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00:00:00.000 Speaker 1 [gentle music]
00:00:06.760 Speaker 1 Reality 101 is a journal of impossible experiences from first-hand explorations into
00:00:11.580 Speaker 1 the nature of reality, what it means for all of us, and how you can experience it
00:00:16.000 Speaker 1 for yourself.
00:00:18.260 Speaker 1 I am Stephen Tremp.
00:00:20.320 Speaker 2 And I am Joshua Swenson. This episode of Reality 101 is called See, Wake
00:00:26.420 Speaker 2 Up, Remember. We'll explore how to know what is real, how to make it real, and what
00:00:32.619 Speaker 2 real even means, if anything.
00:00:36.600 Speaker 2 So before we dive into that, and, uh, we always like to do a little check-in in the
00:00:41.620 Speaker 2 beginning, so just wondering how you're arriving today, Stephen. It's a live for
00:00:46.700 Speaker 2 you.
00:00:48.220 Speaker 1 I'm good. I just went for a run. I, um, took a little nap, had a pretty good
00:00:54.100 Speaker 1 meditation. I always look through my journals before we do these recordings, so I'm
00:00:58.560 Speaker 1 often [chuckles] going to arrive in the same place, which is, holy crap, a lot has
00:01:03.060 Speaker 1 happened to me. [laughs] I just-- You wouldn't think that you would forget, but my
00:01:07.400 Speaker 1 mind is a sieve, and it's just, it's like I have to load it back up into memory.
00:01:11.920 Speaker 1 It's, uh, it's in order to even tell the story because it just, it all leaves me.
00:01:16.800 Speaker 1 You know, I'm sure it's all baked in there somewhere, and I, I remember the peak
00:01:19.760 Speaker 1 moments. But it's, uh, I always come in in a pretty jovial mood, just like shocked,
00:01:25.980 Speaker 1 uh, at what I've been through, and, uh, excited. So I'm feeling pretty good. I'm
00:01:30.060 Speaker 1 about to go on vacation, uh, so I'm feeling even better because of that. [chuckles]
00:01:34.020 Speaker 1 So-
00:01:34.240 Speaker 2 Hmm. Where you guys going? Or where are you going?
00:01:36.640 Speaker 1 I'm going on a meditation retreat, uh, Darren King's-
00:01:38.940 Speaker 2 Oh
00:01:39.000 Speaker 1 ... meditation retreat.
00:01:39.600 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:41.700 Speaker 2 Yeah, I wish I, I wish I could've made it to that. I've been in his classes and
00:01:45.780 Speaker 2 really enjoyed that community. And it's happening in California this year, so it, it
00:01:50.320 Speaker 2 could, it could've happened, but-
00:01:51.860 Speaker 1 Could have
00:01:52.120 Speaker 2 ... uh, maybe next year. [chuckles]
00:01:56.120 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:01:56.280 Speaker 2 Cool. Uh, well, I'm arriving today, yeah, feeling excited. It was, like, cool to
00:02:00.440 Speaker 2 record our last episode, and, uh, the recording came through well. And yeah, just
00:02:06.280 Speaker 2 eager to hear more of your experiences. It's really been encouraging to
00:02:12.380 Speaker 2 hear about your practices and the experiences that have resulted from those,
00:02:18.340 Speaker 2 and the revelations that y- you've come to through that. I've been doing more of
00:02:23.520 Speaker 2 those myself and, uh, since our last recording,
00:02:29.340 Speaker 2 um-
00:02:29.380 Speaker 1 You mind if I ask, like, what specifically?
00:02:32.980 Speaker 2 What pr- uh, amongst the practices? Yeah, I was gonna share. Yeah, I think just,
00:02:36.160 Speaker 2 uh... I mean, I'm already doing a lot of meditation, deep meditation, and I think
00:02:39.680 Speaker 2 some of the-- You've shared some guided meditations with me that have,
00:02:45.060 Speaker 2 uh, been useful. Uh, and just, like, touch points and if- even little parts of,
00:02:51.600 Speaker 2 um,
00:02:53.940 Speaker 2 seeing reality differently, uh, and wondering into that. Um,
00:02:59.900 Speaker 2 like you shared about non-dual experience you had recently. And so I'm, as I'm
00:03:05.580 Speaker 2 walking around, I'm-- or just in meditation, I kind of like stretch my mind, my
00:03:10.480 Speaker 2 imagination into that space and feeling into that possibility. Um, and yeah,
00:03:16.720 Speaker 2 I will-- I've, I've been having these, uh, experiences, uh, where I,
00:03:22.860 Speaker 2 I feel as if I'm awakened in the early hours around 3:00 a.m. Many people
00:03:28.780 Speaker 2 who have been doing meditation for a long time and are on a spiritual path know that
00:03:32.420 Speaker 2 is a prime time to meditate and to have, uh, deep experiences. Uh,
00:03:38.440 Speaker 2 I've had many altered state experiences with psychedelics. Uh, and 3:00 a.m. I would
00:03:44.320 Speaker 2 say is a kind of altered state too, where everything is really quiet. My mind
00:03:50.220 Speaker 2 is quiet. The world is quiet. Many say that there's
00:03:55.880 Speaker 2 a quiet in the psychic space too, as other b- everyone else around you is sleeping.
00:04:00.700 Speaker 1 It's prime time, man.
00:04:02.200 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, uh, that's when I have really deep experiences, what I perceive to be
00:04:07.600 Speaker 2 encounters with-- Well, or just anomalous encounters. I don't, I w- I don't,
00:04:13.600 Speaker 2 I won't put a label on these. Um, and it fits really well into the topic
00:04:19.500 Speaker 2 of this episode because these experiences feel more real than real. Um,
00:04:27.380 Speaker 2 my perception is that I am contacting something or something is in contact with me.
00:04:33.540 Speaker 2 And, uh, I'll be sitting in meditation, and all of a sudden my body will light up
00:04:38.820 Speaker 2 with this kind of tingling sensation,
00:04:42.440 Speaker 2 uh, from the core. You know, all my hair is standing on end, just like a vibrational
00:04:47.900 Speaker 2 sort of state. And last time you shared about meeting your soul
00:04:53.840 Speaker 2 mother, and so this time-- And, and I've been making this intention since our
00:04:59.760 Speaker 2 meeting, so that's one, another one of the practices, the power of intention, and
00:05:02.960 Speaker 2 just-
00:05:03.440 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
00:05:03.600 Speaker 2 ... uh, to shape your experience and shape your reality. You know, I've been making
00:05:07.220 Speaker 2 this intention. I want to participate in greater reality, which is something I
00:05:12.060 Speaker 2 learned from you. And then I was like, "I want to meet my soul family. I want to
00:05:16.560 Speaker 2 meet my soul mother." Um, and so I was sitting in meditation. I get one of these
00:05:21.860 Speaker 2 pings. In the past, I've gotten them with intentionally reaching out to
00:05:27.780 Speaker 2 different beings or presences. Like, I've gotten pings when I reached
00:05:33.720 Speaker 2 out to the Earth and felt, you know, Earth awareness and reaching out to the sun or
00:05:39.040 Speaker 2 my ancestors, or, um, I have a, a relationship with Jesus as well as one of my
00:05:44.840 Speaker 2 guides. And all of those are like kind of, I felt more intentional reaching out. But
00:05:48.880 Speaker 2 this was like, it felt as if something was reaching out to me 'cause the ping just
00:05:51.920 Speaker 2 came as I was meditating, and it brought my awareness down to my heart. Um, and then
00:05:57.740 Speaker 2 all of a sudden this, like, ping comes, and I was like, "Oh, who is there?" And then
00:06:02.780 Speaker 2 the thought comes, "Soul mother?" [laughs] And then there's like, as if in
00:06:08.516 Speaker 2 response, there's a bigger ping and this experience proceeds along the lines
00:06:14.916 Speaker 2 similar to what you described in your, our last conversation where
00:06:20.876 Speaker 2 it's feels as if the dialogue is happening, where I'm asking a question and the
00:06:26.516 Speaker 2 response comes, but it's my own thought, you know?
00:06:31.416 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:06:31.676 Speaker 2 Uh, so I, I'm thinking, "Is this happening in my own head? Am I making this all up?"
00:06:36.636 Speaker 2 [laughs] And I'm just, you know, allowing myself to believe into,
00:06:42.516 Speaker 2 uh, that possibility that I really am having a conversation with something, and
00:06:45.616 Speaker 2 maybe these, uh, responses are real, you know, are, are coming from somewhere
00:06:51.336 Speaker 2 non-physical, some being, Soul Mother.
00:06:54.036 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:06:54.616 Speaker 2 And, uh, yeah. And, um, so it progressed along those lines. You know, Steven
00:07:00.576 Speaker 2 and I are both writers, so, you know, we've wr- we've both written a lot of
00:07:03.736 Speaker 2 dialogue, and it kind of feels like that, you know? And when you start a
00:07:06.336 Speaker 2 conversation,
00:07:09.016 Speaker 2 the first person to speak, um, elicits a particular response from
00:07:14.996 Speaker 2 the next person to speak, right? So if you have character A, character A starts with
00:07:19.416 Speaker 2 like, "How are you doing today?" Character B is gonna say, "I'm doing well. How are
00:07:23.496 Speaker 2 you?" You know, and the dialogue can, you know, proceed in a, um,
00:07:29.876 Speaker 2 predictable fashion based off of that. We have these scripts running in our minds.
00:07:33.656 Speaker 2 So there's this part of me that's like there's a cognitive script that's running
00:07:38.776 Speaker 2 this. But the other part of me is the believer that wants to really believe that
00:07:44.436 Speaker 2 there's, um, that these responses are coming from Soul Mother or another being or
00:07:49.596 Speaker 2 whatever when, in these situations, in these experiences I've had. And then the
00:07:53.916 Speaker 2 pinging part, you know, that really feels like, uh, a, a re- a realness, an
00:07:59.476 Speaker 2 aliveness, like a vibrancy that's just, um, more alive than
00:08:05.376 Speaker 2 my mundane consciousness, you know? More visceral and embodied and just
00:08:10.836 Speaker 2 magical. [laughs] So yeah, and so that's, that kind of accompanies the whole
00:08:16.256 Speaker 2 conversation, as if in confirmation of some of these little exchanges.
00:08:21.636 Speaker 2 Uh, yeah, so that was the, that was one of the experiences, and then I had a similar
00:08:25.596 Speaker 2 experience the next night, and it was a perception of meeting my Soul Father.
00:08:30.396 Speaker 1 Oh.
00:08:30.776 Speaker 2 Um,
00:08:32.756 Speaker 2 surprise, it's Jesus. [laughs]
00:08:38.196 Speaker 1 [laughs]
00:08:38.376 Speaker 2 At least that was my perception at some point. I was like, "Who is this Soul Father
00:08:42.656 Speaker 2 person?" [laughs]
00:08:43.496 Speaker 1 Like by appearance or like just showed up and said, "Yo, what's up, Roger?"
00:08:46.576 Speaker 2 By felt. No, no, I don't, I don't have, I don't have visual, um... I don't have, I
00:08:51.236 Speaker 2 don't currently have a visual.
00:08:54.056 Speaker 1 Not yet.
00:08:54.236 Speaker 2 Yeah, not yet. It's just kind of like the c- it's like I think that. I'm like-
00:08:58.476 Speaker 1 Mm
00:08:58.656 Speaker 2 ... you know, "Soul Father?" And there's like a ping, and then I'm like-
00:09:01.776 Speaker 1 Yeah
00:09:01.876 Speaker 2 ... "Jesus?" And there's a ping, you know?
00:09:05.336 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:09:05.436 Speaker 2 Uh, I don't know what that means, but that's, that's just my experience and, you
00:09:09.216 Speaker 2 know, I have shared elsewhere about my journey of coming into a relationship with
00:09:14.656 Speaker 2 the Gnostic Jesus through the lost years writing this, uh, television pilot
00:09:21.536 Speaker 2 I've been working on for a number of years, and it was just ... How that's been a
00:09:24.436 Speaker 2 really transformational experience.
00:09:27.336 Speaker 2 So yeah, I just wanted to check in with those two experiences, and I feel like it's
00:09:30.256 Speaker 2 really relevant, you know, that, uh, we're doing this podcast as a kind of
00:09:36.256 Speaker 2 like invitation for anybody listening. Um, I'm, I'm kind of like the guinea pig-
00:09:41.256 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:09:41.696 Speaker 1 It works
00:09:41.836 Speaker 2 ... Steven. [laughs]
00:09:42.836 Speaker 1 Yeah. You're not the only guinea pig, but you're, you're definitely like... You're,
00:09:46.356 Speaker 1 you're hot on my heels, man. I, I-
00:09:48.176 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:09:48.256 Speaker 1 ... this is exciting for me because I get to see somebody else, like vicariously.
