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Source: reality/006-4-see-wake-up-remember-pt-3.mp3
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00:00:00.000 Speaker 1 [gentle music]
00:00:10.020 Speaker 1 Reality 101 is a journal of impossible experiences, from first-hand explorations
00:00:14.540 Speaker 1 into the nature of reality, what it means for all of us, and how you can experience
00:00:18.880 Speaker 1 it for yourself. I'm Stephen Trumbek.
00:00:22.200 Speaker 2 And I'm Joshua Swenson. This episode of Reality 101 is part three of See, Wake Up,
00:00:28.220 Speaker 2 Remember. We're finishing our conversation on the topic of direct non-dual
00:00:32.580 Speaker 2 realization, what it implies about how reality works, and why this matters at all
00:00:37.320 Speaker 2 beyond a neat experience. Uh, but before we dive in on that topic, we like to check
00:00:43.020 Speaker 2 in, so I'm wondering how you're arriving today, Stephen.
00:00:47.760 Speaker 1 I'm arriving pretty good. I'm, I'm always excited to, to chat, uh,
00:00:53.820 Speaker 1 and to share, you know, what I've learned, what, what we've learned. Um, I'm coming
00:00:58.920 Speaker 1 off a weird experience, uh, yesterday, where I,
00:01:02.980 Speaker 1 uh, talked to my past self [chuckles] in a liminal state, like right before I
00:01:09.000 Speaker 1 chose to come here. Uh, like right before making the decision to
00:01:15.220 Speaker 1 live a hu- live a human life here, which is-
00:01:17.380 Speaker 2 Mm
00:01:18.020 Speaker 1 ... profound and weird and pretty emotional. Uh, pretty strange. Uh, if
00:01:24.280 Speaker 1 you guys are new to those ideas, that's what you can do. Time isn't a thing. You can
00:01:28.560 Speaker 1 talk to your past self or future self. Um, but yeah, uh, maybe we'll get into that
00:01:33.220 Speaker 1 another time, but that's how I'm arriving. It's like, dang, uh, the weight of
00:01:38.140 Speaker 1 meaning [chuckles] feels. I got, I got big feels, but I'm happy.
00:01:43.040 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:01:43.740 Speaker 1 Um, so how are you?
00:01:46.200 Speaker 2 Oh, that's cool. Um, thanks for sharing that. Um, yeah, I'm
00:01:51.840 Speaker 2 feeling a little
00:01:56.000 Speaker 2 lower energy, lower mood. Um,
00:02:00.380 Speaker 2 and uh, yeah, just in a little bit of a transitional phase. Hap- often happens in
00:02:05.000 Speaker 2 the summer. Feel like I go through a period of unraveling and inner exploration and
00:02:11.640 Speaker 2 holding open for what wants to emerge through me. And uh, just this morning,
00:02:17.660 Speaker 2 there was this interesting [chuckles] ... I, I feel like synchronicities often, uh,
00:02:23.040 Speaker 2 around birds happen to me. I had one a couple months ago about hummingbirds, and
00:02:28.780 Speaker 2 this time, uh, it's always crazy getting my kids ready to go out the door and, uh,
00:02:34.540 Speaker 2 something shifted. I was able to connect with my daughter and, uh, just
00:02:40.620 Speaker 2 transmute her grumpy energy into excited energy. And they open the door and, um,
00:02:46.840 Speaker 2 this hawk takes off. It was right, sitting right on our, uh, we live in a fifth
00:02:52.100 Speaker 2 floor apartment, and it was on the floor kind of like 10, 15 feet away from our
00:02:57.660 Speaker 2 door, and it was feasting on a pigeon. [chuckles] So it's just like we just get a
00:03:02.720 Speaker 2 glimpse of it flying off, holding the pigeon and, uh, and uh, yeah, then there's
00:03:08.740 Speaker 2 like blood and feathers everywhere and, uh, some of the feed that was in the
00:03:13.340 Speaker 2 pigeon's stomach. Um, so that was just a, that's just, I don't know. I just, I don't
00:03:18.580 Speaker 2 know what to make of that, but it was, those kind of things happen and they just,
00:03:23.280 Speaker 2 I'm just like, uh,
00:03:25.920 Speaker 2 I, I choose to s- to experience this mundane reality more like a dream, you know,
00:03:31.260 Speaker 2 laden with symbolism and meaning. And so, uh, I think I'll have to sit with that for
00:03:36.220 Speaker 2 a little bit. But yeah, that's how I'm arriving today, a little bit in a, a quandary
00:03:41.860 Speaker 2 and, uh, yeah, excited for this conversation and to, uh,
00:03:47.920 Speaker 2 see how it unfolds. I, I listened back on the, our last recording. It's been a
00:03:52.680 Speaker 2 little while, and that, well, that conversation went really deep, and there was a
00:03:56.740 Speaker 2 lot of really profound, uh, things that came through there.
00:04:02.760 Speaker 2 So yeah, I'm curious if you have a, if you have anywhere you'd like to, to pick
00:04:08.740 Speaker 2 up, 'cause I know we wanna just like give some space today for discussing the
00:04:12.820 Speaker 2 implications of that last, uh, experience.
00:04:17.300 Speaker 2 Maybe a recap, you know?
00:04:18.680 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:04:18.720 Speaker 2 Maybe just a short recap if you'd like to give it.
00:04:21.279 Speaker 1 Yeah, the short recap. This is the part three that was supposed to be a one part
00:04:24.820 Speaker 1 episode. [chuckles]
00:04:27.200 Speaker 2 Yeah. [chuckles]
00:04:27.360 Speaker 1 But it was meant to be like one arc, you know, just pulling one thread of some of
00:04:31.340 Speaker 1 the experiences that I've had, uh, which, you know, getting the repeated
00:04:35.660 Speaker 1 instructions to see, wake up, and remember, and really leaning into that in
00:04:39.640 Speaker 1 meditation, throughout waking life, like just feeding this belief like a bonfire.
00:04:44.520 Speaker 1 And all the places it led to various perspectives that were weird, right? They were,
00:04:49.720 Speaker 1 they're all valid, but they're all, they were much different than our regular waking
00:04:54.240 Speaker 1 life, for me anyway. Um, you know, I've- don't have extensive psychedelic
00:04:57.800 Speaker 1 experience, so for me, uh, you know, the depths of meditation was as non-dual as it
00:05:03.760 Speaker 1 got. But these were, I was like, I was giving a, getting a tour of like various
00:05:08.700 Speaker 1 perspectives that were all still me. And of course, this applies to, to anyone, any
00:05:13.020 Speaker 1 individual soul, um, that you all have these valid perspectives as well. And
00:05:19.080 Speaker 1 it ended, ended, air quotes, as if we're ever done, uh, with
00:05:24.640 Speaker 1 really a bizarre f- I think you mentioned like fireworks experience in pre-planning
00:05:29.480 Speaker 1 this episode, where just a whole bunch of stuff, just symbols and all sorts of 3D
00:05:33.620 Speaker 1 imagery. It looked like music visualization. It was truly wild 'cause I was sober
00:05:37.380 Speaker 1 and kind of in a bad mood, just watching it all play out in the visual field. And it
00:05:42.020 Speaker 1 was, it was wild, and I think right after that happened, I got the verbal thought,
00:05:47.500 Speaker 1 uh, "Stephen, I hope you believe in miracles because you just got one." I'm like,
00:05:51.880 Speaker 1 "Pssh, I don't know what you're talking about, but okay. I mean, it looks cool, but
00:05:55.740 Speaker 1 I don't know what it means." And then of course, right after that, I had the
00:05:58.600 Speaker 1 experience where I feel like I got inverted. Like, I am- Like a
00:06:04.580 Speaker 1 hole in the center of the world shaped like a person. All the thoughts and emotions
00:06:08.880 Speaker 1 and everything, it's all like it's been flattened. It's all of equal importance now.
00:06:13.220 Speaker 1 Just as im- I- it's just as much me as the tree is. And I had a sense of self that
00:06:17.280 Speaker 1 was my entire field of experience, and it was so sudden. And like [laughs] I was
00:06:23.560 Speaker 1 just kind of grumpy and yeah. Nothing special had happened right before that, but it
00:06:28.480 Speaker 1 was instantaneous, and I had the realization that this is how it really is. And then
00:06:33.060 Speaker 1 there's a sort of collective like sigh, like, "Okay, he gets it." And it felt like
00:06:37.980 Speaker 1 that was a very special moment, and maybe that's something we'll get into today. I
00:06:41.200 Speaker 1 don't know if you've ever felt this, but it was like this was a threshold moment in
00:06:45.760 Speaker 1 a conscious creature's development. Okay, cool.
