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Speaker 1: [intro jingle]

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Speaker 1: Hello, travelers. So today's gonna be
a pretty short dev commentary. After the

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Speaker 1: commentary, I'm going to air an
interview I did with a friend, Tony, on a
podcast

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Speaker 1: called "The Creative Mindset."

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Speaker 1: Mortal Steel Episode 10 will not be
ready for your morning commute tomorrow, but it

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Speaker 1: will come out tomorrow. It took a
little bit longer because I had to do some

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Speaker 1: non-human voice effects that took an
enormous amount of time. But I think it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be worth the wait. So it'll still
come out tomorrow. There's actually gonna be

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Speaker 1: another delay between Mortal Steel
episodes 11 and 12. Now,

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Speaker 1: that's purely because episode 12, the
finale for Mortal Steel, is incredibly

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Speaker 1: awesome and almost twice as long as a
normal episode. So I wanna make sure I take

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Speaker 1: the time to get that one right. I
think it'll take about three weeks. It could
take

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Speaker 1: up to four weeks. Now, if it takes
over three weeks, I will take a little bit of

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Speaker 1: time to create a short story, and
I'll drop that here. And that's because

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Speaker 1: Steven always delivers. Let it be
known. I always deliver.

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Speaker 1: All right, moving on to some more
news. You're probably going to want to pick up a

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Speaker 1: little bit of Ethereum or Solana.
Now, if you don't know what those are, don't
worry

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a whole bit of
blockchain and NFT education later in the year,
maybe

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Speaker 1: early next year. So if you don't know
what those are, don't worry about it. And

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna need much, because
remember, you're here early, and the people who

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Speaker 1: are here early and support early. And
if you listened to the last dev commentary,

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Speaker 1: you know that I reward early
supporters. All right, next up, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna run a contest towards the end
of November, early December, for sound design

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Speaker 1: and writing. So if you want an
opportunity to learn how to make sound effects
like

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Speaker 1: we do in Mortal Steel or try your
hand at writing, this is a good opportunity for

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Speaker 1: you. There's gonna be some cash
prizes, and I'm collaborating with another
creator,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna have some, uh, other
interesting prizes as well. You'll hear a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about that probably
in a week or two as we finalize the details.

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Speaker 1: While this contest is just for
writing and sound design, if you're a visual
artist

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Speaker 1: or a musician, uh, I'd still like to
hear from you. We're gonna need all sorts going

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Speaker 1: forward, and now would be a great
time to connect. Now, if you're a 3D

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Speaker 1: modeler, I would really like to speak
with you. I'll let you use your

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Speaker 1: imagination on why I might need that
one.

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Speaker 1: All right, moving on to season two
updates. The casting calls are going out soon
for

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Speaker 1: season two. Art and music is still
underway. And I can say that the visual art
looks

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Speaker 1: incredibly cool. And if you're not
already aware, season two is not a direct sequel

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Speaker 1: to Mortal Steel. It's an entirely
separate story in an entirely new world with

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Speaker 1: different characters. And we're gonna
be doing that with every season. Now, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that we can't or won't
do direct sequels. But if we're gonna do direct

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Speaker 1: sequels, we're gonna need more money,
and we're gonna need a bigger team.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of which, for season two, I
am going to try to

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Speaker 1: absolutely blow your minds. So part
of that means I have doubled

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Speaker 1: the production for art and music. I
am increasing the budget everywhere I can to

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Speaker 1: make it awesome. And the reason I'm
doing that is I have a theory. I believe that

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Speaker 1: doubling down on the production
quality is the way to help everybody.

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Speaker 1: I think it's what you want.

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Speaker 1: And it's really a leap of faith,
honestly. I choose to believe that this money is

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Speaker 1: gonna come back to us eventually
because people want to support creators who are

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Speaker 1: putting in the time, putting in the
money, putting in the effort to make something

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Speaker 1: great. And we're putting in 30,
40-hour weeks on this show while working
full-time.

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Speaker 1: It's not easy. And at our current
burn rate, especially the new burn rate with
this

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Speaker 1: increased production budget, we're
probably gonna run out of money in about six

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Speaker 1: months. Now, that sounds very scary,
but we've got six months. And

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Speaker 1: until then, like I said, I am going
to do absolutely everything

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Speaker 1: I can to blow your minds.

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Speaker 1: Finally, remember,

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Speaker 1: Collected is not mine. It's ours. I'm
just getting it started. This is

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Speaker 1: an ecosystem. It's going to take a
lot of people, a lot of effort, and a

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Speaker 1: fair amount of money to bring this
vision to life.

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Speaker 1: But when you start to see what I have
planned, oh man, it is so,

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Speaker 1: so going to be worth it. This is not
a podcast. It looks like a podcast right now,

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Speaker 1: but it really is not.

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Speaker 1: Now, without further ado, let's hear
my interview with Tony at The Creative

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Speaker 1: Mindset. See you, travelers.

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Speaker 2: Mortal Steel. [rock music] Pastor
Ethan

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Speaker 2: Cutter was wheeled down the hallway
of the advanced clinic, the only such building

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Speaker 2: in Last Respite, one of the three
remaining human strongholds in the old Los
Angeles

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Speaker 2: area. It differed from the other
clinics in Last Respite. Those were hot, cramped

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Speaker 2: buildings packed with people too sick
to cure, too injured to heal. If you went to a

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Speaker 2: clinic, you usually went there to
die. Steven Schrembeck.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Tony.

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Speaker 2: Hey, how's it going, man?

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Speaker 1: You know, life is, is too good to me.
I keep waking up and thinking it can't be

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Speaker 1: real. [laughs]

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Speaker 3: Oh, really?

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Speaker 1: I, I love it. I really do love my
life. Uh, and it is an active thing, uh, that I

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Speaker 1: cultivate that mindset, but it works
and I'm just having fun. I really am

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Speaker 1: having fun. It's not all fun, but
it's almost all fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Cool. What, what's fun?

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Speaker 1: I wake up every day trying to do
something, trying to make the most out of the

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Speaker 1: day. Um, and this is, again, this is
a deliberate mindset. I don't always, didn't

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Speaker 1: always do that. But now I just have
this feeling that today is, like, potential.

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Speaker 1: It's something I can use to make
something important happen, right? This is,
like,

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Speaker 1: my ammunition. This is all, all I've
got. Uh, as opposed to just waking up and

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Speaker 1: trying to get through the day, I am
waking up like, "How much can I squeeze out of

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Speaker 1: this day, uh, in the best possible
way?" I do a lot of boring stuff that's

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Speaker 1: important, [laughs] but... And I
don't look forward to those things, right? Those

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Speaker 1: are still painful, but I look forward
to what it means. I feel like I'm making

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Speaker 1: progress every day, right?

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Speaker 3: Forward movement, man. That's my
phrase for 2021, forward movement.

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Speaker 1: [laughs] Okay.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, how, how do you sustain
that attitude? I mean, what is it that excites

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Speaker 3: you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What's the stuff that you're thinking
of that gets you motivated?