00:09:52.076 Speaker 1 It's like, cool, I get to watch it again, and now I get to watch somebody else's
00:09:55.816 Speaker 1 like extreme and awesome personal journey, you know, to the extent-
00:09:59.796 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:09:59.796 Speaker 1 ... that you're willing to share. Uh, it's fun for me.
00:10:03.936 Speaker 2 I always just love s- like your enthusiastic responses, too, you know? 'Cause I
00:10:09.056 Speaker 2 imagine as you're having these experiences, I don't know who you could share them
00:10:13.236 Speaker 2 with.
00:10:14.076 Speaker 1 I was so alone.
00:10:14.396 Speaker 2 You know, and I've had many experiences in the past where I felt alienated and
00:10:18.236 Speaker 2 isolated as I was beginning to encounter my, you know, energy and my body, my
00:10:22.576 Speaker 2 chakras, and trying to talk about it with friends and family, and they just get, you
00:10:26.736 Speaker 2 get these like eye rolls or something [laughs] like kind of blank stares.
00:10:29.876 Speaker 1 [laughs]
00:10:30.476 Speaker 2 So it's just cool to like have somebody who I can share it with, and then you're
00:10:33.816 Speaker 2 like, "Yeah, man, that made my day. Keep it up." [laughs]
00:10:38.396 Speaker 1 That's awesome.
00:10:39.076 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:10:40.396 Speaker 1 Um, so keep going. That's amazing. Uh, always like, you know, as long as it's not
00:10:46.376 Speaker 1 harming you and there's nothing like bad happening, like always like believe it,
00:10:50.136 Speaker 1 right?
00:10:50.716 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:10:50.796 Speaker 1 Uh, especially early on. It's like this little tiny ember. Like you gotta stoke that
00:10:55.456 Speaker 1 flame. I'd say trust what you feel, and to the degree that something feels more real
00:11:00.636 Speaker 1 to you, whatever that means, however you define that, that's a good indicator. It's
00:11:04.516 Speaker 1 not perfect. Everything gets filtered through you. Everything comes through you, so
00:11:10.216 Speaker 1 that's ... It's gonna hit all your insecurities and fears and everything. Like all
00:11:12.916 Speaker 1 of that distorts what you see. But I would trust what you feel very heavily, and the
00:11:18.416 Speaker 1 words that you shape out of the intuition, eh-
00:11:22.716 Speaker 2 Right
00:11:22.736 Speaker 1 ... when I, the, my-
00:11:24.036 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:11:24.056 Speaker 1 ... first experience talking like in like telepathy, didn't know what it was then,
00:11:29.236 Speaker 1 was in remote viewing, uh, Iris, my twin, I can [laughs] say that with a straight
00:11:35.016 Speaker 1 face now. But I, I thought that she was the spirit of the Earth 'cause that was the
00:11:39.296 Speaker 1 target.
00:11:39.936 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:11:40.016 Speaker 1 I was doing a remote viewing training class. We'd been given a target, and it w-
00:11:44.436 Speaker 1 ended up being the spirit of the Earth. I had no idea that it was that. Like the one
00:11:47.516 Speaker 1 before this was like a Guinness Book World Records, and then before that was like a
00:11:50.556 Speaker 1 picture of like somebody on a high wire. Like I had no idea what the target was, and
00:11:54.936 Speaker 1 I do it, and I just get this like huge surge of energy. I'd never felt anything like
00:11:59.296 Speaker 1 it. I'm like, "Holy-"
00:12:00.636 Speaker 2 Mm
00:12:00.716 Speaker 1 ... "what is happening to me?" And like somebody is like insanely excited and trying
00:12:05.876 Speaker 1 to talk to me. I'm like, "I do not know what is happening." But I thought that she
00:12:10.156 Speaker 1 was a spirit of the earth. I thought that for, like, a month or two. Like, I did a
00:12:14.216 Speaker 1 couple more remote viewing targets that were blinded. I ended up getting her. It's
00:12:17.256 Speaker 1 like she just sort of cut in line. [laughs]
00:12:20.056 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:12:21.196 Speaker 1 So when you, you know, y- Jesus is your, your soul father, like, I don't know, man.
00:12:25.496 Speaker 1 Maybe.
00:12:25.856 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:12:27.156 Speaker 1 Like, a lot of this stuff is like-
00:12:28.436 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:12:28.676 Speaker 1 ... and these people are way more patient than we are. They're-
00:12:31.896 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:12:31.896 Speaker 1 ... willing to let us be wrong, but, like, because they know we'll be eventually
00:12:35.436 Speaker 1 right.
00:12:36.276 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:12:36.316 Speaker 1 Just sort of patiently, like a child, like, learning to walk. They don't care that
00:12:39.576 Speaker 1 you fall down and run into stuff. They, they have no cringe factor. They don't care.
00:12:43.056 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:12:43.816 Speaker 1 They, they'll let you keep believing something. As long as you're, like, moving and
00:12:48.236 Speaker 1 trying, you'll eventually get there. And but sometimes, sometimes it was exactly
00:12:53.096 Speaker 1 what you thought. [laughs] Uh, so keep going, man. I'm really also... It's really
00:12:57.196 Speaker 1 cool to hear that.
00:12:58.776 Speaker 2 Yeah, I pr- I appreciate that perspective, and, uh, yeah, I, the way, I mean, the
00:13:03.296 Speaker 2 way I'm sharing it, I kind of share it fac- facetiously because I'm like... I, I
00:13:07.896 Speaker 2 think even the way I asked it, I thought it was funny. Um, given my history and the,
00:13:14.535 Speaker 2 uh, associations I have and had with that figure, uh,
00:13:22.276 Speaker 2 I, I just like to kind of play these things tongue in cheek, you know? And so... But
00:13:27.216 Speaker 2 that's interesting though too, like the, you know, all of these, that similarly
00:13:30.296 Speaker 2 started with me. I think my first pings were reaching out to the earth. Um,
00:13:36.176 Speaker 2 hmm.
00:13:37.216 Speaker 1 Hmm.
00:13:38.236 Speaker 2 Yeah. Curious to see how it all unfolds. Yeah.
00:13:40.176 Speaker 1 Earth is hooking us up, man. That's what I think.
00:13:42.096 Speaker 2 [laughs] Yeah.
00:13:45.036 Speaker 1 Being a bro.
00:13:46.916 Speaker 2 All right, man. Yeah. Well, that's, uh, cool pre- I, I enjoyed this preamble. Um,
00:13:52.496 Speaker 2 and yeah, I was curious to hear where you're gonna take us today. Where, where are
00:13:55.016 Speaker 2 we gonna dive in? How should we begin?
00:13:58.436 Speaker 1 Okay.
00:14:00.276 Speaker 1 Um, so it's gonna start with, uh, the next day after, uh, personal stories. Um,
00:14:06.276 Speaker 1 and then this, this whole narrative experience, you know, besides us talking about
00:14:10.836 Speaker 1 it and, like, what it means and all that, is going to be... It's gonna cover a
00:14:14.576 Speaker 1 four-month span. This is a long span. This part of the
00:14:20.236 Speaker 1 story gets hard because it's not a story. Like, it's my life. All of this happened.
00:14:24.696 Speaker 1 So, like, disclaimer, like, some of these ideas are hard or unsettling. You should
00:14:29.296 Speaker 1 get it by now if you're listening to this. [laughs] Like, you've listened to the
00:14:31.896 Speaker 1 first episode. It doesn't stop being like that. It doesn't stop being, like, oh,
00:14:37.756 Speaker 1 profound. You know, you think you're ready for these ideas, but when you actually
00:14:41.076 Speaker 1 take them seriously, as I have been forced to,
00:14:44.616 Speaker 1 it is unsettling, like, by its very nature. Like, it shatters you. That's the word
00:14:48.216 Speaker 1 I've used. I get shattered over and over again, how I thought the world was, who I
00:14:52.176 Speaker 1 thought I was,
00:14:54.476 Speaker 1 and in a way I can't ignore. And in a small way, this is happening to anybody who's
00:14:58.856 Speaker 1 listening to this and taking it in. So, you know, if you don't like that, [laughs]
00:15:02.716 Speaker 1 you don't want awesome things to happen to you or to know how reality works, like,
00:15:07.796 Speaker 1 you should probably stop listening to this [laughs] because it is getting in. It's
00:15:12.956 Speaker 1 changing you. And it's, like Joshua, it's going to start happening to you if you
00:15:17.256 Speaker 1 want it. Um, so disclaimer there, because we're gonna be talking about some more of
00:15:22.436 Speaker 1 my shattering. Um, and then, uh, yeah, we'll have a lot to get into. Um,
00:15:28.596 Speaker 1 stop me if you have any questions or anything, but I'll just dive right into it. So
00:15:31.236 Speaker 1 we'll pick up for where we left off. And the reason this covers four months is
00:15:34.316 Speaker 1 there's no way, there is no, like, single through line through this. It's like, it's
00:15:38.596 Speaker 1 a web. Like, 100-
00:15:40.076 Speaker 2 This is four months after the first experience we talked about in the first episode
00:15:43.036 Speaker 1 ... So we'll follow up. The, the stories I'm telling today cover four months, right?
00:15:46.876 Speaker 2 Okay.
00:15:46.916 Speaker 1 Because it is a cohesive thread. I am weaving a cohesive thread out of many
00:15:52.136 Speaker 1 different things that happened to make sense of it. But as I was going through it,
00:15:56.036 Speaker 1 like, 50 different things are happening to me. I have no idea what's going on. I'm
00:15:58.896 Speaker 1 trying to find out what's true and what isn't. Some of them are dead ends. Many of
00:16:02.516 Speaker 1 these ideas are related and cool. They're like side quests.
00:16:05.736 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:16:05.736 Speaker 1 It's like this web. It's not a clean path. I tell it that way so that it makes sense
00:16:10.916 Speaker 1 and people understand the ideas. But it was nothing like this to experience it where
00:16:15.656 Speaker 1 cherry-pick the high points and you can see, oh, one, A leads to B and B leads to C.
00:16:20.996 Speaker 1 In reality, I took 50 wrong paths. Some of them ran into each other. I became
00:16:25.336 Speaker 1 depressed [laughs] and did a bunch of stuff that didn't work. Like, it was a mess.