00:06:49.180 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:06:49.400 Speaker 1 Like you're literally in like a different echelon now. You're like in a different
00:06:52.140 Speaker 1 category. The things we can do and say and interact with you, you're like, you know,
00:06:57.680 Speaker 1 you're like bronze tier now or whatever. [laughs] You c- we can like, if you can
00:07:02.280 Speaker 1 imagine like a Star Trek Prime Directive sort of thing, there's actually maybe like
00:07:06.040 Speaker 1 categories. I don't know if this is universal. I doubt it. But in general, I think
00:07:11.180 Speaker 1 it, it's at least philosophical, but probably has more hard rule implications. I
00:07:16.760 Speaker 1 don't know. I'm inferring all that. But this is what it felt like, is intuitively I
00:07:21.620 Speaker 1 just knew that like, well, things are different now. Like the kinds of things I can
00:07:25.600 Speaker 1 do and experience and interact with people and d- they're allowed to do different
00:07:29.080 Speaker 1 things now. Uh, you're no longer in like a protected status. Like you're not in like
00:07:33.020 Speaker 1 a nature sanctuary anymore because you know this. Once you've had this realization,
00:07:37.120 Speaker 1 things change. And the reason why, specifically, again, all intuitive, was
00:07:43.180 Speaker 1 that because nobody can stop me now. It's like you-- if you can get in a rocket ship
00:07:49.180 Speaker 1 and go to Venus or whatever, you know, the people who are hanging out in a satellite
00:07:53.080 Speaker 1 around Venus, I'm not saying any of this is true, this is just [laughs] just a
00:07:56.860 Speaker 1 complete fabricated example. They can't stop you from visiting now. So nobody's
00:08:01.800 Speaker 1 gonna try to contain you anymore because they can't. They literally can't. And so
00:08:05.660 Speaker 1 once you've had realizations of certain kinds, you can leave, like you can get out
00:08:10.960 Speaker 1 of the, the zoo. [laughs] So there, there's no point in trying to keep you in it
00:08:15.100 Speaker 1 anymore. Uh, and so you're now in a different... You can do different things. It has
00:08:20.620 Speaker 1 real utility. Um, so that's the summary plus like some of the broader implications
00:08:26.180 Speaker 1 beyond just the personal. Like it, it matters, uh, in ways that I'm still trying to
00:08:32.040 Speaker 1 figure out.
00:08:35.000 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:08:38.380 Speaker 2 Um, yeah.
00:08:41.700 Speaker 2 I- it was really interesting to hear that experience. Like I think we spoke
00:08:47.620 Speaker 2 shortly after you had the initial experience. You shared it with me, and then to
00:08:52.800 Speaker 2 hear it again on the podcast and to listen and to absorb more and more of that. Um,
00:08:59.680 Speaker 2 and, uh, yeah, I don't... I, I feel like, uh, my
00:09:05.680 Speaker 2 meditation practice, uh, is pointing me in a different
00:09:11.240 Speaker 2 direction, um, where much of my f- focus has been on
00:09:17.260 Speaker 2 connecting very deeply with my body and, uh, getting in touch with the energy that
00:09:22.880 Speaker 2 is flowing in through me and is held in different spaces. I've been doing recently a
00:09:28.780 Speaker 2 lot of like meditation around my sacral chakra and releasing blockages
00:09:34.660 Speaker 2 there, and then my, you know, my chest, my heart center, and opening more and more.
00:09:40.280 Speaker 2 As you were speaking, actually, I felt that opening up more, which is I, I always
00:09:43.900 Speaker 2 take as a sign of synchronicity and connection and, uh, the path that I'm meant to
00:09:48.380 Speaker 2 be on. And, um, yeah, but, uh, so when I hear
00:09:54.240 Speaker 2 about these like y- your capacity to, um, just through
00:09:59.760 Speaker 2 meditation, you know, go to like these really, into these really deep, uh,
00:10:05.480 Speaker 2 altered state experiences, there's a part of me that's a little jealous and a part
00:10:09.580 Speaker 2 of me that's like, "How do I get there?" [laughs] You know? And, uh, I feel like you
00:10:15.500 Speaker 2 have some kind of a,
00:10:18.560 Speaker 2 a unique capacity, or I think we each have unique capacities, unique skill sets too,
00:10:24.159 Speaker 2 um,
00:10:26.440 Speaker 2 yeah, that, that are the f- are foundations for exploration and, um, maybe there's a
00:10:32.420 Speaker 2 convergence. Um,
00:10:35.340 Speaker 2 yeah, I actually listened to a podcast recently which was recounting this
00:10:41.200 Speaker 2 book called, um, The Secret of the Golden Flower, and it's a, a
00:10:47.280 Speaker 2 Taoist book. Um,
00:10:51.180 Speaker 2 there was a contemporary of Carl Jung's who traveled to China and
00:10:56.940 Speaker 2 was intending to convert the people there, but then ended up being converted
00:11:02.800 Speaker 2 into, you know, their practices, and this is a, a teaching that has been pa- passed
00:11:08.080 Speaker 2 down for millennia, and he was able to receive the teachings and re- record it. And,
00:11:13.780 Speaker 2 uh, what's described in the book just reminded me a lot of some of the things that
00:11:18.000 Speaker 2 you've been describing. Um, they talk about like, you know, different practices that
00:11:23.120 Speaker 2 inev- eventually lead to, you know, opening up this like inner visual
00:11:29.060 Speaker 2 mandala-like flower. You know, like that, that's kind of like a signifier of like a
00:11:33.660 Speaker 2 level of a- of attainment along this path.
00:11:38.420 Speaker 2 Uh, yeah, I have more to share, but that's where my mind or- initially goes to. I'm
00:11:42.700 Speaker 2 curious how that lands with you.
00:11:45.220 Speaker 1 I love you so much, man. I love you-
00:11:47.400 Speaker 2 [laughs] I love you too
00:11:48.080 Speaker 1 ... enough to say that you were feeling jealousy. You know how rare that is? Uh,
00:11:52.700 Speaker 1 this is just-
00:11:53.480 Speaker 2 [laughs]
00:11:54.580 Speaker 1 I can't take it aside, so we're gonna just leave this in the episode.
00:11:57.560 Speaker 2 I, I, yeah, I feel my feelings.
00:11:59.080 Speaker 1 I appreciate it.
00:11:59.320 Speaker 2 I, I gotta be honest. [laughs]
00:12:00.920 Speaker 1 'Cause you're not g- you're the only one. I have. I feel it all the time. I feel all
00:12:05.028 Speaker 1 the time, uh, when I see people doing things, and you're right, we do each have
00:12:08.788 Speaker 1 unique gifts. There's aptitude. I see it when I'm doing the psi practices with other
00:12:12.568 Speaker 1 people. There are so many that I, no matter how hard I try, like I can get maybe at
00:12:17.508 Speaker 1 most a tiny amount after a lot more effort than they put in or nothing, and it's
00:12:22.528 Speaker 1 very frustrating. Um, so aptitude is definitely a thing. So I think that, and
00:12:28.448 Speaker 1 yes, you could very well be on a different path of development. Who knows how many
00:12:31.868 Speaker 1 there are? The-- what you're talking about is working at like a different layer, and
00:12:36.148 Speaker 1 all of these are valid. Like they're different perspectives. Yes, we have a
00:12:39.108 Speaker 1 connection through our body to the Earth, and there are other forms of spiritual
00:12:42.548 Speaker 1 connection or energetic connection, different layers, and it's complicated. They all
00:12:48.008 Speaker 1 mix together. I think the reason I was shown this perspective is because it leads
00:12:53.348 Speaker 1 directly into whatever-- what comes next, which is the Reality 102 experience that
00:12:57.828 Speaker 1 happens the very next day. We won't get into that today.
00:13:01.268 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:13:01.288 Speaker 1 But it was-- I needed to know that I was my entire reality. I needed to like
00:13:05.768 Speaker 1 complete that narrative arc that I was shown in the, the end of Reality 101. "Hey,
00:13:10.488 Speaker 1 you are everything. Remember when you literally felt that you were the things around
00:13:14.348 Speaker 1 you and not just yourself?" Uh, not in like a... Like you were literally made out of
00:13:20.328 Speaker 1 the same thing. It's like your body is just everything you're experiencing. It's
00:13:23.568 Speaker 1 what it feels like directly. And I needed to have that in a waking state experience,
00:13:28.468 Speaker 1 and I wasn't like in a trance state. It just like, bleh. But I had-- I needed to
00:13:34.188 Speaker 1 experience that to understand the lesson that came next, um, because I was being
00:13:39.528 Speaker 1 shown like low-level fundamental rules for reality so that I could share it with
00:13:44.808 Speaker 1 other people.
00:13:45.328 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:13:45.348 Speaker 1 There are many valid truths and perspectives, but I was getting this perspective, so
00:13:50.448 Speaker 1 the nuts and bolts low-level consciousness stuff-
00:13:53.728 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:13:53.808 Speaker 1 ... because it explained a lot of the other things or would help explain a lot of
00:13:58.088 Speaker 1 the other things, and it was very, uh, useful. But one thing I would say to when you
00:14:04.088 Speaker 1 mentioned you wanted it too, I don't have a perfect recipe, but for me, this comes
00:14:09.588 Speaker 1 at the tail end of five months of doggedly repeating over and over to myself in
00:14:14.648 Speaker 1 meditation throughout the day. Not just repeating, but believing, investing
00:14:18.028 Speaker 1 everything I had into, "This is really true." Trying to get the belief to the same
00:14:22.308 Speaker 1 level to belief that when you set your foot down, it doesn't fall through the
00:14:25.168 Speaker 1 ground. It's what I was trying to do with like, "See, wake up, remember," like
00:14:29.788 Speaker 1 constantly. I was feeding this thing like crazy, and then it happened, and I think
00:14:35.468 Speaker 1 that that really is the recipe. Uh, that's, that path will look different for
00:14:39.228 Speaker 1 everybody else. The effects and maybe the realization will look different for
00:14:42.128 Speaker 1 everybody else. Maybe the insight that they need-
00:14:43.948 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:14:44.108 Speaker 1 ... is different for everyone else. But I think this is a truth that anyone can get
00:14:48.108 Speaker 1 to. That is how I got there. I think it will work for anyone,
00:14:54.048 Speaker 1 uh, because that's the sort of underlying model, but let's see. [both laugh] It's
00:15:00.068 Speaker 1 a, it's a theory with a sample size of one right now.
