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Speaker 1: Hey everyone. So the format of this
first episode is a little bit different because

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Speaker 1: it's actually the first episode that
my friend and I, Joshua Swenson, who co-hosts

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Speaker 1: this limited series, we ever did, and
it worked so well that we decided to follow up

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Speaker 1: with this show. So Joshua was kind
enough to allow me to cross-post this first

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Speaker 1: interview, which has all the
important context that you're gonna need to
understand

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Speaker 1: the rest of Reality 101. If you'd
like to listen to the rest of Ruptures and
Roots,

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Speaker 1: you can use the link in the show
notes. So from here, everything after this
episode

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Speaker 1: is slightly different format. Enjoy.

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Speaker 1: [gentle music]

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the circle. This is
Ruptures and Roots, and I'm your fellow
traveler,

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Speaker 2: Joshua Swenson. This is a space for
deep listening and the sharing of stories of

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Speaker 2: rupture and transformation in
unprecedented times, and a life that roots into
the

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Speaker 2: cracks. Sitting in the circle with me
today is Steven Schrembeck. I first met

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Speaker 2: Steven through a class I joined last
fall called Techniques of Transcendence. I was

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Speaker 2: immediately struck by his curiosity
and tenacity in exploring the edges of

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Speaker 2: consciousness. I've loved hearing
Steven reflect on his encounters with anomalous

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Speaker 2: phenomena and the ways he's learned
to listen to and work with psychic and intuitive

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Speaker 2: capacities. Steven is a lifelong
tinkerer with interests ranging from sensory

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Speaker 2: substitution to societal incentives.
By trade, he's a software engineer, and by

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Speaker 2: avocation, a writer and explorer of
meaning. He's the author of horror short stories

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Speaker 2: and fantasy novels, and he also
writes nonfiction on intuition, consciousness,

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Speaker 2: extrasensory abilities, and how we
make sense of the unknown at

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Speaker 2: differentcompass.ink. In this
conversation, we sit together in curiosity,
exploring

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Speaker 2: rupture, perception, and what happens
when our understanding of reality begins to

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Speaker 2: stretch beyond its familiar bounds.
Welcome to the circle today, Steven. I'm honored

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Speaker 2: to be holding space for your story.
Is there anything more you'd like to say or

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Speaker 2: share by way of introduction?

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Speaker 1: You said it way better than I would
say it myself, so I better not.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, before we open the
space for your story, um, I always like to check

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Speaker 2: in if you'd like to share, uh, what's
alive for you today, what's on your heart and

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Speaker 2: mind, how you're arriving in the
space.

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Speaker 1: Uh, I arrived poring through some old
journals about what's happened to me over the

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Speaker 1: past few years, and I knew that it
was time to record with you 'cause I heard a

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Speaker 1: really high-pitched sound and felt
that sort of pressure in my head and went, "Oh,

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Speaker 1: cool. Guess it's time to go record."
Sure enough, I look up like, "All right. Who

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Speaker 1: needs an alarm?" Uh, so that's how
I'm arriving. [chuckles] How are you?

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Speaker 2: I've similarly been noticing
high-pitched noises. It's not quite the same,
like,

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Speaker 2: intensity as tinnitus, right? But
it's like it comes and goes at, like, unique

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Speaker 2: moments. I think we were... I was,
like, reading a text you sent once about it

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Speaker 2: coming up for you at one point, and
as I was reading the text, that ringing came in

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Speaker 2: my own ears. Um-

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Speaker 1: Sorry.

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Speaker 2: No, it's interesting. It's like a...
It feels to me like a signal of synchronicity.

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Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing, and thank
you for arriving today.

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Speaker 1: Let's see how many listeners get it
at th-

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Speaker 2: Yeah

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Speaker 1: ... at that exact same time right
now.

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Speaker 2: [chuckles] I'm arriving today with,
um, a feeling of accomplishment. Um,

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Speaker 2: I've been working on a trailer for
the television series I've been working on
called

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Speaker 2: The Lost Years, which is about the
forgotten years of Jesus' journey, uh, as

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Speaker 2: he travels through mys-mystery school
initiations. And, um, so I've been kind of

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Speaker 2: deep diving on AI filmmaking and, um,
put together a pretty badass trailer I'm

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Speaker 2: really excited about with some cool
music and images and, um, yeah,

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Speaker 2: feeling really accomplished and also
just really excited about this conversation

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Speaker 2: and, yeah, hearing more about your
story. So that's what I'm arriving with today.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to invite us both to take a
breath before we begin.

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Speaker 2: And whenever you're ready, what was
life like before the rupture or wherever it

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Speaker 2: feels right to begin?

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Speaker 1: I think I would like to preface this
with how hilarious and

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Speaker 1: ironic it is that I would be
describing, uh, my life before and after a
rupture.

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Speaker 1: As we'll get into any sort of
supernatural occurrence or [chuckles] mystical

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Speaker 1: experience, you, you'd have to know
me that, you know, like every child, I had

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Speaker 1: magical thinking, but at a pretty
young age, I don't know, nine, 10, start to
figure

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Speaker 1: out, "Oh, that's not cool." And from
that, more likely, you know, others will judge

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Speaker 1: me or, "Oh, this isn't real. I, I
gotta shut that down." And I think I did that
very

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Speaker 1: successfully. But I never stopped
liking stories and fantastical worlds. Uh,
that's

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Speaker 1: not unique among humans, but, you
know, I would-- In high school, I started
writing

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Speaker 1: creative fiction. Uh, I loved humor,
absurdist humor, fantasy, uh, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually I would get into horror.
That was an escape, and so was reading, and, uh,

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Speaker 1: I never stopped, like, loving
fictional magical worlds, but I think I needed a
world

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Speaker 1: that made sense to me. I became
logical. Uh, I liked

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Speaker 1: things that made sense. A lot of this
would end up being coping mechanisms for, uh,

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Speaker 1: ADHD, uh, various other acronyms that
are useful blueprints, and I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: find that out until much later in
life. But nonetheless, it affected my social
life,

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Speaker 1: and it helped me to see the world in
terms of systems and functions and things that

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Speaker 1: happen because of reasons, uh, in
ways that can be predicted and modeled. You
know,

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Speaker 1: 12-year-old Steven wasn't using those
words, but, you know, at the same time, you

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Speaker 1: know, we're clever. We find ways
around our problems. Why am I hyperactive? Why
do I

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Speaker 1: just blurt things out without saying
things? Why can't I sit here? Why am I so slow

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Speaker 1: on these tests? We find ways around
all those things, whether we realize it or not.

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Speaker 1: And so I had evolved into a person
that was fascinated with the natural world,

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Speaker 1: was also fascinated with very
separate [chuckles] fictional worlds, some of
which I

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Speaker 1: was creating. I loved science. Uh, I
went to, uh, college to become

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Speaker 1: a software developer. I never thought
I would get into that college. I never thought

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Speaker 1: I would be a software developer. Uh,
I didn't think I was smart enough. Uh, most of

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Speaker 1: my life, I didn't think I was smart
enough, which was counter to what I was told,

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Speaker 1: which was very difficult for me. Um,
what I hadn't realized until much later on is

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Speaker 1: that I had some basic learning
disabilities and that I was actually very slow
at

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Speaker 1: thinking. Had my thought process
measured, and I'm well below average in terms of

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Speaker 1: how slow I think. But I've got a
pretty good verbal intelligence, so I can just

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Speaker 1: kinda make stuff up until eventually
my brain catches up. But it explained why I

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Speaker 1: felt like I understood things, but I
struggled so much. And in a school setting that

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Speaker 1: was very rigorous and had timed
things, um, I was just slow, and I, I

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Speaker 1: mistook being slow for being dumb.
Uh, but that wouldn't hit me until later. All

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Speaker 1: that to say is that, you know, I'm a
person who is very orderly and logical,

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Speaker 1: and, um, I've just straight up made
fun of anything I didn't understand that I felt

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Speaker 1: was well outside the realm of
materialism, even when I didn't use those words.
Uh,

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Speaker 1: reason. I felt that everything could
be explained. If you could put the whole

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Speaker 1: physical universe, uh, you can know
the state of everything, and you had just enough

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Speaker 1: understanding of how it all worked,
you could predict everything forever, right? I,

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Speaker 1: I had that belief, uh, as recent as
six years ago, maybe five years ago.

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Speaker 1: [chuckles] So out of the important
context, that's who I was. Later in my adult

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Speaker 1: life, I would, uh, come to call
myself an atheist, uh, and it felt right. I
never

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Speaker 1: liked religion. Uh, I still don't. I
don't dislike people who are religious, but it

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Speaker 1: does not feel right for me. Uh, I
didn't like dogma. I never liked being told what

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Speaker 1: to do or what to think or what I
couldn't ask. Um, that bothered me a lot. I
always

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Speaker 1: liked questions, um, and I've always
had an accountability to truth, which, you

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Speaker 1: know, led me to questioning religion
and a l- a lot of things. I became vegan.

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Speaker 1: I've-- We parent our children in
pretty unusual ways. Uh, we've, you know, we
don't

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Speaker 1: go to a traditional schooling system.
[chuckles] We do a lot of things that are not

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Speaker 1: normal and weren't easy to make those
choices, but it felt right. Uh, so

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Speaker 1: that's what life was like before a
rupture for me. I had systems, I had rules, I

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Speaker 1: thought in structure. I had a
spreadsheet that I reviewed every morning of
here's

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Speaker 1: who I wanna be, here's how I work. I
had a whole life that was architected to keep

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Speaker 1: me together and keep everything
working. I got pretty good at it. [chuckles] I
got

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Speaker 1: pretty good at it, but it was still
so much work, um, just to be happy. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can pause there, uh, but
that, you know, that leads me into, I guess, um,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of change.

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Speaker 2: I resonate a lot with what you've
shared and, um, I really relate to that escape

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Speaker 2: into fantasy. I remember I didn't
feel in my skin or

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Speaker 2: comfortable with my relatives, and
anytime we would go to visit them, I would just

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Speaker 2: like read "Animorphs" and fantasy
novels and things like that, and I would always

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Speaker 2: get in trouble for just like wanting
to stay in the room and read, you know? But it

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Speaker 2: felt safer for me. A- and I guess I
also, you know, the way you framed it was like

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Speaker 2: this imaginal realm that children are
more in touch with. Imaginary friends, you

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Speaker 2: know, we think of them as not real.
For children inhabiting that space, it is real.

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Speaker 2: Like their imagination is so much
more active. They're just like constantly

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Speaker 2: role-playing and playing and
pretending. But we think of it as pretending,
right?

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Speaker 2: But they are really in that world,
and at some point, that begins to be shut down
by

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Speaker 2: all the voices around us and, you
know, society telling us, "You need to grow up.

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Speaker 2: You need to be serious."

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Speaker 2: Kids are just like in this realm that
are more in touch with this, um, maybe

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Speaker 2: like the ground of reality, like
consciousness, um.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Um, well, I think we'll come
back to the, the kid thing, uh, later

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Speaker 1: 'cause, um, I think this is a common
belief that especially in like spiritual

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Speaker 1: circles or a lot of these like
extrasensory perception circles, there's a

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Speaker 1: belief that like children are, are
better. There's this weird diminishment of
adults

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Speaker 1: and older people, which I'm happy to
say is not true. Uh, it's not fundamental,

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Speaker 1: right? It's-

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Speaker 2: Yeah

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Speaker 1: ... correlated, uh, but not
causative. I didn't get rid of statistics and
logical

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Speaker 1: thinking. I've just, uh, incorporated
it now into a bigger worldview. Um, so-

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Speaker 2: We could take a, we could take a
minute on that if you wanna go deeper on that.
You

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Speaker 2: know, that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: Um, sure. Uh, one of the ways I know
this is true

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Speaker 1: is that children just take the world
as it is. They're extremely malleable, but

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Speaker 1: they're also sponges, right? We, we
need our world models to function in the world.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: The ch- the world could not be run by
children. It would fall apart. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: work. We need adult selves, and I
think the real goal is to have the capacity to

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Speaker 1: shift in and out of being childlike
when it's appropriate, and that should be the

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Speaker 1: real goal, is to adult and wear pants
and do taxes when you have to, but then also

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Speaker 1: be able to dance and not care and
have fun and see the world as it is. And, um,

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Speaker 1: this can be shown. Um, there are a
number of psi abilities, so extrasensory

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Speaker 1: abilities that we'll get into, that
people thought only kids could do. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: the only instructors, which there
weren't very many, would only teach children

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Speaker 1: because they just straight up thought
adults couldn't do it. And I'm happy to report

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Speaker 1: that is absolutely not the case. And
there is no real difference between the

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Speaker 1: performance in, between children and
adults, especially when you don't tell the

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Speaker 1: adults that kids are better at it and
that adults are bad at it.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: If you leave all that out and just
tell them they can do it, they get basically the

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Speaker 1: same performance, which I thought is
very inspiring. It has nothing to do with being

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Speaker 1: a child or not. It's just that, yeah,
they don't have as much baggage. [chuckles]

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Speaker 1: That's for sure.

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Speaker 2: There's a phrase that came to mind,
uh, I think this is from Ken Wilber, the post

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Speaker 2: trans fallacy. It's a jargony phrase,
but it's essentially saying that, like,

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Speaker 2: children are in this flow state, you
know, everything really expression-

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Speaker 2: expressional, [chuckles] very
expressive. There we go.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: But they are not enlightened. You
know, you have to go through that journey of

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Speaker 2: losing touch with that state, going
through this process of, um, self-identification

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Speaker 2: in order to transcend the ego, right?

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Speaker 1: Um, I mean, they also hit people who
take their toys and pee themselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Yeah. I have two young
ones also. [chuckles]

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Speaker 1: There's, there's downsides to being a
child, you know? [both laughing]

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Speaker 2: I think just in this context of,
like, being in touch with the imaginal that, you

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Speaker 2: know, I was witnessing in your story,
you know, and that I resonate with. In our

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Speaker 2: culture, there's this, like, idea
that that is not as valid as, like, the logical

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Speaker 2: way of being. That's kind of like,
oh, you forget that and, like, you grow up and

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Speaker 2: you become a serious, focused,
rational adult. In a lot of circles, that's kind
of

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Speaker 2: like what, what it means to grow up
and mature in our society.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think the maturation extends
from there. I do think it's mostly

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Speaker 1: true. Gotta learn how to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And that parallels this arc
perfectly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so towards rupture, there isn't
a single break. I've broken a bunch of times

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Speaker 1: over and over again, and there's a
few that stand out and we'll get to those. A lot

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Speaker 1: of things happened to me that I can't
explain. They, they happen with increasing

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Speaker 1: frequency and magnitude, and we'll
get into some of those. But it all started, uh,

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Speaker 1: I'd say two thousand twenty-two,
maybe '21, is when I started getting very

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Speaker 1: serious about meditation and being
happy. Right? I wrote down here that I was

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Speaker 1: very reactive, hurried. I felt like I
was n- never doing enough. I was very

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Speaker 1: controlling. Um, and I, I control--
The way I maintained stability was

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Speaker 1: through systems and control, and it
was very...

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Speaker 1: It was oppressive, right? It was a
system that had to be maintained of self,

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Speaker 1: emotional control, relations,
everything, right? And if I fail, like it falls
apart.

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Speaker 1: I- [chuckles] So it's difficult. I
got very good at understanding the mind and

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Speaker 1: motivation, emotions and humans, but
you can only understand something so much by

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Speaker 1: taking it apart into pieces and
building tools and systems. At some point, you
reach

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Speaker 1: a limit. Was-- I was effective, but I
was unhappy, or it was

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Speaker 1: difficult to maintain it, and I hated
it, and I wanted a way to be happy. Like,

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Speaker 1: just by default, I wanted to not have
to try so hard all the time. And that led me

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Speaker 1: to, as with many people, uh, to
schools of Eastern thought, um, and I started to
get

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Speaker 1: very serious about meditation. And
that is when I started setting a daily habit of

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Speaker 1: twice a day for thirty minutes, which
would eventually turn into, uh, an hour, and

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Speaker 1: then now it's closer to two hours,
uh, a day of meditation. But I've kept it up

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Speaker 1: since then. I don't-- In terms of
recorded meditations, I'm near six hundred, but

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Speaker 1: many of them never got written down.
And that is when things started to change. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so I started doing those meditations,
and I had tried with like many people to do it

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Speaker 1: as a prescriptive thing. "Oh, it's
de-stress. Let's, uh..." [chuckles] Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: like a thing I have to do, like
exercise. And now it was beginning to be about

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Speaker 1: self-exploration. And I think what
really kicked it off was the book, "The

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Speaker 1: Untethered Soul." Just, just an
incredible piece of work. If you could only read
one

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Speaker 1: book, oh, that's a good one. I
realized, oh, wait a minute, you can use
meditation

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Speaker 1: for more than just feeling better.
Like, and it's more than just meditation, right?