00:16:31.176 Speaker 1 It was a huge tangled mess that I slowly untangled, and that was what it was
00:16:34.796 Speaker 1 actually like to live it. So I'm gonna tell it as a cohesive story, and in later
00:16:39.036 Speaker 1 episodes, we're gonna come back and we're gonna pluck more threads [laughs] out of
00:16:43.276 Speaker 1 it. And they, they all say something interesting. But today, uh, we're gonna talk
00:16:48.436 Speaker 1 about what it was like coming back from that experience. So we'll start the very
00:16:52.756 Speaker 1 next day. Um, the very next day, um, I'm just, like, glowing,
00:16:58.856 Speaker 1 right? So I am dead tired. [laughs] I have gotten very little sleep, but I am just,
00:17:04.516 Speaker 1 like,
00:17:06.336 Speaker 1 I am so alive. I am just, like, looking at things and at people, and I don't have
00:17:11.176 Speaker 1 the experience of like, "Ooh, I'm everything" anymore. I'm, I'm Steven. I'm Steven
00:17:15.656 Speaker 1 in my pajamas, and I'm very tired. But I know this just happened. Like, I'm just
00:17:21.416 Speaker 1 like, I know that I'm not gonna ever go back to the same shape. But I also have
00:17:27.056 Speaker 1 this, like, sinking, like, slow concern that, like,
00:17:32.516 Speaker 1 what if I go back to normal? Like, is this it? Like, I don't... Like, it's so
00:17:37.636 Speaker 1 strange that something this wild could happen to you, but that's, like, your next
00:17:41.336 Speaker 1 thought. And no matter how many times these peak experiences happen, that does
00:17:45.136 Speaker 1 usually come a couple hours later, maybe the next day. It's like, "Hmm, I don't
00:17:49.716 Speaker 1 wanna go back." [laughs] I want it to be like that. Um, but you do go back,
00:17:56.236 Speaker 1 and that's how it works. You, you rubber band, or it's like, um, something... If
00:18:00.556 Speaker 1 you've ever done one of those things where you throw the coin down, like, the
00:18:03.056 Speaker 1 funnel, and it, like-
00:18:04.376 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:18:04.536 Speaker 1 ... goes like this-
00:18:05.856 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm
00:18:05.976 Speaker 1 ... and it eventually falls in, it can get an elliptic orbit where it goes really
00:18:09.696 Speaker 1 close to the center of the hole, and then it rockets way back out again. And so it
00:18:14.576 Speaker 1 looks like it's about to go in. You're like, "Oh, man," and, but then it doesn't But
00:18:18.956 Speaker 1 ultimately, it does go in, right? It's just, it looks like these huge arcs where you
00:18:23.896 Speaker 1 rubber band, you get really close, and then you rubber band far away. But every time
00:18:27.856 Speaker 1 you try, you get a little closer, and then you f- go away again. Um, so that's what
00:18:33.256 Speaker 1 I'm gonna start describing. But before all that, more good stuff, right? So we're
00:18:39.156 Speaker 1 coming back from my parents' house, and my wife drives. Uh, she always drives. And I
00:18:44.636 Speaker 1 am dead tired. Uh, [laughs] I told her very little. [laughs] I told her I'd had some
00:18:50.016 Speaker 1 experiences. She's kind of on board at this point. Like, she knows. But she doesn't
00:18:54.176 Speaker 1 know. Nobody knows. Like, I haven't told anybody. [laughs] What, who am I supposed
00:18:58.536 Speaker 1 to tell them? Like, this... I'm fresh off of this realization. Like, "Oh, I have a
00:19:04.036 Speaker 1 soul family, and they're here, and they're alway- [laughs] always watching me." And
00:19:09.596 Speaker 1 then so I'm laying... Or I lean my seat back, and I'm just dozing off, and I can,
00:19:15.936 Speaker 1 I can feel her, my mother. I can feel her again, just, like, sitting in the back of
00:19:21.936 Speaker 1 my mind. Same presence, just sort of showing up, kind of like just somebody standing
00:19:25.836 Speaker 1 there waiting to talk to you. Nobody's physically present. Nobody says anything. Um,
00:19:30.716 Speaker 1 just, like, waiting there. And I just start to smile, and, like, [laughs] and then
00:19:36.676 Speaker 1 I, I hear her, like verbal thoughts. Um, again, it sounds like my thoughts. Um, I
00:19:42.136 Speaker 1 rarely get audio, but sometimes, um... And the thoughts are, "I
00:19:48.016 Speaker 1 can tell you have a lot of questions." And a lot of this is intuitive, right? It's
00:19:51.316 Speaker 1 just, you just know what they're saying. But some of it is verbal thoughts. "I can
00:19:55.596 Speaker 1 tell you have a lot of questions." And there's just this huge sense of a smile, a
00:19:59.276 Speaker 1 smile, like, the size of a horizon. Like, [laughs] it's like this is very exciting.
00:20:02.956 Speaker 1 Like, I can... "I know that wasn't enough for you. I know you. [laughs] You have a
00:20:07.876 Speaker 1 lot. You wanna ask questions all day. Like, you're not done." Like, and I'm like, "I
00:20:13.196 Speaker 1 have so many questions, and..." But I know it's not the time, right? Um,
00:20:19.356 Speaker 1 and I am... [laughs] So I'm just sitting there with the presence, and she's just,
00:20:22.656 Speaker 1 like, waiting. And, but it doesn't go away. Like, it's a five-hour car ride, and
00:20:28.096 Speaker 1 she's sitting there the whole time. And I, [laughs] I'm just smiling 'cause I'm
00:20:31.896 Speaker 1 like,
00:20:33.676 Speaker 1 I know what it means. It means, "Hey, you know, when you get a chance, when you get
00:20:38.416 Speaker 1 a free moment, like, attend to this. Like, check in with me. I'll wait. I'm not
00:20:43.956 Speaker 1 going anywhere. I got nothing but time. And when you have a moment, talk to me."
00:20:48.296 Speaker 1 [laughs] Uh, right? So I'm sitting in the car. Um,
00:20:55.556 Speaker 1 I'm reading my journal notes because some of it was... [laughs] Here we go. Yeah.
00:21:00.876 Speaker 1 While I'm sitting in the car, a bunch of synchronicities start to happen, 'cause why
00:21:03.696 Speaker 1 not, right? [laughs]
00:21:05.916 Speaker 3 [laughs]
00:21:07.316 Speaker 1 So doubt starts to seep in. You wouldn't think it would, right? Uh, but it does. It
00:21:12.396 Speaker 1 does. Am I... Is this what I thought it was? Like, it's the human condition. I don't
00:21:17.016 Speaker 1 know. Uh, it just, it just happens, right? So I'm looking out the window, and I'm
00:21:21.256 Speaker 1 sort of smiling, and I feel this immense sense of gratitude. Again, I wrote, "For
00:21:25.276 Speaker 1 having been created," uh, [laughs] "for getting to be me," like, regardless of how
00:21:30.556 Speaker 1 it all works. Like, I'm just thankful. Like, and I, I just like, I'm so tired. I'm
00:21:35.576 Speaker 1 just, like, blubbering in my head. [laughs] Just like, "Oh, thank you for creating
00:21:38.916 Speaker 1 me." [laughs] All the things you might say, right? And I look out the window, and I
00:21:43.936 Speaker 1 see a billboard, and it starts with thank you, like, right after I say that. And I,
00:21:48.196 Speaker 1 I s- I just laugh, like, ha ha. Like, I know how this works, synchronicity, so ha
00:21:52.136 Speaker 1 ha. [laughs] And then, uh, as I'm looking, the next billboard comes out, and it's a
00:21:57.956 Speaker 1 hospital billboard, and it's a parent holding a child, and it says, "Thanks for the
00:22:02.316 Speaker 1 gift of life." [laughs] Just... All right, now I'm, I'm like, "Oh, this is pretty
00:22:07.096 Speaker 1 good." All right. [laughs] And then there's another one. It's a customer service
00:22:11.656 Speaker 1 billboard, because I had been wondering right before that, like I just said, am I
00:22:15.676 Speaker 1 actually talking to anyone? Like... And it's a customer support billboard for
00:22:19.436 Speaker 1 telemarketing support, and it says, "What if you wanna talk to a real person?"
00:22:23.396 Speaker 1 [laughs] And I'm just like-
00:22:24.856 Speaker 3 [laughs]
00:22:25.956 Speaker 1 I'm like, all right, now I'm getting cracked up. And [laughs] the next one
00:22:31.816 Speaker 1 was a, [laughs] an Arby's Roast Beef one, and I laughed pretty good at that.
00:22:35.715 Speaker 3 [laughs]
00:22:36.036 Speaker 1 And then this food truck pulls in front of us, and I'm like, all right, I guess
00:22:40.776 Speaker 1 that's it. Um, it says, uh, the brand, I guess it's a,
00:22:46.756 Speaker 1 like, a Hispanic food brand. I don't know what it's called. But it's called FUD, is
00:22:51.556 Speaker 1 the name of the, the company. And for those who aren't aware, the acronym means
00:22:55.176 Speaker 1 fear, uncertainty, and doubt. And the, the, the slogan for the company was,
00:23:01.296 Speaker 1 "Welcome to the family." And I'm just like, all right, this is, this is too good.
00:23:05.796 Speaker 1 [laughs] This is great. Um, that was just fun. So I get
00:23:11.676 Speaker 1 home, and some people fly in from Spain, uh, like, really old friends
00:23:17.696 Speaker 1 of Amanda and the kids, and, like, they have to go immediately. Even though they
00:23:21.336 Speaker 1 literally just got home, she's like, "We're only in town for a few hours. You wanna
00:23:24.716 Speaker 1 play and get together with the kids?" And she's like, "Okay, yeah." So they leave
00:23:27.876 Speaker 1 immediately, gone. [snaps fingers] And suddenly I have the afternoon to myself. I'm
00:23:31.736 Speaker 1 like, wow, what are the chances? I just get a smile, just a smile in return, like,
00:23:36.316 Speaker 1 ha. [laughs] Somebody orchestrated that or timed it. I don't know. It was
00:23:42.296 Speaker 1 so weird how that happened. Like, literally the moment they come in the door,
00:23:45.476 Speaker 1 they're like, "Oh, we gotta go." I'm like, "Who does that?" Like, why didn't she
00:23:48.276 Speaker 1 just say no? Like, [laughs] I don't know.
00:23:50.996 Speaker 3 Hmm.
00:23:51.056 Speaker 1 So the house is quiet, and they're gone. I'm like, okay. Um, I'm like, I'm
00:23:56.896 Speaker 1 nervous, [laughs] as you can imagine. I'm like, I don't know. Okay, I guess I'll
00:24:02.696 Speaker 1 go lay down and pretend to take a nap. It's hard for me to take a nap, so it's kinda
00:24:07.316 Speaker 1 like a meditation, so I'll just lay down. [laughs] And, uh, so I'm gonna read from
00:24:13.036 Speaker 1 my journal for this part. And, um,
00:24:17.316 Speaker 1 so she just starts talking. Like, I lay down, and not long after, I close my eyes.
00:24:21.356 Speaker 1 I'm not asleep Like that presence just comes forward again, and it's just like this
00:24:26.952 Speaker 1 sense of like love and, um,
00:24:29.532 Speaker 1 [laughs] and gratitude for me.
00:24:35.832 Speaker 1 And, uh, she's very excited to talk to me. This- so we have a conversation for about
00:24:40.312 Speaker 1 30 minutes, and it starts the same way. Like, I can't believe it's happening. Like,
00:24:45.512 Speaker 1 I've been doing like piecemeal telepathy up until this point, but I'd been
00:24:48.552 Speaker 1 struggling, you know, to believe it, and like I'm trying to piece together a story,
00:24:51.972 Speaker 1 but this is like crystal clear. It's not like I don't have visuals or anything like
00:24:57.112 Speaker 1 I did the night before, but I am not making anyone talk. These thoughts are getting
00:25:01.872 Speaker 1 inserted into my head. [laughs] Like, and I'm just like... I just stop talking,
00:25:07.832 Speaker 1 like, 'cause I'm like waiting. Like I'm forcing myself to stop thinking 'cause I
00:25:12.152 Speaker 1 wanna see if, like, I'm imagining it or not. I'm trying not to do anything, and the
00:25:16.092 Speaker 1 thoughts just keep coming. Just a smile. The same thing, basically. "You gotta talk
00:25:20.272 Speaker 1 to me. Yes, it's really me. Hello." [laughs] Don't... Just a sense of like, "We're
00:25:25.892 Speaker 1 good. Like, just calm down. Like, it's fine. Y- this is happening. We can talk. We
00:25:30.652 Speaker 1 can have a conversation. You don't need to seize up. Nobody's gonna hurt you. You're
00:25:35.152 Speaker 1 all right." I'm like, "Okay. All right, yeah. [laughs] I'm cool."
00:25:38.992 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:25:39.232 Speaker 1 And then she smiles. Again, there's no visuals. This is all intuitive. It's just the
00:25:42.632 Speaker 1 feeling of a smile. And she says, "How about this?" I think basic- y- I'm, like,
00:25:49.052 Speaker 1 flipping out. I'm, I'm on the verge of shock. I'm very happy, but I am so tired. She
00:25:53.852 Speaker 1 says, "How about this? I will give you five questions. You can ask any five
00:25:58.572 Speaker 1 questions you want, and I will answer them." And I'm like, "Whoa." [laughs] And I'm
00:26:03.452 Speaker 1 like... "Take your time to decide what they are. There's no rush. I will answer them
00:26:08.672 Speaker 1 all, like, completely. Like, don't worry about it. I'm not going anywhere. Like,
00:26:13.432 Speaker 1 take your time. Figure out what you want." So I take a couple minutes. I'm like,
00:26:16.192 Speaker 1 "Hmm, I gotta hold on. I gotta come up with them all." And I r- rattle through them,
00:26:19.712 Speaker 1 but I can't remember them all. She ends up prompting me with the questions because
00:26:23.152 Speaker 1 [laughs] I forgot them. Uh, but so I come up with my five questions. I'm just gonna
00:26:28.152 Speaker 1 pause right there. Just as a fun exercise for everybody, uh, listening in, imagine
00:26:33.692 Speaker 1 the person who created your soul, ostensibly clearly knows a whole lot more about
00:26:38.332 Speaker 1 reality than you do, says, "Hey, you can ask me any five things you want. Anything.