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Speaker 1: Most of it comes from feeding a
passion, right? And it is, it is l- it is a

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Speaker 1: deliberate act of will. This isn't
just something you get. It doesn't just

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Speaker 1: happen to you, this kind of
excitement and fulfillment. You have to build
it. And

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Speaker 1: it... The fire dies down just a
little bit every day, too. You have to keep
putting

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Speaker 1: logs on it, right? I think that's a
very apt metaphor. Um, so what kinds of things

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Speaker 1: are... excite me? Well, I mean,
that's just unique to me, right? Certain kinds
of

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Speaker 1: projects, certain kinds of ideas get
me really excited. You know, everyone's got

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Speaker 1: their own thing. For me, it's
tinkering. It's figuring out what the rules are
for a

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Speaker 1: system and then breaking them or
seeing just how far you can press them. It's...
I

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Speaker 1: am heavily motivated by curiosity.
I'd say that's a driving force in my life and

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Speaker 1: everything I'm interested in. The
moment I feel like I know what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in whatever I'm doing, I'm no longer
interested. I, I need that uncertainty to keep

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Speaker 1: me going. So I kinda live, I try to
live on the edge. [laughs] This sounds very

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Speaker 1: exciting. We're talking about, like,
writing stories here. [laughs] I'm not actually

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Speaker 1: living on the edge. I'm not, like, a
stunt driver or anything. Um, but I love that

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Speaker 1: uncertainty. It's in- it's
intoxicating to me. Uh, but also potential,
right? Not

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Speaker 1: just uncertainty in a terrible way.
Is it gonna hurt a five or is it gonna hurt 10?

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Speaker 1: Like, that's not exciting. Um, it has
to be good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm gonna guess you're not
the kinda person that likes to rewatch movies or

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Speaker 3: TV shows that you've already seen.

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Speaker 1: No. I hate that.

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Speaker 3: Me too.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I never
understood the people who did. Uh, I watch it
once

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Speaker 1: and I love it. Now, the very best,
the very best I will watch again, but I will

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Speaker 1: watch them again, like, a year or two
later. Like, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World,

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Speaker 1: okay, I've probably got five views on
that.

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Speaker 3: [laughs]

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Speaker 1: And you're, like, top, top of the
charts. Like, that's the most I will ever watch
a

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Speaker 1: favorite movie, which sounds crazy,
but I would rather watch something new.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed. Me too. Although
recently I, I have gone back and started
watching

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Speaker 3: things that I watched-

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Speaker 1: Yeah

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Speaker 3: ... about 10 years ago. And some of
them I remember and I skip through those

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Speaker 3: episodes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I watch it, but what's funny is
when I rewatch it, I watch it to find

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Speaker 1: something new. Even then, I'm not
just basking in what I already love. I'm still

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Speaker 1: looking for the things I missed, and
when I feel like there's nothing left there,

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Speaker 1: uh, I'm out. [laughs]

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, you're different. 10
years has passed. I'm different.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: And I see things and find m- meaning
in a different way from, from it than I

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Speaker 3: did 10 years ago when I didn't-

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Speaker 1: Yeah

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Speaker 3: ... really... You know, I never liked
Star Trek: Enterprise.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 3: You know the one with Scott Bakula?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you're talking
about.

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Speaker 3: S- I watched maybe three episodes and
said, "This sucked," and I hated-

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Speaker 1: [laughs]

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Speaker 3: ... Jolene Blalock. Uh, well, I...
Not her, but her character, T'Pol.

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Speaker 1: It's impersonal.

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Speaker 3: Just recently have I gone back,
'cause I don't watch that much television, but
I'll

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Speaker 3: watch... I'll try... You know, I may
watch one episode a night if I am really into

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Speaker 3: the show, and I really am into... I
really got into Enterprise and I came to really

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Speaker 3: love the character of T'Pol, and I
watched the thing from start to finish, and it's

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Speaker 3: because I'm different.

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Speaker 1: So what changed is you. It's like
changing taste, right? You used to hate
broccoli,

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Speaker 1: now you love it, right? It's, you
have to resample things because you change as a

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Speaker 1: person. Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: [instrumental music]

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Speaker 3: Pastor Ethan Cutter was wheeled down
the hallway of the Advanced Clinic, the only

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Speaker 3: such building in Last Respite, one of
the three remaining human strongholds in the

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Speaker 3: old Los Angeles area. It differed
from the other clinics in Last Respite. Those
were

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Speaker 3: hot, cramped buildings packed with
people too sick to cure, too injured to heal. If

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Speaker 3: you went to a clinic, you usually
went there to die. The Advanced Clinic, in stark

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Speaker 3: contrast, was the pinnacle of human
achievement. It was the place you went to become

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Speaker 3: something greater. But like the other
clinics, it was also a place you usually went

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Speaker 3: to die. Ethan told himself he was
prepared to die. He'd told everyone else that at

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Speaker 3: every step along the way, but as they
prepped him for surgery, he found that he was

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Speaker 3: actually terrified. Maybe it wasn't
too late to back out. Dr.

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Speaker 3: Marie Singer glanced at a rapidly
beeping machine.

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Speaker 4: Your heart rate's rising.

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Speaker 5: What can I expect here, Doc?

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Speaker 3: She smiled reassuringly and held his
hand as they wheeled his gurney toward the

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Speaker 3: operating room.

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Speaker 4: This will be easier than any of your
training until now. This next step is on us.

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Speaker 4: We'll take good care of you

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Speaker 1: Just like they'd taken care of the
first three candidates before him? The ones that

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Speaker 1: had died on the operating room floor?
He wasn't supposed to know about that.

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Speaker 6: What is Collected Stories?

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Speaker 1: So, uh, straight off the marketing,
Collective is a immersive audio platform.

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Speaker 1: And what does that mean exactly?
It's... These are just... It's like an audiobook

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Speaker 1: with sound effects, a full team of
voice actors, music, visual art, right? It's

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Speaker 1: everything I could throw in there
that makes it feel like you're actually there,

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Speaker 1: right? It's like a TV show with the
picture turned off, right? That's what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to do. But there's a narrator.
That's, that's the trick, right? I throw that

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Speaker 1: in there. Um, so it is those stories.
Right now it's a podcast, uh, because I am in

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Speaker 1: the trenches. Like, I am building
this thing and getting practice, and it's a

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Speaker 1: podcast just so I can get it out
there. Uh, but eventually it's a subscription

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Speaker 1: service, right? So sometime early
next year. Um, it's not just art to me, it's

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Speaker 1: business. Um, so early next year the
business really starts. Um, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: monthly subscription. I'm gonna bring
in authors and voice actors and artists and

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Speaker 1: composers from everywhere. Um, so
that is what it is, is these stories delivered
to

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Speaker 1: you weekly, kind of like a TV show
almost, dropping into an RSS feed. But really,

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Speaker 1: that's just, like, what it is. The
reason behind it is so much more to me, and I

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Speaker 1: find myself more and more motivated
by the why, that second reason, not just making

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Speaker 1: the art, but the purpose for the art.
I find more and more my motivation is coming

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Speaker 1: from that why, rather than just
self-gratification of making something cool.
Now, I

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Speaker 1: still feel that, and I still love it.
I still love making the art. But now that it

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Speaker 1: has a purpose beyond me, I'm that
much more motivated.