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Speaker 1: You carry these practices throughout
your life. It's a way of seeing the world. And,

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Speaker 1: um, so I start doing it like, "Oh,
you can do inner exploration." [chuckles] What

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Speaker 1: does that even mean? And so I- I'm
like, "I want that experience." I thought you

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Speaker 1: could only get this with drugs. Um,
and so I start doing it, and I start to have

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Speaker 1: fascinating experiences, which are
mostly like, you know, a sense of floating or

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Speaker 1: zooming or conscious-- shifts in
consciousness. Nothing extraordinary, something

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Speaker 1: that anyone could get with thirty
minutes of serious meditation. But now I've

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Speaker 1: brought a sense of intention to this,
and that has changed everything. And I want

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Speaker 1: more of it. [chuckles] Right? Like, I
don't just, like, feel de-stressed. Like, I

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Speaker 1: feel like a different person. Like,
my second half of my day now is like, I'm less

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Speaker 1: reactive. Like, I feel more free. I
don't feel like I have to do things in the same

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Speaker 1: way. I feel like stuff is just coming
to me easier. And this becomes pretty good

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Speaker 1: motivation [chuckles] to keep
exploring. I'll pause there if you have any
questions,

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Speaker 1: but that's really what kicks it off.

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Speaker 2: Hmm. I relate to that. A shift in
meditation, um, I've been meditating for

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Speaker 2: about twenty years now, but for the
first like thirteen, fourteen years of that

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Speaker 2: time, you know, it was really like
this focus training when you're breathing. If
you

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Speaker 2: had noticed a thought, come back to
your breath, like don't, don't think, just be

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Speaker 2: present, like pushing away emotion,
pushing away thought. And for me, there was a

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Speaker 2: big shift when I began to kind of
become more present with my body and my emotions

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Speaker 2: and grief especially. And then
meditation became- I'm just gonna be present and
sit

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Speaker 2: with what's here and feel deeply into
my body, and there's just, like, so much that

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Speaker 2: opens up. Um, but yeah, really
interesting to hear the difference. I've never
heard

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Speaker 2: of "Untethered Soul," so I'm, I'm
always, like, interested in new book

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Speaker 2: recommendations too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very practical.

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: Um, so I, I begin to come at
meditation from I wanna understand how I

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Speaker 1: work, how consciousness works. Uh,
this begins to become a clear mystery of, like,
I

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Speaker 1: learn about the hard problem of
consciousness. It can't be explained easily by

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Speaker 1: material things. There's just a few
sticking points that just don't make sense. And

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Speaker 1: the question of why the hell is
anything here? Why does this exist at all? That

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Speaker 1: never left me since childhood. I will
say I held onto a few big questions, and I

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Speaker 1: never, I never bought [chuckles] any
popular lines for these things like, "I don't

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Speaker 1: know, man. Time is weird." [chuckles]
Existence is weird. Why am I here? Why am I

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Speaker 1: feeling anything? This doesn't make
any sense. And so I start to try to answer

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Speaker 1: those. Where are thoughts coming
from? Like, why-- how does my body work? How
does

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Speaker 1: it move? Where do my emotions come
from? What is my sense of self? Why does it seem

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Speaker 1: to stop at my skin, or does it? And
you begin to poke all these things, and you go,

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Speaker 1: "Holy crap, it does not."

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: And I can see where all these things
are coming from, and they're coming from not

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Speaker 1: me. [chuckles] What is this? And you
can peel these pieces back, and I begin to have

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Speaker 1: insights that, oh, there is something
here. And so I dive even deeper, and I start

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Speaker 1: taking it apart, right? I'm trying
to... This is still very left-brained, which is

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Speaker 1: hilarious, but this is what draws me
in. And then I begin to realize, I read the

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Speaker 1: Yoga Sutras. I'm like, "I'll just go
to the source of this." Like, here we go.

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Speaker 1: [chuckles] Let's see what these guys
had to say. And it's great. And I begin to

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Speaker 1: start to change the way I set goals.
Now, all of this does eventually turn into, uh,

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Speaker 1: ghosts, aliens, and psychic powers,
but-

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

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Speaker 1: ... it starts with self-improvement,
and actually, that never stops. Um, this whole

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Speaker 1: path is self-improvement. I've-- I
think I've mentioned to you that the most
uncanny

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Speaker 1: thing is that spiritual improvement
and self-improvement, the ability to do things

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Speaker 1: that do not make sense or comport
with standard material physics, is directly in

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Speaker 1: line with and really the same thing
as personal development. Working through your

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Speaker 1: problems is [chuckles] what gives you
psychic powers. It's, it's the most hilarious

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Speaker 1: thing in the world. Um, I could never
have predicted that.

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: Uh, but we'll touch on that. I start
becoming interested in unconditional states.

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Speaker 1: How can I be unconditionally okay or
happy? Or what is unconditional love? Can I

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Speaker 1: extend that to other people? And I
start thinking more in terms of non-duality of,

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Speaker 1: of self. Um, I am not just me, um,
but I'm also sort of connected to other things.
I

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Speaker 1: can feel it in meditation. I feel
these things start to happen. I start to think

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Speaker 1: about non-polarities, like good
versus evil is not really a real thing. Like, I

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Speaker 1: start to see the world differently.
Like, they are real, but they're like, uh,

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Speaker 1: forces, or they're just like
characters on a stage. Like, it's, it feels like
not

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Speaker 1: ultimately true. Or it's... Th- I see
everything in shades of gray now. It's more

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Speaker 1: nuanced. Um, and then weird things
start to happen to me.

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Speaker 1: [chuckles] You wouldn't think that,
oh, you know, meditating a lot and

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Speaker 1: going, uh, trying to learn these
things, being nice to people, realizing that you

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Speaker 1: are connected to, to other people.
Uh, at this time, like, I still consider myself

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Speaker 1: an atheist, a materialist. Like,
nothing has really changed, but everything has

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Speaker 1: started to change, right? Um, at the
same time, and I'm living these things, not

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Speaker 1: just in meditation, but I'm-- 'cause
it's making my life better. I'm happier. It's

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Speaker 1: easy to be happy. And I start to
change how I set goals, more from, like, how do
I

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Speaker 1: get a thing in five years to, like,
it being more important how I feel right now

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Speaker 1: and, like, how am I carrying myself?
What-- Am I living my values right now? And

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Speaker 1: more present-focused. It seems so
token to say those sort of things. It's very
token

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Speaker 1: advice. But I really leaned into it
because it [chuckles] obsessively, because it

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Speaker 1: made my life better. And the more I
did, the more things I did not expect to

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Speaker 1: start happening to me started
happening. So I guess that would be the moment
of

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Speaker 1: rupture if I had to, to pick it.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: Long lead-up, [chuckles] but I felt
it was important 'cause it wasn't a magical

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Speaker 1: thing. Didn't light a bunch of
candles. Uh, I didn't, you know, read any
spells. I

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Speaker 1: didn't get into any of that stuff.
Like, I didn't-

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Speaker 2: Mm

305
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Speaker 1: ... see any of this coming. I was
just trying to be happier and understand myself

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Speaker 1: and the world. That was it.

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Speaker 2: Hmm. The question about, like, where
do thoughts begin, I resonate with, um, and I'm

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Speaker 2: curious about, you know, your
experience being a fiction writer for such a
long

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Speaker 2: time. I read this book called "Big
Magic" by Elizabeth Gilbert, and that was a

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Speaker 2: paradigm-shifting book for me because
she talks about, like,

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Speaker 2: stories as these beings that exist
outside your own mind. And I think when I

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Speaker 2: first began writing, I thought all my
ideas came from my own head and

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Speaker 2: maybe my life history and, you know,
my interests. But the more I sat with it,

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Speaker 2: the more, like, I became comfortable
sitting in the uncertainty and opening

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Speaker 2: to what wanted to come through me. My
idea of, like, where the stories come from

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Speaker 2: totally shifted, where now I think,
yeah, I, I think that the story is a being that

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Speaker 2: exists outside space-time or in
another realm, another frequency of
consciousness, I

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Speaker 2: guess, and that I'm kind of this
conduit, and it is expressing itself into the
world

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Speaker 2: through me. I'll have no idea what
I'm gonna write, um, or I'll just have, like, an

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Speaker 2: inkling of it, and I'll just sit down
with my notebook, pen in hand, and I'll just

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Speaker 2: sit there in a kind of receptive
state And then an idea strikes me and an image

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Speaker 2: comes to me. And it's not like I
thought of an image. I thought of the... It
comes

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Speaker 2: to me. And yeah, and then the more I
thought about that and practicing meditation,

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Speaker 2: you're really, like, exploring your
thoughts, exploring your consciousness. Um,

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Speaker 2: I'm also like, I don't know where,
where are these words coming from right now? How

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Speaker 2: am I forming words? How am I talking
to you? How are we holding the thread of this

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Speaker 2: conversation? Like, all of that is
just a mystery. It's pretty weird. [chuckles]

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, nothing but mysteries. Uh,
I-- even though I accepted the

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Speaker 1: value, you know, I had those models
for materialism and the, the belief in reason

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Speaker 1: and logic and scientific method, and
all of these tools and models for understanding

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00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:09,076
Speaker 1: the world, they were very
foundational, but they were not the most
foundational

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Speaker 1: beliefs I had. Those were really an
accountability to truth and curiosity, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately, those won out. [chuckles]
It was, was not easy, um,

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Speaker 1: but I pursued a first-hand
exploration, right? That is another way of
truth.

335
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Speaker 1: You can prove something through
mathematics, through, uh... Or you can come near
to

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Speaker 1: proving a theory w-with science,
right? To a degree of sufficiency anyway, right?

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00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:40,476
Speaker 1: Those are excellent tools. They're
still awesome. They're still great. However,

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Speaker 1: first-hand exploration is also just
as valid, right? If you hear a crazy idea, and

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Speaker 1: I've heard many-

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

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00:25:48,096 --> 00:25:49,696
Speaker 1: ... I just started following up on
them. Like-

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: "I'll try it."

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: "We'll see what happens." I kept
doing that, and it kept surprising me, and it
kept

346
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Speaker 1: working, and [chuckles] I haven't
stopped. Not everything worked, but enough of
them

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Speaker 1: did that I began to realize, uh,
well, I guess we'll go with the moment of
rupture

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Speaker 1: here. Uh, that would probably be the
first UFO experience that I have, a sighting.

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Speaker 1: Um, I think at that point in time, I
h- the, like, congressional hearings with David

350
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Speaker 1: Grusch had happened recently, and I'm
like, "What? All right, what is this?"

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Speaker 1: [chuckles] I looked into this, and
I'm like, "Did he just say what I thought he

352
00:26:24,556 --> 00:26:29,996
Speaker 1: said?" And so I start looking into
this, and, and then, of course, then I see one.

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Speaker 1: Um, I mean, I can describe the
experience, but this one is not spectacular. Um,
I'm

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Speaker 1: just looking out the back window, and
I see just, like, almost like a swarm of,

355
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Speaker 1: like, jellyfish. There's just these
flashing white lights in the distance on the

356
00:26:44,356 --> 00:26:47,796
Speaker 1: horizon, and they're firing like a
neural network. It's like do, do, do, do, do.

357
00:26:47,976 --> 00:26:47,977
Speaker 2: Hmm.

358
00:26:47,996 --> 00:26:53,756
Speaker 1: Like in a series. And it's just like
a cloud. Um, they weren't drones. Uh, the

359
00:26:53,816 --> 00:26:57,816
Speaker 1: light was weird. It was different. It
was so bright, it was almost, like, angry. It

360
00:26:57,856 --> 00:27:02,376
Speaker 1: was, like, piercing. Like, it was
kinda like the sunlight is much brighter than a

361
00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:06,856
Speaker 1: flashlight, but you can't tell
because our eyes have, like, a, a
log-logarithmic,

362
00:27:07,156 --> 00:27:12,816
Speaker 1: um, like, curve to them in terms of
sensitivity. So a sunlight and flashlight might

363
00:27:12,876 --> 00:27:18,276
Speaker 1: look similar, but the sun is way, way
brighter [chuckles] than you think it is. This

364
00:27:18,316 --> 00:27:23,116
Speaker 1: was like that. It was exceedingly
bright, but only for a second. And I'm like, "Am
I

365
00:27:23,176 --> 00:27:29,156
Speaker 1: really seeing this?" Like, that's
crazy. And that's it. They just float by, and
that

366
00:27:29,256 --> 00:27:33,956
Speaker 1: started, of course, this, like, UFOs
are a gateway drug, as many people know.

367
00:27:33,956 --> 00:27:34,676
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

368
00:27:34,756 --> 00:27:40,396
Speaker 1: Uh, not by accident, as I later find
out, uh, of course. And, you know, become

369
00:27:40,476 --> 00:27:45,796
Speaker 1: obsessed about this. I needed to know
because this doesn't fit my world model. And,

370
00:27:45,876 --> 00:27:50,556
Speaker 1: um, I continue to meditate, I
continue to explore, but now I'm starting to
look into

371
00:27:50,616 --> 00:27:55,336
Speaker 1: other things as well. Uh, and they
start to come across my path. Um, so those are

372
00:27:55,416 --> 00:27:59,916
Speaker 1: extrasensory abilities. Even, like,
traditional stuff. Dean Radin's books, get into

373
00:27:59,976 --> 00:28:05,136
Speaker 1: those. Great stuff. These are modern
takes on, on magic. The Yoga Sutras even

374
00:28:05,176 --> 00:28:08,896
Speaker 1: describe siddhis. I start looking
into that. I'm like, "What is this?" Like, all

375
00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:11,516
Speaker 1: these people are talking about this.
Maybe there's something... I was wrong about

376
00:28:11,596 --> 00:28:15,776
Speaker 1: this. What else am I wrong about,
right? That is the one crack that shatters

377
00:28:15,836 --> 00:28:21,836
Speaker 1: everything else, is, "Okay, well, I
was really wrong. Like, why would I not

378
00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:25,796
Speaker 1: be really wrong about all this other
stuff?" So now I have to go do another, on my

379
00:28:25,876 --> 00:28:30,816
Speaker 1: own. Fine. All right. Let's go look
into [chuckles] cryptozoology. Look into all of

380
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:35,096
Speaker 1: these things because I don't know
what else is wrong. And to my great surprise,
um,

381
00:28:35,675 --> 00:28:41,216
Speaker 1: many of them end up being true, so I
start testing them firsthand. Um, and I

382
00:28:41,276 --> 00:28:46,496
Speaker 1: have another UFO experience. Uh, I'm
in a pretty deep non-dual meditative state

383
00:28:46,976 --> 00:28:50,676
Speaker 1: after a child's birthday party. Only
somebody with y- very young children could

384
00:28:50,736 --> 00:28:52,896
Speaker 1: possibly understand why that would be
necessary.

385
00:28:52,896 --> 00:28:53,356
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

386
00:28:53,396 --> 00:28:58,856
Speaker 1: It's like a four-hour party, and by
the end, it's at an arcade. I'm just like, "I'm

387
00:28:58,916 --> 00:29:02,096
Speaker 1: either gonna die or I'm gonna have to
enter some sort of trance state here to

388
00:29:02,136 --> 00:29:08,036
Speaker 1: survive." [chuckles] So I do, and I'm
pretty deep in it. I don't have,

389
00:29:08,056 --> 00:29:12,596
Speaker 1: like, complete ego dissolution, but
I'm, I'm a field of awareness. And I decide-- We

390
00:29:12,636 --> 00:29:17,696
Speaker 1: get home. I decide to go for a run,
and I'm running, and I'm just, like, watching a

391
00:29:17,736 --> 00:29:23,716
Speaker 1: person run. [chuckles] So, like,
cool. Uh, I'm pretty out there. And then

392
00:29:23,816 --> 00:29:27,116
Speaker 1: I look up. I have a feeling I'm going
to see something on the way home. I'm in the

393
00:29:27,176 --> 00:29:31,656
Speaker 1: passenger seat. My wife is driving. I
get home, and I go for a run, and I look up

394
00:29:31,736 --> 00:29:37,136
Speaker 1: over my house, and I see a
four-foot-ish tall,

395
00:29:37,776 --> 00:29:42,776
Speaker 1: uh, matte black kidney bean-shaped
object floating in a straight line about a

396
00:29:42,836 --> 00:29:46,976
Speaker 1: quarter of a mile behind my house,
and it goes behind a tree line. It's just
flight-

397
00:29:47,236 --> 00:29:52,936
Speaker 1: floating in a straight line. Um, and
of course, I see it. I'm pretty deep in. And I

398
00:29:52,976 --> 00:29:56,396
Speaker 1: go, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense."
That's literally the thought that comes to my
mind

399
00:29:56,476 --> 00:30:00,436
Speaker 1: after having almost no thoughts for a
while. I'm like, "Yeah, that makes sense." And

400
00:30:00,476 --> 00:30:04,696
Speaker 1: then I start to get pulled out of
that real quick, and I go, "Wait a minute. What

401
00:30:04,756 --> 00:30:10,556
Speaker 1: the hell? No, no, no. [chuckles]
What, what am I looking at?" Uh, that actually

402
00:30:10,596 --> 00:30:15,656
Speaker 1: shouldn't exist, and I snap back to
association pretty quickly, and then I start to

403
00:30:15,716 --> 00:30:21,416
Speaker 1: panic. Like, I wanna go, like- Jump
some fences and go, like, run at this thing

404
00:30:21,456 --> 00:30:24,976
Speaker 1: 'cause it's, like, in a cul-de-sac in
the neighborhood behind us. I'm like, "I wanna

405
00:30:24,996 --> 00:30:29,336
Speaker 1: go look at this." Um, it's got this,
like, mother-of-pearl sheen on it, and it's

406
00:30:29,396 --> 00:30:35,396
Speaker 1: floating in a, in a line. Like, this
thing is not moving. Um, and then

407
00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:40,096
Speaker 1: I start to get very scared. I'm like,
"Oh, I can't do that." Like, if I go run and

408
00:30:40,156 --> 00:30:44,816
Speaker 1: try to find this thing, like,
nobody's gonna know if I, [chuckles] if I
disappear.

