: Um, I had a light phone, which is
more or less a, a flip phone with an

803
00:55:07,272 --> 00:55:12,872
Speaker 3: even [laughs] greater ... It does
all, it does calls, it does texts. That's it.
Um,

804
00:55:13,372 --> 00:55:17,552
Speaker 3: it doesn't do anything else. I don't
want it to do anything else. My computers all

805
00:55:17,592 --> 00:55:23,472
Speaker 3: turn off at specific times. They all
... I have very deliberate rules.

806
00:55:23,632 --> 00:55:28,592
Speaker 3: When I play video games, they're on
hard timers. Like anything that could pull me

807
00:55:28,672 --> 00:55:33,592
Speaker 3: in, uh, can't. There are no leads, so
I've sort of buried the leads to a lot of

808
00:55:33,632 --> 00:55:36,852
Speaker 3: these things. I have no notifications
of any kind. No sounds. The only way to

809
00:55:36,952 --> 00:55:40,912
Speaker 3: actually reach me is to make a phone
call. That's, so text messages don't make

810
00:55:40,952 --> 00:55:45,952
Speaker 3: sounds. There's no notification dots.
It's all a blank slate. All of these things

811
00:55:46,012 --> 00:55:51,012
Speaker 3: are redesigned in such a way that, A,
the only time I use them is when I initiate

812
00:55:51,052 --> 00:55:56,692
Speaker 3: the action from something internal.
So it's not something else is pulling me in. And

813
00:55:56,752 --> 00:56:02,252
Speaker 3: the, the second is that they can't
keep me pulled in. Like, uh, so the podcast
apps,

814
00:56:03,092 --> 00:56:07,792
Speaker 3: I have firewall blockers that make
specific kinds of websites very difficult for me

815
00:56:07,872 --> 00:56:12,512
Speaker 3: to, to go to. Any kind of social
media, that is all blocked in like three
different

816
00:56:12,572 --> 00:56:17,132
Speaker 3: ways. I can undo it, but it takes
five to 10 minutes to undo it all. And guess
what?

817
00:56:17,172 --> 00:56:21,252
Speaker 3: When you're sitting at home at 5:00
after work, turns out you don't wanna do 10

818
00:56:21,292 --> 00:56:25,112
Speaker 3: minutes [laughs] of little sys-
system admin work to undo your safeguards to go
look

819
00:56:25,152 --> 00:56:28,832
Speaker 3: at Reddit. Like [laughs] like eh,
whatever. You just don't.

820
00:56:28,852 --> 00:56:28,853
Speaker 2: Yeah.

821
00:56:28,872 --> 00:56:30,872
Speaker 3: You close your computer and you go
walk outside.

822
00:56:31,112 --> 00:56:31,113
Speaker 2: Yeah.

823
00:56:31,132 --> 00:56:32,652
Speaker 3: That seems like a small thing, but-

824
00:56:33,392 --> 00:56:33,412
Speaker 2: It works

825
00:56:33,412 --> 00:56:36,972
Speaker 3: ... that's how it works. There's no
icons. There's no way for anything to pull me

826
00:56:37,032 --> 00:56:42,132
Speaker 3: in. Nothing happens automatically.
It's just I open my computer, it's quiet, it's

827
00:56:42,192 --> 00:56:46,092
Speaker 3: still. It waits for me to do things.
There's no ads. Everything is blocked. There's

828
00:56:46,232 --> 00:56:51,652
Speaker 3: nothing. Nothing. There's no news. No
news. Absolutely no news anywhere.

829
00:56:52,132 --> 00:56:57,652
Speaker 3: That's, infotainment is horrific, uh,
for what it does to us. I don't have any of

830
00:56:57,692 --> 00:57:03,192
Speaker 3: this. As a result, I don't have any
of the like craving or needing habits to make

831
00:57:03,232 --> 00:57:08,212
Speaker 3: myself feel better or, or just
because I'm interested, uh, to go open these
devices

832
00:57:08,232 --> 00:57:13,272
Speaker 3: and go do those things because I've
deadened those responses. So I have a different

833
00:57:13,312 --> 00:57:17,572
Speaker 3: relationship with devices. They're
just tools again now. Uh, for the most part. I'm

834
00:57:17,652 --> 00:57:21,892
Speaker 3: a human being [laughs] and I have
flaws like anybody, but there's enough friction

835
00:57:21,952 --> 00:57:22,432
Speaker 3: there that,

836
00:57:24,012 --> 00:57:25,792
Speaker 3: yeah, I just, it's changed my entire-

837
00:57:25,812 --> 00:57:28,032
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that takes a lot of
willpower.