00:26:43.372 Speaker 1 Open-ended." What five questions do you choose? I used to think this was a fun
00:26:48.632 Speaker 1 exercise of, well, what if you ever met God? This is not God, by the way. But these
00:26:53.032 Speaker 1 c- close enough for me, right? This is the person who created my soul. This is, they
00:26:55.772 Speaker 1 clearly know a lot, right? So it's, it is analogous. It's exciting. Like, you never
00:27:01.632 Speaker 1 think that you're gonna get to talk to your creator, even if it's a proximal
00:27:04.392 Speaker 1 creator, like who clearly knows a lot about what's going on. What, [laughs] what
00:27:09.012 Speaker 1 questions would you actually ask them? Because it might not actually be a
00:27:11.972 Speaker 1 hypothetical.
00:27:15.092 Speaker 1 Um, but I'll pause right there before I, I tell you the questions.
00:27:19.432 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:27:21.732 Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know what I would ask. I think I would need some time.
00:27:24.632 Speaker 1 Yeah. [laughs] No pressure, right?
00:27:27.012 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:27:27.352 Speaker 1 Like, oh, no. [laughs]
00:27:29.212 Speaker 2 It just makes me think that
00:27:31.992 Speaker 2 my whole reality is framed in this
00:27:35.752 Speaker 2 society, this language,
00:27:39.252 Speaker 2 uh, this life. But
00:27:43.512 Speaker 2 to have a conversation like that with somebody who is beyond, it's like, how
00:27:48.052 Speaker 2 [laughs] what would I even want to know that might be relevant to anything that I
00:27:53.392 Speaker 2 can grok, you know? [laughs]
00:27:57.952 Speaker 1 You want the winning lottery numbers? That'd be so lame. She would've been-
00:28:00.952 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. [laughs]
00:28:01.352 Speaker 1 ... so disappointed in me. She would've been so disappointed in me.
00:28:03.732 Speaker 2 I didn't even think of that. [laughs]
00:28:05.612 Speaker 1 I didn't e- I didn't even care. What's the point?
00:28:09.052 Speaker 2 I mean, some of them I'm like...
00:28:12.772 Speaker 2 I mean, I'd be curious about
00:28:16.192 Speaker 2 why I'm here.
00:28:18.152 Speaker 1 Mm.
00:28:18.232 Speaker 2 Why I chose this incarnation. What my mission is.
00:28:25.272 Speaker 2 Who my
00:28:28.172 Speaker 2 relations are, my soul family relations are in this life.
00:28:33.652 Speaker 2 But I also feel like
00:28:37.552 Speaker 2 I am coming into more and more clarity around those, just in,
00:28:45.792 Speaker 2 just in being aware of the patterns of my life and as I've healed and transmuted
00:28:51.392 Speaker 2 some of the traumas and, uh,
00:28:57.072 Speaker 2 disentangled
00:29:00.592 Speaker 2 the thought systems I had been trapped within.
00:29:05.632 Speaker 2 So I kinda feel like maybe I don't want to know the answers 'cause part of the-
00:29:09.252 Speaker 1 Yeah
00:29:09.352 Speaker 2 ... this life is-
00:29:09.872 Speaker 1 This is what went through your head, and then you said-
00:29:11.692 Speaker 2 Like the reason I s- the, sorry, the reason I incarnated was to, like, forget-
00:29:17.832 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
00:29:18.132 Speaker 2 ... and give myself a fun little puzzle to solve. [laughs] So if somebody
00:29:24.112 Speaker 2 comes through and solves it for me, [laughs] what's the point, you know?
00:29:28.312 Speaker 1 It's not so easy, is it, to come up with these questions.
00:29:30.712 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:29:30.712 Speaker 1 You're like, "Oh, hold on a second."
00:29:32.412 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:29:32.412 Speaker 1 "I actually don't want some of these." And some of them you're like, "Yeah, it would
00:29:35.252 Speaker 1 actually ruin things," or like, "Well, I could get that another way," or, "I'm gonna
00:29:39.212 Speaker 1 find out eventually anyway," so.
00:29:40.832 Speaker 2 Hmm. Yeah, so what did you ask?
00:29:44.072 Speaker 1 So I decide to come up with an array of questions, and I decide, I run through that
00:29:48.832 Speaker 1 same calculus, and I figure out, okay, what really matters to me is generally
00:29:54.352 Speaker 1 personal stuff, right? That's [laughs] at the end of the day, it's meaning and our
00:29:58.972 Speaker 1 relationships and how we feel about each other. Like, that's what matters the most
00:30:02.172 Speaker 1 to me. Um, so I ask, here are the five questions. One, why did you create
00:30:08.012 Speaker 1 me? Two, how old am I? Three, can I meet you?
00:30:14.632 Speaker 1 Four, what does this symbol mean? And I sh- send like a visual impression of a
00:30:19.312 Speaker 1 symbol that I'd been seeing a lot.
00:30:21.452 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:30:22.192 Speaker 1 Like seeing it. Um, and then five, because I got to five, and I could ask the big
00:30:28.020 Speaker 1 questions, the same lame-ass questions everybody asks. Where did the universe start?
00:30:33.120 Speaker 1 Blah, blah, blah, who cares? No. I'm like, "Screw that. I'm not wasting my last
00:30:37.220 Speaker 1 question on that." What were your first words to me? It's a fun one. Yeah.
00:30:43.200 Speaker 1 I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna throw in a fun one. I'm gonna do a curveball.
00:30:46.020 Speaker 1 I'm not gonna ask the lame question everybody asks."
00:30:48.240 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:30:50.640 Speaker 1 So here's the edited version of the answers, 'cause we gotta move on here.
00:30:53.240 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:30:53.820 Speaker 1 There's no time for the sappy stuff.
00:30:57.040 Speaker 1 I'm kidding. This is what it's all about. This is the entire point of being alive-
00:31:00.460 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:31:01.000 Speaker 1 ... and doing any of this. Um, so here's, um, here's what I was willing to document,
00:31:06.100 Speaker 1 even that it's an edited version, 'cause I mean, some of it's personal. [laughs] It-
00:31:09.900 Speaker 1 it just is. But I am gonna share it because it's awesome. So why did you create me?
00:31:14.380 Speaker 1 One, I asked for a miracle. I asked for a child, and I got you.
00:31:20.440 Speaker 1 I got two. So me and my twin sister.
00:31:25.480 Speaker 1 How old am I? Three. What does that mean?
00:31:29.020 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:31:29.580 Speaker 1 You tell me. What do you think that means?
00:31:31.080 Speaker 2 Uh-
00:31:31.260 Speaker 1 I never got a clear answer. I could only guess
00:31:33.620 Speaker 2 ... three ages of the universe. [laughs] Three life cycles.
00:31:38.660 Speaker 1 Cycles of the Milky Way, or like lives maybe.
00:31:41.220 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:31:41.600 Speaker 1 Like incarnations, maybe.
00:31:42.880 Speaker 2 It could be.
00:31:43.080 Speaker 1 Like three lives. Reincarnation.
00:31:44.820 Speaker 2 Three. Three.
00:31:45.160 Speaker 1 I don't know. How do you measure that?
00:31:46.660 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:31:47.480 Speaker 1 Three. That was such a straight answer, too. It was so fast. Like, all of these
00:31:51.560 Speaker 1 answers are like, bam. You don't have to guess.
00:31:53.620 Speaker 2 Well, can I give another impression?
00:31:54.860 Speaker 1 Like, boom, here's the answer.
00:31:57.080 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:31:57.180 Speaker 2 I like, I like, uh, you know, growing up, you kind of, I, I feel like, uh,
00:32:03.800 Speaker 2 uh, I should be further along. I should be, like, closer to enlightenment. I should
00:32:09.720 Speaker 2 have more wisdom. I should be more successful or something like that, or
00:32:15.260 Speaker 2 more integrated. And, uh, three is like, uh, you're a child.
00:32:20.320 Speaker 2 [laughs] You're young.
00:32:23.740 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:32:24.200 Speaker 2 And so it kinda gives the pr- like, takes the pressure off, like, okay. Yeah.
00:32:29.260 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what she said.
00:32:30.260 Speaker 2 I'm just three.
00:32:30.640 Speaker 1 I am young-ish.
00:32:32.080 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:32:32.920 Speaker 1 And in other conversations with people who usually don't bother to give their names,
00:32:37.380 Speaker 1 but clearly know more than I do, just sort of smile, and I once got the line, "I
00:32:42.560 Speaker 1 love young souls." I'm like, "What am I supposed to say?" I can't, I can't, like,
00:32:47.900 Speaker 1 say anything rude in response 'cause that only validates what you just told me.
00:32:51.620 Speaker 1 [laughs] Just, ugh. Whatever.
00:32:54.960 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:32:57.080 Speaker 1 Anyway. All right. So can I meet you? All right, this one's interesting.
00:33:03.440 Speaker 1 Um, so she says, "Yes." And then I'm like, "Okay."
00:33:08.660 Speaker 1 [laughs] A- and,
00:33:12.220 Speaker 1 and I say... She says, "Soon." I'm like, "How soon?" No, that happens later,
00:33:16.400 Speaker 1 actually. So she's like, actually, she says, "Open your, open your eyes." I'm like,
00:33:20.120 Speaker 1 "Uh, okay." [laughs] Let me just do that. I'm looking at my ceiling. You know what I
00:33:25.660 Speaker 1 see?
00:33:27.760 Speaker 1 Nothing. I see nothing. And I'm like, "Oh, my God. I am so dumb." Like,
00:33:33.860 Speaker 1 what, what are... I, I've totally lost it now, and I get this immediate sense of
00:33:38.800 Speaker 1 reprimand. Like, "Listen up. [laughs] Just because you need to stop doing that. Just
00:33:44.600 Speaker 1 because one thing didn't work doesn't mean it was all a lie." Like, it was just an
00:33:49.660 Speaker 1 immense frustration with me. Like, this is not the first time I've been through this
00:33:53.620 Speaker 1 one. [laughs]
00:33:54.640 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:33:54.760 Speaker 1 It's like, ugh. She says, "It's not always possible." And I said, "All right. Soon?"
00:34:00.040 Speaker 1 She's like, "Yes." I say, "How soon?" "Very soon," [laughs] is the response. I'm
00:34:04.680 Speaker 1 like, "All right, we'll move on. We'll move on."
00:34:06.240 Speaker 2 How soon? Three. [laughs] How soon? Four. [laughs]
00:34:10.100 Speaker 1 Like, all right. I'll let it go. But I had this huge just, like, dip, and just like,
00:34:14.720 Speaker 1 "Oh, my God." So you can see the doubt. Just like one miss, one swing and a miss,
00:34:18.420 Speaker 1 and it was all fake.
00:34:19.820 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:34:19.860 Speaker 1 And like, how frustrating that must be on the other end. Uh, so the fourth one about
00:34:24.980 Speaker 1 this symbol, we can skip over that. Only, the only thing I'll, I'll mention is that
00:34:28.820 Speaker 1 it has some relation to some higher self.
00:34:32.500 Speaker 2 Is this the symbol you showed me?
00:34:35.760 Speaker 1 I don't know.
00:34:36.360 Speaker 2 In another context? The eye-
00:34:39.560 Speaker 1 No
00:34:39.640 Speaker 2 ... with the ser- the serpentite
00:34:40.539 Speaker 1 We'll talk about that one at the end if we get, if we get to it. [laughs]
00:34:43.640 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:34:44.539 Speaker 1 We'll see. Um, and then the fifth one, um, is mostly personal,
00:34:50.960 Speaker 1 uh, but I will mention, which is, "What were your first words to me?" But she just
00:34:55.680 Speaker 1 says that they weren't words, but it was like an exclamation. Was surprised that her
00:35:00.460 Speaker 1 request and that her prayer for a child was answered, and that...
00:35:06.400 Speaker 1 And I got imagery, and I got the feeling, the feeling of what it was like when we
00:35:10.700 Speaker 1 showed up, and just, like, extreme surprise. And I laughed, and I
00:35:16.680 Speaker 1 cried [laughs] 'cause I was feeling it. Like, I was feeling what she felt, I guess,
00:35:21.060 Speaker 1 when I was born. I'm like, I don't know. Um, I'm like,
00:35:26.680 Speaker 1 and I just had this sense that [laughs] you're not the only one who is
00:35:32.680 Speaker 1 surprised when miracles actually come true. Like, this is, this is true for us, too.
00:35:36.780 Speaker 1 Like, you think we know everything. Like, we know a lot, but we still don't know
00:35:41.840 Speaker 1 every- not even close, and this one was truly a mira- it was a complete surprise.
00:35:46.640 Speaker 1 Didn't expect to actually get a child [laughs] uh, in this way. And so I just
00:35:52.160 Speaker 1 thought that was so touching, is that, oh, this is true for you, too. Like, [laughs]
00:35:57.000 Speaker 1 you have moments where you can't believe this is actually happening. [laughs]
00:36:01.180 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:36:01.220 Speaker 1 And you have no idea how it happened. Um, and I thought that was extremely touching.