409
00:30:45,016 --> 00:30:50,916
Speaker 1: Literally nobody on this planet could
help me if this goes wrong. Um, and but so

410
00:30:50,956 --> 00:30:54,576
Speaker 1: that one really rocks my world
because I know what I've seen, right? This isn't
just

411
00:30:54,596 --> 00:31:00,536
Speaker 1: some lights in the distance. Like,
this is a physical appearing thing, right? Uh,
I,

412
00:31:01,076 --> 00:31:04,856
Speaker 1: and I know what I saw. I drew
pictures immediately afterward. I tried to
describe

413
00:31:04,916 --> 00:31:10,356
Speaker 1: everything I could in my own
journals, and that rocked my world, and I took a
lot of

414
00:31:10,396 --> 00:31:16,016
Speaker 1: these things much more seriously. And
then, of course, after that, I do end up

415
00:31:16,056 --> 00:31:21,516
Speaker 1: having two more UFO experiences, but
that is when I start to have more personal and

416
00:31:21,556 --> 00:31:26,536
Speaker 1: profound experiences that are not,
like, in the sky or not happening outside of me,

417
00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:32,216
Speaker 1: uh, but are definitely happening to
me. It feels much more personal and directed, so

418
00:31:32,296 --> 00:31:33,376
Speaker 1: I mean, we can get into that, but-

419
00:31:33,716 --> 00:31:33,776
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

420
00:31:33,796 --> 00:31:34,876
Speaker 1: ... whatever you wanna get into.

421
00:31:34,956 --> 00:31:40,876
Speaker 2: [chuckles] Uh, thank you for sharing
that. I love the impulse that you

422
00:31:40,936 --> 00:31:44,536
Speaker 2: had to run at the being, but then
you're like, "Maybe I shouldn't." [chuckles]

423
00:31:44,576 --> 00:31:46,996
Speaker 1: I... Actually, that's a bad idea.
[chuckles]

424
00:31:47,096 --> 00:31:50,936
Speaker 2: I don't know where this thing could
take me or what this thing is. Yeah. [chuckles]

425
00:31:50,976 --> 00:31:53,396
Speaker 1: Yeah. Who's gonna save me? [chuckles]

426
00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:56,456
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm a similar kind of
thing. Like, if I saw something, I'd be like,

427
00:31:56,456 --> 00:31:59,416
Speaker 2: "Yes!" Like, "Finally." [chuckles]

428
00:31:59,476 --> 00:32:00,896
Speaker 1: You think you'd be excited, but-

429
00:32:01,056 --> 00:32:01,057
Speaker 2: Yeah

430
00:32:01,056 --> 00:32:02,276
Speaker 1: ... when you're actually there-

431
00:32:02,596 --> 00:32:02,636
Speaker 2: Mm

432
00:32:02,636 --> 00:32:06,756
Speaker 1: ... and it's actually in front of
you, you're like, "Holy shit."

433
00:32:07,196 --> 00:32:08,396
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, ontological shock-

434
00:32:08,476 --> 00:32:08,516
Speaker 1: I am-

435
00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:09,216
Speaker 2: ... terror, yeah.

436
00:32:09,896 --> 00:32:11,756
Speaker 1: I'm legitimately horrified.

437
00:32:12,096 --> 00:32:12,256
Speaker 2: Mm.

438
00:32:12,336 --> 00:32:15,056
Speaker 1: But I was also fascinated at the same
time. I was really being-

439
00:32:15,116 --> 00:32:15,117
Speaker 2: Yeah

440
00:32:15,116 --> 00:32:17,636
Speaker 1: ... ripped apart there. [chuckles]

441
00:32:17,676 --> 00:32:20,796
Speaker 2: Mm. Being ripped apart. [chuckles]

442
00:32:20,796 --> 00:32:20,996
Speaker 1: [chuckles]

443
00:32:21,116 --> 00:32:26,755
Speaker 2: Um, I, I like the phrase you used,
UFOs were a gateway drug. I mean, you had an

444
00:32:26,796 --> 00:32:31,276
Speaker 2: experience that shattered your
reality. You know, you could've just been like,
"Oh,

445
00:32:31,336 --> 00:32:34,896
Speaker 2: that didn't really happen," or maybe
it was not... I was seeing something or I

446
00:32:34,936 --> 00:32:37,876
Speaker 2: wasn't in my right mind, which is
maybe how a lot of people would write that off.

447
00:32:38,316 --> 00:32:41,396
Speaker 2: But I think it happened because you
were, you know, already doing all this inner

448
00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:45,756
Speaker 2: work and meditation, and you're
already on this process of experiencing paradigm

449
00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:51,716
Speaker 2: shift. Um, and it kind of was like a,
the experience that could, like, invite you

450
00:32:51,776 --> 00:32:57,656
Speaker 2: into something deeper maybe. My own
experience, um, encountering my, like, the

451
00:32:57,716 --> 00:33:02,496
Speaker 2: chakras in my body, um, I had, like,
a, what I understand to be a kundalini

452
00:33:02,576 --> 00:33:08,496
Speaker 2: awakening, um, and energy
experiences, big, really big energy

453
00:33:09,096 --> 00:33:10,996
Speaker 2: state, energy body experiences-

454
00:33:11,596 --> 00:33:11,616
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

455
00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:17,556
Speaker 2: ... um, in many psychedelic journeys,
and outside of them too, that, uh, shatter-

456
00:33:17,696 --> 00:33:21,356
Speaker 2: like, that were... I mean, like,
similar to you, there were all these ruptures
along

457
00:33:21,396 --> 00:33:25,456
Speaker 2: the way, but that was a really big
paradigm shift where I was like... I mean, I
knew

458
00:33:25,556 --> 00:33:29,956
Speaker 2: about them. I'd studied, like,
meditation. I was fascinated with the siddhis
when I

459
00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:35,736
Speaker 2: was, uh, an undergrad and beginning
to study Buddhism, you know, loving fantasy

460
00:33:35,796 --> 00:33:38,696
Speaker 2: novels. I was like, "Oh, yogic
superpowers." Like, "I'd love to have-"

461
00:33:39,116 --> 00:33:39,156
Speaker 1: Yeah

462
00:33:39,216 --> 00:33:44,116
Speaker 2: "... some of those." [chuckles] Um,
but yeah, you know, it was like, it was

463
00:33:45,736 --> 00:33:49,436
Speaker 2: finally an experience that happened
to me that was, like, outside of the, you know,

464
00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:53,996
Speaker 2: the, the paradigm I had been
inhabiting, and it was just, like, really
personal and

465
00:33:54,076 --> 00:33:59,596
Speaker 2: intimate and real. And I don't know
what I thought about. Like, these things exist

466
00:33:59,656 --> 00:34:05,116
Speaker 2: on our peripheries. Like, everybody
knows that people tell stories about UFOs or

467
00:34:05,596 --> 00:34:09,716
Speaker 2: that there are people out there who
claim to have had experiences with UFOs. Like,

468
00:34:09,816 --> 00:34:13,196
Speaker 2: I, when we were growing up, you know,
or, you know, in the m- mainstream culture,

469
00:34:14,236 --> 00:34:18,816
Speaker 2: all of these traditions that talk
about body energy, chakra, chi, prana, like

470
00:34:18,876 --> 00:34:24,836
Speaker 2: kundalini, like all over the world.
But somehow you're just kind of like, I don't

471
00:34:24,876 --> 00:34:28,496
Speaker 2: know where, what I thought of it. I
can't even relate to myself back then. Like,

472
00:34:28,896 --> 00:34:29,996
Speaker 2: what did I think that was?

473
00:34:30,716 --> 00:34:30,796
Speaker 1: Yeah.

474
00:34:31,216 --> 00:34:34,696
Speaker 2: Until I had an experience and I was
like, "Oh my God, the chakras are real."

475
00:34:34,976 --> 00:34:37,436
Speaker 1: You have to. You have to experience
it firsthand.

476
00:34:37,735 --> 00:34:37,736
Speaker 2: Yeah.

477
00:34:37,776 --> 00:34:38,596
Speaker 1: There's no replacement.

478
00:34:39,175 --> 00:34:39,235
Speaker 2: Mm.

479
00:34:39,276 --> 00:34:42,876
Speaker 1: You can't be told, and that is also a
running theme here, is that you have to be

480
00:34:42,916 --> 00:34:47,876
Speaker 1: shown. Being told is enough to get
you to go, but you have to seek it out. This is

481
00:34:47,936 --> 00:34:51,536
Speaker 1: so clear over and over again. You
have to seek this out with your own curiosity,

482
00:34:51,716 --> 00:34:55,316
Speaker 1: your own desire to do it firsthand.
You have to struggle through it. You have to get

483
00:34:55,376 --> 00:34:58,976
Speaker 1: shattered over and over again, and
put your world back together, and you have to

484
00:34:59,036 --> 00:35:03,116
Speaker 1: keep coming back for more, and then
this whole world opens up to you.

485
00:35:03,716 --> 00:35:03,776
Speaker 2: Mm.

486
00:35:03,936 --> 00:35:09,476
Speaker 1: Um, and yeah, you don't have to start
with UFOs. A- any... It's really a curiosity

487
00:35:09,516 --> 00:35:14,976
Speaker 1: and a drive and openness, uh, to
eventually accept what you have

488
00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:19,956
Speaker 1: experienced and to make meaning of
it, and then it will keep happening. That's what

489
00:35:19,996 --> 00:35:25,996
Speaker 1: happened to me. So you described a
sort of chakra experience. I'm, wasn't steeped

490
00:35:26,036 --> 00:35:30,836
Speaker 1: in this world. Like, I didn't know
what that was. Uh, I started to have

491
00:35:31,556 --> 00:35:37,376
Speaker 1: experiences like that late 2024. I
was doing a

492
00:35:37,416 --> 00:35:43,276
Speaker 1: meditation. It was a long one. It
went about two hours, and I was seeing, like,

493
00:35:43,536 --> 00:35:49,376
Speaker 1: visuals. Like, it looked like music
visuals, like, uh, uh, visualizations you might

494
00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:53,936
Speaker 1: expect, looking through, like,
tunnels of various geometric colored shapes. I
was

495
00:35:54,016 --> 00:35:57,556
Speaker 1: seeing it in my visual field with my
eyes closed. Like, it was there. It wasn't

496
00:35:57,616 --> 00:36:02,856
Speaker 1: super bright, but I could see it.
There was all sorts of symbols. And then I felt
a

497
00:36:03,076 --> 00:36:08,156
Speaker 1: burning sensation in my chest, like
it was a bonfire in there. And when I was done,

498
00:36:08,216 --> 00:36:12,636
Speaker 1: and it was still going, and then I
was starting to get worried. Like, after I was

499
00:36:12,696 --> 00:36:18,636
Speaker 1: feeling better than I'd ever felt
before. Uh, but at the same time, um, I was

500
00:36:18,696 --> 00:36:22,896
Speaker 1: like, "Why is there, like, literal
fire and heat in my chest? Like, what is

501
00:36:22,936 --> 00:36:27,584
Speaker 1: happening?" And so I had to go learn
about these things afterward. But for me, that

502
00:36:27,624 --> 00:36:31,504
Speaker 1: was also very validating because it's
not like I imagined it. I didn't know what

503
00:36:31,544 --> 00:36:36,584
Speaker 1: this was. I had no idea what I was
experiencing. It was just happening to me. Like,

504
00:36:36,644 --> 00:36:40,944
Speaker 1: I just stumbled into it. And so I had
to make sense of events like that. Like, "Oh,

505
00:36:41,004 --> 00:36:46,004
Speaker 1: okay. I guess inner... this energy
stuff is a thing. I always thought it was made
up

506
00:36:46,024 --> 00:36:46,484
Speaker 1: and stupid."

507
00:36:46,844 --> 00:36:46,904
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

508
00:36:46,964 --> 00:36:52,644
Speaker 1: Uh, but, uh, I am absolutely feeling
this and various other things. Like, this is

509
00:36:52,704 --> 00:36:57,204
Speaker 1: definitely happening. Like
somatically, I can feel it. This isn't just
imagination.

510
00:36:57,244 --> 00:37:00,944
Speaker 1: Like, this is bordering on pain, it's
so strong.

511
00:37:01,224 --> 00:37:01,225
Speaker 2: Mm.

512
00:37:01,244 --> 00:37:05,744
Speaker 1: Like, I... [chuckles] Okay,
something's going on. I gotta go figure this
out, which

513
00:37:05,784 --> 00:37:10,204
Speaker 1: of course leads to the next domino,
right? The... And these events just keep

514
00:37:10,224 --> 00:37:16,164
Speaker 1: happening. I'm waking up in the
middle of the night. I'm having profoundly vivid
and

515
00:37:16,244 --> 00:37:20,604
Speaker 1: strange dreams. I'm waking up in the
middle of conversations. I didn't get the first

516
00:37:20,644 --> 00:37:24,604
Speaker 1: part of the conversation, but I see
myself talking. Or I'm waking up, like, in a

517
00:37:24,664 --> 00:37:29,284
Speaker 1: liminal state, and my thoughts are
going. I'm well aware of, like, my thoughts are

518
00:37:29,344 --> 00:37:33,824
Speaker 1: not always my own. Some are more
mine, less mine. It's like a spectrum. And I'm

519
00:37:33,884 --> 00:37:38,224
Speaker 1: talking. I'm watching myself talk,
and I'm slowly waking up. I'm like, "Who the
hell

520
00:37:38,264 --> 00:37:41,724
Speaker 1: am I talking to? What is happening?
[chuckles] Who am I talking to?"

521
00:37:42,244 --> 00:37:42,304
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

522
00:37:42,464 --> 00:37:48,144
Speaker 1: These things keep happening. I have
nightmares that feel extremely vivid, and

523
00:37:48,524 --> 00:37:53,304
Speaker 1: there's, like, something there. I
feel this instinctive, like, terror, sense that,

524
00:37:53,684 --> 00:37:58,204
Speaker 1: "Oh, no, that... This is, like,
happening." Like, I'm in a dream, but I'm not
alone

525
00:37:58,224 --> 00:38:03,004
Speaker 1: in my dream. There's some- somebody
or something else in my dream. Or I would wake

526
00:38:03,104 --> 00:38:07,884
Speaker 1: up, and I would feel the sense of a
presence. Or deep in meditation, I started to

527
00:38:07,944 --> 00:38:13,944
Speaker 1: get thoughts that did not feel like
my own. And I can say that because when

528
00:38:13,984 --> 00:38:17,324
Speaker 1: you've been meditating for 45 minutes
and you haven't had a thought in 20 minutes,

529
00:38:17,424 --> 00:38:22,444
Speaker 1: and it is just still as the ocean,
you're just like, "Yeah." [chuckles]

530
00:38:22,524 --> 00:38:22,544
Speaker 2: Mm.

531
00:38:22,624 --> 00:38:27,984
Speaker 1: And then you get a thought like, "Why
do you come in here?" That was one of the ones

532
00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:31,084
Speaker 1: I wrote down. It's from one of the
first verbal thoughts I got. I was like, "Why do

533
00:38:31,104 --> 00:38:34,784
Speaker 1: you come in here?" Like, 'cause I
meditate in a closet. [chuckles] And like, it
was

534
00:38:34,844 --> 00:38:38,884
Speaker 1: loud. That is jarring. When you're
just... You're not trying to make anything

535
00:38:38,924 --> 00:38:41,924
Speaker 1: happen. There's nothing on your mind.
You're just still as the ocean, but just like,

536
00:38:42,364 --> 00:38:45,784
Speaker 1: "Hey, why do you come in here?" What,
what's going on? [chuckles] Where did that

537
00:38:45,844 --> 00:38:47,324
Speaker 1: come from? Um-

538
00:38:47,684 --> 00:38:49,204
Speaker 2: Are you hearing this, like, audibly?

539
00:38:50,364 --> 00:38:56,084
Speaker 1: That one was a verbal thought. I do
get clear audience

540
00:38:56,144 --> 00:38:58,524
Speaker 1: sometimes, which is a sense of sound.