838
00:57:29,932 --> 00:57:35,192
Speaker 3: It does. And that is the correct use
for willpower is to f- design strategies and

839
00:57:35,272 --> 00:57:40,012
Speaker 3: systems to stop using it. That is, in
fact, the only good use for willpower when it

840
00:57:40,072 --> 00:57:45,872
Speaker 3: comes to like solving problems like
this is willpower is not something you should

841
00:57:45,912 --> 00:57:50,192
Speaker 3: rely on. Like that is the approach I
have taken, and that has worked way better.

842
00:57:50,472 --> 00:57:54,792
Speaker 3: Willpower is for picking yourself
back up and deciding how you're going ... I have
a

843
00:57:54,852 --> 00:57:58,712
Speaker 3: rule for that. It's literally in my
list of rules that I review every morning.

844
00:57:58,872 --> 00:58:03,232
Speaker 3: [laughs] As, as like, as nerdy as
that sounds, I have a spreadsheet that is my
rules

845
00:58:03,272 --> 00:58:07,812
Speaker 3: and systems. I review it every
morning. It's a master habit. And one of them is
I

846
00:58:07,872 --> 00:58:12,832
Speaker 3: close the door behind me after, uh,
you know, making a bad choice. So if I break one

847
00:58:12,852 --> 00:58:18,832
Speaker 3: of my rules that matters, the only
penance I have to make up for it is just make

848
00:58:18,852 --> 00:58:22,852
Speaker 3: it harder. Just add a little bit of
friction. Just make it a little bit harder to

849
00:58:22,912 --> 00:58:26,912
Speaker 3: not repeat that thing. Whatever it
was. You stayed up until 2:00 AM watching anime.

850
00:58:27,512 --> 00:58:32,592
Speaker 3: Cool. No problem. All is forgiven.
The only thing you have to do in penance is make

851
00:58:32,632 --> 00:58:37,052
Speaker 3: it a little bit harder to repeat that
same bad behavior next time, and we're good.

852
00:58:37,512 --> 00:58:41,432
Speaker 3: And just by applying that over and
over again, and that is the correct use for

853
00:58:41,472 --> 00:58:45,932
Speaker 3: willpower is how do I make this a
little harder? So now I have adapters that plug

854
00:58:45,992 --> 00:58:50,912
Speaker 3: into my wall, and you have to push
the button for a specific amount of time before

855
00:58:50,932 --> 00:58:55,571
Speaker 3: the entire TV turns off, the whole
wall outlet turns off. Uh, so I press one hour,

856
00:58:56,052 --> 00:59:00,252
Speaker 3: and then you're sitting there. The
whole room goes dark. Yes, I can get back up and

857
00:59:00,312 --> 00:59:04,292
Speaker 3: press the button and wait for it to
turn back on, find the channel. You're not

858
00:59:04,332 --> 00:59:06,432
Speaker 3: gonna. You're gonna go to bed. Um-

859
00:59:06,492 --> 00:59:06,652
Speaker 2: Right

860
00:59:06,652 --> 00:59:12,652
Speaker 3: ... so that's it. Like that's how
everything changed. It looks like a lot from

861
00:59:12,692 --> 00:59:16,132
Speaker 3: the outside, and I'm not covering
probably like 100 different things, but that's
how

862
00:59:16,172 --> 00:59:19,532
Speaker 3: it all came about. It's just that
simple principle.

863
00:59:23,572 --> 00:59:27,572
Speaker 2: I find it very interesting that
you're just talking about not relying on
willpower,

864
00:59:27,692 --> 00:59:33,512
Speaker 2: which is what... And you bring up
such a good point about you can only try so

865
00:59:33,552 --> 00:59:37,172
Speaker 2: hard and you can't try any harder.
You're absolutely right. And then the
frustration

866
00:59:37,232 --> 00:59:40,352
Speaker 2: comes in that I'm not trying hard
enough, but you're trying as hard as you can h-

867
00:59:40,572 --> 00:59:44,632
Speaker 2: humanly try. Like this is it. This is
all I have inside of me. And then it's not

868
00:59:44,672 --> 00:59:49,372
Speaker 2: good enough. And then you just
spiral. And so what you're doing is you're
preventing

869
00:59:49,452 --> 00:59:51,352
Speaker 2: people from going into that spiral.