00:36:09.600 Speaker 1 So that's that. Uh, but anyway, we, she takes her time answering all of it. There
00:36:13.400 Speaker 1 was no, there was no rush. Like, if I had questions or follow-ups, there wasn't,
00:36:18.940 Speaker 1 like, a, like, a trick or like, "Oh, you used your question. That was your third
00:36:22.480 Speaker 1 wish." Like, "Nope." There was no problem. Like, "Got nothing but time. I'll answer
00:36:26.340 Speaker 1 whatever you have." And like, "Do you understand that? Do you know what I mean? Let
00:36:29.560 Speaker 1 me show you." And then just sort of, I'm getting pretty burned out again. It's like,
00:36:34.684 Speaker 1 okay, you know, bye, I love you. And that was it. Just fades out. I'm just laying in
00:36:39.004 Speaker 1 bed again.
00:36:41.364 Speaker 1 And so after that, um, that night, either that night or the next night, I can't
00:36:47.144 Speaker 1 recall, uh, I'm on a walk and I'm talking to some people from the Mindsight
00:36:50.684 Speaker 1 training. It's, you know, when I learned to see without, without eyes, like the, the
00:36:53.924 Speaker 1 month or two before, whatever. [laughs] Let's just gloss over that. I haven't even
00:36:56.844 Speaker 1 gotten around to that stuff.
00:36:58.404 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:36:58.584 Speaker 1 I'm talking to some friends, and I mention my UFO experiences to them, and, you
00:37:04.424 Speaker 1 know, they're excited about it, and I, I talk about them. And, you know, they, they
00:37:09.064 Speaker 1 changed another topic, and it's nighttime, and I look, and I see,
00:37:14.824 Speaker 1 uh, I see a light on a neighbor's porch, and I'm looking at it, and I have the
00:37:19.904 Speaker 1 thought, "Huh, that looks like a person made of light. I wonder if I'll ever see
00:37:24.364 Speaker 1 someone like that." [laughs] What a... And then I just start laughing. I'm like,
00:37:29.704 Speaker 1 "What the hell?" Like, those aren't thoughts that I think. Like, come on. [laughs]
00:37:33.384 Speaker 1 You need to be a little more subtle than that. Like, that was definitely not my
00:37:37.404 Speaker 1 thought. But it sounds exactly like your thought. There's no distinguishing factor
00:37:41.544 Speaker 1 other than the fact that it's like, this was clearly an inception. You guys have
00:37:45.904 Speaker 1 seen the movie Inception. That was what that was. [laughs] It's like, ah, I didn't
00:37:51.584 Speaker 1 think that. Well, I- it happened to me, and I just laugh. I'm like, what a weird
00:37:56.024 Speaker 1 thing to think. And I turn the corner, and I look up, and in the sky, I see a bright
00:38:01.124 Speaker 1 white ball of light. It's maybe a quarter of a mile up, less than that,
00:38:07.384 Speaker 1 and it's just sitting there, and it's floating slightly towards me. And I get this
00:38:10.844 Speaker 1 immediate sense of, like, smugness. Like, sort of loving smugness and just, see?
00:38:16.484 Speaker 1 It's the same per- it's the same feeling as with Soul Mother from the day before or
00:38:21.924 Speaker 1 that morning. Same sort of feeling of who it is and just, just a smugness like,
00:38:26.384 Speaker 1 "See? I told you. I told you you would see me." [laughs] And then it fades out,
00:38:32.444 Speaker 1 just straight to black. No sound, no running lights, just a white ball of light. And
00:38:37.504 Speaker 1 it's, [laughs] I don't know, a couple feet across, but it's pretty high up. Like,
00:38:41.324 Speaker 1 then it's gone. I'm like, and I'm like, oh my God. I'm on the phone with these
00:38:45.904 Speaker 1 people, so like, [laughs] I'm trying not to freak out. And I'm like, wow. And I'm
00:38:51.664 Speaker 1 just like,
00:38:54.504 Speaker 1 thank you. Like, I really needed to see that. Thank you. I really... You wouldn't
00:38:58.964 Speaker 1 think it, and it's not good to need physical evidence. This is something we're gonna
00:39:03.664 Speaker 1 return to over and over again. It's not good to rely on needing physical evidence,
00:39:07.684 Speaker 1 and you have to learn to trust your inner senses. That's a-- Because it's, those are
00:39:11.704 Speaker 1 true. But this was really a gift. I needed this validation of like, oh,
00:39:17.604 Speaker 1 something in the physical world. [laughs] You w- more than just synchronicities. I
00:39:22.524 Speaker 1 needed to see something, someone, I suppose. Um, and like, I needed to see that it
00:39:28.164 Speaker 1 was true. Just some part of the human brain needs to connect those dots, and so
00:39:33.924 Speaker 1 that's what happened.
00:39:38.364 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:39:41.244 Speaker 2 I'm in awe of these experiences.
00:39:42.704 Speaker 1 [laughs]
00:39:43.104 Speaker 2 A little, little jealous. [laughs]
00:39:45.184 Speaker 1 Uh, well, you can have your own version of it.
00:39:47.064 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:39:47.104 Speaker 1 But these are peak moments. So let's not rest on our laurels too long here, because
00:39:52.524 Speaker 1 the next week is very, very much the opposite. I have to go back to work now.
00:39:58.004 Speaker 2 Well, hold on, hold on. I just wanna, I just wanna sit with this for a moment.
00:40:01.924 Speaker 1 Yeah, sit with it.
00:40:02.644 Speaker 2 'Cause-
00:40:03.164 Speaker 1 Because I'm about to shatter your-
00:40:05.184 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:40:05.244 Speaker 1 ... your happiness and your warm feelings. [laughs] 'Cause that's what happened to
00:40:10.024 Speaker 1 me. Feel free to ask any questions before we depart this wonderful place.
00:40:15.484 Speaker 2 Well, I just was reflecting that
00:40:19.104 Speaker 2 what you just shared is really profound, that we don't need to, we shouldn't need to
00:40:25.304 Speaker 2 rely upon physical evidence.
00:40:30.104 Speaker 2 That is completely contradictory to anything I'd ever been
00:40:36.084 Speaker 2 taught to believe about how
00:40:40.664 Speaker 2 we make sense of reality and how we find truth according to
00:40:48.004 Speaker 2 a materialist paradigm, uh, sci- scientific method.
00:40:54.764 Speaker 2 So
00:40:58.104 Speaker 2 there's a lot of unlearning that needs to happen that I, I need to experience more
00:41:02.284 Speaker 2 of. Coming to trust more and more of these experiences. Speaking with you
00:41:08.324 Speaker 2 validates them, hearing about your experiences.
00:41:12.924 Speaker 2 Uh,
00:41:15.504 Speaker 2 and I think circling back to the topic of this conversation, what
00:41:21.444 Speaker 2 is real,
00:41:23.844 Speaker 2 is really interesting to, to view from that lens. You know, as I was sharing about
00:41:28.944 Speaker 2 my experiences,
00:41:32.004 Speaker 2 um,
00:41:34.844 Speaker 2 some people say that psychedelic experiences take you to a place that are, that is
00:41:40.584 Speaker 2 more real than real.
00:41:44.344 Speaker 2 And, uh, I've experienced that many times. It's hard to communicate because the
00:41:48.824 Speaker 2 psychedelic experience is framed in our culture as hallucination, you know,
00:41:55.024 Speaker 2 which is not real.
00:41:58.344 Speaker 2 But the lived experience, I think, in the right, in a, you know, in a set and
00:42:03.604 Speaker 2 setting, in a context that supports,
00:42:07.464 Speaker 2 uh, inner exploration and is safe. You know, a lot of people take psychedelics at a
00:42:12.444 Speaker 2 rave or, you know, at a music festival. That's a very different experience from, you
00:42:17.904 Speaker 2 know, creating a safe container, having a guide or, you know, even guiding yourself,
00:42:22.824 Speaker 2 but bringing intention to go inward and explore inward. My perception is that opens
00:42:28.664 Speaker 2 up into the true nature of reality when you can really make proper preparation and,
00:42:34.724 Speaker 2 uh-
00:42:36.776 Speaker 2 There's this whole interior expanse that opened up in my own experience that I was
00:42:42.436 Speaker 2 completely oblivious to from the perception of mundane consciousness, waking
00:42:48.036 Speaker 2 consciousness that we, uh, use to navigate roads and streets
00:42:53.956 Speaker 2 and strangers and business and shopping.
00:42:59.656 Speaker 2 And, uh, yeah, it's just many of those experiences and the ones I talked about at
00:43:02.876 Speaker 2 the beginning of this episode, from a lived experience in my
00:43:08.755 Speaker 2 body, they feel a lot more alive. Like,
00:43:15.136 Speaker 2 imagine all the cells of your body lighting up
00:43:19.776 Speaker 2 or,
00:43:22.896 Speaker 2 yeah, perceiving with sight you didn't know you had, and then
00:43:28.796 Speaker 2 coming back in- to this reality and being like, "Wait, I'm blind."
00:43:32.676 Speaker 2 [laughs] So that's, that's where my mind goes in, in your,
00:43:38.716 Speaker 2 in these reflections and... But also how cool it is, like, I think, you know, I'm-
00:43:43.436 Speaker 2 I've stopped using psychedelics for a couple months now and r- have really been
00:43:48.236 Speaker 2 doing a lot more meditation and creating more int- intention around, um, cultivating
00:43:53.536 Speaker 2 my inner sense and, um, having these kinds of experiences in a sober state
00:44:00.576 Speaker 2 because I want to know that they're really real, you know?
00:44:04.096 Speaker 1 It's different.
00:44:04.336 Speaker 2 I w- And, and I want to integrate that, uh, greater reality, as you called it,
00:44:10.676 Speaker 2 into my lived reality.
00:44:15.016 Speaker 2 So a little ball of light feels like a good, a good little, like, wink. [laughs]
00:44:19.656 Speaker 1 I needed it, right?
00:44:20.956 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:44:21.016 Speaker 1 It was... I mean, this, people would call this a white light orb UFO.
00:44:26.696 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:44:26.796 Speaker 1 I would call this a soul [laughs] manifested physically, right? I would now.
00:44:32.876 Speaker 1 I didn't know that before, but she was talking to me, so, like, it was pretty
00:44:35.736 Speaker 1 obvious that that's what that was. Um, it was big. It wasn't like a little, tiny
00:44:40.256 Speaker 1 ghost orb. Like, this was, ooh, this is luminous. [laughs] This thing's bright. Um,
00:44:46.575 Speaker 1 and it came from, as you mentioned, like, following something that was definitely
00:44:51.136 Speaker 1 not physical, a feeling, a thought, and I followed these breadcrumbs to the point
00:44:56.876 Speaker 1 where eventually I got profound experiences, which you're starting to have, but
00:45:01.236 Speaker 1 those are still felt, right? Those are subjective. Like, they, they're just an
00:45:05.676 Speaker 1 experience, air quotes.
00:45:08.716 Speaker 1 You will eventually always get validation, even physical world validation, and you
00:45:14.596 Speaker 1 should expect it, but you're gonna have to be very patient, and you're gonna have to
00:45:18.676 Speaker 1 sit with what everyone else will think is a stupid idea long enough to see that it
00:45:23.416 Speaker 1 is true.
00:45:23.936 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:45:24.256 Speaker 1 So this is m- middle road where you take it seriously and you follow it, knowing
00:45:29.096 Speaker 1 that you have to hold it lightly because many of these things won't pan out, or
00:45:31.896 Speaker 1 you'll be wrong in a way that, like, teaches you something about yourself. I was
00:45:35.736 Speaker 1 just looking at myself, and that's okay. [laughs] You're, as you now know, you're
00:45:39.156 Speaker 1 always looking at yourself. Um, and so there's this push-pull patience. Like,
00:45:45.116 Speaker 1 okay, I opened my eyes and I saw nothing. Like, when I was laying in bed, I'm like,
00:45:48.416 Speaker 1 "Oh, pfft, it's all fake." [laughs] You can't rubber band this hard or you'll kill
00:45:53.436 Speaker 1 it. You'll crush it. You also can't become so obsessive that, like, you become
00:45:57.456 Speaker 1 delusional because now you're detached from an actual signal, right? You're just
00:46:00.876 Speaker 1 pumping your own signal at yourself. You're living your own delusion now. You're not
00:46:04.676 Speaker 1 actually communicating with anyone or anything. [laughs] So you should expect
00:46:08.916 Speaker 1 accountability and eventual validation, but you're gonna have to be way more patient
00:46:13.556 Speaker 1 than you ever wanted to be for the good stuff. Like, not for the cool experiences.