00:15:03.088 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:15:06.048 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, I had a, um... I guess a lot of my
00:15:11.848 Speaker 2 really big spiritual experiences, uh, have come through psychedelics, and, uh, if
00:15:17.088 Speaker 2 you think about like propensities, um, I have somehow been able to
00:15:22.988 Speaker 2 hold space for myself through many like really big journeys, uh, sometimes going a
00:15:28.648 Speaker 2 little too far. Uh, whereas it's, I must-- I work occasionally as
00:15:34.628 Speaker 2 a psychedelic guide and support people in altered states of consciousness. So I
00:15:40.528 Speaker 2 highly recommend if anyone is curious about exploring to, uh, go on that route. But,
00:15:46.808 Speaker 2 um, yeah, because it's just this, what comes up through a psychedelic journey can be
00:15:53.228 Speaker 2 terrifying, elating, beautiful, intense suffering, you know, all the things,
00:15:58.788 Speaker 2 [chuckles] and ultimately very profound and transformative. And, uh, and
00:16:05.588 Speaker 2 when you were speaking earlier about like thresholds, um, I thought that I was
00:16:10.848 Speaker 2 thinking about my own experience, and, you know, I've probably gone on like over 100
00:16:16.728 Speaker 2 journeys at this point, um, with different medicines, uh, maybe 200. [chuckles]
00:16:22.568 Speaker 2 And, uh, yeah, there's definitely moments where I felt like something unlocked
00:16:26.908 Speaker 2 inside of me, and I could, uh, then descend further or like, you know, go
00:16:32.948 Speaker 2 higher or something. I, I f- I think of it more as like a descending into the depth
00:16:36.748 Speaker 2 of myself. Um, and so recently, I had been thinking about
00:16:42.548 Speaker 2 exploring a higher dose LSD, uh, session,
00:16:48.888 Speaker 2 and I didn't really know what a high dose is. [chuckles] So I actually, actually, I
00:16:53.208 Speaker 2 didn't really want... And when I was intending to go on this journey since our last
00:16:56.928 Speaker 2 conversation, I was like, um, "Maybe I'll just keep it like kind of mild. I'll take
00:17:02.708 Speaker 2 200 micrograms," and, uh, that's two tabs. Uh, I'd
00:17:08.488 Speaker 2 done 100 before, but I'd used cannabis to help me navigate. Uh, and this time I was
00:17:13.868 Speaker 2 like, "Well, let's just see what happens." And it started out very mild, and, uh, I
00:17:19.148 Speaker 2 was like, "Okay, this is interesting." Some tingling, some sensations in my abdomen,
00:17:24.208 Speaker 2 and feeling a little nauseous, and, um,
00:17:29.348 Speaker 2 yeah. And then at some point, uh,
00:17:33.868 Speaker 2 yeah, the things shifted, [chuckles] and, and then I was sucked into this w-
00:17:39.128 Speaker 2 incredibly profound altered state. Um, yeah, hard
00:17:45.188 Speaker 2 to even like begin to describe what that was like. Um, I feel it's like,
00:17:51.168 Speaker 2 uh, taking off my skin and realizing that I am,
00:17:57.248 Speaker 2 yeah, everything. Like you said, I am my whole reality, or, you know, underneath
00:18:02.348 Speaker 2 this impression of a self, uh, or like a body or a mind, a
00:18:08.148 Speaker 2 psyche is cosmic consciousness. It's just like wearing this- ... clo- these
00:18:14.196 Speaker 2 clothes or this mask, uh, to perform the play of, uh,
00:18:20.276 Speaker 2 of, uh, life and existence, um, and explore itself in different perspectives. And it
00:18:25.596 Speaker 2 was just so obvious in that space. Um, somatically, uh, it felt
00:18:31.616 Speaker 2 like being in a nuclear fusion reaction [laughs] where, uh, past and
00:18:37.536 Speaker 2 present and all of the universe is just kind of, like, together in one
00:18:45.216 Speaker 2 churning, massive energy orb. [laughs] And, uh,
00:18:51.236 Speaker 2 from that space, it was so-- There's just so much clarity and immediate,
00:18:57.256 Speaker 2 um,
00:18:59.056 Speaker 2 like, yeah, or anything could be immediately possible. You're just like, "Oh yeah,
00:19:02.796 Speaker 2 of course this can happen. This is the path to take." Um,
00:19:07.816 Speaker 2 somehow I, I always feel like at some point I try to send you psychic messages,
00:19:11.256 Speaker 2 [laughs] so I'm sorry if that happened at that-
00:19:13.496 Speaker 1 What?
00:19:13.876 Speaker 2 ... at that time. [laughs]
00:19:14.856 Speaker 1 What did you tell me? Right after we-
00:19:16.296 Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't re- I don't remember at all.
00:19:18.295 Speaker 1 Then how would I know it's from you?
00:19:19.536 Speaker 2 But it was like I am exploring, like, s- psychically. Like, it was-- It felt like
00:19:23.236 Speaker 2 there was just, like, these energy channels, and you think of a person, and you
00:19:26.136 Speaker 2 think of the energy of that person, and then it's kind of like a pathway opens up to
00:19:30.036 Speaker 2 them.
00:19:31.056 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:19:31.196 Speaker 2 And so I, I'm sure that I connected with you and probably other people and it was,
00:19:34.856 Speaker 2 you know. [laughs] And coming down, I'm like, "I should probably close this off and
00:19:38.376 Speaker 2 be a little bit more cautious when I explore in that space." Uh, and then the other
00:19:43.236 Speaker 2 thing that comes to mind from that journey, um, which, you know, this description
00:19:49.256 Speaker 2 doesn't do justice to just the, the magic and power of an experience like that, as
00:19:54.636 Speaker 2 you know from your, [laughs] you know, your altered state experiences. Um, yeah, uh,
00:20:01.276 Speaker 2 there was this-- I, I think I remember you saying in the last episode that, you
00:20:04.656 Speaker 2 know, you look around and it's like [clears throat] this branch is like your skin,
00:20:10.636 Speaker 2 or this grass you're sitting on is an extension of yourself. And so it was a very,
00:20:15.276 Speaker 2 uh, visceral experience of that. Um, everything around me just was so much more
00:20:20.976 Speaker 2 vibrant, like pulsing with aliveness and responding directly to my awareness instead
00:20:26.096 Speaker 2 of seeming like it's just sitting out there, you know, like this static little kind
00:20:31.596 Speaker 2 of a, you know, a book or a bowl or a cup or something like that. It's just like
00:20:36.316 Speaker 2 this is solid and this is like this, but instead, in that state, it's like
00:20:39.816 Speaker 2 everything is kind of like vibrating and moving, and I just have this sense that
00:20:43.436 Speaker 2 it's all me. Under the surface, it's all me, you know, and this is just the
00:20:47.356 Speaker 2 appearance that it shows, you know, from this outside perspective. Um,
00:20:53.436 Speaker 2 yeah, all just, like, all just really incredible and, uh, so I think, uh, that
00:20:58.676 Speaker 2 helped me kind of... A- and then also going to that state, I know that I've had
00:21:03.196 Speaker 2 those experiences so many times before, and every time I return to that state, uh,
00:21:08.676 Speaker 2 it's like, "Oh yeah, this is who I really am." Why do I keep forgetting? I have to
00:21:14.436 Speaker 2 keep reminding myself, you know? Um-
00:21:17.376 Speaker 1 Why do you keep forgetting? Do you have any insight on that?
00:21:19.136 Speaker 2 Why do I keep forgetting? Yeah. It's, uh... Well, I think the process of, like,
00:21:24.416 Speaker 2 using a psychedelic is, um,
00:21:28.576 Speaker 2 it's like dynamite, you know? It's a, it's a substance that really powerfully alters
00:21:34.296 Speaker 2 your, your mind and, um, puts you automatically into this altered state,
00:21:40.316 Speaker 2 and maybe y- you also have capacities to go deeper, like I said about the, um,
00:21:46.956 Speaker 2 you know, being able to go into, uh, new pla- new plateaus, right? Or deeper
00:21:52.216 Speaker 2 plateaus and go de- deeper, opening these kind of like thres- going behind these
00:21:55.996 Speaker 2 thresholds. Um, so I have, like, a capacity to go deeper, but it's also like this
00:22:01.696 Speaker 2 medicine is causing me to, uh, experience this, you know? And then it, my, uh,
00:22:08.176 Speaker 2 my body and my mind closes back up after the medicine leaves my system, and so I'm
00:22:13.556 Speaker 2 not quite at the developmentally-- Like, I'm not quite at the state where I can hold
00:22:18.356 Speaker 2 all of that always, right? Maybe, like, I get to, uh, get little
00:22:24.056 Speaker 2 glimpses and, uh, yeah, I think, uh, I think it's like a glimpse of where I could be
00:22:29.716 Speaker 2 growing toward, but it's not something that I can sustain, [laughs] you know?
