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Speaker 1: [gentle music]

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Speaker 1: Reality 101 is a journal of
impossible experiences, from first-hand
explorations

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Speaker 1: into the nature of reality, what it
means for all of us, and how you can experience

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Speaker 1: it for yourself. I'm Stephen Trumbek.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joshua Swenson. This episode
of Reality 101 is part three of See, Wake Up,

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Speaker 2: Remember. We're finishing our
conversation on the topic of direct non-dual

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Speaker 2: realization, what it implies about
how reality works, and why this matters at all

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Speaker 2: beyond a neat experience. Uh, but
before we dive in on that topic, we like to
check

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Speaker 2: in, so I'm wondering how you're
arriving today, Stephen.

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Speaker 1: I'm arriving pretty good. I'm, I'm
always excited to, to chat, uh,

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Speaker 1: and to share, you know, what I've
learned, what, what we've learned. Um, I'm
coming

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Speaker 1: off a weird experience, uh,
yesterday, where I,

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Speaker 1: uh, talked to my past self [chuckles]
in a liminal state, like right before I

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Speaker 1: chose to come here. Uh, like right
before making the decision to

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Speaker 1: live a hu- live a human life here,
which is-

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Speaker 2: Mm

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Speaker 1: ... profound and weird and pretty
emotional. Uh, pretty strange. Uh, if

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Speaker 1: you guys are new to those ideas,
that's what you can do. Time isn't a thing. You
can

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Speaker 1: talk to your past self or future
self. Um, but yeah, uh, maybe we'll get into
that

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Speaker 1: another time, but that's how I'm
arriving. It's like, dang, uh, the weight of

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Speaker 1: meaning [chuckles] feels. I got, I
got big feels, but I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: Um, so how are you?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool. Um, thanks for
sharing that. Um, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling a little

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Speaker 2: lower energy, lower mood. Um,

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Speaker 2: and uh, yeah, just in a little bit of
a transitional phase. Hap- often happens in

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Speaker 2: the summer. Feel like I go through a
period of unraveling and inner exploration and

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Speaker 2: holding open for what wants to emerge
through me. And uh, just this morning,

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Speaker 2: there was this interesting [chuckles]
... I, I feel like synchronicities often, uh,

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Speaker 2: around birds happen to me. I had one
a couple months ago about hummingbirds, and

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Speaker 2: this time, uh, it's always crazy
getting my kids ready to go out the door and,
uh,

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Speaker 2: something shifted. I was able to
connect with my daughter and, uh, just

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Speaker 2: transmute her grumpy energy into
excited energy. And they open the door and, um,

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Speaker 2: this hawk takes off. It was right,
sitting right on our, uh, we live in a fifth

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Speaker 2: floor apartment, and it was on the
floor kind of like 10, 15 feet away from our

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Speaker 2: door, and it was feasting on a
pigeon. [chuckles] So it's just like we just get
a

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Speaker 2: glimpse of it flying off, holding the
pigeon and, uh, and uh, yeah, then there's

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Speaker 2: like blood and feathers everywhere
and, uh, some of the feed that was in the

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Speaker 2: pigeon's stomach. Um, so that was
just a, that's just, I don't know. I just, I
don't

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Speaker 2: know what to make of that, but it
was, those kind of things happen and they just,

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, uh,

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Speaker 2: I, I choose to s- to experience this
mundane reality more like a dream, you know,

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Speaker 2: laden with symbolism and meaning. And
so, uh, I think I'll have to sit with that for

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Speaker 2: a little bit. But yeah, that's how
I'm arriving today, a little bit in a, a
quandary

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Speaker 2: and, uh, yeah, excited for this
conversation and to, uh,

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Speaker 2: see how it unfolds. I, I listened
back on the, our last recording. It's been a

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Speaker 2: little while, and that, well, that
conversation went really deep, and there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of really profound, uh, things
that came through there.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm curious if you have a,
if you have anywhere you'd like to, to pick

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Speaker 2: up, 'cause I know we wanna just like
give some space today for discussing the

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Speaker 2: implications of that last, uh,
experience.

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Speaker 2: Maybe a recap, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Maybe just a short recap if you'd
like to give it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the short recap. This is the
part three that was supposed to be a one part

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Speaker 1: episode. [chuckles]

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Speaker 2: Yeah. [chuckles]

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Speaker 1: But it was meant to be like one arc,
you know, just pulling one thread of some of

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Speaker 1: the experiences that I've had, uh,
which, you know, getting the repeated

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Speaker 1: instructions to see, wake up, and
remember, and really leaning into that in

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Speaker 1: meditation, throughout waking life,
like just feeding this belief like a bonfire.

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Speaker 1: And all the places it led to various
perspectives that were weird, right? They were,

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Speaker 1: they're all valid, but they're all,
they were much different than our regular waking

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Speaker 1: life, for me anyway. Um, you know,
I've- don't have extensive psychedelic

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Speaker 1: experience, so for me, uh, you know,
the depths of meditation was as non-dual as it

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Speaker 1: got. But these were, I was like, I
was giving a, getting a tour of like various

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Speaker 1: perspectives that were all still me.
And of course, this applies to, to anyone, any

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Speaker 1: individual soul, um, that you all
have these valid perspectives as well. And

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Speaker 1: it ended, ended, air quotes, as if
we're ever done, uh, with

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Speaker 1: really a bizarre f- I think you
mentioned like fireworks experience in
pre-planning

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Speaker 1: this episode, where just a whole
bunch of stuff, just symbols and all sorts of 3D

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Speaker 1: imagery. It looked like music
visualization. It was truly wild 'cause I was
sober

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Speaker 1: and kind of in a bad mood, just
watching it all play out in the visual field.
And it

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Speaker 1: was, it was wild, and I think right
after that happened, I got the verbal thought,

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Speaker 1: uh, "Stephen, I hope you believe in
miracles because you just got one." I'm like,

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Speaker 1: "Pssh, I don't know what you're
talking about, but okay. I mean, it looks cool,
but

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it means." And then
of course, right after that, I had the

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Speaker 1: experience where I feel like I got
inverted. Like, I am- Like a

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Speaker 1: hole in the center of the world
shaped like a person. All the thoughts and
emotions

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Speaker 1: and everything, it's all like it's
been flattened. It's all of equal importance
now.

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Speaker 1: Just as im- I- it's just as much me
as the tree is. And I had a sense of self that

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Speaker 1: was my entire field of experience,
and it was so sudden. And like [laughs] I was

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Speaker 1: just kind of grumpy and yeah. Nothing
special had happened right before that, but it

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Speaker 1: was instantaneous, and I had the
realization that this is how it really is. And
then

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Speaker 1: there's a sort of collective like
sigh, like, "Okay, he gets it." And it felt like

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Speaker 1: that was a very special moment, and
maybe that's something we'll get into today. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever felt this,
but it was like this was a threshold moment in

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Speaker 1: a conscious creature's development.
Okay, cool.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: Like you're literally in like a
different echelon now. You're like in a
different

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Speaker 1: category. The things we can do and
say and interact with you, you're like, you
know,

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Speaker 1: you're like bronze tier now or
whatever. [laughs] You c- we can like, if you
can

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Speaker 1: imagine like a Star Trek Prime
Directive sort of thing, there's actually maybe
like

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Speaker 1: categories. I don't know if this is
universal. I doubt it. But in general, I think

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Speaker 1: it, it's at least philosophical, but
probably has more hard rule implications. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm inferring all that.
But this is what it felt like, is intuitively I

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Speaker 1: just knew that like, well, things are
different now. Like the kinds of things I can

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Speaker 1: do and experience and interact with
people and d- they're allowed to do different

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Speaker 1: things now. Uh, you're no longer in
like a protected status. Like you're not in like

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Speaker 1: a nature sanctuary anymore because
you know this. Once you've had this realization,

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Speaker 1: things change. And the reason why,
specifically, again, all intuitive, was

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Speaker 1: that because nobody can stop me now.
It's like you-- if you can get in a rocket ship

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Speaker 1: and go to Venus or whatever, you
know, the people who are hanging out in a
satellite

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Speaker 1: around Venus, I'm not saying any of
this is true, this is just [laughs] just a

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Speaker 1: complete fabricated example. They
can't stop you from visiting now. So nobody's

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Speaker 1: gonna try to contain you anymore
because they can't. They literally can't. And so

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Speaker 1: once you've had realizations of
certain kinds, you can leave, like you can get
out

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Speaker 1: of the, the zoo. [laughs] So there,
there's no point in trying to keep you in it

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Speaker 1: anymore. Uh, and so you're now in a
different... You can do different things. It has

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Speaker 1: real utility. Um, so that's the
summary plus like some of the broader
implications

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Speaker 1: beyond just the personal. Like it, it
matters, uh, in ways that I'm still trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 2: Um, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I- it was really interesting to hear
that experience. Like I think we spoke

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Speaker 2: shortly after you had the initial
experience. You shared it with me, and then to

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Speaker 2: hear it again on the podcast and to
listen and to absorb more and more of that. Um,

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Speaker 2: and, uh, yeah, I don't... I, I feel
like, uh, my

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Speaker 2: meditation practice, uh, is pointing
me in a different

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Speaker 2: direction, um, where much of my f-
focus has been on

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Speaker 2: connecting very deeply with my body
and, uh, getting in touch with the energy that

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Speaker 2: is flowing in through me and is held
in different spaces. I've been doing recently a

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Speaker 2: lot of like meditation around my
sacral chakra and releasing blockages

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Speaker 2: there, and then my, you know, my
chest, my heart center, and opening more and
more.

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Speaker 2: As you were speaking, actually, I
felt that opening up more, which is I, I always

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Speaker 2: take as a sign of synchronicity and
connection and, uh, the path that I'm meant to

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Speaker 2: be on. And, um, yeah, but, uh, so
when I hear

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Speaker 2: about these like y- your capacity to,
um, just through

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Speaker 2: meditation, you know, go to like
these really, into these really deep, uh,

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Speaker 2: altered state experiences, there's a
part of me that's a little jealous and a part

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Speaker 2: of me that's like, "How do I get
there?" [laughs] You know? And, uh, I feel like
you

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Speaker 2: have some kind of a,

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Speaker 2: a unique capacity, or I think we each
have unique capacities, unique skill sets too,

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Speaker 2: um,

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Speaker 2: yeah, that, that are the f- are
foundations for exploration and, um, maybe
there's a

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Speaker 2: convergence. Um,

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Speaker 2: yeah, I actually listened to a
podcast recently which was recounting this

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Speaker 2: book called, um, The Secret of the
Golden Flower, and it's a, a

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Speaker 2: Taoist book. Um,

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Speaker 2: there was a contemporary of Carl
Jung's who traveled to China and

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Speaker 2: was intending to convert the people
there, but then ended up being converted

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Speaker 2: into, you know, their practices, and
this is a, a teaching that has been pa- passed

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Speaker 2: down for millennia, and he was able
to receive the teachings and re- record it. And,

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Speaker 2: uh, what's described in the book just
reminded me a lot of some of the things that

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Speaker 2: you've been describing. Um, they talk
about like, you know, different practices that

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Speaker 2: inev- eventually lead to, you know,
opening up this like inner visual

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Speaker 2: mandala-like flower. You know, like
that, that's kind of like a signifier of like a

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Speaker 2: level of a- of attainment along this
path.