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Speaker 6: That's cool. Well, it's, it's pretty
amazing. When we first met, when you said, uh,

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Speaker 6: this is what you were doing, you
know, my first impression was, uh, okay, put it
on

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Speaker 6: audible.com and somebody's reading
a... It, it'll be like somebody reading a book.

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Speaker 6: But it's not that at all. It's
extremely compelling. The stories are really
good,

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Speaker 6: and the production is, is very good,
too.

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Speaker 1: Always improving.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, man. When you and I first met,
it was just you, but you have grown this into,

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Speaker 6: you, like you said, you hire voice
act- You hire actors-

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Speaker 1: Yeah

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Speaker 6: ... and you are adding sound effects
and layered textures

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Speaker 6: and narration. I very much enjoy
listening. I get into this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it started as a theory, and
most people have that reaction, by the way. Eh,

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Speaker 1: it's an audiobook, right? What do I
get? And so some people know what an audio drama

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Speaker 1: is. They may remember the old radio
dramas or know of them, right? It is... I

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Speaker 1: describe this as halfway between an
audiobook and an audio drama. I am so excited

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Speaker 1: about this format, totally
independent what if I'm doing. I really hope it
takes

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Speaker 1: off. Like, totally separate from me,
other people go off and make this, because I

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Speaker 1: think it really has potential. It is
just so, so cool. It offers

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Speaker 1: something that none of the other
mediums offer. I can get into that. I can geek
out

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Speaker 1: on that. But ultimately, that's part
of what motivates me, is I think there's

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Speaker 1: something here. It's not something I
made. It has a life of its own. It is an

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Speaker 1: opportunity in the world, uh, that
has already existed. It was already there. I'm

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Speaker 1: just somebody who stumbled on it,
right? I'm not even the first person to stumble

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Speaker 1: upon this idea. I'm just the first
person to take it and use it in this way

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Speaker 1: for a subscription business, right?
Um.

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Speaker 6: What's also cool is you do it all by
yourself.

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Speaker 1: [laughs] Yeah.

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Speaker 6: But, but at, uh, y- at least you're
doing it right now by design. Other companies

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Speaker 6: that are, uh, what did you say? Uh,
GraphicAudio? They have a huge

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Speaker 6: budget and lots of people working on
it. Why did you decide to work on this and do

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Speaker 6: all the recording and editing and
marketing and everything all by yourself?

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Speaker 1: First of all, yeah, GraphicAudio is
probably my closest competitor, right, in

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Speaker 1: format. And huge props to those
people. I love their productions. I think it is
so

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Speaker 1: cool. Like, I'm not trying to put
them down at all. I see really no competition

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Speaker 1: there. That's an illusion. Uh, but
yes, at face value, it looks like competition.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they have big teams, big
production, right? Compared to me, right? It's

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Speaker 1: all relative. Um, the reason I chose
to do it alone, and I've been at this for

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Speaker 1: eight months, everything except the
writing, right? I've been writing for 16 years,

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Speaker 1: uh, but not ever professionally. So
eight months on this skill set. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: do the narration, I do the sound
design, I do the directing, I do everything.

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Speaker 1: Everything which is not the voice
acting, uh, and the visual art and the music

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Speaker 1: composing. But even then, I went in
there and I did most of the music myself.

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Speaker 1: [laughs] And the reason I do all of
this myself is because I have plans to

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Speaker 1: eventually direct experts who are
gonna be better than I ever could be at any of

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Speaker 1: these skills, because it's the one
thing they focus on. I know that's where I'm

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Speaker 1: going, but I need to understand their
problems. I need to

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Speaker 1: understand how they think and what,
how they build their part of the story. Once I

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Speaker 1: become expert in each of these
pieces, right? Some of them I care about more
than

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Speaker 1: others, to be frank. [laughs] Those
are the ones I've outsourced already. But I just

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Speaker 1: know that if I can master these
skills to a sufficient degree, that when it
comes

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Speaker 1: time to tell them what I need from
them, I know how to get the best out of them. I

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Speaker 1: can direct this diverse team. I
believe fundamentally that to be the best
leader,

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Speaker 1: you have to understand every single
one of the people under you. You have to be able

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Speaker 1: to do their job. Doesn't mean you
have to be able to do it better than them- You

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Speaker 1: shouldn't, otherwise it's kind of
pointless, right? You could just do it yourself.
I

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Speaker 1: think that you need to understand
their problems, and that's what I'm doing. I'm

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Speaker 1: forcing myself to be in the thick of
it so that when it comes time to start

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Speaker 1: outsourcing sound design or mixing or
whatever I'm doing, not only do I know their

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Speaker 1: language, I know how to do their job.
So first of all, it's way easier to hire and

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Speaker 1: to-- you can never be BS'd by
somebody because you know how to do it. Uh, so
there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to know this from a
business perspective, but also I hate

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Speaker 1: not understanding things. We talk
about how I was mo-motivated by curiosity. I
hate

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Speaker 1: not understanding something and how
it works, especially a thing that I'm building,

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Speaker 1: right? I have to know how all the
pieces work. I don't need to be the best at it,

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Speaker 1: but that's how I feel. So I'm
learning how all the pieces work, I guess is the

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Speaker 1: fastest way to answer that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, you're
acquiring skills that will make you a better

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Speaker 6: leader and producer.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 6: You have a long-term vision for this.
With everybody I've interviewed so far, there

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Speaker 6: seems to be a pattern of pronouncing
your intentions almost as if the pronouncement,

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Speaker 6: it's a step that you can't skip.

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Speaker 1: That is exactly right. Plans are
pointless, but they are also essential. This
is-- I

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Speaker 1: think that there's a famous quote
here that I'm not quite hitting, but you

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Speaker 1: understand what I mean. There is
something intoxicating about saying eight ball,

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Speaker 1: corner pocket, and then lining up the
shot and then sinking it, right? It is the

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Speaker 1: intention to go somewhere that
matters. That clarity

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Speaker 1: resolves your entire path for you.
You know what to do from that point forward. The

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Speaker 1: point of the goal is not to be right
at the outset. Ten years from now, here's where

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be no matter what. That's
not important. It's actually not even important

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Speaker 1: that I reach that point, because
there's a ninety-nine percent chance I'm gonna
move

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Speaker 1: that goalpost to somewhere else for a
lot of good reasons, not just bad reasons.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, turns out that's actually
not what I wanted, or this wasn't the best way

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Speaker 1: to get there. The point of putting
that goal there is to give yourself

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Speaker 1: certainty. It is, it is critical to
motivation, is,

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Speaker 1: is the shortest way of saying that.
And there's something about

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Speaker 1: setting an ambitious goal and knowing
that you will reach it that is just so

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Speaker 1: intoxicating. It has a motivation of
its own. Um, and it, I think is an important

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Speaker 1: part of any plan. You can't simply do
it. You can't just sit down and go, "I could

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Speaker 1: have sat down and said, 'Eh, I'm
gonna make some audio stories. That sounds like

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Speaker 1: fun.'" Now, it's okay to start there
to see if you're excited about it, right?