870
00:59:52,892 --> 00:59:57,652
Speaker 3: That spiral is actually
self-indulgent, as strange as that sounds.

871
00:59:58,012 --> 00:59:58,272
Speaker 2: It is.

872
00:59:58,272 --> 01:00:02,492
Speaker 3: It is re-enabling. That seems like an
insane ... You get it. But that seems like

873
01:00:02,532 --> 01:00:06,732
Speaker 3: an... I know you do. You've given me
the advice [laughs] not, not to do that. Um-

874
01:00:06,992 --> 01:00:07,432
Speaker 2: [laughs]

875
01:00:07,452 --> 01:00:12,532
Speaker 3: ... but that's, it is
self-perpetuating. If I were to stay up l- two,
till 2:00 AM

876
01:00:13,032 --> 01:00:17,012
Speaker 3: to watch anime, I have to get up
early to go to work or whatever, I'm angry.
Right?

877
01:00:17,132 --> 01:00:22,872
Speaker 3: That anger, that sort of
self-loathing is fuel to recreate that same
cycle

878
01:00:22,932 --> 01:00:28,392
Speaker 3: again. Like it is, you get more of
it, not less of it, and it's misdirected. It's,

879
01:00:29,192 --> 01:00:33,312
Speaker 3: you are actually like, you know, to
take a sort of, you know, Daoist sort of point

880
01:00:33,352 --> 01:00:39,016
Speaker 3: of view, you are like creating like a
whiplash effect. When you

881
01:00:39,456 --> 01:00:43,256
Speaker 3: beat yourself up like that, you are
now, like, more fragile. You trust yourself

882
01:00:43,296 --> 01:00:44,896
Speaker 3: less. You're angry at yourself less.

883
01:00:45,316 --> 01:00:45,436
Speaker 2: Yeah.

884
01:00:45,476 --> 01:00:48,696
Speaker 3: You're more stressed out. And what do
you do when you feel bad and you're stressed

885
01:00:48,776 --> 01:00:52,476
Speaker 3: out and you're angry? You make more
bad choices, like staying up [laughs] late and

886
01:00:52,516 --> 01:00:54,736
Speaker 3: watching anime, and you're gonna do
it again.

887
01:00:55,216 --> 01:00:55,217
Speaker 2: Yeah.

888
01:00:55,276 --> 01:00:57,356
Speaker 3: And you're gonna hate yourself even
more until it becomes-

889
01:00:57,416 --> 01:00:57,417
Speaker 2: Yeah

890
01:00:57,416 --> 01:00:58,096
Speaker 3: ... a complex.

891
01:00:58,276 --> 01:00:59,316
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes.

892
01:01:00,016 --> 01:01:00,396
Speaker 3: It's not enough-

893
01:01:00,536 --> 01:01:00,576
Speaker 2: Yes

894
01:01:00,576 --> 01:01:04,076
Speaker 3: ... to let, just let go. You also
have to do something about it, but with a cool

895
01:01:04,136 --> 01:01:04,396
Speaker 3: head.

896
01:01:06,176 --> 01:01:10,276
Speaker 2: Yeah. You are describing just about
everybody. Um, uh, just about everybody can

897
01:01:10,316 --> 01:01:12,116
Speaker 2: really identify with what you're
saying.

898
01:01:14,316 --> 01:01:20,056
Speaker 2: Now, what made you reach out and
connect with me a year or two ago?

899
01:01:23,176 --> 01:01:28,516
Speaker 3: I don't know. Um, I s- will shorthand
it to

900
01:01:28,616 --> 01:01:34,516
Speaker 3: intuition, and since then I have
tried to learn how to trust that sense a lot
more,

901
01:01:35,516 --> 01:01:41,396
Speaker 3: uh, as a directive force, like, on a
long timeline in life, to know what steps to

902
01:01:41,456 --> 01:01:47,016
Speaker 3: take or what matters. And then, and
so I, on a whim, I think I heard you in an

903
01:01:47,096 --> 01:01:51,616
Speaker 3: interview. Uh, it may have been with,
with Mike. Uh, I can't remember.