00:22:34.716 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:22:35.276 Speaker 2 And you wouldn't want to sustain it because you have to function in this mundane
00:22:39.176 Speaker 2 reality. Um, it look- it's like, uh, we have a
00:22:44.556 Speaker 2 mutual, uh, mentor named Darren King. Um, his podcast is, uh, Point of
00:22:50.136 Speaker 2 Convergence, um, and we've taken some of his classes together. And he talks about
00:22:54.576 Speaker 2 these, this protocol that he does, which I don't think involves psychedelics, but it
00:22:58.336 Speaker 2 might. He hasn't really discussed it. Um, where he's able to exit the construct, he
00:23:04.016 Speaker 2 calls it, and, uh, he's gone on several of these excursions and inc- to increasingly
00:23:10.416 Speaker 2 further depths of reality, I guess, or beyond, you know, physical reality. And it's
00:23:16.236 Speaker 2 a bit like that, you know? Like one, uh, it kind of felt like that, like I had left
00:23:19.896 Speaker 2 the construct. But when you are, uh,
00:23:25.496 Speaker 2 when you're venturing that far, it's, like, hard to, hard to, like, then make the
00:23:30.296 Speaker 2 coffee or, like, I'm like, you know, try- I was trying to, like, make my lunch and
00:23:35.336 Speaker 2 it's just like, "Oh, my, my hands don't really work 'cause I'm cosmic
00:23:38.696 Speaker 2 consciousness." [laughs] And it's like I need to, like, bring it down a little bit,
00:23:42.336 Speaker 2 you know? Uh, so that, that may be, um... Yeah. I'm curious how,
00:23:48.336 Speaker 2 curious if you have any thoughts on that. I'll, I'll pause there.
00:23:51.316 Speaker 1 I think you're experiencing even deeper truths. I think that personally,
00:23:55.796 Speaker 1 psychedelics are showing us something true. Uh, I do think they stimulate our
00:24:00.156 Speaker 1 imagination and other things, so it is... Obviously, you know better about this than
00:24:03.676 Speaker 1 I would, but I do think it's cooperative and you're creating-
00:24:06.256 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm
00:24:06.276 Speaker 1 ... some of the, the experience. But that's, I think that's because that's true
00:24:09.616 Speaker 1 also. Uh, but I think you're seeing something even deeper than what I was
00:24:13.736 Speaker 1 experiencing, um, 'cause I was experiencing The same things that you experience
00:24:19.224 Speaker 1 right now in like a regular waking life. I didn't have any, you know, sixth sense or
00:24:24.024 Speaker 1 like deep intuitive things or new senses come online. It was literally just like,
00:24:29.464 Speaker 1 "Oh, I'm everything, but I can still think." That was the strangest part about my
00:24:32.884 Speaker 1 experience.
00:24:33.264 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:24:33.823 Speaker 1 I can, I can use my hands. I could talk. I could crack a joke. I could walk around.
00:24:37.964 Speaker 1 I could do my taxes. But I'm a hole in the center of my reality.
00:24:43.584 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:24:44.084 Speaker 1 And like, this is obviously not me. And I think you were experiencing something even
00:24:48.744 Speaker 1 deeper, which is probably the connection of a soul to everything else, right?
00:24:52.784 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:24:52.804 Speaker 1 There is no real distinction between these things. We draw lines at, I won't say
00:24:56.744 Speaker 1 arbitrary levels, but they are ultimately just still the same thing. I think we're
00:25:01.784 Speaker 1 on board for that philosophy at this point. I think you were experiencing a much
00:25:05.964 Speaker 1 deeper kind of connection, way beyond even the individual soul.
00:25:09.864 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:25:09.904 Speaker 1 That would be my take.
00:25:11.604 Speaker 2 Mm. Mm.
00:25:13.124 Speaker 1 You're getting way more. It was a yes, and.
00:25:16.604 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, the thing I really appreciate about your process is that it's, um,
00:25:22.063 Speaker 2 that the gradual-- Like I went through a period where I was doing a lot of
00:25:25.464 Speaker 2 psychedelics, and then realized that my body can't sustain this. That, you know, I
00:25:31.384 Speaker 2 started having these sessions where as it was just harder and harder to come down
00:25:35.244 Speaker 2 from them, my body felt like, um,
00:25:40.204 Speaker 2 frayed wires. You know, my nerves kind of like... And it was just like, like after
00:25:44.504 Speaker 2 that LSD journey, I couldn't sleep at all that night.
00:25:46.824 Speaker 1 Mm.
00:25:47.444 Speaker 2 Maybe I got to sleep at like, you know, 4:00 AM or something. Uh, but it's just
00:25:52.824 Speaker 2 like, it just opens you up so much that, uh,
00:25:58.644 Speaker 2 this current incarnation is like [chuckles] not quite ready to hold all
00:26:04.624 Speaker 2 that. But the process that you're going through is like this incremental, you're
00:26:08.164 Speaker 2 being guided by your, um, you know, your soul family, your spirit guides,
00:26:14.504 Speaker 2 and they're giving you things that you're, you know, at this current stage, ready to
00:26:19.984 Speaker 2 step into, you know? Um, so I, I don't know. It's interesting. I'm, I'm finding
00:26:24.744 Speaker 2 myself more and more, uh, like using psychedelics less, you know? It, it'd been
00:26:30.064 Speaker 2 quite a while since I'd done any kind of journey when I wanted to try this LSD
00:26:34.344 Speaker 2 journey, and as I came down from that, I was like, "You know, I think I'm good for
00:26:36.964 Speaker 2 about a year." [chuckles]
00:26:38.564 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:26:38.724 Speaker 2 Whereas I went through a period where I was doing things like that, you know, every
00:26:42.984 Speaker 2 two weeks or something like that, and I was just like, it was so... That
00:26:49.384 Speaker 2 being in that state was so enticing. You know? Like the, that state of power and
00:26:54.784 Speaker 2 clarity and, um, energy, you know, aliveness, was so enticing that I
00:27:00.744 Speaker 2 was just like drawn back to it. But at some point, I realized I couldn't sustain it
00:27:03.824 Speaker 2 anymore, so now I'm like, "Okay, the gradual path is the, is the path for me." And
00:27:09.384 Speaker 2 I, I know that this is kind of like a, a common thread amongst like psychonauts,
00:27:13.644 Speaker 2 like Ram Dass. You know, he-
00:27:15.184 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
00:27:15.444 Speaker 2 ... was a big explorer in the, what? '70s or '80s, and then, you know, turned more
00:27:20.444 Speaker 2 towards, uh, meditation. Alan Watts has said, uh, with psychedel- about
00:27:26.044 Speaker 2 psychedelics, "Once you pick up-- Once you get the call, pick up the phone. Once
00:27:30.204 Speaker 2 you, once you receive the message, pick up..." Uh, "Once you receive the message,
00:27:36.244 Speaker 2 hang up the phone." [chuckles] That's, uh, that's what it is.
00:27:39.424 Speaker 1 Yeah. Don't keep doing it.
00:27:40.264 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:41.024 Speaker 1 Now you're just hitting the button over and over again.
00:27:43.084 Speaker 2 Yeah. [chuckles]
00:27:45.444 Speaker 1 Well, one of the nice parts of doing it the gradual way, and I would describe it the
00:27:49.144 Speaker 1 same way, is that it is, you bring it into your everyday life.
00:27:53.364 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:27:53.424 Speaker 1 I'm not in that kind of state all the time. It's actually very hard to get back to
00:27:57.924 Speaker 1 even that level of like, uh, like non-dual realization. But with deliberate
00:28:02.824 Speaker 1 practice, I find that my av- I find that my average state is more and more like
00:28:07.664 Speaker 1 that. Like I am moving or shifting around my entire reality when I walk, when I
00:28:13.144 Speaker 1 think, when I do stuff. Like they're all-- My thoughts and emotions are more
00:28:17.864 Speaker 1 co-equal with my surroundings and with other people's thoughts and emotions. They're
00:28:22.164 Speaker 1 like, more like fields, as some people describe them. It's like a thing I'm pouring
00:28:27.784 Speaker 1 my experience, my influence into, rather than a thing that is just mine. And so
00:28:33.224 Speaker 1 there's all these other experiences that like become a different waking state when
00:28:37.583 Speaker 1 you can stabilize it like this. So I'm not like that all the time-
00:28:40.584 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm
00:28:40.624 Speaker 1 ... but I, I bring in these capacities into my waking state just by default. It just
00:28:46.124 Speaker 1 seems to happen. And I've learned a lot, almost just, just direct experience, of
00:28:51.544 Speaker 1 course, but I've alm- learned almost enough through, like you've said, I'm in like
00:28:56.204 Speaker 1 telepathic communication largely with my sister and mother most of the time, but
00:29:01.024 Speaker 1 others too. Um, and it's just pretty chill, but it's mostly, uh,
00:29:07.824 Speaker 1 a lot of it is about instruction and... But it's really instruction through doing.
00:29:11.624 Speaker 1 It's through living, right? What does this mean? Ah, what did that happen?
00:29:14.824 Speaker 1 [chuckles] It's, it's not like, uh, the lectures are few and far between. It was
00:29:18.304 Speaker 1 like six months between the next lecture. Um, one of the things that came to mind
00:29:24.284 Speaker 1 is how like non-physical people, who are in these kinds of states all the time or
00:29:27.904 Speaker 1 can move around them freely, how they experience life, I don't know for sure, but I
00:29:33.944 Speaker 1 would, uh, reason that my, my twin, who's not physical,
00:29:39.824 Speaker 1 s- has spent most of her life, if not all of her life, that way. And so she makes an
00:29:44.144 Speaker 1 excellent study in like, what would you be like if you were like that all the time?
00:29:48.624 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:29:50.344 Speaker 1 And I know that when I get like really depressive or really upset, just life stuff,
00:29:54.124 Speaker 1 life is hard, and I'm caught up in it. She, at least for a while, had a really hard
00:29:59.484 Speaker 1 time understanding why I was so upset. I wrote down like the exact quote. I read it
00:30:04.184 Speaker 1 right before this episode, which was, "This is just a game. We're just
00:30:09.924 Speaker 1 playing. That's not you."