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Speaker 1: That's actually the best place to
start. Don't start by saying, "I'm gonna conquer

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Speaker 1: the world with my audio stories. I'm
gonna take over the whole market. I'm gonna put

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Speaker 1: Audible out of business," right? You
can't start with that. That's insanity. But you

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Speaker 1: can start with, "Do I like this?" And
then once you realize you like it, and once

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Speaker 1: you realize this is a thing, I could
do something with this, that's when you set

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Speaker 1: your big, ambitious goal, right? And
that, that's the right time to do it, and

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Speaker 1: that's where I'm at. I have big,
ambitious goals. I've made them very clear, and

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Speaker 1: they are incredibly motivating.

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Speaker 6: And you've told other people about
them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's essential. I have
always wavered on should you tell people your

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Speaker 1: goals or not, and this is a common,
common mis-- uh, I guess a contentious topic.

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Speaker 1: It depends. For me, action is so
important.

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Speaker 1: It is much more important for people
to see me doing things and getting results than

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Speaker 1: it is for me to tell them. And I get
this gross feeling like, "I'm gonna do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be great," because it just
feels like empty promises. So the reason I like

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Speaker 1: to not tell people my goals is 'cause
I want them to see what I'm doing and be

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Speaker 1: shocked by it. Like, "What the heck
is this guy up to?" Like, "How is he

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Speaker 1: accomplishing all this," right? I
want that. But at the same time, you need to
tell

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Speaker 1: people, uh, because otherwise they
can't help you, but also because it reinforces

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Speaker 1: your own identity. Uh, once you've
made that part of your identity, like, you

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Speaker 1: can't not do it. Like, it is as if it
has almost happened. And once you get to that

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Speaker 1: level of self-confidence, you know
that you can say something, and you will either

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Speaker 1: make it real or break in the process.
Um, and then that's when your promises really

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Speaker 1: have power over you, is when you know
that, okay, I said I was gonna do it. I have a

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Speaker 1: at least reasonable path to get
there. I'm either gonna do it, or it's not
possible.

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Speaker 5: Sorry for the wait. It's a chore just
to get up at my age.

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Speaker 2: He turned and walked back into his
office, leaving the door open for Ethan to
follow

315
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Speaker 2: him.

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Speaker 5: I don't suppose you have that
problem, do you?

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00:23:08,326 --> 00:23:11,126
Speaker 2: Negative. Ethan winced at his own
words.

318
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Speaker 2: I mean, no, sir. Archbishop Gabriel
Klein collapsed into his large office chair

319
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Speaker 2: behind his desk and gave Ethan an
undisguised look of exhaustion.

320
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Speaker 5: Do you sleep?

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Speaker 2: Ethan moved into the room, ignoring
the fourteen yellow warning marks that flashed

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Speaker 2: around the room on his HUD, warning
him of potential dangers like hidden weapons or

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Speaker 2: secret entrances, never mind that
this was the office of his commander.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes. Not like I used to.

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Speaker 2: The Archbishop motioned for him to
have a seat. Ethan didn't know how to tell the

326
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Speaker 2: man that he didn't need to, that his
titanium joints experienced no strain from

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00:23:52,246 --> 00:23:57,106
Speaker 2: standing. That, and even if he did
feel discomfort, he could simply turn it off.

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Speaker 5: Please, sit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir. Ethan sat down without even
considering it. That unnerved him. Had he

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Speaker 2: chosen to sit? More importantly,
could he have chosen not to?

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Speaker 6: You're a member of a few
accountability groups.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

333
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Speaker 6: Why, and what are they, and what do
they do for you?

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Speaker 1: So the foreword to that is

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Speaker 1: If I look like I have it all figured
out, that is an illusion. It is an illusion

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Speaker 1: that anybody has it figured out,
right? The metaphor is that it's a puzzle that
can

337
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Speaker 1: never be solved. Nobody can have all
the pieces. It's not possible. What I mean

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Speaker 1: figured out, I mean have it all, like
no doubt as to what they're doing. No doubt

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Speaker 1: fundamental, even the thing I just
told you about the promise that I'm like, "I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna hit this huge ambitious goal."
Of course I have doubt about that. Of course I

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Speaker 1: have doubt about every single thing
I'm doing. Now, to varying degrees.

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00:24:57,614 --> 00:25:02,794
Speaker 1: Nobody has it all figured out. So
that's the, the preamble to this. Uh, the second

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Speaker 1: part is that I have a long, long
series of starting

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Speaker 1: and giving up on projects.

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Speaker 6: Oh, really?

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00:25:11,714 --> 00:25:13,694
Speaker 1: For the past, ooh, ooh,

347
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Speaker 1: forever. For the past forever. Uh, so
it's the same pattern over and over

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Speaker 1: again. Every few months, new
fascination, way into this, start to get
self-doubt,

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Speaker 1: right? Crash and burn. It's just
slow, slow anxiety creeping in. Can I do this?

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Speaker 1: Is this gonna work? Do I really want
to do this? That's the real kicker. Do I want

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Speaker 1: to do this anymore, right? It always
erodes it, and I move on to the next thing.

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Speaker 1: This time is different, and the
reason this time is different is that for the
first

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Speaker 1: time in my life, I'm not going it
alone on something very important to me, and
that

354
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Speaker 1: has made all the difference. So I am
in accountability groups. I'm in an

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Speaker 1: accountability group-

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Speaker 6: With me

357
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Speaker 1: ... I'm in... For creatives, yeah,
I'm in your accountability group.

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Speaker 6: We're in a couple cre- accountability
groups.

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Speaker 1: I'm in an account- a goal-setting and
accountability group on a weekly basis. I am

360
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Speaker 1: in a business accountability group. I
have a creativity coach. I have a productivity

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Speaker 1: coach. I have a health and wellness
doctor expert, right? I, I have a psychiatrist.

362
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Speaker 1: I have surrounded myself with so many
people that I cannot possibly

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Speaker 1: fail. In fact, I actually promised
myself yesterday I would remove the F-word from

364
00:26:30,374 --> 00:26:35,874
Speaker 1: my, uh, vocabulary, uh, because it's
not useful to me anymore. Uh, so I'm going to,

365
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop using it from this
point forward.

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Speaker 6: You and I are so much alike.

367
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Speaker 1: [laughs] I cannot stop now, and that
has made all the difference. And it sounds so

368
00:26:48,094 --> 00:26:52,974
Speaker 1: crazy, but I have always had this
feeling that if I didn't do it myself, it didn't

369
00:26:53,034 --> 00:26:53,374
Speaker 1: count.

370
00:26:54,194 --> 00:26:54,254
Speaker 6: Right.

371
00:26:54,294 --> 00:27:00,174
Speaker 1: Which is absurd. It was a complete
misconception. First of all, nobody

372
00:27:00,214 --> 00:27:01,174
Speaker 1: ever does anything alone.