541
00:38:59,064 --> 00:38:59,124
Speaker 2: Mm.

542
00:38:59,164 --> 00:39:02,544
Speaker 1: It doesn't usually have a source, but
it is heard in the same way that you hear

543
00:39:02,604 --> 00:39:06,544
Speaker 1: sounds. It just sounds like it's
coming from everywhere. If you were to play a
sound

544
00:39:06,584 --> 00:39:10,464
Speaker 1: through headphones, and it's the same
in both speakers, it's kinda like that. I do

545
00:39:10,524 --> 00:39:15,164
Speaker 1: get those sometimes. They're not as
common. It's mostly verbal thoughts. But it was

546
00:39:15,224 --> 00:39:21,104
Speaker 1: the out of context nature of the
thought that was like, I absolutely did not make

547
00:39:21,144 --> 00:39:25,724
Speaker 1: that happen. Wherever it comes from,
however you wanna claim the, the cognitive

548
00:39:25,764 --> 00:39:31,524
Speaker 1: science of it, this was directed. It
was inserted into my head, [chuckles] and I

549
00:39:31,564 --> 00:39:37,264
Speaker 1: start to get those. At first, during
meditation, um, and usually it's, like,

550
00:39:37,904 --> 00:39:41,684
Speaker 1: helpful. [chuckles] Um, I went
through my old journals, and, like, I start to
go

551
00:39:41,724 --> 00:39:45,324
Speaker 1: through these. Like, what are they
saying? It's like advice. You cannot give to

552
00:39:45,424 --> 00:39:49,644
Speaker 1: others what you deny yourself, right?
Just hear that thought. I'm staring at a fire.

553
00:39:50,324 --> 00:39:55,424
Speaker 1: I'm, like, super, like, uh,
dissociated. Then I hear, "You are the fire.
You're the

554
00:39:55,484 --> 00:39:59,784
Speaker 1: same thing." [chuckles] Like, just
comes out of nowhere. So that starts to happen.

555
00:40:00,344 --> 00:40:06,304
Speaker 1: And then I start to get out of
context emotions. As in, I'm feeling an emotion
that

556
00:40:06,364 --> 00:40:10,184
Speaker 1: is completely dissimilar to what I'm
doing. I'm just chilling, just, like, walking

557
00:40:10,224 --> 00:40:15,684
Speaker 1: around, doing chores, and I feel,
like, a profound, like, sadness or longing or,

558
00:40:15,764 --> 00:40:20,484
Speaker 1: like, curiosity, and the impression
of, like, a smile or that somebody's watching

559
00:40:20,524 --> 00:40:24,864
Speaker 1: me. It's like, "What the hell is
happening to me?" [chuckles] Where-

560
00:40:24,884 --> 00:40:24,885
Speaker 2: Mm

561
00:40:24,884 --> 00:40:29,924
Speaker 1: ... is this coming from? Like,
there's somebody there. There's nobody
physically

562
00:40:29,964 --> 00:40:35,804
Speaker 1: present, right? And so that starts to
happen more, uh, and more. And,

563
00:40:35,864 --> 00:40:40,903
Speaker 1: um, I have to start taking it
seriously because, I mean, it's scary.

564
00:40:40,963 --> 00:40:46,384
Speaker 1: [chuckles] I don't know what else to
put that. Like, it's, um, it's frightening, uh,

565
00:40:46,464 --> 00:40:50,944
Speaker 1: because I have no model for this. I
don't come from any sort of background. None of

566
00:40:50,964 --> 00:40:54,484
Speaker 1: my friends talk about this, none of
my family. This is not normal. I've got some

567
00:40:55,424 --> 00:41:01,204
Speaker 1: pretty, like, watered down, uh,
modern Christian, like, parents. But for the
most

568
00:41:01,264 --> 00:41:04,984
Speaker 1: part, [chuckles] they don't even go
to church. Like, uh, I have no grounding. I have

569
00:41:05,064 --> 00:41:10,064
Speaker 1: no idea what's happening to me. Uh,
and that's the, the sort of stage I'm in. I

570
00:41:10,064 --> 00:41:13,664
Speaker 1: don't know, starting a year or so
ago, I guess, is when this starts to happen. But

571
00:41:13,784 --> 00:41:18,264
Speaker 1: I, I'm pushing it away, right? I'm
not... This is not good. Like, [chuckles] you

572
00:41:18,344 --> 00:41:23,824
Speaker 1: can't... Everyone talks to
themselves. This is not how talking to myself
feels. And

573
00:41:23,904 --> 00:41:27,924
Speaker 1: I already have a pretty fractured and
chaotic mind on a regular basis, but this is

574
00:41:27,984 --> 00:41:31,984
Speaker 1: new. Right? This is not how I
normally experience things.

575
00:41:33,224 --> 00:41:37,764
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's... I mean, what comes to
mind is, like, how our culture would make

576
00:41:37,824 --> 00:41:43,524
Speaker 2: sense of those experiences would
probably say schizophrenia,

577
00:41:43,884 --> 00:41:48,764
Speaker 2: right? Hearing voices in your head,
seeing things that aren't there, things like

578
00:41:48,824 --> 00:41:54,124
Speaker 2: that, versus there's another way of
understanding it as spiritual emergence,

579
00:41:54,904 --> 00:42:00,404
Speaker 2: the shattering of a paradigm emerging
into a greater reality, a broader

580
00:42:01,064 --> 00:42:05,924
Speaker 2: universe where weird shit happens.
Like, it's like the weirdness, the strangeness-

581
00:42:05,944 --> 00:42:06,004
Speaker 1: Yeah

582
00:42:06,004 --> 00:42:11,064
Speaker 2: ... you know? And, um, I'm curious,
like, how do you remain grounded as all of

583
00:42:11,124 --> 00:42:15,904
Speaker 2: these, uh, anomalous things begin
happening to you? How do you not lose yourself
in

584
00:42:15,944 --> 00:42:16,184
Speaker 2: them?

585
00:42:17,584 --> 00:42:23,144
Speaker 1: I'd struggled profoundly with a
chaotic mind and lack of self-control, uh,
emotional

586
00:42:23,204 --> 00:42:29,036
Speaker 1: instability my entire life. Like,
I'd, I had learned how to Frankly, to not trust

587
00:42:29,096 --> 00:42:33,876
Speaker 1: myself but still rely on myself. I'd
learned that I couldn't, right? I already had

588
00:42:33,916 --> 00:42:38,556
Speaker 1: that humility. Like, I already knew
what it was like to fall apart over and over

589
00:42:38,596 --> 00:42:41,436
Speaker 1: again and put yourself back together
because you gotta go to work next week, right?

590
00:42:41,676 --> 00:42:45,496
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that you have
literally zero motivation for no reason. It
doesn't

591
00:42:45,556 --> 00:42:49,716
Speaker 1: matter that you're incredibly
depressed with no apparent cause. Uh, you gotta
get it

592
00:42:49,736 --> 00:42:52,976
Speaker 1: together, right? You [chuckles] just
gotta get it together. I had already learned,

593
00:42:53,016 --> 00:42:58,496
Speaker 1: like, how to, like, control myself
and a level of humility,

594
00:42:58,776 --> 00:43:03,076
Speaker 1: [chuckles] put it that way. And those
tools really came in- and I'd been meditating

595
00:43:03,096 --> 00:43:07,676
Speaker 1: at this point for years, so I knew
how to sort of take an observer perspective. I

596
00:43:07,756 --> 00:43:12,716
Speaker 1: knew how to step back and to be okay.
So I had these things to fall back on,

597
00:43:13,676 --> 00:43:19,216
Speaker 1: and I really needed every single one
of those tools. And ultimately, I wanted to

598
00:43:19,276 --> 00:43:23,776
Speaker 1: know what was true. And although I've
mentioned some scary things, most of the

599
00:43:23,816 --> 00:43:29,016
Speaker 1: experiences, even now and especially
now, more so, were very loving and, like,

600
00:43:30,076 --> 00:43:35,796
Speaker 1: strange, but not bad, right?
[chuckles] And so it's not like

601
00:43:36,676 --> 00:43:40,896
Speaker 1: it was getting worse, like it was a,
like a haunting movie or like, [chuckles] you

602
00:43:40,996 --> 00:43:46,096
Speaker 1: know? Where things just continue to
get worse. Um, it was getting magnified, but it

603
00:43:46,136 --> 00:43:51,816
Speaker 1: wasn't bad. And, and so that, that
helped a lot as well. And I wanted to know.

604
00:43:52,076 --> 00:43:57,336
Speaker 1: Ultimately, I couldn't rest because
I, I needed to know. And of course, I ruled

605
00:43:57,396 --> 00:44:02,676
Speaker 1: everything out. You know, I, I seek
psychiatric help. I, I obsessively research on

606
00:44:02,716 --> 00:44:06,816
Speaker 1: my own. It doesn't fit any of these
models. Like, I go through it. I'm reading

607
00:44:06,856 --> 00:44:08,476
Speaker 1: books. Like, [chuckles] I'm doing
everything.

608
00:44:08,776 --> 00:44:08,896
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

609
00:44:08,916 --> 00:44:12,956
Speaker 1: And I'm being honest because I want
it... At this point, I'm like, "I would love for

610
00:44:12,996 --> 00:44:16,796
Speaker 1: this to be insanity. That would be
great." [chuckles] That would be way easier.
Give

611
00:44:16,836 --> 00:44:18,036
Speaker 1: me the label, so I'm all for it.

612
00:44:18,396 --> 00:44:18,496
Speaker 2: Mm.

613
00:44:18,556 --> 00:44:22,216
Speaker 1: But none of them fit, and no one
would diagnose me with that because it didn't
fit.

614
00:44:22,716 --> 00:44:26,376
Speaker 1: It's like, "You're good." Like,
"Dude, just don't worry about it." Like, "Pursue

615
00:44:26,436 --> 00:44:30,596
Speaker 1: this." Uh, a very enlightened
psychiatrist is like, "The worst thing you could
do is

616
00:44:30,636 --> 00:44:31,996
Speaker 1: suppress this. You need to go-

617
00:44:32,996 --> 00:44:32,997
Speaker 2: Mm.

618
00:44:32,996 --> 00:44:35,396
Speaker 1: "You need to go see this through and
check it out. And as long as you're not hurting

619
00:44:35,436 --> 00:44:39,176
Speaker 1: anyone or you don't feel like you're
in any danger or, like, you can function,

620
00:44:39,396 --> 00:44:44,976
Speaker 1: you're... And it feels good and not
bad, go. Like, go explore this. You need to find

621
00:44:45,016 --> 00:44:48,436
Speaker 1: out who you are and what's happening
to you. I'm not here to tell you what's not

622
00:44:48,476 --> 00:44:52,856
Speaker 1: true. I'm here to tell you that
you're not crazy in the ways that we have
learned to

623
00:44:52,936 --> 00:44:57,156
Speaker 1: call, like, DSM-5 labels. You don't
have any of these, or to the degree you do,

624
00:44:57,316 --> 00:45:01,276
Speaker 1: you're not dysfunctional. It's not
that. I'm not here to tell you what's true. You

625
00:45:01,296 --> 00:45:04,716
Speaker 1: go figure that out on your own."
[chuckles] Like, oh, cool. Pretty good

626
00:45:04,756 --> 00:45:10,516
Speaker 1: psychiatrist. Um, so I do. And I
start learning other

627
00:45:10,576 --> 00:45:16,476
Speaker 1: skills, um, like telekinesis. Uh, you
can move things around, and

628
00:45:16,536 --> 00:45:20,336
Speaker 1: that profoundly changes [chuckles]
your whole world when you learn how to do that.

629
00:45:20,396 --> 00:45:24,656
Speaker 1: It took me a long time. I stared at a
piece of tinfoil sitting on a needle, commonly

630
00:45:24,696 --> 00:45:29,356
Speaker 1: called a psi wheel, and it has very
little friction, so it spins very easily. It's

631
00:45:29,376 --> 00:45:32,576
Speaker 1: just a piece of little tent of
aluminum foil over a needle stuck into, like, a

632
00:45:32,676 --> 00:45:33,536
Speaker 1: sponge or eraser.

633
00:45:34,036 --> 00:45:34,176
Speaker 2: Hmm.

634
00:45:34,296 --> 00:45:37,656
Speaker 1: It's got very little friction. That
thing will turn easily. Basically a pinwheel.

635
00:45:38,176 --> 00:45:42,636
Speaker 1: And, um, you can use that to train,
right? The goal is to move. [chuckles] Just

636
00:45:43,416 --> 00:45:47,256
Speaker 1: however you do it. I stared at that
thing for 30 hours. Like, I read a book on

637
00:45:47,296 --> 00:45:51,316
Speaker 1: telekinesis. I'm like, I was on board
for an idealistic universe at this point.

638
00:45:51,376 --> 00:45:55,476
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, what else could explain
all this crazy stuff? And, um-

639
00:45:55,916 --> 00:45:59,076
Speaker 2: Could you pause just for a second and
explain what idealistic universe means?

640
00:45:59,076 --> 00:46:04,896
Speaker 1: [chuckles] Sure. Uh, that, um, matter
is not fundamental.

641
00:46:05,176 --> 00:46:10,756
Speaker 1: It is ideas and non-physical
concepts, energy, consciousness is fundamental.

642
00:46:11,316 --> 00:46:16,216
Speaker 1: It is consciousness and the things in
its contents. Doesn't mean there's not rules,

643
00:46:16,716 --> 00:46:21,916
Speaker 1: uh, but that nothing is off-limits,
basically. It's imagination, right? There is no

644
00:46:21,956 --> 00:46:26,996
Speaker 1: real line between imagination and
material reality. It's mostly a matter of
patience

645
00:46:27,036 --> 00:46:29,956
Speaker 1: and preference. But eventually, those
two always converge.

646
00:46:30,296 --> 00:46:30,596
Speaker 2: Hmm.

647
00:46:30,676 --> 00:46:35,876
Speaker 1: Uh, it's more like a spectrum. Uh, so
you have to take my word for it for now, but

648
00:46:35,936 --> 00:46:41,476
Speaker 1: that's my view of reality. But yeah,
once you've... After about 30 hours, I got that

649
00:46:41,516 --> 00:46:47,036
Speaker 1: thing to move without touching it,
and, um, I recorded it, and I cried because I...

650
00:46:47,296 --> 00:46:51,836
Speaker 1: You know, it was so validating,
right? You can have these crazy experiences, but
it

651
00:46:51,876 --> 00:46:55,576
Speaker 1: wasn't you doing it, right? It felt
like things that were happening to me. This was,

652
00:46:55,616 --> 00:46:59,396
Speaker 1: like, the first time that, like, "Oh,
I can use this." Like, this is not only real,

653
00:46:59,476 --> 00:47:03,756
Speaker 1: but, like, I can do something. I'm
not just a helpless victim. Like, I can

654
00:47:03,796 --> 00:47:09,156
Speaker 1: participate. Uh, this is, I can do
stuff. So I got better at that, and I start to

655
00:47:09,176 --> 00:47:13,196
Speaker 1: get into remote viewing, and I start
to use that as a way of exploring reality as

656
00:47:13,236 --> 00:47:18,236
Speaker 1: well. And I've been practicing that
almost daily for more than a year now. And then

657
00:47:18,356 --> 00:47:22,576
Speaker 1: I, as you well know, I learned other
skills. I go, I start learning about these

658
00:47:22,616 --> 00:47:25,876
Speaker 1: things like, "Well, that's probably
true, so let's go find out." Sure enough, it is.

659
00:47:25,976 --> 00:47:31,176
Speaker 1: Cool. So I go learn mindsight, the
ability to see without eyes. I can do that. The

660
00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:34,276
Speaker 1: viewers will have to take my word for
it. I don't mind demoing it if you want me to,

661
00:47:34,356 --> 00:47:39,076
Speaker 1: but, um, that's not really the point.
You can do this stuff. And I began to take

662
00:47:39,116 --> 00:47:44,016
Speaker 1: very seriously its intention. It's
all just intention and energy and consciousness.

663
00:47:44,656 --> 00:47:47,996
Speaker 1: Yes, there are rules, and there's a
lot of us on this rock, and of course, there are

664
00:47:48,056 --> 00:47:52,596
Speaker 1: structures and patterns and friction.
There are sort of metaphysical rules, but all

665
00:47:52,636 --> 00:47:57,836
Speaker 1: of them are soft rules. Nothing is
fundamental. It's all just like, um, has inertia

666
00:47:57,876 --> 00:48:02,976
Speaker 1: to it. But ultimately, if you will
hard enough, like, you can change the rules. Um,

667
00:48:03,916 --> 00:48:07,476
Speaker 1: otherwise, senses like mindsight
don't make sense. You can't see without
eyeballs.