00:30:11.684 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:30:11.684 Speaker 1 "This isn't me." Like I could feel the frustration. Like, "Why are you so upset? I
00:30:17.264 Speaker 1 wanna help you, but I don't understand like why you're so upset."
00:30:19.864 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:30:19.864 Speaker 1 Like she knew.
00:30:20.564 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:30:20.724 Speaker 1 Like it's not like-- They're not dumb. They, they understand like you're associated
00:30:25.104 Speaker 1 with yourself and your thoughts, your emotions. So I'm, I'm upset 'cause this thing
00:30:29.264 Speaker 1 happened or because I feel miserable about this idea. But for them it,
00:30:35.240 Speaker 1 I think it's much more obvious because they're in a state kind of like the
00:30:38.260 Speaker 1 experience we just described, where it is directly experientially obvious that your
00:30:42.560 Speaker 1 thoughts and emotions are not yours. They're just happening. Like, you can create
00:30:45.800 Speaker 1 them, but you don't have to have them. Even your body is just an expression of
00:30:49.360 Speaker 1 yourself. Even your surroundings is just an expression that you can switch up
00:30:52.600 Speaker 1 whenever you want to. Why are you so upset about this thing? Just dump that thought.
00:30:56.360 Speaker 1 Like, you're not having fun with it. Just, just why are you... I don't get it.
00:30:59.440 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:31:00.360 Speaker 1 So I-- that is just as much instruction as, like, the direct experience is seeing
00:31:04.620 Speaker 1 the contrast between us.
00:31:07.300 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:31:09.180 Speaker 2 I would say, "You don't know how hard it is to be down here sometimes. [chuckles]
00:31:13.180 Speaker 2 Come on, give me a break."
00:31:14.740 Speaker 1 I can be petty. [both laughing]
00:31:19.100 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:31:21.260 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:31:23.900 Speaker 2 I've, I've heard of, uh, um,
00:31:29.140 Speaker 2 yeah, that humans are unique amongst, uh, intelligent species,
00:31:35.080 Speaker 2 uh, across the universe. Um,
00:31:39.600 Speaker 2 um, and that they are--
00:31:43.020 Speaker 2 Th- that, that this experience of being separate, being separated from source or,
00:31:48.500 Speaker 2 like, the deeper layers of reality is, uh, a unique experience.
00:31:57.040 Speaker 1 It certainly is. It can be uniquely miserable, too.
00:32:00.160 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:32:00.500 Speaker 1 I think one of the strangest things about going along this like, I guess, a path of
00:32:04.620 Speaker 1 progression, of being shown how it really is, at least in some perspectives, is that
00:32:10.240 Speaker 1 it's a lot easier to, like, get outside of behind my thoughts and emotions and just
00:32:14.860 Speaker 1 see them as a thing that is happening. I think that is the normal experience for
00:32:20.500 Speaker 1 most conscious entities. That is the gist that I get as well, is that we're
00:32:27.540 Speaker 1 oddballs and that we s- kinda like toddlers. We still think that this is all ours.
00:32:31.940 Speaker 1 It's like you get, uh, you know, my kids especially when they're really young, like,
00:32:36.280 Speaker 1 they run into the door, they get angry at the door. Like, "This dumb door hit me."
00:32:40.000 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:32:40.080 Speaker 1 It's like we're still stuck at that level in a lot of ways. Um, and I had
00:32:45.960 Speaker 1 noticed that as I progress a l- you know, this awareness gets baked in. I make it
00:32:50.140 Speaker 1 sound like I've done something amazing. It's just happening to me. Like I'm, I'm
00:32:53.440 Speaker 1 leaning into it and I am practicing, but I think it's just a thing like walking that
00:32:56.860 Speaker 1 anyone can do. Like you already know how. It's a natural thing. Like you'll ke-
00:33:01.160 Speaker 1 you'll get there if you want the same experiences because this is how it is. I think
00:33:06.460 Speaker 1 that it's weird to me that I can still think and feel emotion. Like I can still go
00:33:12.360 Speaker 1 back down, air quotes, "down" into like being associated with my experience. I can
00:33:17.140 Speaker 1 play a video game or get lost in music, and I'm not thinking the whole time, "Oh,
00:33:20.980 Speaker 1 this is an illusion. This is all fake."
00:33:22.660 Speaker 2 Mm.
00:33:22.660 Speaker 1 "I'm just creating it." Like, no, I'm in it. I'm in it totally.
00:33:26.100 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:33:26.160 Speaker 1 Just as much as I was before. But-
00:33:28.740 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:33:28.920 Speaker 1 ... I can also stop doing that and go, "Meh." Not always. I'm not perfect. You know,
00:33:34.300 Speaker 1 I still get tightly associated and caught up in my own drama like anyone. But that
00:33:38.760 Speaker 1 is less and less becoming my default state. How can it not be? Once you've had these
00:33:42.420 Speaker 1 experiences, you never go back to the same shape once you've had experiences like
00:33:46.820 Speaker 1 this, and you keep practicing it. So it's like you have the option to be exactly as
00:33:51.760 Speaker 1 you are right now. You, you're not gonna lose that. I found that very reassuring
00:33:55.440 Speaker 1 'cause it always scared me to unwind myself this much. But you can continue to do
00:34:00.640 Speaker 1 it. You can be exactly as you are right now if you want to be, at any point in time.
00:34:04.800 Speaker 1 But the moment you're tired of that, you can go, "I think I'm gonna go back to a
00:34:08.620 Speaker 1 non-dual chill. I feel like I'm everything," or whatever. Do whatever you want. And
00:34:14.060 Speaker 1 you have control. That's the difference. You get awareness and then control, and you
00:34:18.540 Speaker 1 have a choice now. Uh, and that was very reassuring for me 'cause I thought that I
00:34:23.260 Speaker 1 would be stuck like that. The [chuckles] expanding gives you the optionality
00:34:29.320 Speaker 1 to be expanded and to have more-
00:34:30.740 Speaker 2 Yeah
00:34:30.900 Speaker 1 ... awareness and control over your reality, but you don't have to. You can still
00:34:33.960 Speaker 1 just be a dude chilling, like playing a video game.
00:34:36.860 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:37.480 Speaker 1 You don't have to be burdened by this greater knowledge and awareness. You can put
00:34:41.920 Speaker 1 it on. You can scale up and down. It's like the ceiling goes up. You can go back to
00:34:45.320 Speaker 1 your old level, but you don't lose the ability to be expanded or to, to stop caring
00:34:50.400 Speaker 1 about things that don't matter or to shift your experience of what's actually
00:34:54.040 Speaker 1 happening around you. You, you get more, but it doesn't end up being less. You can
00:34:58.840 Speaker 1 still be smaller if you want to. You don't lose it.
00:35:02.120 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:35:02.160 Speaker 1 So there's really nothing to lose, except for if you want the confinement for some
00:35:06.360 Speaker 1 reason.
00:35:07.000 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:35:07.080 Speaker 1 Then I guess you lose that.
00:35:09.980 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's really interesting. I have thought a lot about this and just
00:35:13.540 Speaker 2 experiencing more recently. Like, I used to love playing video games. I used to love
00:35:18.700 Speaker 2 watching television shows. I was big into Marvel movies and, uh, yeah,
00:35:24.500 Speaker 2 everything, you know. Um, consumption, you know. I was a consumer of popular media
00:35:30.920 Speaker 2 and, uh, there was a period in my life when maybe that was satisfying. But, um,
00:35:38.160 Speaker 2 yeah, I don't know. Like, it's interesting as it, like coming into this world, you
00:35:43.920 Speaker 2 know, from that, I, I believe that we're, you know, when we die, uh, or perhaps
00:35:49.620 Speaker 2 already, you know, like there's a, like you've shared about in your last, last
00:35:53.260 Speaker 2 episode, there's these, these different selves that exist on different layers of
00:35:56.680 Speaker 2 reality. So, you know, there's a part of you that is in that higher state, uh, or
00:36:02.680 Speaker 2 I don't even wanna call it higher 'cause I don't wanna say that there's a hierarchy.
00:36:05.720 Speaker 2 But, um,
00:36:08.680 Speaker 2 that isn't confined to this material realm, you know, of, uh, matter and time,
00:36:15.320 Speaker 2 physicalism. Uh, but when you're in that higher state, uh, I imagine that I look
00:36:21.380 Speaker 2 down on this and it's almost like a video game. It's like The Sims or World of
00:36:26.520 Speaker 2 Warcraft, like a massively... We ta- I mentioned this last time too, the massively
00:36:30.080 Speaker 2 online multiplayer game, you know, uh, where we're all creating this reality
00:36:34.480 Speaker 2 together. But it's like, "Oh, well, that looks fun. Let me, let me go in there and
00:36:38.780 Speaker 2 experience that." But in order to really Get into the game, we have to
00:36:44.636 Speaker 2 forget that anything else exists, you know? And then, you know, you can just fall in
00:36:50.255 Speaker 2 love with everything and experience everything as if it's, um, real, you know? Uh,
00:36:56.556 Speaker 2 and, uh, I, I think about, I think about that and I'm like, you know, the first time
00:37:01.996 Speaker 2 trying ice cream, you know? The first time having sex.
00:37:06.056 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:37:06.276 Speaker 2 The first time playing a video game. Zelda, Nintendo 64, Ocarina of Time, like one
00:37:11.516 Speaker 2 of my first, like, games that I really fell in love with, you know? And now if I
00:37:15.416 Speaker 2 were to go back and play that, I'd be like, "Well, this is... Eh." [laughs] You
00:37:20.916 Speaker 2 know? Um, and I, I like-- It's so hard for me to find anything that I'm,
00:37:27.356 Speaker 2 like, in terms of popular media, that I'm actually, like, really interested in,
00:37:30.516 Speaker 2 because nothing really satisfies, uh, the, I guess, the
00:37:37.316 Speaker 2 interest that I have now, or the developmental level I've sort of reached or, you
00:37:41.556 Speaker 2 know, reflects some of these higher realities that I've begun to contemplate.