373
00:27:01,234 --> 00:27:03,434
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, you are doing it
all yourself.

374
00:27:04,234 --> 00:27:06,314
Speaker 1: I'm doing the important parts, right?
I'm-

375
00:27:06,414 --> 00:27:11,334
Speaker 6: What you're getting help with is the
m- is the mental stuff. There are things that I

376
00:27:11,434 --> 00:27:15,914
Speaker 6: start and don't finish as well. Uh,
uh, more than I care to-

377
00:27:16,514 --> 00:27:16,874
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

378
00:27:16,874 --> 00:27:22,094
Speaker 6: ... admit. And I think, I wonder if
there's a connection between that and not

379
00:27:22,154 --> 00:27:27,854
Speaker 6: wanting, not going back and watching
TV shows again. Because once you get

380
00:27:27,954 --> 00:27:32,494
Speaker 6: into the grind, it's like, "Okay,
I've done this before. It's not new." Even
though

381
00:27:32,574 --> 00:27:37,574
Speaker 6: you, you might have a plan, a
long-term plan, when you get down to the daily,

382
00:27:38,774 --> 00:27:44,654
Speaker 6: it's like sometimes it's often the
same thing over and over. And I wonder if that's

383
00:27:44,714 --> 00:27:45,294
Speaker 6: connected.

384
00:27:46,054 --> 00:27:50,354
Speaker 1: So I've done a lot of soul searching
on this, obviously. This moment happened to me,

385
00:27:50,914 --> 00:27:56,014
Speaker 1: um, really early on in this process
for this goal, right? Why is this time

386
00:27:56,054 --> 00:28:01,894
Speaker 1: different? I had to ask myself that.
I have stopped dozens of times

387
00:28:01,994 --> 00:28:06,754
Speaker 1: on projects of this size. Why is this
one different? And I just had this moment

388
00:28:06,754 --> 00:28:12,534
Speaker 1: where I'm like, "I have the same
pattern over and over and over again." Um, so
part

389
00:28:12,574 --> 00:28:17,014
Speaker 1: of it is ADHD, right? That's
absolutely a part of it, and that's really just
the

390
00:28:17,094 --> 00:28:21,474
Speaker 1: same thing as normal human problems
with a couple of the dials turned up, right? To

391
00:28:21,534 --> 00:28:27,314
Speaker 1: varying degrees. One of those is
novelty seeking. That is the desire, again, part
of

392
00:28:27,334 --> 00:28:32,294
Speaker 1: why I'm motivated by curiosity, is
the desire for novelty, to see new things, to

393
00:28:32,394 --> 00:28:37,294
Speaker 1: see, think you understand something,
but instead get back a different result. The

394
00:28:37,354 --> 00:28:42,954
Speaker 1: unexpected, right? Seeking that out,
new experiences, more stimulation. So to some

395
00:28:42,994 --> 00:28:47,114
Speaker 1: extent, once I've gotten to a point
where I feel like I kinda get it, it makes sense

396
00:28:47,174 --> 00:28:50,914
Speaker 1: that motivation would start to waver,
and something else would start to look more

397
00:28:50,954 --> 00:28:54,914
Speaker 1: interesting. It's always replaced by
another project. So to some extent, it was

398
00:28:54,954 --> 00:28:59,634
Speaker 1: that. Some of it is when you're by
yourself, it is an echo chamber of your own

399
00:28:59,654 --> 00:29:03,954
Speaker 1: thoughts and doubts. All you have
coming back to you at some point is your own

400
00:29:04,014 --> 00:29:07,694
Speaker 1: anxiety, bouncing off the walls over
and over and over again until that's all you

401
00:29:07,714 --> 00:29:11,854
Speaker 1: can hear. It doesn't matter how much
you wanna do it anymore because you're just

402
00:29:11,914 --> 00:29:16,714
Speaker 1: crushed by your own doubt. There's
nobody to step in and say something, even if you

403
00:29:16,794 --> 00:29:22,154
Speaker 1: know it to be true. This isn't about
logic. It's about emotions. Even if you feel

404
00:29:22,254 --> 00:29:25,514
Speaker 1: logically you know that this is
possible, this thing you're trying to do,

405
00:29:27,094 --> 00:29:31,354
Speaker 1: but by then it's too late. You just
need somebody you care about who is at least a

406
00:29:31,414 --> 00:29:36,754
Speaker 1: little bit invested in your work to
say, "Oh, I think you can do this.

407
00:29:37,654 --> 00:29:40,694
Speaker 1: Oh, well why don't you try this
instead? Oh, I'm sorry you're feeling that way."

408
00:29:40,834 --> 00:29:46,754
Speaker 1: Even just to be heard is often
enough. Even just to speak to another person who
you

409
00:29:46,794 --> 00:29:51,654
Speaker 1: know sincerely wants the best for
you, who actually wants you to succeed. Even
that

410
00:29:51,694 --> 00:29:56,354
Speaker 1: is enough. So I'll never go it alone
again. It's the biggest change I've made, and

411
00:29:56,414 --> 00:30:00,954
Speaker 1: it has been a monumental change. So
I'm at eight months now, so significantly past

412
00:30:00,994 --> 00:30:03,914
Speaker 1: my usual [laughs] breaking point. Um,

413
00:30:05,494 --> 00:30:10,414
Speaker 1: and I am, if anything, more motivated
than ever. So yesterday I had a meeting with,

414
00:30:10,474 --> 00:30:13,894
Speaker 1: uh, two literary agents, right? So
part of my growth strategy is to pull on

415
00:30:13,954 --> 00:30:17,614
Speaker 1: established authors, borrow their
audience, and get them onto my subscriber

416
00:30:17,674 --> 00:30:23,174
Speaker 1: platform, right? It's not gonna work.
Flat out, right? That talking to those two

417
00:30:24,114 --> 00:30:27,754
Speaker 1: very incredible people, very
knowledgeable. If anybody would know whether
that would

418
00:30:27,794 --> 00:30:31,526
Speaker 1: work or not, it's these people. They
were rock stars, right? It's not gonna work.

419
00:30:32,006 --> 00:30:36,226
Speaker 1: Now, they did validate my core
premise, selling audio stories, immersive audio

420
00:30:36,306 --> 00:30:40,386
Speaker 1: stories to people on a subscription
does look like it has potential, right? Now,

421
00:30:40,426 --> 00:30:43,726
Speaker 1: whether I can execute on that is
totally separate, but the core thesis is intact.

422
00:30:44,206 --> 00:30:48,366
Speaker 1: The growth strategy I had is not
gonna work. It's just not gonna work for a lot
of

423
00:30:48,386 --> 00:30:54,006
Speaker 1: reasons I won't go into. It hurt.
That was the kind of event which would have

424
00:30:54,046 --> 00:30:58,126
Speaker 1: crippled me in the past. That's the
beginning of a downward spiral. But I have

425
00:30:58,126 --> 00:30:58,146
Speaker 1: surrounded-

426
00:30:58,146 --> 00:30:58,526
Speaker 6: Why did it hurt?

427
00:30:59,206 --> 00:30:59,326
Speaker 1: Hmm?