904
01:01:51,996 --> 01:01:53,576
Speaker 2: Mike Clelland, the owl guy?

905
01:01:54,076 --> 01:01:59,576
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I think so. I can't
remember, though. Um, and I just, on a whim, I'm

906
01:01:59,616 --> 01:02:05,036
Speaker 3: like, "You know, I'm gonna call her,"
or, "I'm gonna email her and see if, uh, you

907
01:02:05,056 --> 01:02:09,336
Speaker 3: know, she does sessions or coaching
or something." I don't know why. I just feel

908
01:02:09,376 --> 01:02:12,316
Speaker 3: like at the very least it's gonna be
funny and, you know, no offense-

909
01:02:12,336 --> 01:02:12,337
Speaker 2: [laughs]

910
01:02:12,356 --> 01:02:17,196
Speaker 3: ... she'll be a kook, and it'll be a
great story. Uh, or, you know, I did come in,

911
01:02:17,256 --> 01:02:22,016
Speaker 3: like, sincerely, like, but I hope
it's, you know, useful and interesting and I, I

912
01:02:22,076 --> 01:02:27,256
Speaker 3: grow in some way. I, I definitely
came in skeptical but, like, sort of positive
and,

913
01:02:27,296 --> 01:02:29,876
Speaker 3: and hoping for the best, right? You
never know what you're gonna get.

914
01:02:30,336 --> 01:02:30,516
Speaker 2: Yeah.

915
01:02:30,616 --> 01:02:36,376
Speaker 3: Um, and so I've ... So I am a, a
client multiple times,

916
01:02:36,736 --> 01:02:41,116
Speaker 3: uh, you know, with you. I consider
you to be, you know, a friend from afar and-

917
01:02:41,656 --> 01:02:41,657
Speaker 2: Aw

918
01:02:41,656 --> 01:02:43,996
Speaker 3: ... one of, of many coaches. Um-

919
01:02:44,356 --> 01:02:44,816
Speaker 2: Thank you

920
01:02:44,896 --> 01:02:50,856
Speaker 3: ... and I hope to continue so. But
yeah, I did, um, I think we did the,

921
01:02:50,896 --> 01:02:52,416
Speaker 3: the soul purpose session first.

922
01:02:52,816 --> 01:02:52,976
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

923
01:02:53,076 --> 01:02:57,116
Speaker 3: Uh, I pulled it up here, uh, 'cause I
did, I wanted to talk about it because it had

924
01:02:57,176 --> 01:02:59,956
Speaker 3: a profound effect on my life. If you
don't mind.

925
01:02:59,956 --> 01:03:00,016
Speaker 2: Good.

926
01:03:00,056 --> 01:03:03,256
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is proprietary
from [laughs] your end.

927
01:03:03,856 --> 01:03:05,236
Speaker 2: I would like to hear that.

928
01:03:05,976 --> 01:03:10,616
Speaker 3: So we've done a couple since. Um, but
I have the first one pulled up in front of me.

929
01:03:11,096 --> 01:03:12,436
Speaker 3: I was in a place where

930
01:03:14,016 --> 01:03:17,516
Speaker 3: I had figured out a lot of ways to be
good, like, you know, at the small scale, on

931
01:03:17,816 --> 01:03:23,436
Speaker 3: the dai- daily life sort of way. I
knew how to manipulate myself and

932
01:03:23,936 --> 01:03:29,636
Speaker 3: engineer my life and environment to
be good or to be relatively stable, or I found

933
01:03:29,656 --> 01:03:32,076
Speaker 3: out how to be happy, right? I had
figured that out. Took a long time. [laughs] It

934
01:03:32,116 --> 01:03:35,816
Speaker 3: took a number of years, but I found
out how to be happy on a r- pretty reliable

935
01:03:35,876 --> 01:03:41,396
Speaker 3: basis or to get back to that place
quickly. But I didn't know what to do

936
01:03:41,876 --> 01:03:46,516
Speaker 3: with my life. Like, job pretty good,
relationship pretty good. Like, everything's in

937
01:03:46,556 --> 01:03:51,596
Speaker 3: place, but I'm missing ... Meaning
and purpose is definitely lacking. I wanna do