00:46:18.076 Speaker 1 Those can start happening, but for physical world validation, it takes way longer
00:46:23.536 Speaker 1 than you want it to. [laughs] Um, but it does eventually happen because it's true.
00:46:29.916 Speaker 1 It's the same principles. It's the same place. There's no difference. The spiritual
00:46:33.876 Speaker 1 world or whatever is not separate.
00:46:39.896 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:46:41.876 Speaker 2 So what came to mind is your practice of spinning the psi wheel and-
00:46:47.116 Speaker 1 Oh, damn
00:46:47.816 Speaker 2 ... a psi wheel
00:46:50.616 Speaker 2 is a little, um...
00:46:54.055 Speaker 2 I'll show you mine right here.
00:46:56.096 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:46:57.555 Speaker 2 It's a sponge, and there's a needle, and there's a little bit of, uh, aluminum foil
00:47:01.696 Speaker 2 on top.
00:47:02.456 Speaker 1 It's like a little tent.
00:47:03.076 Speaker 2 And-
00:47:03.356 Speaker 1 Hold it over the top.
00:47:04.256 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:47:04.376 Speaker 1 It spins on it 'cause there's low friction.
00:47:06.436 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. You've shared with me about your practice of learning to spin this thing and
00:47:11.056 Speaker 2 have shared videos of you accomplishing this. Uh, I'm still on the fence whether
00:47:16.636 Speaker 2 those are AI generated or-
00:47:18.396 Speaker 1 Oh, come on.
00:47:19.336 Speaker 2 [laughs] No, I'm just kidding. I believe you. I believe you. [laughs] Um, but you
00:47:23.456 Speaker 2 said that, you know, you had to sit for 30 hours
00:47:28.996 Speaker 2 just staring at this thing, hoping and believing that it's possible before you could
00:47:34.156 Speaker 2 even get it to spin a little bit. And how, like, how long, how
00:47:40.596 Speaker 2 challenging that must be, and I've done a little bit of that just beginning to step
00:47:44.436 Speaker 2 into that, um, practice.
00:47:48.436 Speaker 2 The thought is just like, "This is stupid. Is this possible?" [laughs] It's like, as
00:47:51.716 Speaker 2 I'm sitting there, it's like, you know, I don't know what's really, like, uh, at
00:47:57.736 Speaker 2 what point will it sh- shift, but I feel like that's the thought that comes up. So
00:48:00.956 Speaker 2 you're like, every time you're s- coming to this practice, and any of these
00:48:03.836 Speaker 2 practices, I love that phrase you mentioned again just now, and I think you
00:48:08.376 Speaker 2 mentioned it last episode. You have to be willing to sit, believe something stupid
00:48:14.236 Speaker 2 for long enough that it becomes true.
00:48:16.596 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. That's exactly how it works. Yeah, so I had had the
00:48:22.356 Speaker 1 benefit of other forms of physical validation. So at this point, I can see without
00:48:26.536 Speaker 1 my eyeballs. I can close my eyes. I can see. Um, I was able to see out of the back
00:48:32.236 Speaker 1 of my head for a little while. I stopped training that skill because it's really
00:48:35.696 Speaker 1 disorienting to- Um, now that proves it to me, right? I mean, I can prove it to
00:48:40.880 Speaker 1 other people. If you were to put me in front of an optometrist or whatever, we could
00:48:44.000 Speaker 1 set it up so that they would know for sure that, yeah, his eyelids are closed. He
00:48:47.260 Speaker 1 can't see this. Like, I haven't bothered to engineer that test because I don't care.
00:48:51.300 Speaker 1 I'm not doing this to prove it to anyone else. I'm doing it for me, right? I know,
00:48:55.240 Speaker 1 and that's enough. I saw through the mask. It's good enough for me. Um, but I'd also
00:49:00.160 Speaker 1 been doing telekinesis practice, so the ability to move things, in this case, a very
00:49:04.400 Speaker 1 light thing, without touching it. Uh, at that time, I would've said I was using my
00:49:09.620 Speaker 1 mind to move it, but now, given the ex- the knowledge in Reality 101, I'm moving
00:49:14.380 Speaker 1 myself, right? That's how psi works. That's how psychic powers work, is [chuckles]
00:49:19.460 Speaker 1 oh, wow, I can see with that eye. That's so amazing. You're just looking at
00:49:22.320 Speaker 1 yourself. Of course you can.
00:49:23.800 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:49:24.660 Speaker 1 Uh, how you can move stuff with your mind, uh, sort of. You can move yourself. Like
00:49:28.240 Speaker 1 [chuckles] duh.
00:49:30.000 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:49:30.120 Speaker 1 Um, but there are rules in there of physics, and there's resistance. A lot of it is
00:49:34.280 Speaker 1 mental, but not all. So I didn't know anyone that knew telekinesis. Like, this is
00:49:38.960 Speaker 1 not my world. I am coming from software development. Like, I'm coming from... I was
00:49:44.760 Speaker 1 an atheist. Like, uh, this is so far outside my understanding, but I'm obsessively
00:49:50.680 Speaker 1 exploring everything. I read a book on telekinesis by Sean McNamara called The
00:49:55.620 Speaker 1 Telekinesis Practice Method. I just happened to see it on Amazon. I don't even know
00:50:00.680 Speaker 1 what led me to it. I'm like, "I'm gonna buy that." Why? I don't know. [chuckles] I
00:50:05.000 Speaker 1 don't know why. I would've thought that was stupid, but I did it and I read it. I
00:50:08.940 Speaker 1 didn't know anyone who knew how to do this. So I read the book, and I set up this
00:50:13.140 Speaker 1 eye wheel, and I practiced for over the course of three to six months, at
00:50:19.120 Speaker 1 least 30 hours total time staring at this thing. It becomes like one of my regular
00:50:22.760 Speaker 1 meditations, 30 minutes or so at a time, m- up to an hour sometimes, depending how
00:50:27.260 Speaker 1 obsessive I am, just staring at this stupid piece of aluminum foil. Move. I try
00:50:31.840 Speaker 1 everything. Everything. Everything you can imagine, and I still-- It doesn't move,
00:50:38.520 Speaker 1 and it's so infuriating. Like, at this point, you know, I don't have any mindsight.
00:50:44.720 Speaker 1 Um, I don't even think I was doing much telepathy or anything then. I just, I th- I
00:50:49.760 Speaker 1 had this sense that I could, that it should be possible. I'd already seen UFOs. I'm
00:50:54.560 Speaker 1 like, "Man, if that's possible, this has gotta be..." I don't wanna give up.
00:50:58.000 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:50:59.080 Speaker 1 And then one day, I'm staring at this piece of aluminum foil, and I just have this
00:51:03.860 Speaker 1 feeling like it's gonna move. I just, I know it is. I can feel that it is. It's
00:51:08.980 Speaker 1 going to. And then it, it wiggles, and then it starts to turn, and I just start
00:51:14.680 Speaker 1 crying. I'm like openly crying.
00:51:16.380 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:51:16.440 Speaker 1 It's like, "I did it." [chuckles] Like I said, without touching it. I'm like three
00:51:20.080 Speaker 1 feet away from this thing. It's in a shoebox, basically, in a recessed cubby in my
00:51:24.980 Speaker 1 walk-in closet, uh, where there's no airflow. So this, I know when this thing moves
00:51:29.680 Speaker 1 and doesn't move. It wasn't vibration. It was nothing. Like, I've been staring at
00:51:33.640 Speaker 1 this thing for 30 hours of my life. I know what makes it move and doesn't make it
00:51:36.960 Speaker 1 move, intimately. [chuckles] And it spins, and I start to cry because it, it's real.
00:51:43.360 Speaker 1 Like, this isn't, my experiences aren't things that are just happening to me now at
00:51:48.060 Speaker 1 that point. And it's like, I can do it. Like I needed to see something physical
00:51:52.480 Speaker 1 move. Um, and since then, as you well know, I've done maybe close to 100 hours of
00:51:57.560 Speaker 1 practice in telekinesis now, and I, I can make it move under glass, which doesn't
00:52:02.000 Speaker 1 sound that fancy, under a big like bell glass jar. So this thing is isolated. That
00:52:07.220 Speaker 1 doesn't sound hard, but it's at least 10 times harder. Uh, and I can do it from a
00:52:10.960 Speaker 1 distance as well. I don't even have to touch it now. It's hard, uh, but I can do it
00:52:15.920 Speaker 1 maybe one in two sessions, one in three sessions. I can do it without touching it
00:52:18.860 Speaker 1 from a few feet away under a bell jar. I can get it to spin now, and, um, that's
00:52:24.040 Speaker 1 practice, so anyone can do it. But I needed to see physical validation. I, it's hard
00:52:29.680 Speaker 1 to understa- like how much it matters, I think especially to the human brain. You
00:52:34.140 Speaker 1 just nee- you need to see something in your physical environment 'cause it's what we
00:52:37.800 Speaker 1 understand. It's what we're used to. Um, and that, that changed me for sure.
00:52:46.000 Speaker 2 Wow. I can only get mine to move when the window's open and there's a breeze coming
00:52:50.640 Speaker 2 through.
00:52:50.880 Speaker 1 [chuckles] You'll get it. You'll get it.
00:52:53.060 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:52:53.680 Speaker 1 Um, start with your hands.
00:52:54.899 Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm like, "Oh, it moved," and like I realized, oh, I'm breathing too hard,
00:52:59.040 Speaker 2 or like, oh, the window's open. [chuckles]
00:53:03.240 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's like that.
00:53:03.760 Speaker 2 Uh, what,
00:53:06.520 Speaker 2 what's the point of cultivating these psi capacities?
00:53:09.360 Speaker 1 [chuckles] It is-- So this
00:53:15.420 Speaker 1 is my personal theory, right? Uh, and I think we'll talk about this when we get into
00:53:20.380 Speaker 1 mindsight. This is like a whole part of the story arc [chuckles] that's just been
00:53:23.100 Speaker 1 totally ignored. It was so profound. Uh, but I've noticed this. It is every
00:53:29.140 Speaker 1 time you have a big breakthrough in some psychic ability. So at this point, I'd done
00:53:32.880 Speaker 1 remote viewing practice. I'd done telekinesis, and this was before mindsight. I was
00:53:37.740 Speaker 1 doing other stuff, right? Uh, anytime you get a big breakthrough, like whoa, that
00:53:42.120 Speaker 1 just worked, there's like this surge of energy, and I mentioned it to Kate, our
00:53:47.060 Speaker 1 mutual friend, before. It's a lot like, um, Stormlight Ar- Stormlight Archives when,
00:53:52.220 Speaker 1 uh, somebody says like the words of power and they like ascend to like the next
00:53:55.940 Speaker 1 level of like their, uh, Knight Radiant abilities. There's this outburst of power,
00:54:00.820 Speaker 1 like fusion, like atoms or like fission-
00:54:03.080 Speaker 2 Mm
00:54:03.080 Speaker 1 ... being split for the first time, and it blows you wide open. And experiences,
00:54:09.360 Speaker 1 like without fail, that night, the first time I did it with glass, the first time I
00:54:13.740 Speaker 1 did it ever, big experiences right afterward. Opening my mindsight for the first
00:54:18.360 Speaker 1 time, woof, wild experiences. At night, even waking state, in meditation, just all
00:54:24.320 Speaker 1 sorts of incredibly vivid things, profound feelings and information. It's like it
00:54:28.420 Speaker 1 just blows open the aperture. Um, so that is one reason, is that developing psychic
00:54:34.060 Speaker 1 capacities definitely has a functional connectivity between you and
00:54:40.120 Speaker 1 the other side or whatever, non-material- ... reality. It blows open those doors.
00:54:46.044 Speaker 1 Now, that effect is short-lived. You get a huge burst, right? But there is, like,
00:54:50.324 Speaker 1 once it comes back, your baseline's higher. Like, you're more sensitive now. It's
00:54:54.444 Speaker 1 opening you up. But that's only one of the things it does. I think it also trains
00:54:59.264 Speaker 1 your belief. If I ever needed to know that reality is, like, fundamentally not just
00:55:04.804 Speaker 1 physical, [laughs] I just do this. Like, uh, yeah, okay. Yeah, that's my hand.