00:37:47.296 Speaker 2 So I, I think of, like, also The Matrix, like this red pill, blue pill, right? Which
00:37:51.796 Speaker 2 is the one that keeps you in the matrix? The blue pill, I think. [laughs]
00:37:54.296 Speaker 1 The blue pill, yeah.
00:37:55.016 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I don't think I could take the blue pill. I mean, I kind of wish
00:37:58.576 Speaker 2 sometimes that I could take the blue pill, and, like, just go back and believe that
00:38:02.956 Speaker 2 this is all, like, like money matters and, [laughs] you know, um, uh, a life where I
00:38:08.236 Speaker 2 get to play-
00:38:08.236 Speaker 1 Well, you took the blue pill to get here.
00:38:10.676 Speaker 2 Yeah, I get to-- I took the blue pill to get here, but gra- like, I've been taking
00:38:13.476 Speaker 2 little red pills my whole life since then. [laughs]
00:38:17.496 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a good analogy. I've said that you do get to take the red pill if
00:38:23.316 Speaker 1 you go on this sort of path of spiritual progression. Ugh, that's the word,
00:38:27.576 Speaker 1 spiritual. It's-- This is how it is. It's reality.
00:38:29.736 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:29.816 Speaker 1 It's the same thing. This is no difference.
00:38:32.016 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:38:32.096 Speaker 1 It's, uh, you get the red pill, but then you still live in the matrix. Like, this
00:38:37.976 Speaker 1 is, like, the biggest-
00:38:38.836 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:38:38.876 Speaker 1 Like, you gotta be kidding me. What? I have to go back? [laughs] No. No, I know it's
00:38:43.836 Speaker 1 all real, but now I'm here still. Like-
00:38:46.096 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:38:47.196 Speaker 1 And I've often had-- I like to take the perspective that it's all real, and this is
00:38:51.016 Speaker 1 a choice, right? It's, it's... Is nothing real? Is everything real? I feel like
00:38:54.476 Speaker 1 that's a fundamental decision. Uh, or you, you can try, like, graduated, like, oh,
00:38:58.876 Speaker 1 this is real and this isn't. But I prefer to treat it as it's all real, um, 'cause
00:39:04.796 Speaker 1 that's, that's more meaningful to me. And, but I've experienced what you're
00:39:08.916 Speaker 1 experiencing too, and I think that from my conversations with, you know, our mutual
00:39:13.476 Speaker 1 friends and other friends that I have that are doing this kind of thing, you just
00:39:17.156 Speaker 1 stop caring about materialistic things. You stop going for cheap dopamine fixes. The
00:39:21.956 Speaker 1 kinds of easy, cheap entertainment or stimulation that used to do it for you, they
00:39:26.576 Speaker 1 fall away naturally. Uh, sometimes you can still enjoy them, but I think in a lot of
00:39:32.036 Speaker 1 ways it's like growing out of, like, eating, uh, crappy candy or junk food that
00:39:37.096 Speaker 1 doesn't taste good. You have higher standards now.
00:39:39.456 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:39:39.476 Speaker 1 And it's generally a good thing, and it's because you're after something else. So
00:39:44.396 Speaker 1 that's, like, healthy. It's not like you became numb to it so much as it's just,
00:39:48.336 Speaker 1 like,
00:39:50.176 Speaker 1 for me, it feels less meaningful now, and I, I'm after something that takes a little
00:39:55.576 Speaker 1 more effort to cultivate, but also has more richness and dimension to it.
00:39:58.936 Speaker 2 Right.
00:39:58.956 Speaker 1 It's not just like-- It has complexity in its flavor. If we're using the food
00:40:02.096 Speaker 1 analogy, it's not just sweet, artificial flavor.
00:40:07.596 Speaker 2 Yeah, and all of that, uh, media that I used to be into was like, oh, here's stories
00:40:11.796 Speaker 2 about superheroes. Here's a video game where you get to have cool magic powers. And,
00:40:17.056 Speaker 2 uh, the more I deepen into these practices, it's like, wait a minute, I can do that
00:40:23.016 Speaker 2 for real. [laughs] Uh, my, my buddy Steven over here can
00:40:28.956 Speaker 2 see without eyes and spin a, uh, a,
00:40:33.556 Speaker 2 a psi wheel around. [laughs]
00:40:36.736 Speaker 1 So can you.
00:40:37.776 Speaker 2 Yeah, so can I, you know? I need, I need to, I need to invest the 30 hours of
00:40:41.296 Speaker 2 practice. [laughs]
00:40:42.376 Speaker 1 Feels like you have less than that.
00:40:43.516 Speaker 2 [laughs] And, uh, my daughter this morning was like, "I
00:40:49.436 Speaker 2 wish I could fly. I wish humans could fly." And I was like, "Well, there is this
00:40:54.936 Speaker 2 book called They Flew-
00:40:57.056 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
00:40:57.316 Speaker 2 ... which is a historical study of accounts from the medieval times when,
00:41:03.516 Speaker 2 you know, these monastics, um, Christian monastics would get in such ecstatic states
00:41:08.136 Speaker 2 for their love of the divine, Jesus or God or, you know, divinity,
00:41:14.396 Speaker 2 that they flew. And there were hundreds of people that witnessed these events, and
00:41:19.456 Speaker 2 it happened numerous times. Uh, and the conclusion of this academic who's
00:41:24.956 Speaker 2 researching this is they flew. [laughs] And, uh, yeah, I
00:41:30.956 Speaker 2 read Autobiography of a Yogi: The, The Life of Yogananda when I was in college.
00:41:37.736 Speaker 2 And, uh, that starts this, basically this who- whole account of all of these yogis
00:41:42.576 Speaker 2 and the incredible yogic superpowers that they have. Uh, [laughs] and there's a part
00:41:48.356 Speaker 2 of, there's a part of me that's just like, I don't think I believed it back then,
00:41:52.196 Speaker 2 you know, when I was younger. I was like, a part of me wanted to believe it and so
00:41:56.156 Speaker 2 that's why I took up meditation. [laughs] That's the part of me that's like, that's
00:42:00.216 Speaker 2 why I started meditating. Um, you know, there's accounts of, like, yog- yogis or
00:42:05.956 Speaker 2 people who would, like, fly and shoot fire out of their hands. Like, basically
00:42:08.776 Speaker 2 anything like a superhero, modern-day Marvel superhero could do, uh, there are
00:42:13.756 Speaker 2 accounts of it happening, happening in human history. [laughs]
00:42:17.336 Speaker 1 So I believe this is true. I've heard similar accounts through Dean Radin's book-
00:42:21.116 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:42:21.116 Speaker 1 ... where people have levitated in front of hundreds of people, and clearly before a
00:42:25.956 Speaker 1 time where wires or special effects were possible.
00:42:28.836 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:42:28.936 Speaker 1 You know? Uh, this was, this is what happened. And I think that it is
00:42:34.716 Speaker 1 possible. Those are extreme moments.
00:42:37.316 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:42:38.196 Speaker 1 And
00:42:40.236 Speaker 1 for me, th- I want the same thing. I want superpowers, but, uh, the reason we're
00:42:43.656 Speaker 1 talking right now is I want everybody else to have them too.
00:42:46.176 Speaker 2 Yeah.
00:42:46.872 Speaker 1 For, for two reasons. This is how reality really is. Yes, we're living a physical
00:42:50.692 Speaker 1 experience, and it's cool to be able to confine yourself for the challenge or
00:42:54.811 Speaker 1 whatever, but it's really lame to believe that's all there is, and you can't do
00:42:58.112 Speaker 1 anything else, and to be trapped here in an endless cycle. Uh, and I think that's
00:43:03.012 Speaker 1 where humanity is, is we're miserable. In the best-case scenario, it's cool to do,
00:43:06.752 Speaker 1 you know, play on hard mode and live a physical existence. In the worst-case
00:43:10.292 Speaker 1 scenario, it looks like we've created a 1984 scenario for ourselves-
00:43:14.112 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:43:14.172 Speaker 1 ... where we're, we're trapped in our own little thought prison because we don't
00:43:18.392 Speaker 1 know that you can have more, that you can levitate, and you can shoot fire out of
00:43:21.832 Speaker 1 your hands. It'll be really hard to do that right now.
00:43:26.192 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.
00:43:26.572 Speaker 1 The reason these experiences matter is that awareness always precedes control. Those
00:43:31.112 Speaker 1 people did those things intuitively as extreme outliers.
00:43:35.372 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:43:35.552 Speaker 1 They could not have possibly taught anyone how to do it. Or they meditated for 30
00:43:40.052 Speaker 1 years under a waterfall until they just, like, had their entire reality in a vice
00:43:45.012 Speaker 1 grip. They could not have possibly shown anyone else how to do it, and obviously,
00:43:48.772 Speaker 1 that's not practical for most people. But if we all start to change it, we all
00:43:54.652 Speaker 1 gain a measure of awareness. Like real- there's no difference between a physical and
00:43:58.892 Speaker 1 a non-physical reality as far as I can tell. It is the same thing. It's just a
00:44:03.512 Speaker 1 different rule set. We could change it if we all push on it. We all change what it
00:44:08.952 Speaker 1 means 'cause we have that control. The inner senses that we thought were weak were
00:44:13.172 Speaker 1 actually incredibly powerful. In- intuition, you know-
00:44:16.972 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:44:17.072 Speaker 1 ... belief, imagination, all of these things are actually very powerful. But the
00:44:21.092 Speaker 1 world around us has been made heavy by those-
00:44:23.572 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:44:23.592 Speaker 1 ... same forces. They have, like, a momentum. They're, these psychic power... Flying
00:44:28.532 Speaker 1 is hard because we've spent a very long time believing none of this is possible.