668
00:48:07,536 --> 00:48:11,476
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. I can close my
eyes, put on a blindfold, and see like I have

669
00:48:11,516 --> 00:48:16,836
Speaker 1: eyes. And that, once you can do that,
your whole world changes. As I do these

670
00:48:16,876 --> 00:48:21,076
Speaker 1: things, it's like stairsteps. The
experiences that are coming back to me, it's
like

671
00:48:21,156 --> 00:48:25,656
Speaker 1: I have a doorbell and a mailbox now
and a front door, and I have a c- a cell phone

672
00:48:25,696 --> 00:48:29,756
Speaker 1: for the first time into the spiritual
world, and they're like, "Hey, what's up? Hey,

673
00:48:29,836 --> 00:48:33,676
Speaker 1: you can talk now. You can see things.
You can touch things. You can interact. What's

674
00:48:33,736 --> 00:48:38,464
Speaker 1: up, man? You wanna, you wanna talk?"
And that starts to scare the hell out of me as,

675
00:48:38,564 --> 00:48:42,384
Speaker 1: uh, I guess that's really sort of the
next leg of the journey is not only can I do

676
00:48:42,424 --> 00:48:48,124
Speaker 1: things, and I kind of understand some
of how reality works, now it's reaching back

677
00:48:48,204 --> 00:48:48,524
Speaker 1: to me.

678
00:48:49,024 --> 00:48:49,104
Speaker 2: Mm.

679
00:48:49,264 --> 00:48:54,224
Speaker 1: "Hey, [chuckles] what's up? Looks
like you kinda see what's going on now. You
wanna

680
00:48:54,264 --> 00:48:58,364
Speaker 1: talk?" And, um, that's more or less
the stage I'm in now.

681
00:49:00,564 --> 00:49:06,404
Speaker 2: I met you in this class last fall,
and, uh, during the class, you went

682
00:49:06,504 --> 00:49:12,244
Speaker 2: on this Mindsight training, and you
were giving updates in the class feed about,

683
00:49:13,044 --> 00:49:18,844
Speaker 2: uh, the training and then afterwards.
Um, I just, I just, like, love

684
00:49:19,724 --> 00:49:25,644
Speaker 2: hearing about your willingness and
your capacity to explore and,

685
00:49:25,704 --> 00:49:31,144
Speaker 2: like, the focus you bring into all of
these ways that you've learned to train your

686
00:49:31,204 --> 00:49:36,684
Speaker 2: mind, your consciousness, um, and
just your, yeah, your openness to, like, try it,

687
00:49:36,864 --> 00:49:39,724
Speaker 2: you know? Like, uh, [chuckles] to...
You like feel like, "Well, let's see if

688
00:49:39,763 --> 00:49:44,784
Speaker 2: telekinesis is real. I'm gonna invest
30 hours in trying," you know? [chuckles] And

689
00:49:44,824 --> 00:49:49,084
Speaker 2: how amazing that finally you got that
little piece of aluminum foil to move.

690
00:49:49,544 --> 00:49:50,524
Speaker 1: Yeah. [chuckles]

691
00:49:50,564 --> 00:49:55,904
Speaker 2: And I've s- I, I, I don't have a...
I'm, I'm not gonna share a video, but I've seen

692
00:49:55,984 --> 00:50:01,904
Speaker 2: Steven do a, um, demo of his
Mindsight's, uh, abilities,

693
00:50:02,004 --> 00:50:06,504
Speaker 2: and pretty, pretty incredible to see
it firsthand. Like, I've heard about people

694
00:50:06,544 --> 00:50:10,404
Speaker 2: having these skills, and Steven's
told me himself about that, but... Or you've
told

695
00:50:10,444 --> 00:50:15,584
Speaker 2: me yourself about that. But when I
saw it firsthand, it did something to me.

696
00:50:16,644 --> 00:50:17,464
Speaker 1: It's real, man.

697
00:50:17,664 --> 00:50:17,864
Speaker 2: Yeah.

698
00:50:17,884 --> 00:50:21,244
Speaker 1: Just imagine how it feels doing it.
You don't have to. Like, you can do it. Anyone

699
00:50:21,284 --> 00:50:25,904
Speaker 1: can do it. Like, that's... This story
is not really my story so much it is, it's a

700
00:50:25,964 --> 00:50:30,784
Speaker 1: template. You know? It's a blueprint
for one way to do all this yourself. Like, it's

701
00:50:30,824 --> 00:50:35,984
Speaker 1: not unique to me. Anyone can do it. I
just was obsessively curious, and I had to

702
00:50:36,024 --> 00:50:40,184
Speaker 1: make sense of my world, and it kept
not making sense. And [chuckles] I kept having

703
00:50:40,264 --> 00:50:45,264
Speaker 1: to figuring it out, and I was... More
things kept being true, and I didn't like it.

704
00:50:45,524 --> 00:50:45,525
Speaker 2: Yeah.

705
00:50:45,604 --> 00:50:49,904
Speaker 1: A lot of this, it sounds very happy,
this journey, but this was really an obsessive-

706
00:50:51,204 --> 00:50:51,205
Speaker 2: Mm.

707
00:50:51,284 --> 00:50:56,584
Speaker 1: I had the sort of meditation, yoga
practices to fall back on. Like, I'm

708
00:50:57,024 --> 00:51:01,784
Speaker 1: unconditionally okay, but sometimes
only barely. Like, my whole world doesn't make

709
00:51:01,844 --> 00:51:03,244
Speaker 1: sense anymore. Like, I don't-

710
00:51:03,364 --> 00:51:03,604
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

711
00:51:03,604 --> 00:51:07,324
Speaker 1: ... know what to do with this. I
keep... [chuckles] I go, "How do I walk around

712
00:51:07,444 --> 00:51:08,284
Speaker 1: after realizing

713
00:51:09,804 --> 00:51:14,284
Speaker 1: stuff's all made up, man?" Like, this
is... I mean, it's real, but this is just a

714
00:51:14,324 --> 00:51:19,644
Speaker 1: projection. Like, this is... I'm not
this body. I'm not this person. Just sort of a

715
00:51:19,724 --> 00:51:24,124
Speaker 1: field of consciousness. We all are.
It's, we're kinda making a lot of this stuff up,

716
00:51:24,284 --> 00:51:28,844
Speaker 1: stuff up as we go. None of these
things are fundamentally real, but I know. I can

717
00:51:28,924 --> 00:51:32,124
Speaker 1: just close my eyes and, and know.
[chuckles]

718
00:51:32,164 --> 00:51:32,165
Speaker 2: Mm.

719
00:51:32,204 --> 00:51:37,444
Speaker 1: Okay. [chuckles] Yeah, that's still a
thing. Uh, cool. I can still... I was able to

720
00:51:37,504 --> 00:51:40,984
Speaker 1: see out both the back of my head for
a little while. I stopped training that one

721
00:51:41,044 --> 00:51:42,264
Speaker 1: because it's very distracting.

722
00:51:42,284 --> 00:51:45,944
Speaker 2: I like when you were telling me,
telling our group about, um, zooming in on the
sun.

723
00:51:46,284 --> 00:51:46,924
Speaker 2: You wanna share that story?

724
00:51:46,964 --> 00:51:47,284
Speaker 1: Yeah.

725
00:51:47,584 --> 00:51:48,444
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

726
00:51:48,484 --> 00:51:53,504
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, so that one gets weirder,
but, uh, I'll leave that part out. But I was

727
00:51:53,564 --> 00:51:58,344
Speaker 1: just sitting there. Uh, I wanted to
see... Just having fun. Like, a lot of this is

728
00:51:58,384 --> 00:52:02,204
Speaker 1: play for me now because, yeah, it's
cool. Uh, I'm like, "I wonder what water looks

729
00:52:02,244 --> 00:52:07,124
Speaker 1: like, [chuckles] now if I just close
my eyes." Um, 'cause the cameras sort of come

730
00:52:07,184 --> 00:52:11,704
Speaker 1: out from where my eyes are. Um, but I
s- see through my eyelids as if they're not

731
00:52:11,764 --> 00:52:17,744
Speaker 1: there. And, um, I like, "Oh, I'll
just pour water on my face." And I was laughing

732
00:52:17,824 --> 00:52:22,244
Speaker 1: 'cause it was so cool. Normally,
water isn't in focus 'cause it's on your eyes.
And

733
00:52:22,284 --> 00:52:24,764
Speaker 1: I could see it. It's like you're
pouring water on the other side of a piece of

734
00:52:24,804 --> 00:52:25,844
Speaker 1: glass. That's what it looks like.

735
00:52:25,864 --> 00:52:25,904
Speaker 2: Huh.

736
00:52:25,904 --> 00:52:27,444
Speaker 1: And I was laughing. I thought it was
hilarious.

737
00:52:27,844 --> 00:52:27,904
Speaker 2: Wow.

738
00:52:27,924 --> 00:52:30,844
Speaker 1: And I'm like, "What else can I do?"
So I go to sit down and read a book, and I'm

739
00:52:30,884 --> 00:52:34,804
Speaker 1: like, "Oh, I'll read this book
without my eyeballs." Um, so I start doing it,
and

740
00:52:34,804 --> 00:52:40,624
Speaker 1: I'm like, the sun is in my eyes. My
fake eyes. [chuckles] Like, it's still bright by

741
00:52:40,664 --> 00:52:44,284
Speaker 1: contrast. Like, it's funny how much
carries over. Like, you're still using parts of

742
00:52:44,324 --> 00:52:48,384
Speaker 1: your brain's visual system, of
course. I don't know how it gets there. I don't
know.

743
00:52:48,424 --> 00:52:53,544
Speaker 1: Don't ask me. It just does. Um, it's
too bright by contrast. It's really hard to

744
00:52:53,583 --> 00:52:56,984
Speaker 1: read the book. I'm like, "What is
this?" Like, coming in through the window on my

745
00:52:57,044 --> 00:53:02,804
Speaker 1: couch. And I'm like, "But you know
what? I can just look at the sun. [chuckles] Why

746
00:53:02,824 --> 00:53:07,004
Speaker 1: have I never thought of this?" So I
do. I, I stare at the sun, and I can start to

747
00:53:07,064 --> 00:53:07,304
Speaker 1: see sunspots.

748
00:53:07,364 --> 00:53:08,744
Speaker 2: With your eyes closed. You stare at
the sun with your eyes-

749
00:53:08,744 --> 00:53:09,604
Speaker 1: Eyes cl- yeah. Don't ever-

750
00:53:09,704 --> 00:53:10,004
Speaker 2: Yes

751
00:53:10,024 --> 00:53:11,264
Speaker 1: ... uh, don't do it with your eyes
open.

752
00:53:11,284 --> 00:53:11,304
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

753
00:53:11,324 --> 00:53:13,024
Speaker 1: You'll fry your eyeballs. Um, like-

754
00:53:13,044 --> 00:53:15,924
Speaker 2: Don't stare at the sun unless you
have Mindsight, guys. [chuckles]

755
00:53:16,004 --> 00:53:17,744
Speaker 1: Or, or those special glasses or
whatever, right?

756
00:53:17,764 --> 00:53:18,104
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Yeah.

757
00:53:19,064 --> 00:53:22,704
Speaker 1: But I'm like, "Holy crap, I'm looking
at the sun. Like, look, I can see the little

758
00:53:22,744 --> 00:53:23,744
Speaker 1: tiny sunspots on it."

759
00:53:23,804 --> 00:53:23,805
Speaker 2: Mm.

760
00:53:23,824 --> 00:53:28,284
Speaker 1: Like, this is so cool. And like, I
wonder if I can zoom in on the sun. So I do
this,

761
00:53:28,524 --> 00:53:33,344
Speaker 1: and as I'm doing it, I get, like,
this parallax, like second image, like kind of

762
00:53:33,384 --> 00:53:37,984
Speaker 1: like a lens flare over the first
image. I'm like, "Ah, what is this thing?" I
start

763
00:53:38,064 --> 00:53:42,024
Speaker 1: panning around, and I can see, like,
little black spots, and I can move to the edge,

764
00:53:42,084 --> 00:53:46,204
Speaker 1: and it looks like it's a ball with,
like, fire at the edge of it. And I'm like,

765
00:53:46,784 --> 00:53:52,544
Speaker 1: "Holy crap. Am I, like, [chuckles]
staring at the sun, man? What's going on?"

766
00:53:53,104 --> 00:53:59,004
Speaker 1: And like, it's just intention. Um,
was I? I, I don't know. I

767
00:53:59,064 --> 00:54:04,044
Speaker 1: don't... I couldn't tell you, but
it's, I have an openness to exploring it. Um, it

768
00:54:04,124 --> 00:54:08,904
Speaker 1: correlates, uh, [chuckles] with the
sun. I mean, how much crazier is it to say you

769
00:54:08,944 --> 00:54:12,424
Speaker 1: can't zoom in? It's already not real
photons. Well, it- it's already not hitting

770
00:54:12,464 --> 00:54:14,144
Speaker 1: your eyes and turning into
electrical-

771
00:54:14,324 --> 00:54:14,464
Speaker 2: Right

772
00:54:14,464 --> 00:54:18,184
Speaker 1: ... chemical signals. Why not? How is
it crazier to say you can't zoom in? Like,

773
00:54:18,284 --> 00:54:18,484
Speaker 1: that's-

774
00:54:18,524 --> 00:54:18,784
Speaker 2: Yeah.

775
00:54:18,784 --> 00:54:20,964
Speaker 1: [chuckles] We're already
categorically insane. You may as well explore.

776
00:54:21,004 --> 00:54:24,204
Speaker 2: The other crazy thing I thought when
you told me that story was that then you pulled

777
00:54:24,244 --> 00:54:26,844
Speaker 2: up the image of the sun 'cause you
had made a drawing.

778
00:54:27,564 --> 00:54:30,624
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I, I tried to draw where
the sunspots were, and it correlated-

779
00:54:30,724 --> 00:54:30,725
Speaker 2: Right

780
00:54:30,724 --> 00:54:34,664
Speaker 1: ... with the solar activity, uh, on
that day at that time from my location in the

781
00:54:34,724 --> 00:54:40,444
Speaker 1: world. Uh, I will say that since
then, um, I, I think I'm also

782
00:54:40,484 --> 00:54:46,288
Speaker 1: looking at artifacts in my cornea.
It's very con- this... There's no

783
00:54:46,348 --> 00:54:49,668
Speaker 1: instruction manual for this. Like
[chuckles] the, the number of people that can do

784
00:54:49,688 --> 00:54:53,548
Speaker 1: real-time mindsight is still only in
the hundreds for the world. Uh, maybe a little

785
00:54:53,608 --> 00:54:58,208
Speaker 1: above a thousand now. It's growing.
Uh, but we need people to explore this. Nobody

786
00:54:58,248 --> 00:55:02,568
Speaker 1: knows how it works or what it means.
Um, so was I? I don't know. Was I looking at my

787
00:55:02,668 --> 00:55:07,968
Speaker 1: own, like, parts of my eye? I can see
my own eyelashes. I learned that two days ago.

788
00:55:08,028 --> 00:55:10,608
Speaker 1: I'm like, "What are these, like,
bright lines coming out of everything when I
look

789
00:55:10,628 --> 00:55:13,828
Speaker 1: at them?" And it took me forever. I'd
never been able to figure it out. And I

790
00:55:14,188 --> 00:55:17,648
Speaker 1: touched my eyelashes, and then I saw
them move, and I just started laughing.

791
00:55:17,648 --> 00:55:17,848
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

792
00:55:17,868 --> 00:55:21,828
Speaker 1: Like, I'm staring at my own
eyelashes. Like, you don't normally get to do
that. So

793
00:55:22,348 --> 00:55:26,468
Speaker 1: was it something more mundane? How's
that mundane? I don't know. [chuckles]

794
00:55:26,528 --> 00:55:29,288
Speaker 2: What happens when you go to sleep?
Can you turn it off?

795
00:55:30,568 --> 00:55:33,928
Speaker 1: I can just turn it on by intention,
so I can, I can already see. Or I'll tap the

796
00:55:33,968 --> 00:55:38,248
Speaker 1: side of my head to signal that I want
to turn it on. It's just a trained thing. Um,

797
00:55:38,388 --> 00:55:43,448
Speaker 1: and then when I wanna turn it off, I
just do like this. But yeah, sometimes it, it

798
00:55:43,508 --> 00:55:45,808
Speaker 1: will turn on with my eyes closed.

799
00:55:46,288 --> 00:55:46,408
Speaker 2: Yeah.

800
00:55:46,608 --> 00:55:51,488
Speaker 1: Most people train with an eye- with a
blindfold because they don't want the, the cue

801
00:55:51,548 --> 00:55:53,148
Speaker 1: to close their eyes and see through
their eyelids-

802
00:55:53,208 --> 00:55:53,248
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

803
00:55:53,248 --> 00:55:58,348
Speaker 1: ... 'cause that freaks them out. But
I'm lazy and adventurous, so [chuckles] this

804
00:55:58,408 --> 00:56:01,948
Speaker 1: is, this is how I choose to do it.
But yeah, sometimes it does turn on at night, or

805
00:56:01,988 --> 00:56:02,208
Speaker 1: I'll wake up in the middle of the
night.