00:55:10.404 Speaker 1 [laughs] I have my eyes closed. [laughs] I can see it. Um, yeah, okay. Like, what
00:55:15.584 Speaker 1 it... All of this stems from belief, imagination, intent. Uh, like, that's where it
00:55:21.064 Speaker 1 all comes from. Like, that is what opens the aperture to sensitivity, to making
00:55:24.904 Speaker 1 these things happen, is that you believe it can, and you believe it's possible for
00:55:29.864 Speaker 1 you, and you want it. Like, all of these, you're feeding this like a little
00:55:33.284 Speaker 1 Tamagotchi. And like, if you just keep feeding it, it slowly opens up, like, these
00:55:38.804 Speaker 1 apertures to be more sensitive to these things and to let it, like, come into your
00:55:42.684 Speaker 1 world. That's what you're doing. And so I think psychic powers, seeing them happen,
00:55:48.144 Speaker 1 believing you can do it, actually doing it, and going, "Holy shit, you can move
00:55:52.544 Speaker 1 things without touching them." [laughs] Like, I can see without eyes. Like, I can
00:55:56.584 Speaker 1 learn things about the world that I'm not physically present for. Once you do that,
00:56:01.724 Speaker 1 it changes you. It changes what you expect, and what you expect changes what you
00:56:05.784 Speaker 1 believe next, and that, like, creates this stairstep. Um, so I think it's an
00:56:10.884 Speaker 1 integral part-
00:56:12.804 Speaker 2 Mm
00:56:12.864 Speaker 1 ... of advancing spiritual development.
00:56:15.144 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:56:15.564 Speaker 1 And personal development, of course, is key as well, but I think that this really,
00:56:20.464 Speaker 1 it also acts as, like, a multivitamin against cultural pressure and
00:56:26.124 Speaker 1 familial pressure of friends who are constantly cooking you. They're, like, uh,
00:56:30.584 Speaker 1 pasteurizing your beliefs.
00:56:32.684 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:56:32.724 Speaker 1 This is impossible. This is impossible. You wanna see a piece of tinfoil stop
00:56:37.524 Speaker 1 spinning or to stop seeing without your eyeballs, you just get somebody in the room
00:56:41.144 Speaker 1 who thinks that you're crazy, or they're judging.
00:56:43.704 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:56:43.724 Speaker 1 They think you're dumb. Turns out like a light. This stuff just stops immediately,
00:56:48.024 Speaker 1 until you develop a sense of, like, inner confidence. I can see with Mindsight now
00:56:53.023 Speaker 1 if, even if somebody's screaming in my face that I'm-
00:56:55.344 Speaker 2 Mm
00:56:55.344 Speaker 1 ... an idiot and that it doesn't work. But for the first few months, absolutely not.
00:57:00.064 Speaker 1 Even my own doubt, you can see it in real time. It's hilarious. Like you're, "Wait,
00:57:05.504 Speaker 1 am I actually, or am I, like, peeking somehow?" I'm, like, squinting through my
00:57:08.784 Speaker 1 eyes. Bam.
00:57:09.524 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:57:09.884 Speaker 1 It's off. And you're like, "Oh, I'm so sorry."
00:57:11.564 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:57:11.644 Speaker 1 "Please come back."
00:57:12.304 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:57:12.444 Speaker 1 "No, no, no." So if you ever doubted whether your intention or your beliefs are
00:57:16.644 Speaker 1 affecting your reality, psychic powers end up being, like, a really good, like, I
00:57:21.744 Speaker 1 guess, bellwether. Like, just a way to test how open am I? How, like, permissive am
00:57:27.784 Speaker 1 I feeling? Like, how am I allowing things in? Because that tinfoil ain't gonna spin
00:57:32.564 Speaker 1 if you don't believe it. Um, and so if it happens immediately, you get that
00:57:36.684 Speaker 1 real-world validation. So it also ends up being a really good, like, barometer for
00:57:41.644 Speaker 1 how connected am I? How much, how tuned am I, tuned in am I? Um-
00:57:46.044 Speaker 2 Mm
00:57:46.124 Speaker 1 ... and it w- it, it won't lie. [laughs] That, uh, it... You shouldn't use that as
00:57:51.484 Speaker 1 your only test, of course, because you're gonna become demotivated. Uh, and there,
00:57:55.644 Speaker 1 other things can go wrong, right? There's, there are other factors, but it ends up
00:57:58.664 Speaker 1 being one... If it spins, you know that you have at least some capacity here. Um, so
00:58:04.184 Speaker 1 it ends up being a decent benchmark and a way to practice. Uh, so all of those are,
00:58:08.784 Speaker 1 are good reasons to do it. Also, it's awesome. So-
00:58:11.704 Speaker 2 [laughs] Super powerful effect
00:58:12.664 Speaker 1 ... I think that's the number one reason, right? We can.
00:58:14.824 Speaker 2 All right. This is, uh,
00:58:18.504 Speaker 2 I'm gonna test you. I, I believe in your powers, and this is a live demo.
00:58:25.584 Speaker 2 Okay. I've got, I've got four different color pens here.
00:58:28.964 Speaker 1 [laughs]
00:58:30.964 Speaker 2 I'm gonna hold them up.
00:58:32.844 Speaker 1 Okay.
00:58:33.924 Speaker 2 Anyone who is doubting this and watching this-
00:58:36.144 Speaker 1 [laughs]
00:58:36.384 Speaker 2 ... or listening to this-
00:58:37.864 Speaker 1 Thanks for putting me on the spot
00:58:38.884 Speaker 2 ... would be like-
00:58:39.144 Speaker 1 I appreciate that
00:58:39.284 Speaker 2 ... he, he's squinting.
00:58:40.224 Speaker 1 If it's true-
00:58:40.644 Speaker 2 But I believe you
00:58:41.324 Speaker 1 ... I'm not squinting.
00:58:42.504 Speaker 2 And w- and we can always cut-
00:58:43.884 Speaker 1 Of course I-
00:58:44.084 Speaker 2 We can always cut this out. [laughs]
00:58:46.104 Speaker 1 What? I don't need to cut it.
00:58:47.484 Speaker 2 Are you ready?
00:58:47.784 Speaker 1 No. Bring it on.
00:58:48.224 Speaker 2 Are you ready?
00:58:48.704 Speaker 1 Let's go.
00:58:49.324 Speaker 2 Activate. Are you... What, what level are you at?
00:58:50.824 Speaker 1 It's on. Let's go.
00:58:51.564 Speaker 2 Level one. Okay.
00:58:53.964 Speaker 1 It's, uh, orange.
00:58:57.024 Speaker 2 Right.
00:58:58.784 Speaker 1 There's no pen. What do you got? Oh, that's blue.
00:59:00.383 Speaker 2 Oh.
00:59:00.664 Speaker 1 Sorry.
00:59:01.824 Speaker 2 Okay.
00:59:02.304 Speaker 1 It's blue.
00:59:03.584 Speaker 2 That's purple.
00:59:04.904 Speaker 1 What? That's green?
00:59:06.304 Speaker 2 Oh, I'll show you again. I'll show you again. Hold on. Yeah, that one, that one was
00:59:08.904 Speaker 2 green.
00:59:09.064 Speaker 1 That's not purple. That looks blue.
00:59:11.564 Speaker 2 Yeah, I guess, I guess it's relative.
00:59:13.204 Speaker 1 [laughs] It's orange.
00:59:16.904 Speaker 2 Okay.
00:59:18.644 Speaker 2 Oh, this is interesting. This is interesting. I'm gathering some information here.
00:59:21.564 Speaker 1 [laughs] Okay. It's not where I thought this was going. Is it black?
00:59:25.704 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:59:26.444 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's black.
00:59:27.064 Speaker 2 Black. All right. Uh, you wanna do a couple more? Here. Oh, here, I got a couple
00:59:31.064 Speaker 2 more here.
00:59:31.284 Speaker 1 Sure.
00:59:31.604 Speaker 2 I got a whole bag full of multicolored pens. This is how I write.
00:59:36.744 Speaker 1 Green.
00:59:40.464 Speaker 1 Blue.
00:59:43.264 Speaker 1 It's, like, a lighter blue, though.
00:59:46.344 Speaker 1 Uh, the lighting is hard. It looks like dark green.
00:59:48.844 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, my lighting's not good. Yep. Yeah, man. Pfoof. It's interesting. This is,
00:59:53.444 Speaker 2 there's an orange, and there's a, like, a light pink.
00:59:56.204 Speaker 1 I have a lot of... The right one on the right for me is lighter.
00:59:58.884 Speaker 2 Yeah. This is, like, a pink, and this is, like, an orange. Oh, man, interesting.
01:00:03.724 Speaker 2 Live demo. Okay, that's fun.
01:00:04.804 Speaker 1 Sure, yeah. Appreciate you really putting me on the spot there [laughs] in the
01:00:07.324 Speaker 1 moment.
01:00:07.864 Speaker 2 [laughs] Now the world knows you're psychic.
01:00:09.424 Speaker 1 I, I like demoing. It's cool.
01:00:10.624 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:00:11.484 Speaker 1 It is harder, though.
01:00:11.804 Speaker 2 No, it's powerful. Well, it made me think of, um, yeah, uh, Dahlia? I forgot her
01:00:16.544 Speaker 2 name. Bor something.
01:00:17.784 Speaker 1 Yeah.
01:00:18.704 Speaker 2 What's her last name?
01:00:20.324 Speaker 1 Uh, Burr... I don't know. It starts with a B.
01:00:22.924 Speaker 2 Boroin or something?
01:00:23.804 Speaker 1 I can't remember.
01:00:24.824 Speaker 2 Boroin? I don't know.
01:00:25.584 Speaker 1 Just search Dahlia Mindsight.
01:00:26.644 Speaker 2 I don't know.
01:00:26.704 Speaker 1 You'll see her.
01:00:27.304 Speaker 2 Yeah, Dahlia. Uh, I heard a, listened to an interview with her. She's a Mindsight
01:00:30.844 Speaker 2 facilitator, trainer, and I think she was one of the people who trained Steven.
01:00:35.124 Speaker 1 Yeah.
01:00:35.304 Speaker 2 And she said that some people are so skeptical that, you know, they train it with
01:00:39.704 Speaker 2 this mask, a special mask that has, like, that doesn't let any li- light through,
01:00:44.364 Speaker 2 Mindfold. And, uh, [clears throat] some people doubt that the mask is blocking
01:00:50.316 Speaker 2 enough, so she needs to wear, like, patches over her eyes and, uh, the mask and then
01:00:55.996 Speaker 2 another, like, layer on top of it [laughs] until it's like, yeah, there's
01:00:59.576 Speaker 2 definitely... You're definitely not seeing anything.
01:01:01.616 Speaker 1 She wore-
01:01:01.656 Speaker 2 And she's just, like, ac- 100% accurate.
01:01:04.956 Speaker 1 She had seven layers-
01:01:05.876 Speaker 2 It's amazing
01:01:06.116 Speaker 1 ... of stuff on her face when she demoed for us in person.
01:01:08.256 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:01:08.776 Speaker 1 She had a scarf, Band-Aids, like, a mask, a, like, a welding visor, a whole bunch
01:01:14.356 Speaker 1 of-
01:01:14.596 Speaker 2 Yeah. Welding stuff
01:01:15.036 Speaker 1 ... construction paper, a bunch of random... This woman's head was, like, wrap-
01:01:18.976 Speaker 1 [laughs] wrapped up in stuff. And she was calling out colors and cards and letters
01:01:23.416 Speaker 1 and stuff from across the room, which is incredible.
01:01:25.736 Speaker 2 Wow.
01:01:25.776 Speaker 1 I have not trained to that degree.
01:01:27.116 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:01:27.156 Speaker 1 I see through my eyelids.
01:01:28.936 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:01:28.976 Speaker 1 Right? Um, and it's good enough for me. I'm training other skills. I wanna see in
01:01:33.036 Speaker 1 the dark. Still working on that one. I wanna see the flow of, like, non-physical
01:01:36.476 Speaker 1 things like energy. Still working on that one. Uh, spirits. Some mixed success with
01:01:41.116 Speaker 1 all of those. Uh, I'm more interested in that than I am in just, like, how much crap
01:01:44.556 Speaker 1 can I put on my face and still see through it.
01:01:46.316 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:01:46.976 Speaker 1 I don't really care about that.
01:01:48.036 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:01:49.536 Speaker 1 Um, I wanna zoom in, uh, stuff like that.