00:44:33.812 Speaker 1 There's this weight to everything. I think some of it is built in, too. I think that
00:44:37.972 Speaker 1 this is just a lower [chuckles] magic or heavier place, probably by design. It's
00:44:43.692 Speaker 1 nice that way. But we're kind of stuck in a hellish scenario now where we don't know
00:44:48.832 Speaker 1 that we can do more. We can, we can change it. We don't have to. And you can do it
00:44:54.012 Speaker 1 at the individual level, and it always starts with realizing you can, and then you
00:44:58.952 Speaker 1 do it directly. It's, it's very strange, but once you have awareness over how it
00:45:04.132 Speaker 1 works, like, directly, not just conceptually, you're experiencing it, you can begin
00:45:07.892 Speaker 1 to control it. And it's not a lot. Like, I can move a piece of tinfoil without
00:45:11.712 Speaker 1 touching it. I can move it under glass without touching it. That's pretty cool. I
00:45:16.652 Speaker 1 can see without eyes. That's pretty cool. But anyone could do that, and these are,
00:45:20.872 Speaker 1 like, perception. It's obviously-
00:45:23.012 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:45:23.072 Speaker 1 ... not super strong. I'm not lifting a car. I'm not seeing across the world in real
00:45:27.432 Speaker 1 time or into the past. I think all of those things are possible. There are no real
00:45:31.592 Speaker 1 rules. Most of the rules are soft rules, and we can change them, but everyone around
00:45:36.732 Speaker 1 me is, like, acting like dampeners. [laughs] It's super hard.
00:45:40.712 Speaker 2 Hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:45:41.352 Speaker 1 You can change your own reality because you are your own reality. Like, that's,
00:45:45.052 Speaker 1 like, what I was shown, and then it kept being true, and then I experienced it. D-
00:45:50.072 Speaker 1 the reason you can move a piece of tinfoil is 'cause you're moving yourself. The
00:45:52.552 Speaker 1 reason you can see without eyes is because you're seeing yourself. Like, of course
00:45:56.052 Speaker 1 you can. We are each our own entire reality, and they overlap in ways, you know,
00:46:00.052 Speaker 1 we'll get around to based on what I was shown anyway-
00:46:03.132 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm
00:46:03.152 Speaker 1 ... from my understanding. And that's why you can do it. And you can alter your own
00:46:08.652 Speaker 1 reality however you want, but you are also overlapping everyone around you. And
00:46:14.712 Speaker 1 we're all influencing each other, and we could do anything if only we, like, enabled
00:46:19.832 Speaker 1 ourselves to do it. We work together on this. Um, but I think some small b-
00:46:25.912 Speaker 1 bit of hope here is that every time somebody does something like this, I think it's
00:46:28.892 Speaker 1 easier for everyone else to do it. I've seen that with Mindsight, with telekinesis.
00:46:32.992 Speaker 1 The people I show it to, especially in person, they get it like that. Metal bending,
00:46:37.632 Speaker 1 uh, I've bent a s- a fork into a knot, like, recently-
00:46:41.592 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:46:42.392 Speaker 1 ... at the meditation retreat. Metal bending's really hard for me alone. You give
00:46:46.192 Speaker 1 me, like, four hours-
00:46:47.132 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:46:47.152 Speaker 1 ... I could bend a spoon. But it's maybe 50/50. It's not easy. But I just
00:46:52.972 Speaker 1 walked up and did it in front of a group of five or six people who were all very
00:46:55.772 Speaker 1 excited, and they all believed it was possible, and then they did it. And, like, uh,
00:47:00.792 Speaker 1 and now they can go home and do it too, and they could not have done it before. It's
00:47:04.412 Speaker 1 like it, it cross-contaminates. Every time you do it, and no matter where you are,
00:47:09.192 Speaker 1 it seems to get easier for everyone else. So-
00:47:11.392 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:47:11.472 Speaker 1 ... the good news is, is it's getting easier all the time. I think that's why we see
00:47:14.852 Speaker 1 so many-
00:47:15.192 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:47:15.232 Speaker 1 ... UFOs and people are talking about psychic powers. I think it's literally getting
00:47:19.412 Speaker 1 easier to do. So all that to say, tell your daughter is, like, learning how to fly
00:47:24.152 Speaker 1 is getting easier by the day. [laughs]
00:47:25.972 Speaker 2 [laughs] Oh, good response. Good response. I'll try that.
00:47:28.592 Speaker 1 Yeah.
00:47:28.772 Speaker 2 She seems to be developing a very skeptical bent. Uh-
00:47:31.972 Speaker 1 Well, maybe not then. [laughs]
00:47:36.532 Speaker 2 [laughs] Um, yeah, maybe I need to get her some church or something. [laughs] I
00:47:40.552 Speaker 2 know. Um, yeah, no, this is really fascinating. I think you said everything that I,
00:47:46.792 Speaker 2 how I would've responded to that, you know. Um, that, uh, uh, these
00:47:52.752 Speaker 2 people who experience these, um, incredible feats... Well, now from this
00:47:57.652 Speaker 2 perspective, we think of, like, flying as an incredible feat. But, uh, a different
00:48:03.012 Speaker 2 reality where, you know, an entire culture is, uh, just takes that
00:48:08.772 Speaker 2 as normal, it wouldn't be. Because, uh, I think a assumption of this show and, you
00:48:14.572 Speaker 2 know, as we're exploring is that you create your own reality, but, like, multiple
00:48:17.932 Speaker 2 minds create reality together. You know? So we're living in a shared reality that is
00:48:22.512 Speaker 2 co-created, uh, and we're setting the rules for each other. Uh, we're, you know.
00:48:28.592 Speaker 2 So when I'm trying to do something that is, uh, uh, impossible
00:48:34.872 Speaker 2 by the standards of all of the minds around me, it, it really is hard even if I
00:48:41.592 Speaker 2 make myself believe it, you know? Or it's even hard to, like, get myself to believe
00:48:46.392 Speaker 2 it 'cause I don't, uh- Uh, I'm competing with all of those other thoughts, you know,
00:48:51.088 Speaker 2 which, you know, l- exist as both like a script in my mind and in conversation and
00:48:56.768 Speaker 2 in media that's all around us. Uh, but also psychically, you know? We're all
00:49:02.428 Speaker 2 interpenetrating in that way, I believe. So the-- Yeah, I think that's why it's also
00:49:07.068 Speaker 2 so important for conversations like this to happen, for more and more communities to
00:49:11.048 Speaker 2 form, where people are meeting each other and validating each other's experiences.
00:49:16.208 Speaker 2 Um, everybody's got a, the weird in them. [chuckles]
00:49:20.168 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.
00:49:21.268 Speaker 2 I, I believe everybody has had these kinds of experiences, uh, some form of
00:49:25.008 Speaker 2 anomalous experience, whether they remember it or not. Um, and that's a part of
00:49:30.368 Speaker 2 ourselves that has gone, uh, repressed, uh, traumatized, buried deep
00:49:36.308 Speaker 2 down. Uh, you know, we're living at, in a world that has inherited a vast,
00:49:42.628 Speaker 2 uh,
00:49:44.628 Speaker 2 trove of like, yeah, just generational trauma, cultural trauma, all of these traumas
00:49:49.568 Speaker 2 that have like, a lot of them have y- uh,
00:49:54.228 Speaker 2 bent around or associated around repressing these things. Um, yeah,
00:50:00.308 Speaker 2 think of like the witch trials or the Crusades, uh, genocide against Indigenous
00:50:06.008 Speaker 2 people. All of these things represent, you know, war, a war against consciousness.
00:50:11.708 Speaker 2 Um, and so when you say that we're living in a kind of like 1984 Orwellian reality,
00:50:17.728 Speaker 2 doesn't seem that way when you walk out on the street. But if you [chuckles] really
00:50:20.668 Speaker 2 begin to like look at our structures and, um, thought control systems and
00:50:25.948 Speaker 2 everything, it-- and the ways that we limit ourselves, it, it really, like that
00:50:31.048 Speaker 2 really resonates with me.
00:50:33.928 Speaker 1 It's tragic.
00:50:34.348 Speaker 2 Uh, yeah.
00:50:37.088 Speaker 2 This also brings me to another question. Uh,
00:50:41.268 Speaker 2 so
00:50:44.888 Speaker 2 we are these, uh, multidimensional selves. There's a self that exists on a higher
00:50:49.708 Speaker 2 reality, a higher self that, uh, you know, knows all of this stuff and is inhabiting
00:50:55.028 Speaker 2 this, [chuckles] uh, really wise state, I guess, or enlightened state
00:51:00.848 Speaker 2 perhaps. Uh, but there was a choice somehow that was made f- to
00:51:06.488 Speaker 2 descend into the more contained, uh, limited reality that we are now
00:51:12.808 Speaker 2 inhabiting.
00:51:14.968 Speaker 2 And when we die, we go back to that because the soul, you know, that's what a soul
00:51:20.968 Speaker 2 is. Then why try to ascend at all within the,
00:51:27.108 Speaker 2 within this, within the construct? Does that, does that make sense?