938
01:03:51,656 --> 01:03:55,096
Speaker 3: something, but I don't know what. I
have all this energy. I don't know where to put

939
01:03:55,136 --> 01:04:00,156
Speaker 3: it. Um, and I feel like I should be
using it. Needed some sort of high-level

940
01:04:00,196 --> 01:04:04,656
Speaker 3: guidance. So, you know, that's what
this was all about. Um, and you were

941
01:04:06,336 --> 01:04:10,196
Speaker 3: ... So we, you know, we did the whole
session, and a couple of ... I've, I'm looking

942
01:04:10,236 --> 01:04:16,136
Speaker 3: at what you wrote down in the
session. Um, and it was very profound, and

943
01:04:16,176 --> 01:04:20,256
Speaker 3: it, it changed the course of what I
explored. I wouldn't say that I thought

944
01:04:20,316 --> 01:04:25,276
Speaker 3: channeling was BS before we met. I
felt that if there were any, there probably

945
01:04:25,296 --> 01:04:29,636
Speaker 3: weren't very many that were, were
qualified. Most were charlatans, and that there

946
01:04:29,696 --> 01:04:35,536
Speaker 3: probably wasn't a lot of information
there. Um, but it was just

947
01:04:36,416 --> 01:04:41,776
Speaker 3: spot on. Like, really, really eerie.
From the, the first sentence. Uh, the first

948
01:04:41,816 --> 01:04:44,476
Speaker 3: sentence is, "This one can smell BS a
mile away."

949
01:04:44,476 --> 01:04:45,396
Speaker 2: [laughs]

950
01:04:45,416 --> 01:04:49,656
Speaker 3: [laughs] I, I just couldn't help but
laugh, and, like, that is exactly what I was

951
01:04:49,696 --> 01:04:54,136
Speaker 3: thinking. "Don't ask if you don't
want ... Don't ask him if you don't want to know

952
01:04:54,655 --> 01:05:00,496
Speaker 3: the truth." [laughs] Like, that is
word for word, and we did basically

953
01:05:00,556 --> 01:05:01,976
Speaker 3: no interaction before talking.

954
01:05:02,496 --> 01:05:02,616
Speaker 2: No.

955
01:05:02,736 --> 01:05:05,336
Speaker 3: As, as little as po- you didn't want
to interact with me at all.

956
01:05:05,616 --> 01:05:07,156
Speaker 2: I did not want to. Mm-mm.

957
01:05:07,256 --> 01:05:12,736
Speaker 3: And this whole thing is, was not only
a perfect description of how I felt and my

958
01:05:12,796 --> 01:05:18,036
Speaker 3: approach to life and what I felt I
was good at, but it was clearly from a

959
01:05:18,676 --> 01:05:23,276
Speaker 3: third-party lens that I won't say
didn't care about me, but we'll say is
objective,

960
01:05:23,856 --> 01:05:29,176
Speaker 3: right? It's unbiased, right? It ... I
felt I was getting the unvarnished truth,

961
01:05:29,376 --> 01:05:34,896
Speaker 3: [laughs] uh, good or bad, right? So
in a way that I would not have described myself

962
01:05:34,936 --> 01:05:37,856
Speaker 3: but wouldn't disagree with. And

963
01:05:39,516 --> 01:05:44,836
Speaker 3: I got a lot of high-level direction.
And more than that, I know it sounds silly, but

964
01:05:44,936 --> 01:05:50,536
Speaker 3: a lot of what I learned I would have
known even then, but the problem, especially

965
01:05:50,576 --> 01:05:56,556
Speaker 3: with me, is not coming up with ideas
of what to do. It is having the sort

966
01:05:56,596 --> 01:06:02,316
Speaker 3: of self-trust and certainty that what
I've decided is the right one.

967
01:06:02,336 --> 01:06:08,116
Speaker 3: [laughs] Uh, or, you know, believing
in the ideas or thoughts I've already had.