428
00:30:59,766 --> 00:31:00,486
Speaker 6: Why did it hurt?

429
00:31:01,566 --> 00:31:06,666
Speaker 1: It hurt because I had a theory about
how the world worked, and I had a path that

430
00:31:06,686 --> 00:31:10,866
Speaker 1: would get me there, that I had
invested a lot of time and emotion into, that I
had a

431
00:31:10,906 --> 00:31:14,846
Speaker 1: lot of m- mental momentum and
emotional momentum, like, "This is where I'm
going,"

432
00:31:14,926 --> 00:31:18,806
Speaker 1: right? You tell yourself, "This is
where I'm going," every day when you wake up,
and

433
00:31:18,826 --> 00:31:23,946
Speaker 1: you're excited about it, and then
somebody who you absolutely should believe tells

434
00:31:23,966 --> 00:31:27,206
Speaker 1: you it's not going to work for a lot
of very good reasons that actually make sense

435
00:31:27,246 --> 00:31:27,506
Speaker 1: to you.

436
00:31:29,106 --> 00:31:33,746
Speaker 1: You should take... The, the sane
thing to do is to tear it down, right? Some

437
00:31:33,806 --> 00:31:38,006
Speaker 1: progress is destructive. I told my
productivity coach this yesterday. Again,

438
00:31:38,126 --> 00:31:42,306
Speaker 1: surround yourself with people. Don't
go alone. I told my productivity coach this

439
00:31:42,326 --> 00:31:46,326
Speaker 1: yesterday, some progress is
destructive. And while I know that, the... it
would have

440
00:31:46,366 --> 00:31:50,746
Speaker 1: been completely foolish to keep going
down this path because it is not going to

441
00:31:50,786 --> 00:31:55,646
Speaker 1: work. Even if it did, it would work
so little for the amount of effort invested, it

442
00:31:55,706 --> 00:32:00,446
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. What makes sense
is to take all the pieces, build a new plan,

443
00:32:01,126 --> 00:32:06,466
Speaker 1: get a v- get invested in that new
plan, and try again. You know, that one might
work

444
00:32:06,506 --> 00:32:10,686
Speaker 1: a little bit, it might work a lot, it
might work not at all, and I have to tear it

445
00:32:10,706 --> 00:32:11,486
Speaker 1: down and make a new one.

446
00:32:13,286 --> 00:32:18,706
Speaker 1: That hurts, but it's not going to
stop me, and that was not true until

447
00:32:19,626 --> 00:32:25,546
Speaker 1: 32 years old. So... And the
difference is I have surrounded myself with

448
00:32:25,606 --> 00:32:30,986
Speaker 1: people who care whether it works to
some extent or another, and I can't let them

449
00:32:31,046 --> 00:32:36,246
Speaker 1: down. Uh, and they, all they do is
they just step in and they just tell me one

450
00:32:36,306 --> 00:32:42,106
Speaker 1: simple truth that I already know is
true. I know I, I could do this if I were a

451
00:32:42,146 --> 00:32:46,966
Speaker 1: robot that I could program. Robot
Steve would have no problem following the new

452
00:32:47,026 --> 00:32:52,086
Speaker 1: path, right? No emotions invested in
it at all. But I'm not that person, and even

453
00:32:52,146 --> 00:32:56,226
Speaker 1: hearing the truth come from a neutral
party, that's enough. Totally dispels the

454
00:32:56,266 --> 00:32:59,726
Speaker 1: anxiety. Like, "Okay, onto the next
thing. No big deal."

455
00:33:00,106 --> 00:33:00,626
Speaker 6: Awesome.

456
00:33:01,466 --> 00:33:01,686
Speaker 1: Yep.

457
00:33:01,786 --> 00:33:07,506
Speaker 6: Awesome. Well, just to be clear,
you're not talking about scrapping the

458
00:33:07,606 --> 00:33:10,046
Speaker 6: idea. You're talking about-

459
00:33:10,126 --> 00:33:10,127
Speaker 1: No

460
00:33:10,126 --> 00:33:12,966
Speaker 6: ... keeping the idea and just
changing your plan.

461
00:33:13,266 --> 00:33:17,806
Speaker 1: Exactly. This is all about my growth
strategy. How do you go from, you know,

462
00:33:18,486 --> 00:33:24,366
Speaker 1: whatever, a couple hundred, uh,
unpaying listeners to a couple thousand

463
00:33:24,586 --> 00:33:28,526
Speaker 1: paying listeners to a couple hundred
thousand paying listeners to a couple million

464
00:33:28,586 --> 00:33:34,206
Speaker 1: paying listeners, right? That
strategy, my initial foray, the, the shot I
took,

465
00:33:34,986 --> 00:33:40,706
Speaker 1: it missed. Like, oh, okay. [laughs]
So the right thing to do is to take a different

466
00:33:40,766 --> 00:33:45,926
Speaker 1: position and take another shot, uh,
which is what I'm going to do. Um, so no, the

467
00:33:46,006 --> 00:33:49,886
Speaker 1: core premise is exactly the same.
What I'm building, the goal is the same. The
goal

468
00:33:49,926 --> 00:33:54,566
Speaker 1: hasn't even changed, but the route to
the goal has fundamentally changed, and that's

469
00:33:54,626 --> 00:33:58,466
Speaker 1: okay. It hurts a little to have that
broken down and to have to start over again

470
00:33:58,486 --> 00:33:59,006
Speaker 1: with a new plan,

471
00:34:00,746 --> 00:34:02,686
Speaker 1: but that's just how it is. That is
this business.

472
00:34:02,706 --> 00:34:04,026
Speaker 6: What does that say about your
mindset?

473
00:34:04,126 --> 00:34:08,626
Speaker 1: [laughs] That I've grown a lot.
[laughs]

474
00:34:08,686 --> 00:34:08,786
Speaker 6: Yeah?

475
00:34:09,306 --> 00:34:14,286
Speaker 1: That the fact that something doesn't
work is not a reflection of me. It's got

476
00:34:14,306 --> 00:34:19,906
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. To the extent
that I have succeeded more is the more I am

477
00:34:20,006 --> 00:34:24,746
Speaker 1: a... is the amount, relative to the
amount I have pulled my ego out of what I'm

478
00:34:24,786 --> 00:34:30,526
Speaker 1: doing. What I'm doing is not mine.
It's just the way the world

479
00:34:30,586 --> 00:34:36,086
Speaker 1: works. It's a combination of e-
economics and human psychology and

480
00:34:36,166 --> 00:34:39,866
Speaker 1: fundamental rules of the universe
whether a business idea will work or not. You

481
00:34:39,906 --> 00:34:43,086
Speaker 1: could swap me out with another person
trying to do the same thing, and it should

482
00:34:43,146 --> 00:34:48,605
Speaker 1: work, right? It's not mine. It's not
me. Now, I have my own approach. I'm my own

483
00:34:48,665 --> 00:34:53,306
Speaker 1: person who brings my own skill set,
right? All of that changes it, for sure. But

484
00:34:53,326 --> 00:34:57,506
Speaker 1: there's nothing special about me that
makes this work. I am just... This is a, this

485
00:34:57,566 --> 00:35:02,986
Speaker 1: is just a dig. I'm just trying to
find something that is true and utilize it. Uh,
it

486
00:35:03,026 --> 00:35:06,006
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me as a
person. It's not a reflection of me if it
doesn't

487
00:35:06,046 --> 00:35:11,186
Speaker 1: work. It may be a reflection of my
skill set, where I am, whether I can make it
work

488
00:35:11,226 --> 00:35:16,266
Speaker 1: or not, but it's not a reflection of
me as a person, and I don't judge myself for it

489
00:35:16,306 --> 00:35:18,666
Speaker 1: anymore, and that has helped a lot.