806
00:56:02,308 --> 00:56:05,408
Speaker 2: God, I feel like we're living in a
sci-fi novel right now. [chuckles]

807
00:56:05,488 --> 00:56:09,088
Speaker 1: You're telling me, buddy. We didn't
even get to the craziest parts. [chuckles]

808
00:56:09,128 --> 00:56:12,688
Speaker 2: Oh, man. Well, you've talked, shared
about, like, this relationship you've

809
00:56:12,748 --> 00:56:18,008
Speaker 2: cultivated with your double. You
wanna say something about that?

810
00:56:19,148 --> 00:56:22,368
Speaker 2: Or where, where do you feel like the
next, the next place you wanna go on your

811
00:56:22,428 --> 00:56:22,708
Speaker 2: story?

812
00:56:24,428 --> 00:56:28,028
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll go to the
next events, which are probably starting

813
00:56:28,108 --> 00:56:32,168
Speaker 1: November, December last year. Uh,
maybe a little before that. When we're in the

814
00:56:32,228 --> 00:56:35,888
Speaker 1: Techniques of Transcendence course,
um, Darren King, you and I are in that course,

815
00:56:36,348 --> 00:56:40,088
Speaker 1: things really start to pick up,
especially the telepathy, and it feels very

816
00:56:40,128 --> 00:56:44,788
Speaker 1: intrusive. Like, I am getting
thoughts and feelings that are not mine. They
are,

817
00:56:44,908 --> 00:56:48,948
Speaker 1: [chuckles] they are... They don't
make any sense. They're completely out of step,

818
00:56:49,408 --> 00:56:55,408
Speaker 1: and it's a person. Uh, and later I'll
discover it's more than one. You know,

819
00:56:55,548 --> 00:56:58,288
Speaker 1: just take me at my word. This is what
I experienced. I'm not telling anyone what,

820
00:56:58,328 --> 00:57:02,188
Speaker 1: what is true, but this is what's
happening to me, right? Uh, so it doesn't stop.
I

821
00:57:02,248 --> 00:57:06,088
Speaker 1: can't rule it out. I can't make it
stop. Like, normally you can make your thoughts

822
00:57:06,128 --> 00:57:10,928
Speaker 1: stop. I know how to meditate. Nothing
stops it. Like, it's just... [chuckles] And

823
00:57:10,988 --> 00:57:15,448
Speaker 1: the more, uh, this goes, it starts to
pick up, especially as I start to do, uh, a

824
00:57:15,488 --> 00:57:19,968
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff in that course. Uh,
which is again, mostly personal development,

825
00:57:20,028 --> 00:57:24,028
Speaker 1: removing distortions, trying to see
the world as it is, letting go of judgment. It

826
00:57:24,048 --> 00:57:29,528
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like those things should
give you more extrasensory perception, uh, but

827
00:57:29,568 --> 00:57:34,488
Speaker 1: it does. Uh, that is what gives you
[chuckles] extrasensory perception. Um, they're

828
00:57:34,528 --> 00:57:39,188
Speaker 1: the same thing somehow. They're tied
together. And the desire to know, right? You

829
00:57:39,248 --> 00:57:43,048
Speaker 1: have to be curious and want to know
on some level, which I did. So these things

830
00:57:43,088 --> 00:57:47,548
Speaker 1: start reaching into my life or
people, right? Um, and I don't know what to do
with

831
00:57:47,588 --> 00:57:52,708
Speaker 1: it. It's waking state, or I'll wake
up, uh, in the middle of the night, um, in the

832
00:57:52,748 --> 00:57:56,708
Speaker 1: middle of a conversation, or I'm
having a dream, and it starts... I realize I'm,
I

833
00:57:56,728 --> 00:58:00,348
Speaker 1: become lucid, and it's like a quiz.
Somebody's grilling me with questions. "What

834
00:58:00,368 --> 00:58:03,868
Speaker 1: does that mean to you?" Like, they're
training my discernment. "Why did that scare

835
00:58:03,968 --> 00:58:07,428
Speaker 1: you? What did you think about that?
How do you know?" And then I go, "Wait, what the

836
00:58:07,468 --> 00:58:11,488
Speaker 1: hell? Who are you?" Like, I had
been... Like, I was being puppeted, like,
through

837
00:58:11,548 --> 00:58:16,468
Speaker 1: conversa- or it's just like sort of,
like, in a malleable state until I became

838
00:58:16,528 --> 00:58:20,348
Speaker 1: lucid, and then I start to panic. And
then it's like I can feel the emotion, like an

839
00:58:20,408 --> 00:58:23,768
Speaker 1: eye roll, like, "Ah, guess he's
awake. All right. Ugh. Party's over. All right,

840
00:58:23,808 --> 00:58:27,328
Speaker 1: everyone go home." That happens. It
keeps happening. And I'm like, [chuckles] "Wait,

841
00:58:28,108 --> 00:58:31,908
Speaker 1: where, who are you? What's going on?"
And then it's in waking state, not just

842
00:58:31,948 --> 00:58:35,948
Speaker 1: meditative state. Traditionally, it's
like when my mind is wandering. I'm going for

843
00:58:35,988 --> 00:58:40,548
Speaker 1: a run. I'm doing chores. Sitting in
the hammock. "Hey, what's up?"

844
00:58:41,468 --> 00:58:46,848
Speaker 1: [chuckles] So stuff like that. And
I'm like... Or I feel a strong emotion, and
it's,

845
00:58:46,888 --> 00:58:52,828
Speaker 1: like, completely out of tune with
what I am. It's somebody, like, wants to reach
out

846
00:58:52,888 --> 00:58:57,288
Speaker 1: to me, or they wanna talk to me, and
I keep pushing them away. Like, naturally as

847
00:58:57,348 --> 00:59:02,267
Speaker 1: somebody [chuckles] I'm worried I'm
going crazy. Um, and I can't figure out what's

848
00:59:02,308 --> 00:59:06,508
Speaker 1: wrong with me. I'm treating it that
way. And every time I push them away, it

849
00:59:06,568 --> 00:59:11,208
Speaker 1: makes... I feel this intense, like,
sadness, like a betrayal, like, uh, they're

850
00:59:11,248 --> 00:59:16,408
Speaker 1: hurt. Like, they feel rejected. Uh,
and but I don't feel that way. I'm like, "Ugh,

851
00:59:16,488 --> 00:59:20,048
Speaker 1: go away. What is this? These aren't
real thoughts. You're not real." And then I just

852
00:59:20,108 --> 00:59:25,888
Speaker 1: feel this pain, like, "You jerk." Or,
or just, like, "I feel sad that you've

853
00:59:25,948 --> 00:59:30,308
Speaker 1: pushed me away. Like, I'm trying to
talk to you." And you can only do that so many

854
00:59:30,368 --> 00:59:34,428
Speaker 1: times before you're like, "Man, I
feel like if this is, there's any truth to this,

855
00:59:34,468 --> 00:59:35,608
Speaker 1: like, I feel like the asshole."

856
00:59:36,128 --> 00:59:36,268
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

857
00:59:36,268 --> 00:59:39,748
Speaker 1: [chuckles] Like, I've already
accepted that things are pretty much idealistic.
Like,

858
00:59:40,308 --> 00:59:44,648
Speaker 1: I'm not in my body. I'm something
beyond it. Uh, I couldn't tell you what that was

859
00:59:44,688 --> 00:59:50,028
Speaker 1: at that time. Why not? Why couldn't
there be non-physical things? And of course,

860
00:59:50,088 --> 00:59:52,888
Speaker 1: this is when they would start
reaching out. Like, you've done the groundwork.
You

861
00:59:52,948 --> 00:59:58,048
Speaker 1: have the abilities. You've got enough
world models that, like, I'm not gonna just

862
00:59:58,068 --> 01:00:02,728
Speaker 1: have a psychotic break right away
pushing me to the edge here. So I start to take
it

863
01:00:02,788 --> 01:00:06,808
Speaker 1: seriously, and the more I try to
engage with it... But it's like a pretense. Uh,
I'm

864
01:00:06,848 --> 01:00:10,948
Speaker 1: gonna pretend to have a conversation
in my head. I'll just act like it's just me.

865
01:00:11,148 --> 01:00:17,068
Speaker 1: And the more I do, and the more I
entertain it, the more real it becomes. Um, and

866
01:00:17,848 --> 01:00:22,488
Speaker 1: that's pretty crazy. And then the
experiences at night and meditation, they don't

867
01:00:22,548 --> 01:00:27,768
Speaker 1: stop, uh, as you well know. So these
are, like, a recurring cast of characters.

868
01:00:28,848 --> 01:00:32,928
Speaker 1: And I, I wanna know at some point.
I... A lot of this is intuitive. Like, I just

869
01:00:32,968 --> 01:00:36,748
Speaker 1: have feelings that important things
are happening or what it means. Like, intuition

870
01:00:36,808 --> 01:00:40,788
Speaker 1: is starting to go off the charts
because I'm leaning into it, and I just have a

871
01:00:40,868 --> 01:00:43,308
Speaker 1: feeling that I know these people. I
know them.

872
01:00:43,508 --> 01:00:43,568
Speaker 2: Mm.

873
01:00:43,668 --> 01:00:47,620
Speaker 1: I already have feelings about them,
but I can't remember them. It's very difficult

874
01:00:47,660 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: to describe how jarring that is.
Like, "Oh, yeah, I know who you are." Like, I
could

875
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:55,100
Speaker 1: tell you a whole- exactly how I feel
about you, what our relationship is like. I

876
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: don't have any memories. I don't
have, like, a lot of knowledge. I just have a
felt

877
01:00:58,860 --> 01:01:04,340
Speaker 1: sense of who they are, and it's
familiar. That's very jarring. Um, and then I
start

878
01:01:04,380 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: to have liminal experiences, so
waking up or falling asleep, that are extremely

879
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:13,940
Speaker 1: vivid. So not only do I see symbols
and stuff in the visual field, this is not

880
01:01:13,980 --> 01:01:18,799
Speaker 1: imaginary. I get those, too, the
imaginary field also, the imagined visuals. But

881
01:01:18,839 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: like-

882
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:19,220
Speaker 2: Hmm

883
01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:22,540
Speaker 1: ... close your eyes and, like, if, as
if, like, you could see... You know, stare at

884
01:01:22,580 --> 01:01:25,860
Speaker 1: something, you see an after image,
and it's painted in the blackness. I see stuff

885
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,500
Speaker 1: drawn like that. Sometimes the
visuals snap into perfect clarity. I don't know
how

886
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: to do that consciously, but it, that
started happening, too. [chuckles] And mostly

887
01:01:35,100 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: symbolic stuff. Um, I realize, you
know, we can communicate, but I'm in this weird

888
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: state where I don't know what the
hell is happening to me. I'm falling apart

889
01:01:43,660 --> 01:01:49,260
Speaker 1: constantly, but it's, it's not bad.
And then I start to have experiences at night

890
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:54,540
Speaker 1: where it's very vivid. Uh, I think
the one experience that I mentioned to you is,

891
01:01:54,620 --> 01:01:57,620
Speaker 1: like, the one story I'd tell before
we move on to, you know, what's going on now,

892
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: is that I had a sense I would talk to
somebody at night. Um, I wanted to know,

893
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,380
Speaker 1: did I have a soul family? And I, I...
At, at this point, like, I'm pretty on board

894
01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: for that's who this probably is. I
think maybe they're spirit guides. Like, I don't

895
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: know, man. Like, I'm just guessing,
right? [chuckles] Deceased loved ones. Who, who

896
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:21,660
Speaker 1: knows? I don't know who they are.
It's difficult. It's messy. It's very
frustrating,

897
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,060
Speaker 1: this form of communication, 'cause it
feels like your own thoughts. It feels like

898
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,780
Speaker 1: writing dialogue in a book a lot of
the time.

899
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:28,161
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

900
01:02:28,220 --> 01:02:30,780
Speaker 1: It's like I just know what the next
line is. Like, it's not like...

901
01:02:32,420 --> 01:02:37,620
Speaker 1: It feels like you're talking to
yourself. But when it's really strong, this is
what

902
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:42,580
Speaker 1: people would call telepathy,
basically, the thoughts just come, and it's a
person

903
01:02:42,620 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: talking to you. And so this one
night, I have an experience where I have a sense
I'm

904
01:02:47,460 --> 01:02:53,380
Speaker 1: gonna meet somebody. And so I, I wake
up around 2:00 a.m., and I'm aware of my

905
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:59,180
Speaker 1: body, and I'm sitting in bed, uh, and
I'm awake. And,

906
01:02:59,980 --> 01:03:05,540
Speaker 1: but I can feel drawn into my imagined
visuals is a person and a scene. It's a white

907
01:03:05,580 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: plain. There's no... There's a floor,
but no ceiling and walls. And it's a girl, and

908
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: she's standing there, and she's
talking to me. You know, just a little small
talk

909
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: like, "Hey, what's up? Hey, good to
see you," this basic intro stuff. And I'm awake.

910
01:03:21,060 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: Like, I'm not sleeping. Like, I can
move my body, and when I move my body or put my

911
01:03:24,820 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: attention on my body, I start to wake
up. Um, and so it starts to dissolve, kind of

912
01:03:30,060 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: like a dream dissolves. And so I'm
putting my focus on this, but it's crystal
clear,

913
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:40,380
Speaker 1: and it's stable, and it's like
somebody is drawing a scene and a person into
your

914
01:03:40,420 --> 01:03:43,900
Speaker 1: own imagination. Like, it's
happening. I'm not making it happen. You can
imagine the

915
01:03:43,940 --> 01:03:49,460
Speaker 1: scene on your own. Imagine that being
forced into your imagination, and it's static.

916
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,700
Speaker 1: Like, it's happening whether you want
it to or not. I feel like I can shut it down

917
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: and turn it off if I want to, but
it's like a shared thing. And so I'm just

918
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 1: standing. I don't have a body. I'm
just, like, floating in front of this person,

919
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 1: dumbfounded, and she's, like, talking
to me, and I'm not saying anything. Just,

920
01:04:08,380 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: like, sort of knocking on the glass
like, "Hey. Hello. I'm trying to talk to you.

921
01:04:13,660 --> 01:04:19,220
Speaker 1: Can you answer me?" And then I just
say, "Holy shit, this is real." Like-

922
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:19,380
Speaker 2: Hmm

923
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:24,780
Speaker 1: ... "You are actually real. Uh, I can
see you now." Like, I'm in a... I guess you

924
01:04:24,820 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: could call this, like, astral
projection. I don't know. I don't know the
terms. Uh,

925
01:04:28,940 --> 01:04:34,860
Speaker 1: but I was there. It was more than
imagination, but less than a physical reality,

926
01:04:35,060 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: right? It's like I was being given an
imagined space, and I had my senses, but they

927
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:46,900
Speaker 1: were like 50% volume, right? Um, and
so I stop paying attention to

928
01:04:46,940 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: my body, and I'm focused in this
space. Now we're talking, and she's laughing,
and,

929
01:04:52,380 --> 01:04:56,820
Speaker 1: uh, I start to panic because
[chuckles] this is very scary. Uh, she's like,
"Don't

930
01:04:56,860 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: do that." And I can feel the whole
place start to, like, dissolve, like waking up

931
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: from a nightmare. Um, and she's like,
"Don't worry, you can't do that. Hey, you're

932
01:05:04,180 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: fine. Don't, don't freak out. Just,
just go with it. Nothing's hurting you. You're

933
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: gonna be okay."

934
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:09,220
Speaker 2: Hmm.

935
01:05:09,780 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: So I try to. Uh, I keep pausing
mid-conversation because I'm expecting it to not
be

936
01:05:15,180 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: real. And so I'm in that state for
about four hours, and, um, it's stable.

937
01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: [chuckles] I can ask whatever I want.
I can do whatever I want, and we talk. And

938
01:05:25,940 --> 01:05:30,020
Speaker 1: this is basically like a sibling,
like a twin. You can imagine a twin that wasn't

939
01:05:30,060 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: born.

940
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:31,140
Speaker 2: Hmm.

941
01:05:31,220 --> 01:05:36,660
Speaker 1: Uh, just chose not to, to be born.
But, "Hey, you can hear me now, so

942
01:05:37,220 --> 01:05:43,180
Speaker 1: I miss you. Hello. [chuckles] Hey."
Uh, and, um, yeah, I

943
01:05:43,220 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: mean, uh, we talk about a lot of
things. I have a lot of questions, as you might

944
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:51,660
Speaker 1: imagine, but I'm dumbstruck. Um, and
then, of course, there's a second part of that

945
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:56,380
Speaker 1: story if you, you want me to tell it,
but I think you get the gist. Like, the... I

946
01:05:56,420 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: get info dumped as well as
conversation, just regular catching up. And
yeah, just I

947
01:06:02,180 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: have a, like a soul family of sorts,
not just human. But like, you have a life

948
01:06:07,060 --> 01:06:09,860
Speaker 1: beyond your life as well, and I think
everyone does. Um-

949
01:06:09,940 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: Hmm

950
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: ... people, if you've lived more than
once, if you believe in reincarnation, you

951
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:18,300
Speaker 1: might have people from other lives.
Like, they're there, and they're not here, and

952
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,500
Speaker 1: once they can talk to you, yeah, they
love you. They miss you, of course. "Hey,

953
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: you've g- you've got a mailbox now.
I'm gonna send you messages." And that's what

954
01:06:26,420 --> 01:06:26,980
Speaker 1: was happening.