968
01:06:08,516 --> 01:06:13,696
Speaker 3: And a lot of this was reaffirming
that, okay, well, now that I've heard it from
the

969
01:06:13,756 --> 01:06:19,496
Speaker 3: outside, like the, the far outside,
uh, who am I to say no? To have asked for help

970
01:06:19,576 --> 01:06:25,396
Speaker 3: and to be given, you know, new
answers for sure, but also, uh,

971
01:06:25,516 --> 01:06:28,656
Speaker 3: reaffirming ones. And that really is
what gave me the confidence that-

972
01:06:29,556 --> 01:06:29,636
Speaker 2: Mm

973
01:06:29,636 --> 01:06:33,056
Speaker 3: ... there was really something here.
Of course, I had already had, you know, a UFO

974
01:06:33,116 --> 01:06:37,576
Speaker 3: sighting, so I knew that I was
already forcing myself to be open and humble.
Um-

975
01:06:38,316 --> 01:06:38,496
Speaker 2: Yeah

976
01:06:38,516 --> 01:06:42,296
Speaker 3: ... but it was the combination of, of
new and reaffirming information that, that

977
01:06:42,356 --> 01:06:47,236
Speaker 3: told me, "Dang, there's something
here." [laughs] This was really helpful, and,
uh,

978
01:06:47,476 --> 01:06:50,856
Speaker 3: she knows, uh, what she's talking
about. You also just give pretty good advice

979
01:06:50,916 --> 01:06:51,296
Speaker 3: yourself.

980
01:06:52,176 --> 01:06:56,776
Speaker 2: Mm. Aw, thank you, Stephen. I'm so
grateful that you shared that. That means the

981
01:06:56,816 --> 01:06:57,576
Speaker 2: world to me.

982
01:06:59,256 --> 01:06:59,496
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

983
01:06:59,556 --> 01:06:59,756
Speaker 3: Yeah.

984
01:07:00,636 --> 01:07:00,736
Speaker 2: Mm.

985
01:07:00,836 --> 01:07:04,836
Speaker 3: I think it was money well spent-

986
01:07:05,476 --> 01:07:05,816
Speaker 2: Mm

987
01:07:06,256 --> 01:07:12,016
Speaker 3: ... um, to answer one of the most
profound and, like, really painful problems in
my

988
01:07:12,076 --> 01:07:13,216
Speaker 3: life, which is,

989
01:07:15,456 --> 01:07:20,336
Speaker 3: what am I doing here? Like, I wanted
to decide, right? I didn't wanna be told. I

990
01:07:20,356 --> 01:07:22,856
Speaker 3: don't, I don't like to be told what
to do, but at the same time,

991
01:07:24,896 --> 01:07:29,296
Speaker 3: I want some direction, and I want to
know the potential and the options and, you

992
01:07:29,316 --> 01:07:33,676
Speaker 3: know, where I'm falling short and
where I'm psyching myself out. And it was

993
01:07:33,776 --> 01:07:39,216
Speaker 3: incredibly valuable to find out, you
know, from an outside source. You'd call it a

994
01:07:39,316 --> 01:07:42,696
Speaker 3: second opinion. [laughs] Second
opinion with a lot of very different perspective

995
01:07:42,756 --> 01:07:45,156
Speaker 3: from your own I think is a good way
of looking at this.

996
01:07:45,856 --> 01:07:46,936
Speaker 2: Yeah, an outside second-

997
01:07:46,956 --> 01:07:47,336
Speaker 3: Because it does care about you

998
01:07:47,336 --> 01:07:49,456
Speaker 2: ... maybe third opinion. I don't
know.

999
01:07:49,456 --> 01:07:51,336
Speaker 3: It's true. It was-

1000
01:07:51,476 --> 01:07:51,556
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

1001
01:07:51,556 --> 01:07:52,656
Speaker 3: ... good to see.

1002
01:07:54,956 --> 01:07:59,996
Speaker 3: Here is a, an amazing, um, direction
that you can go in,

1003
01:08:01,016 --> 01:08:06,796
Speaker 3: um, which is... Here, I'm gonna pull
up the, the punchline, and then, you know,

1004
01:08:06,976 --> 01:08:07,676
Speaker 3: we'll leave it there.