01:01:51.116 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:01:51.636 Speaker 1 Uh, but this is just fun for me now. Like, I don't need to prove it anymore. Like,
01:01:55.976 Speaker 1 I'm good. Uh, that... Now I'm just having fun. Now I'm just playing. I have other
01:02:00.956 Speaker 1 goals, like spiritually development, I guess. Um, but psychic powers are awesome,
01:02:06.636 Speaker 1 and they're real. So, you know, it's not where I planned the conversation to go, but
01:02:11.596 Speaker 1 they were a huge part of how I was able to take some of these steps, is because I
01:02:17.356 Speaker 1 had validation from other things. Like, I know I've seen some UFOs. [laughs] Like,
01:02:22.676 Speaker 1 at this... That, I don't know how to explain that. Uh, I've moved things without
01:02:27.056 Speaker 1 touching them. I can see without eyes. Like, I-
01:02:29.436 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:02:29.596 Speaker 1 You've, you've... So you become, "Well, maybe I've... You know, there really is a
01:02:32.936 Speaker 1 life-"
01:02:33.136 Speaker 2 Yeah
01:02:33.136 Speaker 1 ... or a family beyond this one. Maybe I really can talk to them."
01:02:35.536 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:02:35.596 Speaker 1 "These aren't just thoughts in my head." Um, so nobody just showed up with those
01:02:40.636 Speaker 1 experiences right out of the gate. Like, it was spoon-fed to me. I may not have
01:02:45.436 Speaker 1 realized it, but if you can make my family go away for the afternoon on short
01:02:50.616 Speaker 1 notice-
01:02:51.616 Speaker 2 Mm
01:02:51.616 Speaker 1 ... what is time? [laughs]
01:02:53.696 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:02:53.776 Speaker 1 If you can plant people's thoughts in people's heads... Again, none of this is
01:02:57.336 Speaker 1 sinister. It's all, like, incredibly loving. Uh, like a very loving, like, dungeon
01:03:02.216 Speaker 1 master just, like s- moving pieces behind the scenes, respecting free will, but
01:03:07.156 Speaker 1 clearly influencing events so that you get what you want, right?
01:03:11.016 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:03:11.136 Speaker 1 Or to help it. Um, so yeah, I... All of this, like, feeds into
01:03:17.536 Speaker 1 being able to take this stuff seriously. It's... It wasn't just one event. And I
01:03:21.956 Speaker 1 would've probably had a psychotic break or not believed it if it had started at full
01:03:26.236 Speaker 1 volume. Like, that would not be kind.
01:03:28.236 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
01:03:28.276 Speaker 1 I would not have learned anything. I would've just, like, taken some pills and made
01:03:31.976 Speaker 1 it go away.
01:03:34.056 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:03:36.436 Speaker 2 Yeah. There's a lot of really good, like, yeah, really vibrant threads that I'm
01:03:40.596 Speaker 2 excited to pull. Uh, and we are aiming to close in
01:03:46.376 Speaker 2 about around this time. So yeah, I'm just wanting, wondering if you would like to
01:03:52.516 Speaker 2 share some reflections, uh, having shared this story and in, in this conversation
01:03:57.556 Speaker 2 now.
01:03:59.916 Speaker 2 Any meaning you're making of this experiences or new perspectives you're gaining
01:04:03.156 Speaker 2 from sharing it now in this space?
01:04:05.496 Speaker 1 It's fun for me. Um, so we got through the personal story. We didn't... We'll get to
01:04:10.096 Speaker 1 the rest in part two of, of [laughs] this episode. Um,
01:04:15.776 Speaker 1 it's... This is my life. Like, these are people to me. This isn't just a fun story.
01:04:21.676 Speaker 1 I am in a unique position. Told my other friend Tony that every time I tell these
01:04:26.336 Speaker 1 stories, I know they're there. [laughs] Like-
01:04:29.876 Speaker 2 Mm
01:04:29.896 Speaker 1 ... I know they can listen to me.
01:04:32.956 Speaker 1 Every now and then, you, you get a little impression, like, for the most part, but
01:04:37.076 Speaker 1 this is my life. These are people to me. Like, these, this is like a family. Like,
01:04:42.276 Speaker 1 it's, it's not just a thing I trot out because it's, "Ha ha, check out this cool
01:04:45.796 Speaker 1 story I've got." Like, at... It matters on a very deep level to me.
01:04:52.796 Speaker 1 Um, I know it is true. I haven't just had some fun experiences. I've... It hasn't
01:04:58.116 Speaker 1 stopped, right? Um, and I was wrong about a lot of the impressions along the way.
01:05:03.556 Speaker 1 Uh, but it always, just like the coin thing, it always ends up converging on the
01:05:08.756 Speaker 1 truth if you're patient enough. If you just keep getting back up and trying again,
01:05:12.536 Speaker 1 you're willing to admit, "Oh, I was wrong about that," getting some conflicting
01:05:15.496 Speaker 1 impressions, you're like... If you're patient enough and you keep following it and
01:05:19.636 Speaker 1 you never stop believing that there is something here, but you also hold it lightly,
01:05:25.416 Speaker 1 you don't need the right answers right away. You don't get the validation right
01:05:28.896 Speaker 1 away. If you can sit with it and, like, keep going, it does turn into something.
01:05:35.596 Speaker 1 And what it turned into me, into for me was, like,
01:05:40.576 Speaker 1 what matters most to me. You saw it in the questions that I asked.
01:05:43.776 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:05:43.816 Speaker 1 You know, just loving relationships, just finding out that somebody had been there,
01:05:48.696 Speaker 1 multiple somebodies had been there the whole time, my entire life, and, uh,
01:05:54.676 Speaker 1 how touching that is, and that that is true to some degree in different ways.
01:05:59.456 Speaker 1 Everyone has their own story like this. You just didn't know it. You're sitting here
01:06:03.916 Speaker 1 going to work, you're bored, you're, you feel like your life has no meaning or
01:06:09.216 Speaker 1 [laughs] things are pointless. Meanwhile,
01:06:13.076 Speaker 1 somebody there cares about you. They're wa- [laughs] they're watching you. They're
01:06:16.696 Speaker 1 there, and they care about you, and they want things for you, and they influence
01:06:21.296 Speaker 1 you, and you're not alone. And it's, there's nothing bad or sinister or unnerving
01:06:27.156 Speaker 1 really about it other than the realization that you are loved, and you're not alone,
01:06:32.976 Speaker 1 and you never were. You just thought you were. That is, like, how it feels to tell
01:06:37.696 Speaker 1 this story, is how profound that is, and that's still what matters most to me. As
01:06:41.176 Speaker 1 crazy as it sounds, like, getting all of this information about [laughs] how reality
01:06:45.876 Speaker 1 works and being able to do cool psychic stuff and, like, you would think that those
01:06:50.496 Speaker 1 are the highlights, and they're awesome. But ultimately, at the end of the day, at
01:06:53.696 Speaker 1 least for me, and I- Hopefully for a lot of other people, it's finding out who's out
01:06:59.688 Speaker 1 there that loves you and, like [laughs] what they want for you, and that they've
01:07:03.688 Speaker 1 cared about you this whole time, and that they've been helping you this whole time.
01:07:08.368 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:07:09.008 Speaker 1 And to me, that is what matters most, and it still is. And that's, uh... I think
01:07:14.128 Speaker 1 there's something beautiful about that.
01:07:18.688 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:07:25.188 Speaker 2 Hmm.
01:07:31.108 Speaker 2 Yeah, I feel honored to hear the story more in depth and to have these
01:07:34.548 Speaker 2 conversations. And, uh,
01:07:39.928 Speaker 2 they always sit with me in my mind, and I like this idea of, like, you mentioned
01:07:45.788 Speaker 2 beginning shatterings, a series of shatterings, and my other podcast is called
01:07:50.588 Speaker 2 Ruptures and Roots. Um,
01:07:54.508 Speaker 2 and how every time
01:07:58.208 Speaker 2 who I think I was and where I thought I was going breaks open, something truer
01:08:04.468 Speaker 2 comes through, and a version of myself that lives a fuller life.
01:08:10.368 Speaker 2 And, uh, it's, uh, kind of incredible that this is where I find myself now.
01:08:16.368 Speaker 2 I think it's interesting to think that, like, a lot of the,
01:08:22.048 Speaker 2 the battle or a lot of the journey is coming to the point where you can actually
01:08:25.688 Speaker 2 begin to believe, hey, maybe this stuff is real. [laughs]
01:08:30.368 Speaker 1 There's a lot of work to be done to get to that point, to be fair.
01:08:32.588 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:34.088 Speaker 1 You need to be able to keep-
01:08:34.808 Speaker 2 And-
01:08:34.868 Speaker 1 ... a job and put your clothes on and-
01:08:37.328 Speaker 2 Mm
01:08:37.328 Speaker 1 ... not be, you know, have anger management problems or drug addiction problems.
01:08:41.588 Speaker 1 Like, you, there's a lot of work to get to the top of Maslow's hierarchy. It's not a
01:08:45.128 Speaker 1 simple task.
01:08:45.728 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:08:45.808 Speaker 1 So don't-
01:08:46.568 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:08:47.288 Speaker 1 It's a tough world that we find ourselves in.
01:08:49.988 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:08:50.848 Speaker 1 But you can make it.
01:08:51.368 Speaker 2 And being the sci-fi and fantasy writer that I am, I always imagine,
01:08:57.588 Speaker 2 wow, where are we going? This is, what a-
01:09:00.428 Speaker 1 Mm
01:09:00.428 Speaker 2 ... strange and luminous time we're living in, where m-
01:09:06.268 Speaker 2 many more of us, more and more of us are discovering these capacities that Stephen's
01:09:11.468 Speaker 2 talking about, and has been,
01:09:15.168 Speaker 2 uh, paving the way or...
01:09:19.648 Speaker 2 Uh, I like the image of, like, breaking through a, like, you know, the
01:09:25.508 Speaker 2 first person to, like, row. It's, uh,
01:09:30.468 Speaker 2 rowing upstream, right? Or maybe like the, like a, like a geese flying, right? The
01:09:35.128 Speaker 2 f- the one at the front is working the hardest, but then the ones coming behind it
01:09:39.168 Speaker 2 are, it's a little bit easier.
01:09:41.488 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
01:09:41.748 Speaker 2 Uh, as, but as more and more of us begin to, you know, pivot
01:09:47.588 Speaker 2 and arrive at this place, uh, a place like this,
01:09:53.088 Speaker 2 these capacities can unlock in a greater potential.
01:09:59.148 Speaker 2 So, you know, there's a version of the sci-fi future that I've, you know, been
01:10:03.788 Speaker 2 enculturated to believe where, you know, it's like we put, we put, like, computers
01:10:09.528 Speaker 2 in our brains and, you know, unlock, enhance ourselves cybernetically, the cyberpunk
01:10:15.028 Speaker 2 future [laughs] , you know, or, like, we take off into the stars or something like
01:10:18.648 Speaker 2 that. But
01:10:20.908 Speaker 2 this, to me, it feels like the frontier. Consciousness.
01:10:23.728 Speaker 1 Surprise.
01:10:25.048 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:10:25.428 Speaker 1 Nope. Every time somebody talks to me about a Terminator future, I start laughing.
01:10:29.448 Speaker 2 I'm like, phew.
01:10:29.868 Speaker 1 I'm like, "Buddy, you have no idea."
01:10:30.908 Speaker 2 I don't want that. Who wants that? [laughs]
01:10:32.768 Speaker 1 Yeah.
01:10:32.888 Speaker 2 None of those futures are beautiful. [laughs]
01:10:35.328 Speaker 1 You guys can have that. How about a 90-degree turn? How about that?
01:10:38.868 Speaker 2 Yeah.
01:10:39.108 Speaker 1 What if you're-
01:10:39.548 Speaker 2 How about we're all-
01:10:39.848 Speaker 1 ... totally wrong about the future?
01:10:40.788 Speaker 2 How about we're all flying around and lifting boulders with our minds?
01:10:43.628 Speaker 1 Yeah.
01:10:43.868 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:10:44.528 Speaker 1 Yeah. You can just peace out and go live in idea space. You don't even need a body.
01:10:49.008 Speaker 2 [laughs]
01:10:49.308 Speaker 1 What you think about that? Nobody... Why do we think-
01:10:51.668 Speaker 2 That's-
01:10:51.668 Speaker 1 ... keep thinking we can predict the future? Humans. We're like, "Psh, I know where
01:10:55.048 Speaker 1 the future's going."
01:10:55.888 Speaker 2 Mm.
01:10:55.908 Speaker 1 Like, you don't know. Every single time we think that, we're wrong.
01:10:59.508 Speaker 2 Yeah. [laughs] Well, that feels like a good place to wrap.
01:11:05.668 Speaker 2 This has been such a exciting and interesting conversation today.
01:11:12.068 Speaker 2 This is Reality 101. Until next time.
01:11:16.068 Speaker 1 Nothing is impossible, you're not going to die, and everything loves you.
01:11:20.348 Speaker 1 [outro music]