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Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I have more to share, but
that's where my mind or- initially goes to. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious how that lands with you.

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Speaker 1: I love you so much, man. I love you-

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Speaker 2: [laughs] I love you too

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Speaker 1: ... enough to say that you were
feeling jealousy. You know how rare that is? Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is just-

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Speaker 2: [laughs]

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Speaker 1: I can't take it aside, so we're gonna
just leave this in the episode.

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Speaker 2: I, I, yeah, I feel my feelings.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I, I gotta be honest. [laughs]

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Speaker 1: 'Cause you're not g- you're the only
one. I have. I feel it all the time. I feel all

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Speaker 1: the time, uh, when I see people doing
things, and you're right, we do each have

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Speaker 1: unique gifts. There's aptitude. I see
it when I'm doing the psi practices with other

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Speaker 1: people. There are so many that I, no
matter how hard I try, like I can get maybe at

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Speaker 1: most a tiny amount after a lot more
effort than they put in or nothing, and it's

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Speaker 1: very frustrating. Um, so aptitude is
definitely a thing. So I think that, and

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Speaker 1: yes, you could very well be on a
different path of development. Who knows how
many

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Speaker 1: there are? The-- what you're talking
about is working at like a different layer, and

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Speaker 1: all of these are valid. Like they're
different perspectives. Yes, we have a

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Speaker 1: connection through our body to the
Earth, and there are other forms of spiritual

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Speaker 1: connection or energetic connection,
different layers, and it's complicated. They all

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Speaker 1: mix together. I think the reason I
was shown this perspective is because it leads

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Speaker 1: directly into whatever-- what comes
next, which is the Reality 102 experience that

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Speaker 1: happens the very next day. We won't
get into that today.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: But it was-- I needed to know that I
was my entire reality. I needed to like

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Speaker 1: complete that narrative arc that I
was shown in the, the end of Reality 101. "Hey,

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Speaker 1: you are everything. Remember when you
literally felt that you were the things around

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Speaker 1: you and not just yourself?" Uh, not
in like a... Like you were literally made out of

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Speaker 1: the same thing. It's like your body
is just everything you're experiencing. It's

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Speaker 1: what it feels like directly. And I
needed to have that in a waking state
experience,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't like in a trance state.
It just like, bleh. But I had-- I needed to

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Speaker 1: experience that to understand the
lesson that came next, um, because I was being

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Speaker 1: shown like low-level fundamental
rules for reality so that I could share it with

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Speaker 1: other people.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: There are many valid truths and
perspectives, but I was getting this
perspective, so

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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts low-level
consciousness stuff-

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Speaker 2: Hmm

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Speaker 1: ... because it explained a lot of the
other things or would help explain a lot of

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Speaker 1: the other things, and it was very,
uh, useful. But one thing I would say to when
you

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Speaker 1: mentioned you wanted it too, I don't
have a perfect recipe, but for me, this comes

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Speaker 1: at the tail end of five months of
doggedly repeating over and over to myself in

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Speaker 1: meditation throughout the day. Not
just repeating, but believing, investing

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Speaker 1: everything I had into, "This is
really true." Trying to get the belief to the
same

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Speaker 1: level to belief that when you set
your foot down, it doesn't fall through the

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Speaker 1: ground. It's what I was trying to do
with like, "See, wake up, remember," like

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Speaker 1: constantly. I was feeding this thing
like crazy, and then it happened, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that really is the recipe. Uh,
that's, that path will look different for

200
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Speaker 1: everybody else. The effects and maybe
the realization will look different for

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Speaker 1: everybody else. Maybe the insight
that they need-

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Speaker 2: Hmm

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00:14:44,108 --> 00:14:48,028
Speaker 1: ... is different for everyone else.
But I think this is a truth that anyone can get

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Speaker 1: to. That is how I got there. I think
it will work for anyone,

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Speaker 1: uh, because that's the sort of
underlying model, but let's see. [both laugh]
It's

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Speaker 1: a, it's a theory with a sample size
of one right now.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I had a, um... I guess a
lot of my

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Speaker 2: really big spiritual experiences, uh,
have come through psychedelics, and, uh, if

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Speaker 2: you think about like propensities,
um, I have somehow been able to

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Speaker 2: hold space for myself through many
like really big journeys, uh, sometimes going a

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Speaker 2: little too far. Uh, whereas it's, I
must-- I work occasionally as

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Speaker 2: a psychedelic guide and support
people in altered states of consciousness. So I

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Speaker 2: highly recommend if anyone is curious
about exploring to, uh, go on that route. But,

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Speaker 2: um, yeah, because it's just this,
what comes up through a psychedelic journey can
be

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Speaker 2: terrifying, elating, beautiful,
intense suffering, you know, all the things,

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Speaker 2: [chuckles] and ultimately very
profound and transformative. And, uh, and

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Speaker 2: when you were speaking earlier about
like thresholds, um, I thought that I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about my own experience,
and, you know, I've probably gone on like over
100

220
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Speaker 2: journeys at this point, um, with
different medicines, uh, maybe 200. [chuckles]

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Speaker 2: And, uh, yeah, there's definitely
moments where I felt like something unlocked

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Speaker 2: inside of me, and I could, uh, then
descend further or like, you know, go

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Speaker 2: higher or something. I, I f- I think
of it more as like a descending into the depth

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Speaker 2: of myself. Um, and so recently, I had
been thinking about

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Speaker 2: exploring a higher dose LSD, uh,
session,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't really know what a high
dose is. [chuckles] So I actually, actually, I

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Speaker 2: didn't really want... And when I was
intending to go on this journey since our last

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Speaker 2: conversation, I was like, um, "Maybe
I'll just keep it like kind of mild. I'll take

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Speaker 2: 200 micrograms," and, uh, that's two
tabs. Uh, I'd

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Speaker 2: done 100 before, but I'd used
cannabis to help me navigate. Uh, and this time
I was

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Speaker 2: like, "Well, let's just see what
happens." And it started out very mild, and, uh,
I

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Speaker 2: was like, "Okay, this is
interesting." Some tingling, some sensations in
my abdomen,

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Speaker 2: and feeling a little nauseous, and,
um,

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Speaker 2: yeah. And then at some point, uh,

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Speaker 2: yeah, the things shifted, [chuckles]
and, and then I was sucked into this w-

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Speaker 2: incredibly profound altered state.
Um, yeah, hard

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Speaker 2: to even like begin to describe what
that was like. Um, I feel it's like,

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Speaker 2: uh, taking off my skin and realizing
that I am,

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Speaker 2: yeah, everything. Like you said, I am
my whole reality, or, you know, underneath

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Speaker 2: this impression of a self, uh, or
like a body or a mind, a

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Speaker 2: psyche is cosmic consciousness. It's
just like wearing this- ... clo- these

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Speaker 2: clothes or this mask, uh, to perform
the play of, uh,

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Speaker 2: of, uh, life and existence, um, and
explore itself in different perspectives. And it

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Speaker 2: was just so obvious in that space.
Um, somatically, uh, it felt

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Speaker 2: like being in a nuclear fusion
reaction [laughs] where, uh, past and

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Speaker 2: present and all of the universe is
just kind of, like, together in one

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Speaker 2: churning, massive energy orb.
[laughs] And, uh,

248
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Speaker 2: from that space, it was so-- There's
just so much clarity and immediate,

249
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Speaker 2: um,

250
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Speaker 2: like, yeah, or anything could be
immediately possible. You're just like, "Oh
yeah,

251
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Speaker 2: of course this can happen. This is
the path to take." Um,

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Speaker 2: somehow I, I always feel like at some
point I try to send you psychic messages,

253
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Speaker 2: [laughs] so I'm sorry if that
happened at that-

254
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Speaker 1: What?

255
00:19:13,876 --> 00:19:14,816
Speaker 2: ... at that time. [laughs]

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Speaker 1: What did you tell me? Right after we-

257
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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't re- I don't
remember at all.

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Speaker 1: Then how would I know it's from you?

259
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Speaker 2: But it was like I am exploring, like,
s- psychically. Like, it was-- It felt like

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Speaker 2: there was just, like, these energy
channels, and you think of a person, and you

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Speaker 2: think of the energy of that person,
and then it's kind of like a pathway opens up to

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Speaker 2: them.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And so I, I'm sure that I connected
with you and probably other people and it was,

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Speaker 2: you know. [laughs] And coming down,
I'm like, "I should probably close this off and

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Speaker 2: be a little bit more cautious when I
explore in that space." Uh, and then the other

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Speaker 2: thing that comes to mind from that
journey, um, which, you know, this description

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Speaker 2: doesn't do justice to just the, the
magic and power of an experience like that, as

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Speaker 2: you know from your, [laughs] you
know, your altered state experiences. Um, yeah,
uh,

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Speaker 2: there was this-- I, I think I
remember you saying in the last episode that,
you

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Speaker 2: know, you look around and it's like
[clears throat] this branch is like your skin,

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Speaker 2: or this grass you're sitting on is an
extension of yourself. And so it was a very,

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Speaker 2: uh, visceral experience of that. Um,
everything around me just was so much more

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Speaker 2: vibrant, like pulsing with aliveness
and responding directly to my awareness instead

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Speaker 2: of seeming like it's just sitting out
there, you know, like this static little kind

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Speaker 2: of a, you know, a book or a bowl or a
cup or something like that. It's just like

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Speaker 2: this is solid and this is like this,
but instead, in that state, it's like

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Speaker 2: everything is kind of like vibrating
and moving, and I just have this sense that

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Speaker 2: it's all me. Under the surface, it's
all me, you know, and this is just the

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Speaker 2: appearance that it shows, you know,
from this outside perspective. Um,

281
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Speaker 2: yeah, all just, like, all just really
incredible and, uh, so I think, uh, that

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Speaker 2: helped me kind of... A- and then also
going to that state, I know that I've had

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Speaker 2: those experiences so many times
before, and every time I return to that state,
uh,

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Speaker 2: it's like, "Oh yeah, this is who I
really am." Why do I keep forgetting? I have to

285
00:21:14,436 --> 00:21:17,036
Speaker 2: keep reminding myself, you know? Um-

286
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Speaker 1: Why do you keep forgetting? Do you
have any insight on that?