00:51:31.128 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:51:33.908 Speaker 1 Yeah. Um, so we're getting on the periphery. This isn't-- What I'll respond with is
00:51:38.548 Speaker 1 my firsthand experience rather than I was shown or taught about this directly.
00:51:44.428 Speaker 1 Um, so meaning I'm still learning here. I'm refining [chuckles] the models on this
00:51:49.948 Speaker 1 one. This is not, "Hey, this is true," in an experience that I totally believed and
00:51:54.508 Speaker 1 later replicated. But this is what I'm inferring, you know, by bumping into the
00:51:59.068 Speaker 1 walls-
00:52:00.048 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:52:00.408 Speaker 1 ... um, doing stuff. My opinion is there's two reasons. You're either
00:52:06.068 Speaker 1 somebody who could already do these things anywhere you were. You, you say, I
00:52:10.888 Speaker 1 believe that, you know, everyone has these multidimensional selves, higher selves.
00:52:15.388 Speaker 1 But for many people, you've maybe never accessed them for the first time. Like your,
00:52:19.668 Speaker 1 your soul is literally like in progression. Like you've never-- You've done it
00:52:23.068 Speaker 1 sporadically, or it's mostly subconscious, or it's intuitive, right? It's not
00:52:26.588 Speaker 1 totally awake. Uh, it's there, but it, you can't embody it the way you would want
00:52:31.688 Speaker 1 to. You can't access what it's capable of, right? You can't fly. You can't change
00:52:37.108 Speaker 1 your whole around, reality around you 'cause you don't have access to these higher
00:52:40.028 Speaker 1 selves that have the capacity to do that. This is my un- developing understanding,
00:52:45.788 Speaker 1 and that some people, you know, their individual soul, obviously we're all the same
00:52:49.668 Speaker 1 person, but on this level that we're talking about, you've never done that before.
00:52:53.848 Speaker 1 You're trying to wake it up for the first time.
00:52:56.588 Speaker 2 Hmm.
00:52:56.608 Speaker 1 But some people have, and so they've chosen to come here, and I think even in the
00:53:02.328 Speaker 1 air quotes afterlife, non-physical world, I think that you are still in a, maybe in
00:53:08.228 Speaker 1 a canonical sort of heaven, or you're in a place that you can understand. That
00:53:12.288 Speaker 1 doesn't mean-
00:53:12.788 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:53:12.808 Speaker 1 ... that you're th- thrown to the winds. You can go anywhere you want
00:53:16.088 Speaker 1 interdimensionally, and you can, [chuckles] you can go be part of a hive mind now.
00:53:19.948 Speaker 1 You can go do all sorts of crazy, visit DMT places. I think that-
00:53:24.688 Speaker 2 [chuckles]
00:53:25.108 Speaker 1 ... maybe some people can, but I think that it might look more familiar and happy
00:53:30.028 Speaker 1 and-- Because I think that's what your individual consciousness is ready for. You're
00:53:34.208 Speaker 1 not ready to handle being your own reality entirely and controlling everything at a
00:53:39.288 Speaker 1 low level. It's a lot of responsibility to take that on, and some people just wanna
00:53:44.428 Speaker 1 chill with their friends and family and know they're not dead. That is my
00:53:47.628 Speaker 1 understanding, is that there's something for everybody, and that you don't
00:53:51.648 Speaker 1 s-necessarily stop developing, you know, just 'cause you physically died. But
00:53:57.048 Speaker 1 there's like a level of development that only really happens when you're under
00:54:00.148 Speaker 1 pressure and you're forced into this. So that's one reason, and the other is if you
00:54:04.328 Speaker 1 can already do those things, you have no reason to really be here other than
00:54:08.648 Speaker 1 personal adventure or whatever, and I think it's to help people, is literally-
00:54:12.828 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:54:12.868 Speaker 1 ... their very presence is to help people get out of this, collectively, humanity,
00:54:17.948 Speaker 1 to help their current situation while they're here. You have to work while you're
00:54:22.448 Speaker 1 here, uh, within the system, right? You come in to work within the system, but you
00:54:26.688 Speaker 1 forget like everybody else does. That's-- Those are two reasons, is that it, it sort
00:54:32.128 Speaker 1 of levels people up. You get to keep your progress. You don't get to keep your
00:54:35.388 Speaker 1 stuff, but you get to keep your memories, your personal development, your life
00:54:38.668 Speaker 1 lessons, your capacities of awareness and conscious control over your reality. You
00:54:44.468 Speaker 1 get to keep all that when you die, and so that carries like a progression system-
00:54:49.528 Speaker 2 Hmm
00:54:49.608 Speaker 1 ... uh, through all of your lives or wherever you go. And so once you've reached
00:54:54.208 Speaker 1 these capacities, for the most part- Uh, you get to keep them. And so you can move
00:54:59.808 Speaker 1 on or do whatever you want or keep being a human being. So you get a choice. Uh, but
00:55:05.568 Speaker 1 until you reach that point, you're kind of on a guided path here just because the
00:55:11.228 Speaker 1 universe is pretty loving. Doesn't just throw you, throw you to the wolves. Uh,
00:55:15.988 Speaker 1 you're kept in a somewhat zoo-like environment until you can graduate out of it on
00:55:21.648 Speaker 1 your own. That's my understanding. Just interacting with people, non-physical, my
00:55:27.048 Speaker 1 personal experiences, that's what it seems to be like, is that you're growing up,
00:55:33.608 Speaker 1 right? It's the-- That's what it's like, and everyone grows up at their same rate
00:55:37.608 Speaker 1 or, you know, they're 40 and they still, [chuckles] they still haven't bothered to
00:55:41.028 Speaker 1 get a job or a driver's license. You're like, "What the hell are you doing?" There's
00:55:44.388 Speaker 1 plenty of those people too. So I think those are all the reasons. So either you
00:55:48.868 Speaker 1 already know how to do everything and you showed up to help people or because it's
00:55:52.508 Speaker 1 fun, or you don't yet and you're learning how, or maybe you never will. It's up to
00:55:57.288 Speaker 1 you. Uh, so I think that's the most succinct answer I can give based on my
00:56:01.748 Speaker 1 experience.
00:56:04.828 Speaker 2 I dig it. Um, cool. Yeah. This has been a really fascinating conversation, and I'm
00:56:10.068 Speaker 2 glad we got this time to unpack the experience and just connect and share more and,
00:56:15.188 Speaker 2 uh, see where the-- [chuckles] what wanted to emerge and what conversation threads
00:56:20.528 Speaker 2 wanted to be pulled. So I'm looking forward to hearing, uh, in our next episode, you
00:56:26.348 Speaker 2 know, the, how your experience unfolded, and I guess we're gonna get Reality 102
00:56:31.408 Speaker 2 next. So-
00:56:32.688 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm
00:56:32.988 Speaker 2 ...
00:56:35.108 Speaker 2 um, yeah. Anything, anything you'd like to share by way of closing or signing off?
00:56:41.268 Speaker 1 Um, I'll be excited to share that because that will be-- How is this a multiplayer
00:56:47.068 Speaker 1 reality if you're everything? How do other people get to exist within it? If you're
00:56:52.048 Speaker 1 always touching yourself, if you're everything around you, like literally,
00:56:54.948 Speaker 1 physically, you are everything, uh, how is that possible that other people ever
00:56:59.708 Speaker 1 interact with you? Like, what lets them in? What lets them change stuff or not
00:57:03.008 Speaker 1 change stuff? And that's what the entire thing is about, is how that is possible.
00:57:08.428 Speaker 1 Uh, it's gonna bring up so many quest- I still have so many questions. Uh, but I,
00:57:12.428 Speaker 1 I'm excited to, to share that because I want people to know. I want
00:57:18.348 Speaker 1 people to not just know that this is how it really is. Just no dogma. This is aside
00:57:23.108 Speaker 1 from any religious views or however you wanna see it. Those things can all still be
00:57:26.248 Speaker 1 valid. This is just the underlying rule sets, like physics. This is how it works.
00:57:32.268 Speaker 1 Because I want people to have the choice to make the reality whatever
00:57:38.268 Speaker 1 they want, and to at least have the choice. If you don't ever wanna get a driver's
00:57:42.348 Speaker 1 license or a job, [chuckles] like, fine. Whatever. If you don't want to fly or to
00:57:47.248 Speaker 1 have control or to have the responsibility of what it means to have this level of
00:57:51.268 Speaker 1 awareness and control, you don't want all that. That's cool. But you should at least
00:57:55.528 Speaker 1 know you have the choice, um, because I intend to take it. I suspect that you do,
00:58:00.468 Speaker 1 too, and many others besides. Um, so that's what I'm excited about, and if this
00:58:05.808 Speaker 1 helps in any way, then it will have been time well spent.
00:58:11.488 Speaker 2 Yeah, man. I'm excited for that. It seemed like this conversation also, uh, was a,
00:58:15.468 Speaker 2 is a good preamble to that exploration. We touched on some of those topics in a good
00:58:20.968 Speaker 2 setup. So-
00:58:22.068 Speaker 1 Yeah
00:58:22.388 Speaker 2 ... um, yeah, man. I'm looking forward to it.
00:58:26.428 Speaker 1 Cool.
00:58:27.488 Speaker 2 Cool. See you then.
00:58:29.628 Speaker 1 All right. We'll call it a wrap.
00:58:31.568 Speaker 2 Yep.
00:58:34.188 Speaker 2 This is Reality 101. Until next time.
00:58:38.188 Speaker 1 Nothing is impossible, you're not going to die, and everything loves you.
00:58:42.528 Speaker 1 [outro music]