955
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,620
Speaker 2: Hmm. Wow.

956
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:36,580
Speaker 2: Sounds like a, just like a major
relief to kind of like meet this... You're kind
of

957
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:42,220
Speaker 2: like getting all of these
communications coming through and, um,

958
01:06:43,900 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: wondering if they're real, wondering
if they're really your own thoughts, and then

959
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 2: finally having this experience where
you visually meet this person and feel as if-

960
01:06:52,628 --> 01:06:56,768
Speaker 2: You're in their presence. You, you
are in their presence. Your experience was you

961
01:06:56,848 --> 01:06:57,608
Speaker 2: are in their presence.

962
01:06:58,728 --> 01:06:58,908
Speaker 1: Yeah.

963
01:06:59,328 --> 01:07:02,408
Speaker 2: But they're there all the time too,
right? [chuckles] Like the-- It's just like-

964
01:07:02,488 --> 01:07:02,489
Speaker 1: Yeah

965
01:07:02,488 --> 01:07:08,308
Speaker 2: ... in that liminal state, you were
able to, uh, to meet them more

966
01:07:09,728 --> 01:07:10,068
Speaker 2: fully.

967
01:07:10,928 --> 01:07:15,128
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a real participant, and
it was more, like, rich, a more vivid experience

968
01:07:15,168 --> 01:07:20,508
Speaker 1: than just feeling like my own
thoughts, which was great, uh, 'cause I, I, I
needed

969
01:07:20,568 --> 01:07:25,488
Speaker 1: that. Uh, we, uh... You, uh-- A lot
of this is about belief, and you have to, like,

970
01:07:25,548 --> 01:07:28,628
Speaker 1: wily coyote, you have to walk out on
the edge and just like, "Ah, I believe I can

971
01:07:28,688 --> 01:07:31,928
Speaker 1: move the tinfoil." And you have to
really sit with that for a long time.

972
01:07:31,948 --> 01:07:31,949
Speaker 2: Mm.

973
01:07:31,968 --> 01:07:37,048
Speaker 1: Like, "No, I know I can, I know I
can." And then eventually, one day it happens,
and

974
01:07:37,068 --> 01:07:41,288
Speaker 1: you're like, "Holy crap, I knew." Uh,
we'll get to that in the poem at the end. Uh,

975
01:07:41,388 --> 01:07:42,108
Speaker 1: but that's, um-

976
01:07:42,988 --> 01:07:43,128
Speaker 2: Hmm

977
01:07:43,128 --> 01:07:47,768
Speaker 1: ... it's, uh, it's happened to me so
many times now with it. Every th- But I still

978
01:07:47,828 --> 01:07:53,288
Speaker 1: do it. I still like, "I don't know.
Maybe I'm making it up. Maybe that didn't really

979
01:07:53,328 --> 01:07:56,888
Speaker 1: happen." Like, "I'm just gonna try to
hold this belief. I'm just gonna try to hold

980
01:07:56,928 --> 01:07:58,028
Speaker 1: it. It's gonna happen."

981
01:07:58,488 --> 01:07:58,489
Speaker 2: Hmm.

982
01:07:58,488 --> 01:08:04,028
Speaker 1: "This is how it works, I know." And
then you go, it sounds easy, but...

983
01:08:05,408 --> 01:08:09,748
Speaker 1: And then eventually it happens, so
you're like, "Holy crap. [chuckles] Okay. All

984
01:08:09,788 --> 01:08:14,028
Speaker 1: right, cool." And for those
wondering, like, I've asked for real world
validation. I

985
01:08:14,088 --> 01:08:18,408
Speaker 1: get definitions to terms I've never
heard of before. I've... I will lose stuff

986
01:08:18,448 --> 01:08:22,588
Speaker 1: around the house and just randomly
go, "Ugh." It's like somebody's frustrated with

987
01:08:22,628 --> 01:08:26,468
Speaker 1: me. Like, it's in the bottom drawer
near the sink. I'm like, "That's not where I put

988
01:08:26,528 --> 01:08:29,808
Speaker 1: that." Then like, I'll look
everywhere else around the house, like there's
no way. I

989
01:08:29,868 --> 01:08:32,548
Speaker 1: go, and I'm like, "Fine." I go look
in the bottom drawer near the sink, and there it

990
01:08:32,668 --> 01:08:37,108
Speaker 1: is, and there's just this sense of,
like, laughter. And it's like, "Man, goddammit."

991
01:08:37,128 --> 01:08:37,248
Speaker 1: [chuckles]

992
01:08:37,328 --> 01:08:41,468
Speaker 2: That would be helpful. I need, I need
that. [chuckles] Having two young kids,

993
01:08:41,608 --> 01:08:42,468
Speaker 2: like... [chuckles]

994
01:08:42,548 --> 01:08:42,948
Speaker 1: Yeah, well-

995
01:08:43,128 --> 01:08:46,768
Speaker 2: Your mind is just like a, a chaos.
[chuckles]

996
01:08:46,848 --> 01:08:49,928
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but it's not, you know,
they're not always there. It's like-

997
01:08:50,008 --> 01:08:50,748
Speaker 2: Yeah. [chuckles]

998
01:08:50,808 --> 01:08:52,908
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just like, just
checking in on you.

999
01:08:53,148 --> 01:08:53,149
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1000
01:08:53,168 --> 01:08:56,108
Speaker 1: "Hey, what's up?" Uh, or they could
always be there, right? There's not always

1001
01:08:56,108 --> 01:08:56,109
Speaker 1: presence.

1002
01:08:56,128 --> 01:08:59,408
Speaker 2: How does that shift your, like, sense
of self and autonomy-

1003
01:08:59,408 --> 01:09:00,488
Speaker 1: [chuckles]

1004
01:09:00,548 --> 01:09:03,948
Speaker 2: ... knowing that you're, like, always
being watched essentially, right? [chuckles]

1005
01:09:04,008 --> 01:09:06,728
Speaker 1: Well, surprise, everyone's always
being watched.

1006
01:09:06,748 --> 01:09:07,628
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but we don't-

1007
01:09:07,628 --> 01:09:09,088
Speaker 1: Everyone's got a loved one or a guide
or someone

1008
01:09:09,108 --> 01:09:11,648
Speaker 2: We don't realize that we are, right?
But now you know.

1009
01:09:13,248 --> 01:09:18,248
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like time is a thing here
beyond like the 3D material, linear space-time

1010
01:09:18,288 --> 01:09:23,448
Speaker 1: world. Like there's no scarcity of
time, and if somebody cares about you, their

1011
01:09:24,308 --> 01:09:27,688
Speaker 1: grandma, whatever, they're probably
watching all the time. I got a crazy medium

1012
01:09:27,748 --> 01:09:30,988
Speaker 1: story where after the Mindsight
training, some of the ladies there were mediums.
So

1013
01:09:31,068 --> 01:09:34,388
Speaker 1: I go... And they're training, right?
They, there's five old ladies. They bring me

1014
01:09:34,428 --> 01:09:38,348
Speaker 1: into a mediumship session. Like I've
never done this before, not like this. Like

1015
01:09:38,408 --> 01:09:41,428
Speaker 1: cool, I'll just sit there. So they
stare at me for 20 minutes over Zoom.

1016
01:09:42,068 --> 01:09:42,069
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1017
01:09:42,088 --> 01:09:45,508
Speaker 1: And then they take turns reading
impressions of whoever showed up, like deceased

1018
01:09:45,568 --> 01:09:50,668
Speaker 1: loved ones. And it's interesting, um,
I have this experience of, well, that was cool

1019
01:09:50,708 --> 01:09:55,168
Speaker 1: and all. It's kinda hard to place
some of this stuff. Um, like, eh, that was neat,
I

1020
01:09:55,228 --> 01:10:00,228
Speaker 1: guess. No dead ringers or anything.
And um, but I just have this sense of like

1021
01:10:00,288 --> 01:10:04,768
Speaker 1: sadness that I didn't expect, and I
realized I kinda just wanted them to tell me

1022
01:10:04,828 --> 01:10:09,348
Speaker 1: that they loved me. And instead I got
like a lot of, you know, "This is about my

1023
01:10:09,408 --> 01:10:12,708
Speaker 1: life. Here's some advice," a little
bit of lecturing.

1024
01:10:12,708 --> 01:10:13,388
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

1025
01:10:13,448 --> 01:10:18,128
Speaker 1: Like 'cause like, okay, cool, but
like that's all I really wanted was that you
think

1026
01:10:18,208 --> 01:10:21,768
Speaker 1: about me and you care about me. I
didn't know, I didn't know to ask for that.

1027
01:10:21,828 --> 01:10:23,148
Speaker 1: There's nobody else's fault.

1028
01:10:23,688 --> 01:10:23,868
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1029
01:10:24,208 --> 01:10:29,748
Speaker 1: And um, so after that happened, you
know, I didn't expect to feel those emotions. I

1030
01:10:29,768 --> 01:10:30,328
Speaker 1: didn't really share-

1031
01:10:30,368 --> 01:10:30,369
Speaker 2: Yeah

1032
01:10:30,368 --> 01:10:34,028
Speaker 1: ... that with anybody. It was just a
private internal thing, like, "Oh man, I feel a

1033
01:10:34,068 --> 01:10:35,168
Speaker 1: little hurt, actually." [chuckles] I
didn't-

1034
01:10:35,248 --> 01:10:35,288
Speaker 2: Hmm

1035
01:10:35,288 --> 01:10:40,688
Speaker 1: ... think I would. Uh, and so the
next morning, I get, uh, a text message from

1036
01:10:40,748 --> 01:10:44,548
Speaker 1: somebody who was in that Mindsight
training, and she messages me and she says, "I

1037
01:10:44,568 --> 01:10:47,588
Speaker 1: was thinking about you when I was
making my coffee this morning," 'cause we shared

1038
01:10:47,628 --> 01:10:52,988
Speaker 1: like the same like living space, uh,
while we were training. And she's like,

1039
01:10:53,008 --> 01:10:58,848
Speaker 1: "I also had this really weird feeling
that I needed to reach out to you, something

1040
01:10:58,928 --> 01:11:03,248
Speaker 1: about grandmas and like loving you.
Uh, does that mean anything to you? I'm sorry if

1041
01:11:03,288 --> 01:11:07,208
Speaker 1: it doesn't because I, I know that's
totally out of the blue. We haven't talked in a

1042
01:11:07,248 --> 01:11:10,847
Speaker 1: long time. I just felt like I had to
tell you that for some reason." And I'm like,

1043
01:11:10,928 --> 01:11:16,808
Speaker 1: "Oh my God, grandmas." So I mean, if
you buy the story, like, I mean, that happened.

1044
01:11:17,688 --> 01:11:21,408
Speaker 1: Some grandma is like, "Oh no, this
boy needs to know I love him." Like hold up. Uh,

1045
01:11:21,628 --> 01:11:22,948
Speaker 1: go grab the nearest person you can
possibly-

1046
01:11:22,948 --> 01:11:26,128
Speaker 2: I forgot to say, I had so much to
say, I forgot to say the most important thing.

1047
01:11:26,188 --> 01:11:26,648
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

1048
01:11:26,728 --> 01:11:29,348
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's more like, "Oh,
you don't think that we-"

1049
01:11:29,568 --> 01:11:29,888
Speaker 2: Oh.

1050
01:11:29,908 --> 01:11:30,908
Speaker 1: "You didn't know that?" Like-

1051
01:11:31,028 --> 01:11:31,108
Speaker 2: Gotcha

1052
01:11:31,128 --> 01:11:34,408
Speaker 1: ... "Well, you need to know that."
No, this is much more like, "You, I'm gonna make

1053
01:11:34,448 --> 01:11:35,688
Speaker 1: sure you know we love you."

1054
01:11:35,808 --> 01:11:36,028
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1055
01:11:36,128 --> 01:11:41,088
Speaker 1: And so I just... That's, if that's
not such a grandma thing, but I get validation

1056
01:11:41,128 --> 01:11:45,068
Speaker 1: like this all the time. I don't get a
lot of it because

1057
01:11:46,768 --> 01:11:48,088
Speaker 1: I think it's counterproductive.

1058
01:11:48,308 --> 01:11:48,468
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1059
01:11:48,828 --> 01:11:53,168
Speaker 1: And that's supposed, you're supposed
to start trusting, trusting your non-primary

1060
01:11:53,228 --> 01:11:54,388
Speaker 1: physical senses more.

1061
01:11:56,348 --> 01:12:01,888
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I mean, all this stuff
is what happens to me, um, at this stage, and I

1062
01:12:01,928 --> 01:12:03,728
Speaker 1: guess, you know, we can round it out
with that-

1063
01:12:04,168 --> 01:12:04,169
Speaker 2: Yeah

1064
01:12:04,168 --> 01:12:05,688
Speaker 1: ... where I'm at now, if that's okay
with you.

1065
01:12:06,228 --> 01:12:09,048
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this feels like a good
place to begin landing.

1066
01:12:09,908 --> 01:12:09,909
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1067
01:12:09,948 --> 01:12:13,568
Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear, like, you know,
having shared all of that and gone through this

1068
01:12:13,608 --> 01:12:16,788
Speaker 2: process of reflecting, what meaning
do you make of your journey?

1069
01:12:18,228 --> 01:12:23,508
Speaker 1: Well, I never expected this. What a
plot twist of a life. I like to think of my life

1070
01:12:23,548 --> 01:12:29,208
Speaker 1: as a story now at this point. It, uh,
a co-created story, [chuckles] but less

1071
01:12:29,268 --> 01:12:35,168
Speaker 1: attached to events. Um, I think
that's a better way of looking at it. I

1072
01:12:35,228 --> 01:12:39,968
Speaker 1: realized the power of intention and
that we can kind of have almost any experience

1073
01:12:40,028 --> 01:12:45,008
Speaker 1: we want within reason. You know,
we're in a place where there are rules and order

1074
01:12:45,068 --> 01:12:49,008
Speaker 1: and physics, and that's, that's good.
That's like a different thing. Like you're not

1075
01:12:49,048 --> 01:12:52,788
Speaker 1: gonna be able to snap your fingers
and make a giant block of gold appear. Well, I

1076
01:12:52,808 --> 01:12:56,828
Speaker 1: mean, probably not. Uh, I don't...
And that's good because it would defeat the

1077
01:12:56,888 --> 01:13:02,476
Speaker 1: purpose of a lot of the re-reason
we're here. And so I think a stage of
development

1078
01:13:02,536 --> 01:13:07,716
Speaker 1: I'm in now is I have everything I
want in life for the most part. I'm happy, I'm

1079
01:13:07,756 --> 01:13:11,716
Speaker 1: healthy, I'm stable, and that's
really when this started to pick up. And now I
have

1080
01:13:12,916 --> 01:13:18,136
Speaker 1: a sense of why am I here? Both me
authoring why I'm here, but also

1081
01:13:19,876 --> 01:13:24,596
Speaker 1: being receptive to more of being used
like a tool, like in a sort of pre-agreement.

1082
01:13:24,716 --> 01:13:29,076
Speaker 1: You could call that a calling or a
purpose, but a scribe. They actually kind of
line

1083
01:13:29,156 --> 01:13:34,816
Speaker 1: up, and I feel like intuitively, much
more directly, like literally just being told

1084
01:13:34,876 --> 01:13:39,856
Speaker 1: sometimes, "Uh, why are you here?"
Um, but it's more like a menu, like it's an

1085
01:13:39,936 --> 01:13:44,216
Speaker 1: offer. "Here's what you're good at,
here's what the world needs. Do this." Like

1086
01:13:44,556 --> 01:13:49,716
Speaker 1: just... But mostly it's an intuitive
sense. So I'm moving into a stage where I have

1087
01:13:49,776 --> 01:13:54,596
Speaker 1: a feeling like I know what I want out
of life, and now I'm more interested in

1088
01:13:54,656 --> 01:13:58,876
Speaker 1: helping. What do you do with a good
thing? Like all of this is awesome. A surprise

1089
01:13:58,936 --> 01:14:04,176
Speaker 1: like, uh, for those who are unaware,
like you're not gonna die when you're dead. You

1090
01:14:04,196 --> 01:14:07,436
Speaker 1: get to live forever, and reality is
way, way better than you thought it was, and you

1091
01:14:07,456 --> 01:14:08,856
Speaker 1: can have almost anything you want.