287
00:21:19,136 --> 00:21:24,296
Speaker 2: Why do I keep forgetting? Yeah. It's,
uh... Well, I think the process of, like,

288
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Speaker 2: using a psychedelic is, um,

289
00:21:28,576 --> 00:21:34,216
Speaker 2: it's like dynamite, you know? It's a,
it's a substance that really powerfully alters

290
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Speaker 2: your, your mind and, um, puts you
automatically into this altered state,

291
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Speaker 2: and maybe y- you also have capacities
to go deeper, like I said about the, um,

292
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Speaker 2: you know, being able to go into, uh,
new pla- new plateaus, right? Or deeper

293
00:21:52,216 --> 00:21:55,976
Speaker 2: plateaus and go de- deeper, opening
these kind of like thres- going behind these

294
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Speaker 2: thresholds. Um, so I have, like, a
capacity to go deeper, but it's also like this

295
00:22:01,696 --> 00:22:07,536
Speaker 2: medicine is causing me to, uh,
experience this, you know? And then it, my, uh,

296
00:22:08,176 --> 00:22:13,516
Speaker 2: my body and my mind closes back up
after the medicine leaves my system, and so I'm

297
00:22:13,556 --> 00:22:18,236
Speaker 2: not quite at the developmentally--
Like, I'm not quite at the state where I can
hold

298
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Speaker 2: all of that always, right? Maybe,
like, I get to, uh, get little

299
00:22:24,056 --> 00:22:29,656
Speaker 2: glimpses and, uh, yeah, I think, uh,
I think it's like a glimpse of where I could be

300
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Speaker 2: growing toward, but it's not
something that I can sustain, [laughs] you know?

301
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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

302
00:22:35,276 --> 00:22:39,136
Speaker 2: And you wouldn't want to sustain it
because you have to function in this mundane

303
00:22:39,176 --> 00:22:44,496
Speaker 2: reality. Um, it look- it's like, uh,
we have a

304
00:22:44,556 --> 00:22:50,096
Speaker 2: mutual, uh, mentor named Darren King.
Um, his podcast is, uh, Point of

305
00:22:50,136 --> 00:22:54,516
Speaker 2: Convergence, um, and we've taken some
of his classes together. And he talks about

306
00:22:54,576 --> 00:22:58,276
Speaker 2: these, this protocol that he does,
which I don't think involves psychedelics, but
it

307
00:22:58,336 --> 00:23:03,956
Speaker 2: might. He hasn't really discussed it.
Um, where he's able to exit the construct, he

308
00:23:04,016 --> 00:23:09,696
Speaker 2: calls it, and, uh, he's gone on
several of these excursions and inc- to
increasingly

309
00:23:10,416 --> 00:23:16,176
Speaker 2: further depths of reality, I guess,
or beyond, you know, physical reality. And it's

310
00:23:16,236 --> 00:23:19,856
Speaker 2: a bit like that, you know? Like one,
uh, it kind of felt like that, like I had left

311
00:23:19,896 --> 00:23:23,596
Speaker 2: the construct. But when you are, uh,

312
00:23:25,496 --> 00:23:30,236
Speaker 2: when you're venturing that far, it's,
like, hard to, hard to, like, then make the

313
00:23:30,296 --> 00:23:35,296
Speaker 2: coffee or, like, I'm like, you know,
try- I was trying to, like, make my lunch and

314
00:23:35,336 --> 00:23:38,636
Speaker 2: it's just like, "Oh, my, my hands
don't really work 'cause I'm cosmic

315
00:23:38,696 --> 00:23:42,216
Speaker 2: consciousness." [laughs] And it's
like I need to, like, bring it down a little
bit,

316
00:23:42,336 --> 00:23:48,196
Speaker 2: you know? Uh, so that, that may be,
um... Yeah. I'm curious how,

317
00:23:48,336 --> 00:23:50,336
Speaker 2: curious if you have any thoughts on
that. I'll, I'll pause there.

318
00:23:51,316 --> 00:23:55,716
Speaker 1: I think you're experiencing even
deeper truths. I think that personally,

319
00:23:55,796 --> 00:24:00,116
Speaker 1: psychedelics are showing us something
true. Uh, I do think they stimulate our

320
00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:03,576
Speaker 1: imagination and other things, so it
is... Obviously, you know better about this than

321
00:24:03,676 --> 00:24:06,216
Speaker 1: I would, but I do think it's
cooperative and you're creating-

322
00:24:06,256 --> 00:24:06,276
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

323
00:24:06,276 --> 00:24:09,516
Speaker 1: ... some of the, the experience. But
that's, I think that's because that's true

324
00:24:09,616 --> 00:24:13,676
Speaker 1: also. Uh, but I think you're seeing
something even deeper than what I was

325
00:24:13,736 --> 00:24:19,184
Speaker 1: experiencing, um, 'cause I was
experiencing The same things that you experience

326
00:24:19,224 --> 00:24:23,984
Speaker 1: right now in like a regular waking
life. I didn't have any, you know, sixth sense
or

327
00:24:24,024 --> 00:24:29,344
Speaker 1: like deep intuitive things or new
senses come online. It was literally just like,

328
00:24:29,464 --> 00:24:32,844
Speaker 1: "Oh, I'm everything, but I can still
think." That was the strangest part about my

329
00:24:32,884 --> 00:24:33,244
Speaker 1: experience.

330
00:24:33,264 --> 00:24:33,823
Speaker 2: Mm.

331
00:24:33,823 --> 00:24:37,524
Speaker 1: I can, I can use my hands. I could
talk. I could crack a joke. I could walk around.

332
00:24:37,964 --> 00:24:43,564
Speaker 1: I could do my taxes. But I'm a hole
in the center of my reality.

333
00:24:43,584 --> 00:24:44,004
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

334
00:24:44,084 --> 00:24:48,684
Speaker 1: And like, this is obviously not me.
And I think you were experiencing something even

335
00:24:48,744 --> 00:24:52,744
Speaker 1: deeper, which is probably the
connection of a soul to everything else, right?

336
00:24:52,784 --> 00:24:52,785
Speaker 2: Mm.

337
00:24:52,804 --> 00:24:56,664
Speaker 1: There is no real distinction between
these things. We draw lines at, I won't say

338
00:24:56,744 --> 00:25:01,744
Speaker 1: arbitrary levels, but they are
ultimately just still the same thing. I think
we're

339
00:25:01,784 --> 00:25:05,904
Speaker 1: on board for that philosophy at this
point. I think you were experiencing a much

340
00:25:05,964 --> 00:25:09,604
Speaker 1: deeper kind of connection, way beyond
even the individual soul.

341
00:25:09,864 --> 00:25:09,865
Speaker 2: Mm.

342
00:25:09,904 --> 00:25:10,864
Speaker 1: That would be my take.

343
00:25:11,604 --> 00:25:12,304
Speaker 2: Mm. Mm.

344
00:25:13,124 --> 00:25:15,184
Speaker 1: You're getting way more. It was a
yes, and.

345
00:25:16,604 --> 00:25:20,364
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the thing I really
appreciate about your process is that it's, um,

346
00:25:22,063 --> 00:25:25,424
Speaker 2: that the gradual-- Like I went
through a period where I was doing a lot of

347
00:25:25,464 --> 00:25:31,304
Speaker 2: psychedelics, and then realized that
my body can't sustain this. That, you know, I

348
00:25:31,384 --> 00:25:35,204
Speaker 2: started having these sessions where
as it was just harder and harder to come down

349
00:25:35,244 --> 00:25:38,564
Speaker 2: from them, my body felt like, um,

350
00:25:40,204 --> 00:25:44,464
Speaker 2: frayed wires. You know, my nerves
kind of like... And it was just like, like after

351
00:25:44,504 --> 00:25:46,804
Speaker 2: that LSD journey, I couldn't sleep at
all that night.

352
00:25:46,824 --> 00:25:46,904
Speaker 1: Mm.

353
00:25:47,444 --> 00:25:52,784
Speaker 2: Maybe I got to sleep at like, you
know, 4:00 AM or something. Uh, but it's just

354
00:25:52,824 --> 00:25:57,024
Speaker 2: like, it just opens you up so much
that, uh,

355
00:25:58,644 --> 00:26:04,564
Speaker 2: this current incarnation is like
[chuckles] not quite ready to hold all

356
00:26:04,624 --> 00:26:08,124
Speaker 2: that. But the process that you're
going through is like this incremental, you're

357
00:26:08,164 --> 00:26:13,984
Speaker 2: being guided by your, um, you know,
your soul family, your spirit guides,

358
00:26:14,504 --> 00:26:19,564
Speaker 2: and they're giving you things that
you're, you know, at this current stage, ready
to

359
00:26:19,984 --> 00:26:24,704
Speaker 2: step into, you know? Um, so I, I
don't know. It's interesting. I'm, I'm finding

360
00:26:24,744 --> 00:26:30,004
Speaker 2: myself more and more, uh, like using
psychedelics less, you know? It, it'd been

361
00:26:30,064 --> 00:26:34,284
Speaker 2: quite a while since I'd done any kind
of journey when I wanted to try this LSD

362
00:26:34,344 --> 00:26:36,904
Speaker 2: journey, and as I came down from
that, I was like, "You know, I think I'm good
for

363
00:26:36,964 --> 00:26:38,564
Speaker 2: about a year." [chuckles]

364
00:26:38,564 --> 00:26:38,684
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

365
00:26:38,724 --> 00:26:42,904
Speaker 2: Whereas I went through a period where
I was doing things like that, you know, every

366
00:26:42,984 --> 00:26:48,444
Speaker 2: two weeks or something like that, and
I was just like, it was so... That

367
00:26:49,384 --> 00:26:54,704
Speaker 2: being in that state was so enticing.
You know? Like the, that state of power and

368
00:26:54,784 --> 00:27:00,724
Speaker 2: clarity and, um, energy, you know,
aliveness, was so enticing that I

369
00:27:00,744 --> 00:27:03,764
Speaker 2: was just like drawn back to it. But
at some point, I realized I couldn't sustain it

370
00:27:03,824 --> 00:27:09,284
Speaker 2: anymore, so now I'm like, "Okay, the
gradual path is the, is the path for me." And

371
00:27:09,384 --> 00:27:13,444
Speaker 2: I, I know that this is kind of like
a, a common thread amongst like psychonauts,

372
00:27:13,644 --> 00:27:14,944
Speaker 2: like Ram Dass. You know, he-

373
00:27:15,184 --> 00:27:15,444
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

374
00:27:15,444 --> 00:27:20,384
Speaker 2: ... was a big explorer in the, what?
'70s or '80s, and then, you know, turned more

375
00:27:20,444 --> 00:27:25,964
Speaker 2: towards, uh, meditation. Alan Watts
has said, uh, with psychedel- about

376
00:27:26,044 --> 00:27:30,144
Speaker 2: psychedelics, "Once you pick up--
Once you get the call, pick up the phone. Once

377
00:27:30,204 --> 00:27:34,504
Speaker 2: you, once you receive the message,
pick up..." Uh, "Once you receive the message,

378
00:27:36,244 --> 00:27:38,124
Speaker 2: hang up the phone." [chuckles]
That's, uh, that's what it is.