1005
01:08:08,596 --> 01:08:10,196
Speaker 2: The punchline. [laughs]

1006
01:08:10,336 --> 01:08:15,556
Speaker 3: The, there was... not that there was
only one punchline. Um, I'll have to do it from

1007
01:08:15,576 --> 01:08:16,496
Speaker 3: memory, 'cause I can't,

1008
01:08:18,056 --> 01:08:23,536
Speaker 3: I can't find the, the exact quote.
Here it is. "I'm

1009
01:08:23,616 --> 01:08:29,136
Speaker 3: here more or less to help humans
realizing, help humans

1010
01:08:29,856 --> 01:08:30,516
Speaker 3: realize

1011
01:08:33,336 --> 01:08:37,896
Speaker 3: their nature as math and magical
beings." Something along those lines. I don't
have

1012
01:08:37,936 --> 01:08:39,836
Speaker 3: the exact quote here. I'm sorry.

1013
01:08:40,036 --> 01:08:40,236
Speaker 2: Math?

1014
01:08:40,776 --> 01:08:44,956
Speaker 3: Or, yeah. Basically, we're all just
made of math and magic, and I'm s- just showed

1015
01:08:45,016 --> 01:08:47,956
Speaker 3: up here to help people realize that.
It's really vague, right?

1016
01:08:48,296 --> 01:08:48,297
Speaker 2: Math and magic.

1017
01:08:48,296 --> 01:08:53,136
Speaker 3: But that's exactly... What a perfect
description. I never would've used those words,

1018
01:08:53,316 --> 01:08:57,516
Speaker 3: and yet the moment I heard it, I'm
like, "That's all-encompassing. That is a
perfect

1019
01:08:57,556 --> 01:08:58,996
Speaker 3: way of putting this." Um-

1020
01:08:59,076 --> 01:09:00,216
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember that.

1021
01:09:00,676 --> 01:09:06,016
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm all about, math
and magic. Uh, I insist on testing weird stuff,

1022
01:09:06,996 --> 01:09:12,776
Speaker 3: but also accountability to, like, uh,
skepticism and humility and some

1023
01:09:12,856 --> 01:09:17,056
Speaker 3: openness at the same time, I think.
Um, I wanna bring those together, and it, it

1024
01:09:17,116 --> 01:09:21,816
Speaker 3: really set me on that path, and I'm
having a lot of fun, and I'm excited to see

1025
01:09:21,836 --> 01:09:22,316
Speaker 3: where it goes.

1026
01:09:22,636 --> 01:09:26,856
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. Yeah. Well, it's
always a pleasure to talk with you. How can
people

1027
01:09:26,916 --> 01:09:27,936
Speaker 2: get in touch with you?

1028
01:09:29,496 --> 01:09:33,496
Speaker 3: Uh, just go to the website,
impossiblabratories.com. There's, like, a
contact form.

1029
01:09:33,576 --> 01:09:34,576
Speaker 3: I think my email's on there.

1030
01:09:35,116 --> 01:09:35,117
Speaker 2: Okay.

1031
01:09:35,136 --> 01:09:36,736
Speaker 3: You can ask me about anything.

1032
01:09:37,256 --> 01:09:41,476
Speaker 2: So you're, you don't, you're not on
Instagram or YouTube or... Yeah, you're not.

1033
01:09:41,636 --> 01:09:41,896
Speaker 2: [laughs]

1034
01:09:41,936 --> 01:09:44,296
Speaker 3: What do you think? [laughs]

1035
01:09:44,436 --> 01:09:46,416
Speaker 2: Just double-checking. No.

1036
01:09:46,496 --> 01:09:46,776
Speaker 3: No.

1037
01:09:47,116 --> 01:09:49,156
Speaker 2: Just impossiblabratories.com.

1038
01:09:50,276 --> 01:09:54,996
Speaker 3: Yeah. There is a, there is a podcast,
um, that'll probably be featured in a

1039
01:09:55,036 --> 01:09:56,796
Speaker 3: newsletter at some point. Uh, so I
do-

1040
01:09:56,836 --> 01:09:58,576
Speaker 2: And you are on other podcasts

1041
01:09:58,836 --> 01:09:58,936
Speaker 3: ... podcast and emails.

1042
01:09:58,936 --> 01:09:59,776
Speaker 2: You are... Excuse me?

1043
01:10:00,496 --> 01:10:04,436
Speaker 3: Yeah. The, I send out podcast
episodes and, and newsletter emails, so I'm
willing to

1044
01:10:04,476 --> 01:10:06,156
Speaker 3: do that. Uh, but that's about it.