1092
01:14:08,876 --> 01:14:09,016
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1093
01:14:09,056 --> 01:14:11,876
Speaker 1: So, uh, there's the gift. In fact,
uh,

1094
01:14:13,616 --> 01:14:17,496
Speaker 1: one of these journals is me waking up
in the middle of the night, somebody very

1095
01:14:17,536 --> 01:14:23,396
Speaker 1: surprised, uh, like a surprise party
and just like, "What is this thing?" Telling me

1096
01:14:23,456 --> 01:14:28,276
Speaker 1: happy birthday. I think, uh, like
what are you talking about? It's like, "You're

1097
01:14:28,316 --> 01:14:31,856
Speaker 1: about to get a gift." And then it's
like, "What's the gift?" "It's the gift of

1098
01:14:31,936 --> 01:14:36,776
Speaker 1: everything. You're about to learn
that it's all awesome, and you can have almost

1099
01:14:36,836 --> 01:14:41,836
Speaker 1: anything you want, and you're not
gonna die." Like, "Oh, cool." Uh, but now I know

1100
01:14:41,896 --> 01:14:46,556
Speaker 1: it, right? I, I know it on a deeper
level. Uh, so life is more playful and more

1101
01:14:48,216 --> 01:14:53,176
Speaker 1: what can I do with this, right? How
can I have fun? How can I live into this? How

1102
01:14:53,216 --> 01:14:58,716
Speaker 1: can I do something meaningful? And
that's sort of the stage I'm in. I feel like
I...

1103
01:14:59,256 --> 01:15:04,616
Speaker 1: I'm, I'm in the rarefied position of,
from my perspective, kinda understanding the

1104
01:15:04,756 --> 01:15:10,455
Speaker 1: 80/20 of how reality and
consciousness works and who I am and how it all

1105
01:15:10,496 --> 01:15:16,356
Speaker 1: works, the big questions. I wrote
yesterday in a journal that I feel like I have

1106
01:15:16,456 --> 01:15:21,896
Speaker 1: satisfactory and firsthand validated
answers to

1107
01:15:23,496 --> 01:15:27,716
Speaker 1: all the big questions I've ever come
up with. That is a very strange position to be

1108
01:15:27,776 --> 01:15:32,856
Speaker 1: in as a human being. Um, well, now
that those boxes are checked, I guess I'm just

1109
01:15:32,876 --> 01:15:36,876
Speaker 1: gonna have fun and try to help other
people have fun too. Uh, so that's where I'm

1110
01:15:36,936 --> 01:15:37,096
Speaker 1: at.

1111
01:15:38,096 --> 01:15:38,196
Speaker 2: Mm.

1112
01:15:39,776 --> 01:15:40,356
Speaker 1: I recommend it.

1113
01:15:40,896 --> 01:15:45,416
Speaker 2: I really like that you said reality
is way better than you think it is. [chuckles]

1114
01:15:45,516 --> 01:15:45,796
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1115
01:15:46,136 --> 01:15:46,156
Speaker 2: I love that.

1116
01:15:46,196 --> 01:15:46,976
Speaker 1: And it keeps happening.

1117
01:15:47,576 --> 01:15:51,676
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and so much of your story
just testifies to that, so I'm-

1118
01:15:52,136 --> 01:15:52,456
Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah

1119
01:15:52,676 --> 01:15:54,636
Speaker 2: ... you know, thanking you for
bringing that up and-

1120
01:15:55,396 --> 01:15:56,636
Speaker 1: Sure. [clears throat]

1121
01:15:56,716 --> 01:16:00,176
Speaker 2: If anyone listening is moving through
their own rupture, what would you like them to

1122
01:16:00,216 --> 01:16:00,416
Speaker 2: hear?

1123
01:16:02,416 --> 01:16:08,256
Speaker 1: I would say that your thoughts,
emotions, feelings, beliefs are,

1124
01:16:09,516 --> 01:16:15,356
Speaker 1: um, not just-- They are not you, so
chill out. Uh, they're part of an

1125
01:16:15,396 --> 01:16:20,256
Speaker 1: experience, but they are also what's
controlling what you get to a large degree

1126
01:16:21,036 --> 01:16:26,136
Speaker 1: eventually, right? It's y-
imagination, all of these things that I treated
as

1127
01:16:26,196 --> 01:16:31,636
Speaker 1: secondary or ephemeral or just like
icing on a reality cake, turns out they are what

1128
01:16:31,696 --> 01:16:36,296
Speaker 1: determines the cake, like eventually.
Think of it as like steering something very

1129
01:16:36,376 --> 01:16:40,916
Speaker 1: slowly, but sometimes not so slowly.
And the more you can lean into that, the more

1130
01:16:40,936 --> 01:16:45,396
Speaker 1: you'll get what you want. Like you're
always creating your own reality to a degree

1131
01:16:45,476 --> 01:16:50,976
Speaker 1: or largely influencing here, uh,
eventually creating, um, whole cloth.

1132
01:16:51,476 --> 01:16:57,056
Speaker 1: And that, um, the good news is you
were, you have inherited a

1133
01:16:57,976 --> 01:17:03,896
Speaker 1: unconditionally loving and completely
connected universe that wants nothing but to

1134
01:17:03,956 --> 01:17:08,316
Speaker 1: give you everything you want and
cares about you and fundamentally, like no

1135
01:17:08,356 --> 01:17:13,716
Speaker 1: conditions. Uh, it didn't have to be
this good. Uh, it doesn't always feel that way

1136
01:17:13,756 --> 01:17:18,916
Speaker 1: from our current seat, um, but we're
playing on hard mode right now. And, um,

1137
01:17:19,576 --> 01:17:24,336
Speaker 1: don't worry so much because the big
things are already sorted out. You already

1138
01:17:24,356 --> 01:17:28,316
Speaker 1: inherited like everything you could
ever want, and even if you screw up here

1139
01:17:28,996 --> 01:17:34,816
Speaker 1: completely, it doesn't really matter.
You're already good forever. So don't worry

1140
01:17:34,876 --> 01:17:40,696
Speaker 1: too much. And if that doesn't feel
true yet, the advice I keep getting over and
over

1141
01:17:40,736 --> 01:17:45,576
Speaker 1: again every time I hit a moment where
it's like, "Holy crap, like what is reality?

1142
01:17:45,616 --> 01:17:50,416
Speaker 1: How do I go to work tomorrow? I can
see through my eyelids, and I'm talking to

1143
01:17:50,456 --> 01:17:54,016
Speaker 1: people in my head that appear to be
real. Like I don't know. How do I keep going?

1144
01:17:54,496 --> 01:17:57,636
Speaker 1: Like how do I integrate this? Like
how do I make sense of anything? What is even

1145
01:17:57,716 --> 01:18:01,496
Speaker 1: real anymore?" The answer is just
keep going.

1146
01:18:01,816 --> 01:18:01,976
Speaker 2: Mm.

1147
01:18:02,036 --> 01:18:04,056
Speaker 1: If you can do that, if you can

1148
01:18:05,836 --> 01:18:08,256
Speaker 1: somehow get yourself to a positive
orientation

1149
01:18:10,016 --> 01:18:10,896
Speaker 1: and just keep going,

1150
01:18:12,556 --> 01:18:17,836
Speaker 1: you'll make it. Like you'll, you'll
find your own experiences. You have your own

1151
01:18:17,876 --> 01:18:22,116
Speaker 1: revelations. You'll have your own...
It won't be the same as mine. We're all

1152
01:18:22,156 --> 01:18:27,596
Speaker 1: different, and so you get your own
personalized experience, um, and it'll keep

1153
01:18:27,616 --> 01:18:31,936
Speaker 1: happening. The magic will be in the
world as long as you expect it to be there and

1154
01:18:31,996 --> 01:18:33,056
Speaker 1: as long as you keep playing.

1155
01:18:33,636 --> 01:18:33,637
Speaker 2: Mm.

1156
01:18:33,676 --> 01:18:36,316
Speaker 1: So hopefully that's helpful. Just
don't stop playing.

1157
01:18:37,016 --> 01:18:39,896
Speaker 2: Hmm. Don't stop playing. I dig it.

1158
01:18:41,556 --> 01:18:45,376
Speaker 2: Do you have any, um, anywhere people
can find out about your work or your writing,

1159
01:18:45,736 --> 01:18:46,376
Speaker 2: your thinking?

1160
01:18:48,136 --> 01:18:53,636
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have-- I write fiction, but
it's not super relevant to this. Um, but I, I've

1161
01:18:53,656 --> 01:18:57,936
Speaker 1: been trying to write about my
experiences or distilling, I think, important
lessons

1162
01:18:58,036 --> 01:19:04,016
Speaker 1: on a blog. That's devas.compass.ink.
I don't get anything out of this. It's just

1163
01:19:04,976 --> 01:19:09,668
Speaker 1: read it. Uh, I don't need anything.
I'm in the- A wonderful position of I've got

1164
01:19:09,708 --> 01:19:10,868
Speaker 1: what I need. I just wanna-

1165
01:19:10,908 --> 01:19:10,968
Speaker 2: Good

1166
01:19:11,208 --> 01:19:15,908
Speaker 1: ... have good times with good people.
Um, so by all means, if you found this useful,

1167
01:19:16,828 --> 01:19:20,648
Speaker 1: please go read that. Uh, but you
kinda already have everything you need is, is
the

1168
01:19:20,688 --> 01:19:23,888
Speaker 1: advice I give to everyone else. But
if I can help you make sense of it or, uh,

1169
01:19:24,008 --> 01:19:28,948
Speaker 1: Joshua can, by all means, borrow and
cheat and steal. I've cheated every opportunity

1170
01:19:29,028 --> 01:19:29,368
Speaker 1: I get.

1171
01:19:29,368 --> 01:19:29,888
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

1172
01:19:29,928 --> 01:19:30,568
Speaker 1: Why wait in line?

1173
01:19:31,728 --> 01:19:31,928
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1174
01:19:33,568 --> 01:19:38,208
Speaker 2: All right. Thank you, Steven. Um, as
we're closing, I'm just, like,

1175
01:19:40,108 --> 01:19:46,068
Speaker 2: feeling gratitude and, you know, awe
in hearing your story and reinvigorated on my

1176
01:19:46,128 --> 01:19:51,568
Speaker 2: own path and practice and, um, so
many of the things you've brought into

1177
01:19:52,548 --> 01:19:57,808
Speaker 2: the circle that we've initiated
together and, you know, in our conversations
have

1178
01:19:57,868 --> 01:20:02,708
Speaker 2: motivated me to, you know, try new
things and go in new paths. And every time I

1179
01:20:02,768 --> 01:20:07,188
Speaker 2: close my eyes now, I'm like, I tell
myself, "I can see without my eyes," and I'm

1180
01:20:07,228 --> 01:20:07,368
Speaker 2: just-

1181
01:20:07,488 --> 01:20:07,948
Speaker 1: Mm

1182
01:20:07,948 --> 01:20:11,848
Speaker 2: ... you know, even as the, at the end
of my meditation, I've been trying to affirm

1183
01:20:11,908 --> 01:20:13,728
Speaker 2: that, remember to affirm that. And,
uh-

1184
01:20:14,008 --> 01:20:14,408
Speaker 1: Heck yeah

1185
01:20:14,408 --> 01:20:19,388
Speaker 2: ... so I'm excited to know you and be
inspired on the path, the path that you're,

1186
01:20:19,568 --> 01:20:23,668
Speaker 2: you're treading your, for your own
life. Yeah, in a couple words, like, how are you

1187
01:20:23,728 --> 01:20:24,488
Speaker 2: checking out today?

1188
01:20:25,568 --> 01:20:30,368
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful to have fellow
people to be on the journey with, you know? And,

1189
01:20:30,448 --> 01:20:30,608
Speaker 1: um,

1190
01:20:32,208 --> 01:20:37,548
Speaker 1: I just hope that-- I don't want
anyone to ever... Inspired is, is exactly what I

1191
01:20:37,588 --> 01:20:41,208
Speaker 1: hope for because I kinda just want
other people to go get their own version of
this.

1192
01:20:41,268 --> 01:20:44,988
Speaker 1: It's waiting for them. You don't have
to live in mundane reality anymore. If you

1193
01:20:45,068 --> 01:20:49,308
Speaker 1: just ask, just say, "Hey, I want my
version of this," and then take whatever

1194
01:20:49,348 --> 01:20:50,528
Speaker 1: breadcrumb comes your way-

1195
01:20:50,688 --> 01:20:50,689
Speaker 2: Mm

1196
01:20:50,688 --> 01:20:55,388
Speaker 1: ... and something will, and just keep
following those. The universe, the universe

1197
01:20:55,408 --> 01:21:00,208
Speaker 1: will play with you however you wanna
frame it. Um, it'll give you the next step.

1198
01:21:00,588 --> 01:21:04,688
Speaker 1: Keep following those steps, and you
can have your own version of this, and I, I hope

1199
01:21:04,728 --> 01:21:08,848
Speaker 1: that everyone does that, you
included. 'Cause I, I wanna live in that world
with

1200
01:21:08,908 --> 01:21:10,868
Speaker 1: other people. Who wants to do it
alone? That's no fun.

1201
01:21:11,528 --> 01:21:15,828
Speaker 2: Let's all become yogis with yogic
superpowers, flying around-

1202
01:21:15,847 --> 01:21:16,428
Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever your version is, yeah

1203
01:21:16,428 --> 01:21:21,368
Speaker 2: ... communicating with our mind and
build a world like that. [laughs]

1204
01:21:21,628 --> 01:21:21,988
Speaker 1: Whatever you want.

1205
01:21:22,008 --> 01:21:26,528
Speaker 2: That's a fun, that's a fun world. I,
I wanna live in. Cool. Thank you, Steven. Um,

1206
01:21:26,748 --> 01:21:30,288
Speaker 2: we always like to close with a little
offering from the guest, so if you have

1207
01:21:30,348 --> 01:21:32,148
Speaker 2: something, please share it with us.

1208
01:21:33,328 --> 01:21:38,488
Speaker 1: Cool. Um, I did select something. I
wrote a poem. I don't usually like poetry

1209
01:21:38,548 --> 01:21:42,028
Speaker 1: because it makes me do too much work,
and that stresses me out. Like, did I

1210
01:21:42,088 --> 01:21:45,948
Speaker 1: understand it correctly? I don't
know. So I don't actually enjoy it because it's,

1211
01:21:45,968 --> 01:21:50,928
Speaker 1: [chuckles] I'm too psyched out about
it. But I decided to write one, um, and this

1212
01:21:50,988 --> 01:21:56,588
Speaker 1: happened after one of, one of many
things that I, I never thought could actually be

1213
01:21:56,668 --> 01:22:01,888
Speaker 1: true ended up being true. So that's
the context to know. Uh, so the poem itself is

1214
01:22:01,968 --> 01:22:03,028
Speaker 1: called To Know.

1215
01:22:05,408 --> 01:22:11,088
Speaker 1: To know that you really are the
person you hoped you'd be, that the things you
told

1216
01:22:11,128 --> 01:22:16,508
Speaker 1: yourself you didn't need were
fundamental truths from a changed heart and not
the

1217
01:22:16,568 --> 01:22:21,848
Speaker 1: lamentations of a spurned one. When
this life offers you opportunity to prove,

1218
01:22:22,588 --> 01:22:28,568
Speaker 1: you will feel that solitary triumph.
No one knows of the tension held so long

1219
01:22:29,108 --> 01:22:34,148
Speaker 1: even you forgot it was there. It was
true. Oh,

1220
01:22:35,148 --> 01:22:41,108
Speaker 1: it was true all along. This is what
it feels like to know they

1221
01:22:41,128 --> 01:22:42,648
Speaker 1: were not just words.

1222
01:22:42,748 --> 01:22:48,468
Speaker 2: [gentle music] Thank you

1223
01:22:48,528 --> 01:22:52,808
Speaker 2: again for joining us in this circle
of ruptures and roots. These stories remind us

1224
01:22:52,868 --> 01:22:57,688
Speaker 2: that rupture isn't the end. It's
where roots begin to reach once more for life.
If

1225
01:22:57,748 --> 01:23:02,028
Speaker 2: this conversation touched something
in you, then I invite you to sit with it, let it

1226
01:23:02,068 --> 01:23:07,268
Speaker 2: ripple, and maybe share it with
someone who might also feel the resonance. This
work

1227
01:23:07,308 --> 01:23:11,448
Speaker 2: is offered in the spirit of the gift.
If you feel called to honor the energy and

1228
01:23:11,508 --> 01:23:15,708
Speaker 2: commitment that goes into creating
this podcast, then I invite you to become a paid

1229
01:23:15,768 --> 01:23:20,308
Speaker 2: subscriber on Substack at
gospelsofrupture.substack.com.

1230
01:23:22,088 --> 01:23:26,408
Speaker 2: Until next time, may you find
nourishment in the roots beneath you and courage
in

1231
01:23:26,448 --> 01:23:27,987
Speaker 2: the ruptures that open your path.

1232
01:23:28,068 --> 01:23:34,708
Speaker 2: [gentle music]