379
00:27:39,424 --> 00:27:40,244
Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't keep doing it.

380
00:27:40,264 --> 00:27:41,004
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

381
00:27:41,024 --> 00:27:42,844
Speaker 1: Now you're just hitting the button
over and over again.

382
00:27:43,084 --> 00:27:45,364
Speaker 2: Yeah. [chuckles]

383
00:27:45,444 --> 00:27:49,084
Speaker 1: Well, one of the nice parts of doing
it the gradual way, and I would describe it the

384
00:27:49,144 --> 00:27:52,984
Speaker 1: same way, is that it is, you bring it
into your everyday life.

385
00:27:53,364 --> 00:27:53,384
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

386
00:27:53,424 --> 00:27:57,804
Speaker 1: I'm not in that kind of state all the
time. It's actually very hard to get back to

387
00:27:57,924 --> 00:28:02,784
Speaker 1: even that level of like, uh, like
non-dual realization. But with deliberate

388
00:28:02,824 --> 00:28:07,604
Speaker 1: practice, I find that my av- I find
that my average state is more and more like

389
00:28:07,664 --> 00:28:12,924
Speaker 1: that. Like I am moving or shifting
around my entire reality when I walk, when I

390
00:28:13,144 --> 00:28:17,804
Speaker 1: think, when I do stuff. Like they're
all-- My thoughts and emotions are more

391
00:28:17,864 --> 00:28:22,124
Speaker 1: co-equal with my surroundings and
with other people's thoughts and emotions.
They're

392
00:28:22,164 --> 00:28:27,124
Speaker 1: like, more like fields, as some
people describe them. It's like a thing I'm
pouring

393
00:28:27,784 --> 00:28:33,184
Speaker 1: my experience, my influence into,
rather than a thing that is just mine. And so

394
00:28:33,224 --> 00:28:37,544
Speaker 1: there's all these other experiences
that like become a different waking state when

395
00:28:37,583 --> 00:28:40,564
Speaker 1: you can stabilize it like this. So
I'm not like that all the time-

396
00:28:40,584 --> 00:28:40,624
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

397
00:28:40,624 --> 00:28:46,064
Speaker 1: ... but I, I bring in these
capacities into my waking state just by default.
It just

398
00:28:46,124 --> 00:28:51,504
Speaker 1: seems to happen. And I've learned a
lot, almost just, just direct experience, of

399
00:28:51,544 --> 00:28:56,144
Speaker 1: course, but I've alm- learned almost
enough through, like you've said, I'm in like

400
00:28:56,204 --> 00:29:00,924
Speaker 1: telepathic communication largely with
my sister and mother most of the time, but

401
00:29:01,024 --> 00:29:06,984
Speaker 1: others too. Um, and it's just pretty
chill, but it's mostly, uh,

402
00:29:07,824 --> 00:29:11,584
Speaker 1: a lot of it is about instruction
and... But it's really instruction through
doing.

403
00:29:11,624 --> 00:29:14,784
Speaker 1: It's through living, right? What does
this mean? Ah, what did that happen?

404
00:29:14,824 --> 00:29:18,284
Speaker 1: [chuckles] It's, it's not like, uh,
the lectures are few and far between. It was

405
00:29:18,304 --> 00:29:23,064
Speaker 1: like six months between the next
lecture. Um, one of the things that came to mind

406
00:29:24,284 --> 00:29:27,824
Speaker 1: is how like non-physical people, who
are in these kinds of states all the time or

407
00:29:27,904 --> 00:29:33,884
Speaker 1: can move around them freely, how they
experience life, I don't know for sure, but I

408
00:29:33,944 --> 00:29:37,944
Speaker 1: would, uh, reason that my, my twin,
who's not physical,

409
00:29:39,824 --> 00:29:44,084
Speaker 1: s- has spent most of her life, if not
all of her life, that way. And so she makes an

410
00:29:44,144 --> 00:29:47,824
Speaker 1: excellent study in like, what would
you be like if you were like that all the time?

411
00:29:48,624 --> 00:29:50,304
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

412
00:29:50,344 --> 00:29:53,844
Speaker 1: And I know that when I get like
really depressive or really upset, just life
stuff,

413
00:29:54,124 --> 00:29:59,424
Speaker 1: life is hard, and I'm caught up in
it. She, at least for a while, had a really hard

414
00:29:59,484 --> 00:30:04,144
Speaker 1: time understanding why I was so
upset. I wrote down like the exact quote. I read
it

415
00:30:04,184 --> 00:30:09,864
Speaker 1: right before this episode, which was,
"This is just a game. We're just

416
00:30:09,924 --> 00:30:11,464
Speaker 1: playing. That's not you."

417
00:30:11,684 --> 00:30:11,685
Speaker 2: Mm.

418
00:30:11,684 --> 00:30:17,104
Speaker 1: "This isn't me." Like I could feel
the frustration. Like, "Why are you so upset? I

419
00:30:17,264 --> 00:30:19,824
Speaker 1: wanna help you, but I don't
understand like why you're so upset."

420
00:30:19,864 --> 00:30:19,865
Speaker 2: Mm.

421
00:30:19,864 --> 00:30:20,524
Speaker 1: Like she knew.

422
00:30:20,564 --> 00:30:20,684
Speaker 2: Mm.

423
00:30:20,724 --> 00:30:25,064
Speaker 1: Like it's not like-- They're not
dumb. They, they understand like you're
associated

424
00:30:25,104 --> 00:30:29,224
Speaker 1: with yourself and your thoughts, your
emotions. So I'm, I'm upset 'cause this thing

425
00:30:29,264 --> 00:30:34,820
Speaker 1: happened or because I feel miserable
about this idea. But for them it,

426
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,220
Speaker 1: I think it's much more obvious
because they're in a state kind of like the

427
00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:42,500
Speaker 1: experience we just described, where
it is directly experientially obvious that your

428
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: thoughts and emotions are not yours.
They're just happening. Like, you can create

429
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: them, but you don't have to have
them. Even your body is just an expression of

430
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: yourself. Even your surroundings is
just an expression that you can switch up

431
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: whenever you want to. Why are you so
upset about this thing? Just dump that thought.

432
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: Like, you're not having fun with it.
Just, just why are you... I don't get it.

433
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

434
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,580
Speaker 1: So I-- that is just as much
instruction as, like, the direct experience is
seeing

435
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:06,020
Speaker 1: the contrast between us.

436
00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:07,540
Speaker 2: Hmm.

437
00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: I would say, "You don't know how hard
it is to be down here sometimes. [chuckles]

438
00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: Come on, give me a break."

439
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:19,020
Speaker 1: I can be petty. [both laughing]

440
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:19,460
Speaker 2: Yeah.

441
00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:21,620
Speaker 2: Hmm.

442
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,940
Speaker 2: I've, I've heard of, uh, um,

443
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: yeah, that humans are unique amongst,
uh, intelligent species,

444
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,500
Speaker 2: uh, across the universe. Um,

445
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,260
Speaker 2: um, and that they are--

446
00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:48,420
Speaker 2: Th- that, that this experience of
being separate, being separated from source or,

447
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: like, the deeper layers of reality
is, uh, a unique experience.

448
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,860
Speaker 1: It certainly is. It can be uniquely
miserable, too.

449
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

450
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: I think one of the strangest things
about going along this like, I guess, a path of

451
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:10,180
Speaker 1: progression, of being shown how it
really is, at least in some perspectives, is
that

452
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: it's a lot easier to, like, get
outside of behind my thoughts and emotions and
just

453
00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:19,580
Speaker 1: see them as a thing that is
happening. I think that is the normal experience
for

454
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: most conscious entities. That is the
gist that I get as well, is that we're

455
00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: oddballs and that we s- kinda like
toddlers. We still think that this is all ours.

456
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:36,220
Speaker 1: It's like you get, uh, you know, my
kids especially when they're really young, like,

457
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: they run into the door, they get
angry at the door. Like, "This dumb door hit
me."

458
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:40,001
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

459
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: It's like we're still stuck at that
level in a lot of ways. Um, and I had

460
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: noticed that as I progress a l- you
know, this awareness gets baked in. I make it

461
00:32:50,140 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: sound like I've done something
amazing. It's just happening to me. Like I'm,
I'm

462
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: leaning into it and I am practicing,
but I think it's just a thing like walking that

463
00:32:56,860 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: anyone can do. Like you already know
how. It's a natural thing. Like you'll ke-

464
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: you'll get there if you want the same
experiences because this is how it is. I think

465
00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: that it's weird to me that I can
still think and feel emotion. Like I can still
go

466
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,100
Speaker 1: back down, air quotes, "down" into
like being associated with my experience. I can

467
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:20,940
Speaker 1: play a video game or get lost in
music, and I'm not thinking the whole time, "Oh,

468
00:33:20,980 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: this is an illusion. This is all
fake."

469
00:33:22,660 --> 00:33:22,661
Speaker 2: Mm.

470
00:33:22,660 --> 00:33:25,700
Speaker 1: "I'm just creating it." Like, no, I'm
in it. I'm in it totally.

471
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:26,140
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

472
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: Just as much as I was before. But-

473
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah

474
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: ... I can also stop doing that and
go, "Meh." Not always. I'm not perfect. You
know,

475
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:38,700
Speaker 1: I still get tightly associated and
caught up in my own drama like anyone. But that

476
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,380
Speaker 1: is less and less becoming my default
state. How can it not be? Once you've had these

477
00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: experiences, you never go back to the
same shape once you've had experiences like

478
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: this, and you keep practicing it. So
it's like you have the option to be exactly as

479
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,420
Speaker 1: you are right now. You, you're not
gonna lose that. I found that very reassuring

480
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: 'cause it always scared me to unwind
myself this much. But you can continue to do

481
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: it. You can be exactly as you are
right now if you want to be, at any point in
time.

482
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: But the moment you're tired of that,
you can go, "I think I'm gonna go back to a

483
00:34:08,620 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: non-dual chill. I feel like I'm
everything," or whatever. Do whatever you want.
And

484
00:34:14,060 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: you have control. That's the
difference. You get awareness and then control,
and you

485
00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:23,260
Speaker 1: have a choice now. Uh, and that was
very reassuring for me 'cause I thought that I

486
00:34:23,260 --> 00:34:29,260
Speaker 1: would be stuck like that. The
[chuckles] expanding gives you the optionality

487
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: to be expanded and to have more-

488
00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah

489
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,900
Speaker 1: ... awareness and control over your
reality, but you don't have to. You can still

490
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,660
Speaker 1: just be a dude chilling, like playing
a video game.

491
00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

492
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,900
Speaker 1: You don't have to be burdened by this
greater knowledge and awareness. You can put

493
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: it on. You can scale up and down.
It's like the ceiling goes up. You can go back
to

494
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: your old level, but you don't lose
the ability to be expanded or to, to stop caring

495
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,999
Speaker 1: about things that don't matter or to
shift your experience of what's actually

496
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,740
Speaker 1: happening around you. You, you get
more, but it doesn't end up being less. You can

497
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: still be smaller if you want to. You
don't lose it.