490
00:35:22,366 --> 00:35:24,326
Speaker 6: Well, you seem to be learning a lot.

491
00:35:24,426 --> 00:35:26,366
Speaker 1: [laughs] Yeah. Always better, right?

492
00:35:26,666 --> 00:35:27,206
Speaker 6: Yeah, right.

493
00:35:27,866 --> 00:35:29,906
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this when you
asked earlier.

494
00:35:31,746 --> 00:35:36,306
Speaker 1: I've been at this for a long time
now, making stories, producing them into audio

495
00:35:36,426 --> 00:35:41,706
Speaker 1: stories, and the way I got better was
by,

496
00:35:43,046 --> 00:35:46,826
Speaker 1: I don't wanna say not caring about
the quality, but caring about the velocity and

497
00:35:46,866 --> 00:35:51,766
Speaker 1: not the position. To get into a
physics term, the position is totally irrelevant

498
00:35:52,346 --> 00:35:55,986
Speaker 1: except for the fact that I need it to
be at a certain position to be, to reach my

499
00:35:56,026 --> 00:35:57,646
Speaker 1: goals, right? That's the only reason
I care.

500
00:35:58,326 --> 00:35:58,506
Speaker 6: Sure.

501
00:35:58,766 --> 00:36:04,186
Speaker 1: When I say position, I mean a
quantitative measure of skill. Can I produce the
thing

502
00:36:04,266 --> 00:36:09,826
Speaker 1: I need to produce in whatever skill?
I have focused only on quantity

503
00:36:09,946 --> 00:36:15,886
Speaker 1: produced. How much can I make, and am
I improving? I

504
00:36:15,906 --> 00:36:21,486
Speaker 1: don't care how bad I am. I do not
care how bad I am at all. Am I improving? And I

505
00:36:21,566 --> 00:36:26,766
Speaker 1: fixated on that, and that made all
the difference. I stopped caring whether it was

506
00:36:26,806 --> 00:36:31,846
Speaker 1: bad right now, and I cared only about
is it getting better, am I making enough?

507
00:36:32,606 --> 00:36:38,446
Speaker 6: So you dropped your perfectionism in
order to reach new heights

508
00:36:38,606 --> 00:36:39,506
Speaker 6: as far as skill?

509
00:36:40,578 --> 00:36:44,958
Speaker 1: Yes, but perfectionism even is too
simple because it, perfectionism implies that I

510
00:36:44,978 --> 00:36:48,078
Speaker 1: think it could be perfect if I spend
enough time on it. I don't even believe that

511
00:36:48,118 --> 00:36:52,858
Speaker 1: anymore. I believe I have a, I have a
fixed ceiling on what I can produce with my

512
00:36:52,978 --> 00:36:56,978
Speaker 1: current skill level. Now, the skill
level can increase, which means the ceiling can

513
00:36:57,018 --> 00:37:02,458
Speaker 1: go up, but it does not make sense to
try and push the ceiling higher from where I

514
00:37:02,578 --> 00:37:07,178
Speaker 1: am. I need to practice to raise the
ceiling. It doesn't make sense to just

515
00:37:08,598 --> 00:37:13,118
Speaker 1: work, bash myself against this
project over and over and over again because
that is

516
00:37:13,158 --> 00:37:19,038
Speaker 1: not going to improve me. What I need
to do is get it out into the world, learn from

517
00:37:19,098 --> 00:37:23,658
Speaker 1: it, get feedback, whether that's my
own feedback or somebody else's, learn from it,

518
00:37:23,758 --> 00:37:27,398
Speaker 1: and take that into the next project,
and then make that one better. Because now my

519
00:37:27,458 --> 00:37:31,258
Speaker 1: ceiling is higher, what is the point
of spending 10 times longer on this thing when

520
00:37:31,278 --> 00:37:34,658
Speaker 1: I'm hitting against the same ceiling,
when I could just raise the ceiling? So I have

521
00:37:34,698 --> 00:37:39,638
Speaker 1: fixated on raising the ceiling of
what I can produce rather than trying to make it

522
00:37:39,678 --> 00:37:44,858
Speaker 1: the best it can possibly be. Because
I have seen more gains faster,

523
00:37:44,978 --> 00:37:49,578
Speaker 1: paradoxically, by caring about the
quality of the work. Like, I am trying to push

524
00:37:49,618 --> 00:37:53,298
Speaker 1: myself, but the moment I feel like I
start hitting that skill ceiling, I'm getting

525
00:37:53,338 --> 00:37:56,658
Speaker 1: diminishing returns. Like, yeah,
okay, I could spend 10 more hours on this sound

526
00:37:56,678 --> 00:38:01,318
Speaker 1: effect to get it perfect, but am I
going to learn from that? Or will I learn from

527
00:38:01,358 --> 00:38:05,218
Speaker 1: making 100 more sound effects like it
in that amount of time? The answer is

528
00:38:05,278 --> 00:38:10,078
Speaker 1: obviously the second one, and I have
grown so much faster because of it.

529
00:38:11,238 --> 00:38:17,238
Speaker 6: So what you're interested in is
seeing a progress growth as far as skills.
You're

530
00:38:17,278 --> 00:38:21,858
Speaker 6: comparing yourself, your current
self, against your skill level last week or last

531
00:38:21,918 --> 00:38:24,978
Speaker 6: month, and as long as the graph is
up, then-

532
00:38:24,998 --> 00:38:25,298
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

533
00:38:25,298 --> 00:38:26,658
Speaker 6: ... that's your goal.

534
00:38:26,938 --> 00:38:32,918
Speaker 1: Yeah. I fundamentally value myself as
a human being for whether I am on the path.