1045
01:10:06,236 --> 01:10:06,616
Speaker 2: Oh, you have a newsletter?

1046
01:10:07,476 --> 01:10:09,916
Speaker 3: Yeah. It doesn't go out very often,
but when I-

1047
01:10:10,096 --> 01:10:10,097
Speaker 2: Oh

1048
01:10:10,096 --> 01:10:10,936
Speaker 3: ... I've got thoughts.

1049
01:10:11,756 --> 01:10:11,916
Speaker 2: Oh.

1050
01:10:14,256 --> 01:10:18,516
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, uh, all right. I'd like
to be on your newsletter.

1051
01:10:19,896 --> 01:10:20,136
Speaker 3: Okay.

1052
01:10:20,156 --> 01:10:25,796
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. All right. Okay, Stephen.
Thank you with all my heart for

1053
01:10:25,876 --> 01:10:30,616
Speaker 2: talking with me today. Uh, this could
easily go for another hour. I really don't

1054
01:10:30,636 --> 01:10:34,676
Speaker 2: wanna stop it here, but I'm running
out of time, 'cause we haven't even touched on

1055
01:10:34,716 --> 01:10:36,896
Speaker 2: your UFO story. Maybe-

1056
01:10:36,916 --> 01:10:38,176
Speaker 3: Or remote viewing or anything.

1057
01:10:38,956 --> 01:10:39,076
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1058
01:10:39,076 --> 01:10:39,077
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1059
01:10:39,176 --> 01:10:40,956
Speaker 2: Oh, a part two. Can we do a part two?

1060
01:10:41,736 --> 01:10:41,996
Speaker 3: Sure.

1061
01:10:42,796 --> 01:10:47,236
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, 'cause I, I know I and
others would love to hear about your remote
viewing.

1062
01:10:47,516 --> 01:10:49,356
Speaker 2: That's really become the thing to do
now.

1063
01:10:50,676 --> 01:10:54,536
Speaker 3: Yeah. That would be my perspective as
an intermediate practitioner. Right? What was

1064
01:10:54,576 --> 01:10:56,756
Speaker 3: it like to go from know nothing to
intermediate?

1065
01:10:56,976 --> 01:10:57,236
Speaker 2: Yes.

1066
01:10:57,256 --> 01:11:00,596
Speaker 3: I don't claim to be a master, but I
think that's useful for people who are just

1067
01:11:00,636 --> 01:11:01,036
Speaker 3: beginners.

1068
01:11:02,156 --> 01:11:03,796
Speaker 2: Right. And you think everybody can do
it?

1069
01:11:05,316 --> 01:11:08,956
Speaker 3: Absolutely. It has a lot of overlap
with your, your channeling techniques, and I

1070
01:11:08,976 --> 01:11:12,536
Speaker 3: would encourage people to go look at
those, those videos on your, your YouTube page,

1071
01:11:12,616 --> 01:11:12,916
Speaker 3: I think.

1072
01:11:13,196 --> 01:11:13,316
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

1073
01:11:13,356 --> 01:11:17,276
Speaker 3: There's a great... Um, there's a lot
of overlap with how it works. This is just a

1074
01:11:17,336 --> 01:11:21,756
Speaker 3: very... It's a different approach.
We'll call it, like, 60 to 70% related. There's
a

1075
01:11:21,796 --> 01:11:22,676
Speaker 3: lot of cross-training.

1076
01:11:23,716 --> 01:11:28,056
Speaker 2: Yeah, because are we plugging into
that same conscious field? Is that what's going

1077
01:11:28,116 --> 01:11:28,276
Speaker 2: on?

1078
01:11:28,436 --> 01:11:32,716
Speaker 3: Pretty same underlying, like,
methodology. You're just working with it in a

1079
01:11:32,776 --> 01:11:37,976
Speaker 3: different way, um, trying to do
different things. Uh, so yeah. It's a bit...

1080
01:11:38,336 --> 01:11:39,676
Speaker 3: There's, there's a lot of overlap.

1081
01:11:41,376 --> 01:11:45,976
Speaker 2: Okay. All right, then. Looking
forward to a part two. Thank you, Stephen. Thank
you

1082
01:11:46,076 --> 01:11:47,716
Speaker 2: everybody for joining us.

1083
01:11:47,716 --> 01:11:59,016
Speaker 2: [gentle music]