498
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:02,121
Speaker 2: Hmm.

499
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: So there's really nothing to lose,
except for if you want the confinement for some

500
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: reason.

501
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:07,001
Speaker 2: Yeah.

502
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,100
Speaker 1: Then I guess you lose that.

503
00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:13,500
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting. I
have thought a lot about this and just

504
00:35:13,540 --> 00:35:18,660
Speaker 2: experiencing more recently. Like, I
used to love playing video games. I used to love

505
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: watching television shows. I was big
into Marvel movies and, uh, yeah,

506
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:30,220
Speaker 2: everything, you know. Um,
consumption, you know. I was a consumer of
popular media

507
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 2: and, uh, there was a period in my
life when maybe that was satisfying. But, um,

508
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,900
Speaker 2: yeah, I don't know. Like, it's
interesting as it, like coming into this world,
you

509
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: know, from that, I, I believe that
we're, you know, when we die, uh, or perhaps

510
00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: already, you know, like there's a,
like you've shared about in your last, last

511
00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: episode, there's these, these
different selves that exist on different layers
of

512
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: reality. So, you know, there's a part
of you that is in that higher state, uh, or

513
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: I don't even wanna call it higher
'cause I don't wanna say that there's a
hierarchy.

514
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: But, um,

515
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,020
Speaker 2: that isn't confined to this material
realm, you know, of, uh, matter and time,

516
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: physicalism. Uh, but when you're in
that higher state, uh, I imagine that I look

517
00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: down on this and it's almost like a
video game. It's like The Sims or World of

518
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: Warcraft, like a massively... We ta-
I mentioned this last time too, the massively

519
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,420
Speaker 2: online multiplayer game, you know,
uh, where we're all creating this reality

520
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: together. But it's like, "Oh, well,
that looks fun. Let me, let me go in there and

521
00:36:38,780 --> 00:36:43,996
Speaker 2: experience that." But in order to
really Get into the game, we have to

522
00:36:44,636 --> 00:36:50,236
Speaker 2: forget that anything else exists, you
know? And then, you know, you can just fall in

523
00:36:50,255 --> 00:36:55,556
Speaker 2: love with everything and experience
everything as if it's, um, real, you know? Uh,

524
00:36:56,556 --> 00:37:01,916
Speaker 2: and, uh, I, I think about, I think
about that and I'm like, you know, the first
time

525
00:37:01,996 --> 00:37:05,456
Speaker 2: trying ice cream, you know? The first
time having sex.

526
00:37:06,056 --> 00:37:06,156
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

527
00:37:06,276 --> 00:37:11,476
Speaker 2: The first time playing a video game.
Zelda, Nintendo 64, Ocarina of Time, like one

528
00:37:11,516 --> 00:37:15,396
Speaker 2: of my first, like, games that I
really fell in love with, you know? And now if I

529
00:37:15,416 --> 00:37:20,876
Speaker 2: were to go back and play that, I'd be
like, "Well, this is... Eh." [laughs] You

530
00:37:20,916 --> 00:37:26,076
Speaker 2: know? Um, and I, I like-- It's so
hard for me to find anything that I'm,

531
00:37:27,356 --> 00:37:30,436
Speaker 2: like, in terms of popular media, that
I'm actually, like, really interested in,

532
00:37:30,516 --> 00:37:36,016
Speaker 2: because nothing really satisfies, uh,
the, I guess, the

533
00:37:37,316 --> 00:37:41,496
Speaker 2: interest that I have now, or the
developmental level I've sort of reached or, you

534
00:37:41,556 --> 00:37:46,595
Speaker 2: know, reflects some of these higher
realities that I've begun to contemplate.

535
00:37:47,296 --> 00:37:51,736
Speaker 2: So I, I think of, like, also The
Matrix, like this red pill, blue pill, right?
Which

536
00:37:51,796 --> 00:37:54,276
Speaker 2: is the one that keeps you in the
matrix? The blue pill, I think. [laughs]

537
00:37:54,296 --> 00:37:54,936
Speaker 1: The blue pill, yeah.

538
00:37:55,016 --> 00:37:58,536
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I don't think I could
take the blue pill. I mean, I kind of wish

539
00:37:58,576 --> 00:38:02,916
Speaker 2: sometimes that I could take the blue
pill, and, like, just go back and believe that

540
00:38:02,956 --> 00:38:08,236
Speaker 2: this is all, like, like money matters
and, [laughs] you know, um, uh, a life where I

541
00:38:08,236 --> 00:38:08,237
Speaker 2: get to play-

542
00:38:08,236 --> 00:38:09,196
Speaker 1: Well, you took the blue pill to get
here.

543
00:38:10,676 --> 00:38:13,376
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get to-- I took the blue pill
to get here, but gra- like, I've been taking

544
00:38:13,476 --> 00:38:15,896
Speaker 2: little red pills my whole life since
then. [laughs]

545
00:38:17,496 --> 00:38:23,236
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a good analogy.
I've said that you do get to take the red pill
if

546
00:38:23,316 --> 00:38:27,476
Speaker 1: you go on this sort of path of
spiritual progression. Ugh, that's the word,

547
00:38:27,576 --> 00:38:29,696
Speaker 1: spiritual. It's-- This is how it is.
It's reality.

548
00:38:29,736 --> 00:38:29,776
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

549
00:38:29,816 --> 00:38:31,516
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. This is no
difference.

550
00:38:32,016 --> 00:38:32,036
Speaker 2: Yeah.

551
00:38:32,096 --> 00:38:37,916
Speaker 1: It's, uh, you get the red pill, but
then you still live in the matrix. Like, this

552
00:38:37,976 --> 00:38:38,796
Speaker 1: is, like, the biggest-

553
00:38:38,836 --> 00:38:38,856
Speaker 2: Hmm.

554
00:38:38,876 --> 00:38:43,796
Speaker 1: Like, you gotta be kidding me. What?
I have to go back? [laughs] No. No, I know it's

555
00:38:43,836 --> 00:38:46,016
Speaker 1: all real, but now I'm here still.
Like-

556
00:38:46,096 --> 00:38:46,276
Speaker 2: Yeah.

557
00:38:47,196 --> 00:38:50,956
Speaker 1: And I've often had-- I like to take
the perspective that it's all real, and this is

558
00:38:51,016 --> 00:38:54,436
Speaker 1: a choice, right? It's, it's... Is
nothing real? Is everything real? I feel like

559
00:38:54,476 --> 00:38:58,796
Speaker 1: that's a fundamental decision. Uh, or
you, you can try, like, graduated, like, oh,

560
00:38:58,876 --> 00:39:04,756
Speaker 1: this is real and this isn't. But I
prefer to treat it as it's all real, um, 'cause

561
00:39:04,796 --> 00:39:08,876
Speaker 1: that's, that's more meaningful to me.
And, but I've experienced what you're

562
00:39:08,916 --> 00:39:13,416
Speaker 1: experiencing too, and I think that
from my conversations with, you know, our mutual

563
00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:17,076
Speaker 1: friends and other friends that I have
that are doing this kind of thing, you just

564
00:39:17,156 --> 00:39:21,916
Speaker 1: stop caring about materialistic
things. You stop going for cheap dopamine fixes.
The

565
00:39:21,956 --> 00:39:26,476
Speaker 1: kinds of easy, cheap entertainment or
stimulation that used to do it for you, they

566
00:39:26,576 --> 00:39:31,996
Speaker 1: fall away naturally. Uh, sometimes
you can still enjoy them, but I think in a lot
of

567
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:37,056
Speaker 1: ways it's like growing out of, like,
eating, uh, crappy candy or junk food that

568
00:39:37,096 --> 00:39:39,156
Speaker 1: doesn't taste good. You have higher
standards now.

569
00:39:39,456 --> 00:39:39,457
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

570
00:39:39,476 --> 00:39:44,356
Speaker 1: And it's generally a good thing, and
it's because you're after something else. So

571
00:39:44,396 --> 00:39:48,276
Speaker 1: that's, like, healthy. It's not like
you became numb to it so much as it's just,

572
00:39:48,336 --> 00:39:48,496
Speaker 1: like,

573
00:39:50,176 --> 00:39:55,516
Speaker 1: for me, it feels less meaningful now,
and I, I'm after something that takes a little

574
00:39:55,576 --> 00:39:58,796
Speaker 1: more effort to cultivate, but also
has more richness and dimension to it.

575
00:39:58,936 --> 00:39:58,937
Speaker 2: Right.

576
00:39:58,956 --> 00:40:02,036
Speaker 1: It's not just like-- It has
complexity in its flavor. If we're using the
food

577
00:40:02,096 --> 00:40:04,996
Speaker 1: analogy, it's not just sweet,
artificial flavor.

578
00:40:07,596 --> 00:40:11,736
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all of that, uh, media that
I used to be into was like, oh, here's stories

579
00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:16,996
Speaker 2: about superheroes. Here's a video
game where you get to have cool magic powers.
And,

580
00:40:17,056 --> 00:40:22,956
Speaker 2: uh, the more I deepen into these
practices, it's like, wait a minute, I can do
that

581
00:40:23,016 --> 00:40:28,876
Speaker 2: for real. [laughs] Uh, my, my buddy
Steven over here can

582
00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:31,836
Speaker 2: see without eyes and spin a, uh, a,

583
00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:36,636
Speaker 2: a psi wheel around. [laughs]

584
00:40:36,736 --> 00:40:37,156
Speaker 1: So can you.

585
00:40:37,776 --> 00:40:41,256
Speaker 2: Yeah, so can I, you know? I need, I
need to, I need to invest the 30 hours of

586
00:40:41,296 --> 00:40:42,336
Speaker 2: practice. [laughs]

587
00:40:42,376 --> 00:40:43,496
Speaker 1: Feels like you have less than that.

588
00:40:43,516 --> 00:40:49,356
Speaker 2: [laughs] And, uh, my daughter this
morning was like, "I

589
00:40:49,436 --> 00:40:54,876
Speaker 2: wish I could fly. I wish humans could
fly." And I was like, "Well, there is this

590
00:40:54,936 --> 00:40:56,636
Speaker 2: book called They Flew-

591
00:40:57,056 --> 00:40:57,316
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

592
00:40:57,316 --> 00:41:03,296
Speaker 2: ... which is a historical study of
accounts from the medieval times when,

593
00:41:03,516 --> 00:41:08,076
Speaker 2: you know, these monastics, um,
Christian monastics would get in such ecstatic
states

594
00:41:08,136 --> 00:41:13,696
Speaker 2: for their love of the divine, Jesus
or God or, you know, divinity,

595
00:41:14,396 --> 00:41:19,416
Speaker 2: that they flew. And there were
hundreds of people that witnessed these events,
and

596
00:41:19,456 --> 00:41:24,916
Speaker 2: it happened numerous times. Uh, and
the conclusion of this academic who's

597
00:41:24,956 --> 00:41:30,896
Speaker 2: researching this is they flew.
[laughs] And, uh, yeah, I

598
00:41:30,956 --> 00:41:36,576
Speaker 2: read Autobiography of a Yogi: The,
The Life of Yogananda when I was in college.

599
00:41:37,736 --> 00:41:42,516
Speaker 2: And, uh, that starts this, basically
this who- whole account of all of these yogis

600
00:41:42,576 --> 00:41:48,336
Speaker 2: and the incredible yogic superpowers
that they have. Uh, [laughs] and there's a part

601
00:41:48,356 --> 00:41:51,976
Speaker 2: of, there's a part of me that's just
like, I don't think I believed it back then,

602
00:41:52,196 --> 00:41:56,116
Speaker 2: you know, when I was younger. I was
like, a part of me wanted to believe it and so

603
00:41:56,156 --> 00:42:00,196
Speaker 2: that's why I took up meditation.
[laughs] That's the part of me that's like,
that's

604
00:42:00,216 --> 00:42:05,436
Speaker 2: why I started meditating. Um, you
know, there's accounts of, like, yog- yogis or

605
00:42:05,956 --> 00:42:08,716
Speaker 2: people who would, like, fly and shoot
fire out of their hands. Like, basically

606
00:42:08,776 --> 00:42:13,696
Speaker 2: anything like a superhero, modern-day
Marvel superhero could do, uh, there are

607
00:42:13,756 --> 00:42:17,296
Speaker 2: accounts of it happening, happening
in human history. [laughs]

608
00:42:17,336 --> 00:42:20,976
Speaker 1: So I believe this is true. I've heard
similar accounts through Dean Radin's book-

609
00:42:21,116 --> 00:42:21,117
Speaker 2: Hmm

610
00:42:21,116 --> 00:42:25,896
Speaker 1: ... where people have levitated in
front of hundreds of people, and clearly before
a

611
00:42:25,956 --> 00:42:28,316
Speaker 1: time where wires or special effects
were possible.

612
00:42:28,836 --> 00:42:28,916
Speaker 2: Yeah.

613
00:42:28,936 --> 00:42:34,656
Speaker 1: You know? Uh, this was, this is what
happened. And I think that it is

614
00:42:34,716 --> 00:42:36,816
Speaker 1: possible. Those are extreme moments.

615
00:42:37,316 --> 00:42:37,496
Speaker 2: Yeah.

616
00:42:38,196 --> 00:42:38,496
Speaker 1: And

617
00:42:40,236 --> 00:42:43,596
Speaker 1: for me, th- I want the same thing. I
want superpowers, but, uh, the reason we're

618
00:42:43,656 --> 00:42:46,036
Speaker 1: talking right now is I want everybody
else to have them too.

619
00:42:46,176 --> 00:42:46,296
Speaker 2: Yeah.

620
00:42:46,872 --> 00:42:50,652
Speaker 1: For, for two reasons. This is how
reality really is. Yes, we're living a physical

621
00:42:50,692 --> 00:42:54,792
Speaker 1: experience, and it's cool to be able
to confine yourself for the challenge or

622
00:42:54,811 --> 00:42:58,072
Speaker 1: whatever, but it's really lame to
believe that's all there is, and you can't do

623
00:42:58,112 --> 00:43:02,992
Speaker 1: anything else, and to be trapped here
in an endless cycle. Uh, and I think that's

624
00:43:03,012 --> 00:43:06,572
Speaker 1: where humanity is, is we're
miserable. In the best-case scenario, it's cool
to do,

625
00:43:06,752 --> 00:43:10,232
Speaker 1: you know, play on hard mode and live
a physical existence. In the worst-case

626
00:43:10,292 --> 00:43:14,092
Speaker 1: scenario, it looks like we've created
a 1984 scenario for ourselves-

627
00:43:14,112 --> 00:43:14,172
Speaker 2: Hmm

628
00:43:14,172 --> 00:43:18,332
Speaker 1: ... where we're, we're trapped in our
own little thought prison because we don't

629
00:43:18,392 --> 00:43:21,812
Speaker 1: know that you can have more, that you
can levitate, and you can shoot fire out of

630
00:43:21,832 --> 00:43:25,532
Speaker 1: your hands. It'll be really hard to
do that right now.

631
00:43:26,192 --> 00:43:26,372
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

632
00:43:26,572 --> 00:43:31,072
Speaker 1: The reason these experiences matter
is that awareness always precedes control. Those

633
00:43:31,112 --> 00:43:34,732
Speaker 1: people did those things intuitively
as extreme outliers.

634
00:43:35,372 --> 00:43:35,512
Speaker 2: Hmm.

635
00:43:35,552 --> 00:43:39,992
Speaker 1: They could not have possibly taught
anyone how to do it. Or they meditated for 30

636
00:43:40,052 --> 00:43:44,972
Speaker 1: years under a waterfall until they
just, like, had their entire reality in a vice

637
00:43:45,012 --> 00:43:48,692
Speaker 1: grip. They could not have possibly
shown anyone else how to do it, and obviously,

638
00:43:48,772 --> 00:43:54,552
Speaker 1: that's not practical for most people.
But if we all start to change it, we all

639
00:43:54,652 --> 00:43:58,852
Speaker 1: gain a measure of awareness. Like
real- there's no difference between a physical
and

640
00:43:58,892 --> 00:44:03,472
Speaker 1: a non-physical reality as far as I
can tell. It is the same thing. It's just a

641
00:44:03,512 --> 00:44:08,892
Speaker 1: different rule set. We could change
it if we all push on it. We all change what it

642
00:44:08,952 --> 00:44:13,132
Speaker 1: means 'cause we have that control.
The inner senses that we thought were weak were

643
00:44:13,172 --> 00:44:16,872
Speaker 1: actually incredibly powerful. In-
intuition, you know-

644
00:44:16,972 --> 00:44:17,072
Speaker 2: Hmm

645
00:44:17,072 --> 00:44:21,052
Speaker 1: ... belief, imagination, all of these
things are actually very powerful. But the

646
00:44:21,092 --> 00:44:23,532
Speaker 1: world around us has been made heavy
by those-

647
00:44:23,572 --> 00:44:23,592
Speaker 2: Hmm

648
00:44:23,592 --> 00:44:28,472
Speaker 1: ... same forces. They have, like, a
momentum. They're, these psychic power... Flying

649
00:44:28,532 --> 00:44:33,312
Speaker 1: is hard because we've spent a very
long time believing none of this is possible.

650
00:44:33,812 --> 00:44:37,912
Speaker 1: There's this weight to everything. I
think some of it is built in, too. I think that

651
00:44:37,972 --> 00:44:43,652
Speaker 1: this is just a lower [chuckles] magic
or heavier place, probably by design. It's

652
00:44:43,692 --> 00:44:48,792
Speaker 1: nice that way. But we're kind of
stuck in a hellish scenario now where we don't
know

653
00:44:48,832 --> 00:44:53,972
Speaker 1: that we can do more. We can, we can
change it. We don't have to. And you can do it

654
00:44:54,012 --> 00:44:58,892
Speaker 1: at the individual level, and it
always starts with realizing you can, and then
you

655
00:44:58,952 --> 00:45:04,072
Speaker 1: do it directly. It's, it's very
strange, but once you have awareness over how it

656
00:45:04,132 --> 00:45:07,852
Speaker 1: works, like, directly, not just
conceptually, you're experiencing it, you can
begin

657
00:45:07,892 --> 00:45:11,652
Speaker 1: to control it. And it's not a lot.
Like, I can move a piece of tinfoil without

658
00:45:11,712 --> 00:45:16,612
Speaker 1: touching it. I can move it under
glass without touching it. That's pretty cool. I

659
00:45:16,652 --> 00:45:20,832
Speaker 1: can see without eyes. That's pretty
cool. But anyone could do that, and these are,

660
00:45:20,872 --> 00:45:22,972
Speaker 1: like, perception. It's obviously-

661
00:45:23,012 --> 00:45:23,072
Speaker 2: Hmm

662
00:45:23,072 --> 00:45:27,372
Speaker 1: ... not super strong. I'm not lifting
a car. I'm not seeing across the world in real

663
00:45:27,432 --> 00:45:31,512
Speaker 1: time or into the past. I think all of
those things are possible. There are no real

664
00:45:31,592 --> 00:45:36,692
Speaker 1: rules. Most of the rules are soft
rules, and we can change them, but everyone
around

665
00:45:36,732 --> 00:45:40,592
Speaker 1: me is, like, acting like dampeners.
[laughs] It's super hard.

666
00:45:40,712 --> 00:45:41,312
Speaker 2: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

667
00:45:41,352 --> 00:45:45,012
Speaker 1: You can change your own reality
because you are your own reality. Like, that's,

668
00:45:45,052 --> 00:45:50,032
Speaker 1: like, what I was shown, and then it
kept being true, and then I experienced it. D-

669
00:45:50,072 --> 00:45:52,532
Speaker 1: the reason you can move a piece of
tinfoil is 'cause you're moving yourself. The

670
00:45:52,552 --> 00:45:56,032
Speaker 1: reason you can see without eyes is
because you're seeing yourself. Like, of course

671
00:45:56,052 --> 00:45:59,952
Speaker 1: you can. We are each our own entire
reality, and they overlap in ways, you know,

672
00:46:00,052 --> 00:46:02,212
Speaker 1: we'll get around to based on what I
was shown anyway-

673
00:46:03,132 --> 00:46:03,152
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm

674
00:46:03,152 --> 00:46:08,612
Speaker 1: ... from my understanding. And that's
why you can do it. And you can alter your own

675
00:46:08,652 --> 00:46:14,392
Speaker 1: reality however you want, but you are
also overlapping everyone around you. And

676
00:46:14,712 --> 00:46:19,792
Speaker 1: we're all influencing each other, and
we could do anything if only we, like, enabled

677
00:46:19,832 --> 00:46:25,692
Speaker 1: ourselves to do it. We work together
on this. Um, but I think some small b-

678
00:46:25,912 --> 00:46:28,832
Speaker 1: bit of hope here is that every time
somebody does something like this, I think it's

679
00:46:28,892 --> 00:46:32,652
Speaker 1: easier for everyone else to do it.
I've seen that with Mindsight, with telekinesis.

680
00:46:32,992 --> 00:46:36,812
Speaker 1: The people I show it to, especially
in person, they get it like that. Metal bending,

681
00:46:37,632 --> 00:46:41,572
Speaker 1: uh, I've bent a s- a fork into a
knot, like, recently-

682
00:46:41,592 --> 00:46:42,392
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

683
00:46:42,392 --> 00:46:46,152
Speaker 1: ... at the meditation retreat. Metal
bending's really hard for me alone. You give

684
00:46:46,192 --> 00:46:47,092
Speaker 1: me, like, four hours-

685
00:46:47,132 --> 00:46:47,152
Speaker 2: Hmm

686
00:46:47,152 --> 00:46:52,932
Speaker 1: ... I could bend a spoon. But it's
maybe 50/50. It's not easy. But I just

687
00:46:52,972 --> 00:46:55,712
Speaker 1: walked up and did it in front of a
group of five or six people who were all very

688
00:46:55,772 --> 00:47:00,212
Speaker 1: excited, and they all believed it was
possible, and then they did it. And, like, uh,

689
00:47:00,792 --> 00:47:04,372
Speaker 1: and now they can go home and do it
too, and they could not have done it before.
It's

690
00:47:04,412 --> 00:47:09,112
Speaker 1: like it, it cross-contaminates. Every
time you do it, and no matter where you are,

691
00:47:09,192 --> 00:47:11,112
Speaker 1: it seems to get easier for everyone
else. So-

692
00:47:11,392 --> 00:47:11,452
Speaker 2: Hmm

693
00:47:11,472 --> 00:47:14,792
Speaker 1: ... the good news is, is it's getting
easier all the time. I think that's why we see

694
00:47:14,852 --> 00:47:15,132
Speaker 1: so many-

695
00:47:15,192 --> 00:47:15,232
Speaker 2: Hmm

696
00:47:15,232 --> 00:47:19,292
Speaker 1: ... UFOs and people are talking about
psychic powers. I think it's literally getting

697
00:47:19,412 --> 00:47:24,112
Speaker 1: easier to do. So all that to say,
tell your daughter is, like, learning how to fly

698
00:47:24,152 --> 00:47:25,952
Speaker 1: is getting easier by the day.
[laughs]

699
00:47:25,972 --> 00:47:28,212
Speaker 2: [laughs] Oh, good response. Good
response. I'll try that.

700
00:47:28,592 --> 00:47:28,732
Speaker 1: Yeah.

701
00:47:28,772 --> 00:47:31,492
Speaker 2: She seems to be developing a very
skeptical bent. Uh-

702
00:47:31,972 --> 00:47:36,492
Speaker 1: Well, maybe not then. [laughs]

703
00:47:36,532 --> 00:47:40,512
Speaker 2: [laughs] Um, yeah, maybe I need to
get her some church or something. [laughs] I

704
00:47:40,552 --> 00:47:45,812
Speaker 2: know. Um, yeah, no, this is really
fascinating. I think you said everything that I,

705
00:47:46,792 --> 00:47:52,692
Speaker 2: how I would've responded to that, you
know. Um, that, uh, uh, these

706
00:47:52,752 --> 00:47:57,612
Speaker 2: people who experience these, um,
incredible feats... Well, now from this

707
00:47:57,652 --> 00:48:02,952
Speaker 2: perspective, we think of, like,
flying as an incredible feat. But, uh, a
different

708
00:48:03,012 --> 00:48:08,632
Speaker 2: reality where, you know, an entire
culture is, uh, just takes that

709
00:48:08,772 --> 00:48:14,532
Speaker 2: as normal, it wouldn't be. Because,
uh, I think a assumption of this show and, you

710
00:48:14,572 --> 00:48:17,892
Speaker 2: know, as we're exploring is that you
create your own reality, but, like, multiple

711
00:48:17,932 --> 00:48:22,432
Speaker 2: minds create reality together. You
know? So we're living in a shared reality that
is

712
00:48:22,512 --> 00:48:27,412
Speaker 2: co-created, uh, and we're setting the
rules for each other. Uh, we're, you know.

713
00:48:28,592 --> 00:48:34,152
Speaker 2: So when I'm trying to do something
that is, uh, uh, impossible

714
00:48:34,872 --> 00:48:40,412
Speaker 2: by the standards of all of the minds
around me, it, it really is hard even if I

715
00:48:41,592 --> 00:48:46,352
Speaker 2: make myself believe it, you know? Or
it's even hard to, like, get myself to believe

716
00:48:46,392 --> 00:48:51,028
Speaker 2: it 'cause I don't, uh- Uh, I'm
competing with all of those other thoughts, you
know,

717
00:48:51,088 --> 00:48:56,708
Speaker 2: which, you know, l- exist as both
like a script in my mind and in conversation and

718
00:48:56,768 --> 00:49:02,368
Speaker 2: in media that's all around us. Uh,
but also psychically, you know? We're all

719
00:49:02,428 --> 00:49:07,028
Speaker 2: interpenetrating in that way, I
believe. So the-- Yeah, I think that's why it's
also

720
00:49:07,068 --> 00:49:10,988
Speaker 2: so important for conversations like
this to happen, for more and more communities to

721
00:49:11,048 --> 00:49:15,588
Speaker 2: form, where people are meeting each
other and validating each other's experiences.

722
00:49:16,208 --> 00:49:20,128
Speaker 2: Um, everybody's got a, the weird in
them. [chuckles]

723
00:49:20,168 --> 00:49:21,168
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

724
00:49:21,268 --> 00:49:24,968
Speaker 2: I, I believe everybody has had these
kinds of experiences, uh, some form of

725
00:49:25,008 --> 00:49:30,328
Speaker 2: anomalous experience, whether they
remember it or not. Um, and that's a part of

726
00:49:30,368 --> 00:49:36,248
Speaker 2: ourselves that has gone, uh,
repressed, uh, traumatized, buried deep

727
00:49:36,308 --> 00:49:42,148
Speaker 2: down. Uh, you know, we're living at,
in a world that has inherited a vast,

728
00:49:42,628 --> 00:49:42,828
Speaker 2: uh,

729
00:49:44,628 --> 00:49:49,508
Speaker 2: trove of like, yeah, just
generational trauma, cultural trauma, all of
these traumas

730
00:49:49,568 --> 00:49:52,648
Speaker 2: that have like, a lot of them have y-
uh,

731
00:49:54,228 --> 00:50:00,148
Speaker 2: bent around or associated around
repressing these things. Um, yeah,

732
00:50:00,308 --> 00:50:05,968
Speaker 2: think of like the witch trials or the
Crusades, uh, genocide against Indigenous

733
00:50:06,008 --> 00:50:11,108
Speaker 2: people. All of these things
represent, you know, war, a war against
consciousness.

734
00:50:11,708 --> 00:50:16,728
Speaker 2: Um, and so when you say that we're
living in a kind of like 1984 Orwellian reality,

735
00:50:17,728 --> 00:50:20,628
Speaker 2: doesn't seem that way when you walk
out on the street. But if you [chuckles] really

736
00:50:20,668 --> 00:50:25,888
Speaker 2: begin to like look at our structures
and, um, thought control systems and

737
00:50:25,948 --> 00:50:31,008
Speaker 2: everything, it-- and the ways that we
limit ourselves, it, it really, like that

738
00:50:31,048 --> 00:50:32,128
Speaker 2: really resonates with me.

739
00:50:33,928 --> 00:50:34,308
Speaker 1: It's tragic.

740
00:50:34,348 --> 00:50:35,488
Speaker 2: Uh, yeah.

741
00:50:37,088 --> 00:50:39,468
Speaker 2: This also brings me to another
question. Uh,

742
00:50:41,268 --> 00:50:41,488
Speaker 2: so

743
00:50:44,888 --> 00:50:49,668
Speaker 2: we are these, uh, multidimensional
selves. There's a self that exists on a higher

744
00:50:49,708 --> 00:50:54,968
Speaker 2: reality, a higher self that, uh, you
know, knows all of this stuff and is inhabiting

745
00:50:55,028 --> 00:51:00,808
Speaker 2: this, [chuckles] uh, really wise
state, I guess, or enlightened state

746
00:51:00,848 --> 00:51:05,668
Speaker 2: perhaps. Uh, but there was a choice
somehow that was made f- to

747
00:51:06,488 --> 00:51:12,208
Speaker 2: descend into the more contained, uh,
limited reality that we are now

748
00:51:12,808 --> 00:51:13,428
Speaker 2: inhabiting.

749
00:51:14,968 --> 00:51:20,848
Speaker 2: And when we die, we go back to that
because the soul, you know, that's what a soul

750
00:51:20,968 --> 00:51:25,928
Speaker 2: is. Then why try to ascend at all
within the,

751
00:51:27,108 --> 00:51:31,128
Speaker 2: within this, within the construct?
Does that, does that make sense?

752
00:51:31,128 --> 00:51:33,768
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

753
00:51:33,908 --> 00:51:38,488
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, so we're getting on the
periphery. This isn't-- What I'll respond with
is

754
00:51:38,548 --> 00:51:43,528
Speaker 1: my firsthand experience rather than I
was shown or taught about this directly.

755
00:51:44,428 --> 00:51:49,888
Speaker 1: Um, so meaning I'm still learning
here. I'm refining [chuckles] the models on this

756
00:51:49,948 --> 00:51:54,368
Speaker 1: one. This is not, "Hey, this is
true," in an experience that I totally believed
and

757
00:51:54,508 --> 00:51:59,028
Speaker 1: later replicated. But this is what
I'm inferring, you know, by bumping into the

758
00:51:59,068 --> 00:51:59,428
Speaker 1: walls-

759
00:52:00,048 --> 00:52:00,408
Speaker 2: Hmm

760
00:52:00,408 --> 00:52:05,988
Speaker 1: ... um, doing stuff. My opinion is
there's two reasons. You're either

761
00:52:06,068 --> 00:52:10,848
Speaker 1: somebody who could already do these
things anywhere you were. You, you say, I

762
00:52:10,888 --> 00:52:14,828
Speaker 1: believe that, you know, everyone has
these multidimensional selves, higher selves.

763
00:52:15,388 --> 00:52:19,088
Speaker 1: But for many people, you've maybe
never accessed them for the first time. Like
your,

764
00:52:19,668 --> 00:52:22,988
Speaker 1: your soul is literally like in
progression. Like you've never-- You've done it

765
00:52:23,068 --> 00:52:26,508
Speaker 1: sporadically, or it's mostly
subconscious, or it's intuitive, right? It's not

766
00:52:26,588 --> 00:52:31,628
Speaker 1: totally awake. Uh, it's there, but
it, you can't embody it the way you would want

767
00:52:31,688 --> 00:52:37,088
Speaker 1: to. You can't access what it's
capable of, right? You can't fly. You can't
change

768
00:52:37,108 --> 00:52:39,968
Speaker 1: your whole around, reality around you
'cause you don't have access to these higher

769
00:52:40,028 --> 00:52:45,288
Speaker 1: selves that have the capacity to do
that. This is my un- developing understanding,

770
00:52:45,788 --> 00:52:49,628
Speaker 1: and that some people, you know, their
individual soul, obviously we're all the same

771
00:52:49,668 --> 00:52:53,388
Speaker 1: person, but on this level that we're
talking about, you've never done that before.

772
00:52:53,848 --> 00:52:55,948
Speaker 1: You're trying to wake it up for the
first time.

773
00:52:56,588 --> 00:52:56,608
Speaker 2: Hmm.

774
00:52:56,608 --> 00:53:02,288
Speaker 1: But some people have, and so they've
chosen to come here, and I think even in the

775
00:53:02,328 --> 00:53:08,168
Speaker 1: air quotes afterlife, non-physical
world, I think that you are still in a, maybe in

776
00:53:08,228 --> 00:53:12,248
Speaker 1: a canonical sort of heaven, or you're
in a place that you can understand. That

777
00:53:12,288 --> 00:53:12,768
Speaker 1: doesn't mean-

778
00:53:12,788 --> 00:53:12,808
Speaker 2: Hmm

779
00:53:12,808 --> 00:53:16,028
Speaker 1: ... that you're th- thrown to the
winds. You can go anywhere you want

780
00:53:16,088 --> 00:53:19,888
Speaker 1: interdimensionally, and you can,
[chuckles] you can go be part of a hive mind
now.

781
00:53:19,948 --> 00:53:23,928
Speaker 1: You can go do all sorts of crazy,
visit DMT places. I think that-

782
00:53:24,688 --> 00:53:25,088
Speaker 2: [chuckles]

783
00:53:25,108 --> 00:53:29,968
Speaker 1: ... maybe some people can, but I
think that it might look more familiar and happy

784
00:53:30,028 --> 00:53:34,188
Speaker 1: and-- Because I think that's what
your individual consciousness is ready for.
You're

785
00:53:34,208 --> 00:53:39,248
Speaker 1: not ready to handle being your own
reality entirely and controlling everything at a

786
00:53:39,288 --> 00:53:44,368
Speaker 1: low level. It's a lot of
responsibility to take that on, and some people
just wanna

787
00:53:44,428 --> 00:53:47,568
Speaker 1: chill with their friends and family
and know they're not dead. That is my

788
00:53:47,628 --> 00:53:51,588
Speaker 1: understanding, is that there's
something for everybody, and that you don't

789
00:53:51,648 --> 00:53:56,248
Speaker 1: s-necessarily stop developing, you
know, just 'cause you physically died. But

790
00:53:57,048 --> 00:54:00,088
Speaker 1: there's like a level of development
that only really happens when you're under

791
00:54:00,148 --> 00:54:04,288
Speaker 1: pressure and you're forced into this.
So that's one reason, and the other is if you

792
00:54:04,328 --> 00:54:08,588
Speaker 1: can already do those things, you have
no reason to really be here other than

793
00:54:08,648 --> 00:54:12,388
Speaker 1: personal adventure or whatever, and I
think it's to help people, is literally-

794
00:54:12,828 --> 00:54:12,868
Speaker 2: Hmm

795
00:54:12,868 --> 00:54:17,868
Speaker 1: ... their very presence is to help
people get out of this, collectively, humanity,

796
00:54:17,948 --> 00:54:22,388
Speaker 1: to help their current situation while
they're here. You have to work while you're

797
00:54:22,448 --> 00:54:26,648
Speaker 1: here, uh, within the system, right?
You come in to work within the system, but you

798
00:54:26,688 --> 00:54:32,088
Speaker 1: forget like everybody else does.
That's-- Those are two reasons, is that it, it
sort

799
00:54:32,128 --> 00:54:35,308
Speaker 1: of levels people up. You get to keep
your progress. You don't get to keep your

800
00:54:35,388 --> 00:54:38,628
Speaker 1: stuff, but you get to keep your
memories, your personal development, your life

801
00:54:38,668 --> 00:54:44,448
Speaker 1: lessons, your capacities of awareness
and conscious control over your reality. You

802
00:54:44,468 --> 00:54:48,908
Speaker 1: get to keep all that when you die,
and so that carries like a progression system-

803
00:54:49,528 --> 00:54:49,608
Speaker 2: Hmm

804
00:54:49,608 --> 00:54:54,168
Speaker 1: ... uh, through all of your lives or
wherever you go. And so once you've reached

805
00:54:54,208 --> 00:54:59,708
Speaker 1: these capacities, for the most part-
Uh, you get to keep them. And so you can move

806
00:54:59,808 --> 00:55:05,508
Speaker 1: on or do whatever you want or keep
being a human being. So you get a choice. Uh,
but

807
00:55:05,568 --> 00:55:11,168
Speaker 1: until you reach that point, you're
kind of on a guided path here just because the

808
00:55:11,228 --> 00:55:15,548
Speaker 1: universe is pretty loving. Doesn't
just throw you, throw you to the wolves. Uh,

809
00:55:15,988 --> 00:55:21,608
Speaker 1: you're kept in a somewhat zoo-like
environment until you can graduate out of it on

810
00:55:21,648 --> 00:55:26,988
Speaker 1: your own. That's my understanding.
Just interacting with people, non-physical, my

811
00:55:27,048 --> 00:55:33,008
Speaker 1: personal experiences, that's what it
seems to be like, is that you're growing up,

812
00:55:33,608 --> 00:55:37,548
Speaker 1: right? It's the-- That's what it's
like, and everyone grows up at their same rate

813
00:55:37,608 --> 00:55:41,008
Speaker 1: or, you know, they're 40 and they
still, [chuckles] they still haven't bothered to

814
00:55:41,028 --> 00:55:44,348
Speaker 1: get a job or a driver's license.
You're like, "What the hell are you doing?"
There's

815
00:55:44,388 --> 00:55:48,828
Speaker 1: plenty of those people too. So I
think those are all the reasons. So either you

816
00:55:48,868 --> 00:55:52,468
Speaker 1: already know how to do everything and
you showed up to help people or because it's

817
00:55:52,508 --> 00:55:57,208
Speaker 1: fun, or you don't yet and you're
learning how, or maybe you never will. It's up
to

818
00:55:57,288 --> 00:56:01,708
Speaker 1: you. Uh, so I think that's the most
succinct answer I can give based on my

819
00:56:01,748 --> 00:56:02,348
Speaker 1: experience.

820
00:56:04,828 --> 00:56:10,048
Speaker 2: I dig it. Um, cool. Yeah. This has
been a really fascinating conversation, and I'm

821
00:56:10,068 --> 00:56:15,108
Speaker 2: glad we got this time to unpack the
experience and just connect and share more and,

822
00:56:15,188 --> 00:56:20,468
Speaker 2: uh, see where the-- [chuckles] what
wanted to emerge and what conversation threads

823
00:56:20,528 --> 00:56:26,288
Speaker 2: wanted to be pulled. So I'm looking
forward to hearing, uh, in our next episode, you

824
00:56:26,348 --> 00:56:31,348
Speaker 2: know, the, how your experience
unfolded, and I guess we're gonna get Reality
102

825
00:56:31,408 --> 00:56:32,228
Speaker 2: next. So-

826
00:56:32,688 --> 00:56:32,988
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

827
00:56:32,988 --> 00:56:32,989
Speaker 2: ...

828
00:56:35,108 --> 00:56:39,588
Speaker 2: um, yeah. Anything, anything you'd
like to share by way of closing or signing off?

829
00:56:41,268 --> 00:56:46,948
Speaker 1: Um, I'll be excited to share that
because that will be-- How is this a multiplayer

830
00:56:47,068 --> 00:56:51,988
Speaker 1: reality if you're everything? How do
other people get to exist within it? If you're

831
00:56:52,048 --> 00:56:54,868
Speaker 1: always touching yourself, if you're
everything around you, like literally,

832
00:56:54,948 --> 00:56:59,648
Speaker 1: physically, you are everything, uh,
how is that possible that other people ever

833
00:56:59,708 --> 00:57:02,968
Speaker 1: interact with you? Like, what lets
them in? What lets them change stuff or not

834
00:57:03,008 --> 00:57:07,928
Speaker 1: change stuff? And that's what the
entire thing is about, is how that is possible.

835
00:57:08,428 --> 00:57:12,368
Speaker 1: Uh, it's gonna bring up so many
quest- I still have so many questions. Uh, but
I,

836
00:57:12,428 --> 00:57:17,268
Speaker 1: I'm excited to, to share that because
I want people to know. I want

837
00:57:18,348 --> 00:57:23,068
Speaker 1: people to not just know that this is
how it really is. Just no dogma. This is aside

838
00:57:23,108 --> 00:57:26,208
Speaker 1: from any religious views or however
you wanna see it. Those things can all still be

839
00:57:26,248 --> 00:57:31,548
Speaker 1: valid. This is just the underlying
rule sets, like physics. This is how it works.

840
00:57:32,268 --> 00:57:38,228
Speaker 1: Because I want people to have the
choice to make the reality whatever

841
00:57:38,268 --> 00:57:42,288
Speaker 1: they want, and to at least have the
choice. If you don't ever wanna get a driver's

842
00:57:42,348 --> 00:57:47,208
Speaker 1: license or a job, [chuckles] like,
fine. Whatever. If you don't want to fly or to

843
00:57:47,248 --> 00:57:51,228
Speaker 1: have control or to have the
responsibility of what it means to have this
level of

844
00:57:51,268 --> 00:57:55,488
Speaker 1: awareness and control, you don't want
all that. That's cool. But you should at least

845
00:57:55,528 --> 00:58:00,388
Speaker 1: know you have the choice, um, because
I intend to take it. I suspect that you do,

846
00:58:00,468 --> 00:58:05,768
Speaker 1: too, and many others besides. Um, so
that's what I'm excited about, and if this

847
00:58:05,808 --> 00:58:08,768
Speaker 1: helps in any way, then it will have
been time well spent.

848
00:58:11,488 --> 00:58:15,408
Speaker 2: Yeah, man. I'm excited for that. It
seemed like this conversation also, uh, was a,

849
00:58:15,468 --> 00:58:20,908
Speaker 2: is a good preamble to that
exploration. We touched on some of those topics
in a good

850
00:58:20,968 --> 00:58:21,588
Speaker 2: setup. So-

851
00:58:22,068 --> 00:58:22,288
Speaker 1: Yeah

852
00:58:22,388 --> 00:58:25,288
Speaker 2: ... um, yeah, man. I'm looking
forward to it.

853
00:58:26,428 --> 00:58:26,688
Speaker 1: Cool.

854
00:58:27,488 --> 00:58:28,988
Speaker 2: Cool. See you then.

855
00:58:29,628 --> 00:58:30,768
Speaker 1: All right. We'll call it a wrap.

856
00:58:31,568 --> 00:58:31,728
Speaker 2: Yep.

857
00:58:34,188 --> 00:58:36,708
Speaker 2: This is Reality 101. Until next time.

858
00:58:38,188 --> 00:58:42,388
Speaker 1: Nothing is impossible, you're not
going to die, and everything loves you.

859
00:58:42,528 --> 00:58:52,988
Speaker 1: [outro music]