535
00:38:32,998 --> 00:38:36,118
Speaker 1: It's a concept I came up with, like,
I don't know how many years ago, seven or eight

536
00:38:36,138 --> 00:38:41,538
Speaker 1: years ago in a journal. The path
being a line that moves up and to the right. If
I

537
00:38:41,598 --> 00:38:46,498
Speaker 1: am improving as a person, and you
kinda know whether you're improving or not,

538
00:38:46,578 --> 00:38:51,078
Speaker 1: whether you've gone horizontal or
down, you know pretty quickly whether you feel

539
00:38:51,118 --> 00:38:56,038
Speaker 1: like you've ha- made progress lately.
If I am making progress, I am satisfied with

540
00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:59,818
Speaker 1: myself as a person. Now, I try to
crank the knobs on that progress to try and

541
00:38:59,858 --> 00:39:05,278
Speaker 1: improve as much as possible, but I
don't value myself for how fast that goes. I

542
00:39:05,338 --> 00:39:10,538
Speaker 1: value myself for am I sincerely
trying to improve myself? If yes, and I am
growing

543
00:39:10,578 --> 00:39:16,498
Speaker 1: as a person in some way, we're good.
That's all I ask of myself in life. Am I

544
00:39:16,558 --> 00:39:22,338
Speaker 1: improving? Even a little bit, even a
tiny, tiny, tiny bit, it counts. I call that

545
00:39:22,358 --> 00:39:26,758
Speaker 1: being on the path. You're either off
the path or on the path, and when you decide,

546
00:39:26,818 --> 00:39:30,698
Speaker 1: when you realize you're off the path,
all you have to do is say, "Okay, I'm back on

547
00:39:30,738 --> 00:39:34,438
Speaker 1: the path now. I'm gonna go improve
myself again." Because sometimes you don't want

548
00:39:34,478 --> 00:39:35,838
Speaker 1: to improve because it hurts.

549
00:39:36,938 --> 00:39:41,878
Speaker 6: That's cool. Um, I call it forward
movement. It helps me sometimes to create a

550
00:39:41,918 --> 00:39:46,778
Speaker 6: phrase like that. Forward movement
is, I call it that because it's meaningful for

551
00:39:46,818 --> 00:39:46,958
Speaker 6: me.

552
00:39:47,078 --> 00:39:47,079
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

553
00:39:47,098 --> 00:39:51,358
Speaker 6: But if it's not meaningful for
somebody else, then they can find their own
phrase-

554
00:39:51,378 --> 00:39:52,138
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, make your own thing

555
00:39:52,158 --> 00:39:52,438
Speaker 6: ... and make it, yeah

556
00:39:52,458 --> 00:39:56,278
Speaker 1: But that's like the ultimate gut
check. When everything is crazy, everything is

557
00:39:56,318 --> 00:40:00,498
Speaker 1: going wrong, nothing seems to be
going my way, am I on the path?

558
00:40:00,798 --> 00:40:00,858
Speaker 6: Yeah.

559
00:40:00,898 --> 00:40:05,398
Speaker 1: Yes or no. It's binary. If yes, I'm
doing the right thing. It literally does not

560
00:40:05,438 --> 00:40:09,198
Speaker 1: matter what I'm doing or whether it
works or not because I'm doing the right thing.

561
00:40:09,558 --> 00:40:13,218
Speaker 1: If no, that's the only way I could be
doing the wrong thing. I could be making a

562
00:40:13,238 --> 00:40:17,038
Speaker 1: billion dollars a year and not being
improving myself, and I'm doing the wrong

563
00:40:17,118 --> 00:40:17,878
Speaker 1: thing. That's how I feel.

564
00:40:17,878 --> 00:40:22,238
Speaker 6: And you don't mean in a narcissistic
way. You mean in a healthy way.

565
00:40:22,538 --> 00:40:26,858
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, but because to
improve myself in a narcissistic way would not
be

566
00:40:26,898 --> 00:40:32,058
Speaker 1: improvement. So it would be, because
that's not what I value. That's not who I want

567
00:40:32,098 --> 00:40:36,038
Speaker 1: to be, and I would not consider that
improvement. I would consider that an illusion,

568
00:40:36,598 --> 00:40:38,758
Speaker 1: and that would be false, and I would
not be improving.

569
00:40:48,078 --> 00:40:49,718
Speaker 3: You, you, you let it out?

570
00:40:50,438 --> 00:40:54,158
Speaker 2: He only has access to 30% of the
designed weapon systems.

571
00:40:54,858 --> 00:40:59,478
Speaker 3: It's an abomination. Who knows what
the Japanese hid in that tech?

572
00:41:00,357 --> 00:41:05,958
Speaker 2: Gabriel ignored both lines of
argument. This wasn't about public safety or
blasphemy

573
00:41:06,038 --> 00:41:10,538
Speaker 2: or espionage. What would the now
deceased Japanese research team hide anyway?

574
00:41:11,218 --> 00:41:15,478
Speaker 2: Professor Saitama had been honorable
and faithful to their shared cause until the

575
00:41:15,538 --> 00:41:20,538
Speaker 2: very end. Gabriel felt that it was
sometimes better to let a friend stab you in the

576
00:41:20,598 --> 00:41:26,478
Speaker 2: back, to fully trust some people, and
simply hope for the best. Lucius

577
00:41:26,538 --> 00:41:28,158
Speaker 2: was not one of those people.

578
00:41:33,038 --> 00:41:37,998
Speaker 6: You're talking about improving your
skills. What specific skills are you talking

579
00:41:38,058 --> 00:41:39,698
Speaker 6: about for Collected Stories?

580
00:41:40,858 --> 00:41:46,858
Speaker 1: So I have them listed. Um, I'm
maniacal about this. Uh, I have become that. I
don't

581
00:41:46,958 --> 00:41:51,518
Speaker 1: start this way. I feel like I really
need to hone in on that point. I did not start

582
00:41:51,578 --> 00:41:57,478
Speaker 1: this way. I decided to become this
way, and it didn't happen overnight. It happened

583
00:41:57,578 --> 00:42:03,438
Speaker 1: in fits and spurts, and it was slow
and winding. That's how I got here. I have a

584
00:42:03,498 --> 00:42:07,898
Speaker 1: list of the skills I want to master
and to what level I want to get to them in. I

585
00:42:07,938 --> 00:42:11,198
Speaker 1: have a list of the things I need to
get good at and then immediately get rid of

586
00:42:11,258 --> 00:42:14,838
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be good at
them. I have an order in which I want to get rid

587
00:42:14,878 --> 00:42:19,718
Speaker 1: of the skills. So in short, they are
narration. I need to get roughly to an 8 out of

588
00:42:19,778 --> 00:42:22,798
Speaker 1: 10, a 10 being world-class. Uh, so an
8 is very-

589
00:42:22,838 --> 00:42:23,898
Speaker 6: You mean your performance?

590
00:42:24,278 --> 00:42:28,978
Speaker 1: Yes. So 8 being very good because
that is what I need to beli- that is what I

591
00:42:29,018 --> 00:42:32,918
Speaker 1: believe I need to be at to
convincingly sell stories, right? That doesn't
mean I'm

592
00:42:32,978 --> 00:42:37,578
Speaker 1: always gonna be the narrator. That is
good enough to me. Writing, roughly 8 or 9 out

593
00:42:37,598 --> 00:42:41,498
Speaker 1: of 10. You see a common trend here.
Sound design, because that's right at the point

594
00:42:41,538 --> 00:42:46,698
Speaker 1: of diminishing returns. The
difference between an 8 and a 10, most people
will never

595
00:42:46,738 --> 00:42:48,978
Speaker 1: notice. Only the, the biggest-

596
00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:53,848
Speaker 1: Only the people who truly understand
the craft will know the difference at that

597
00:42:53,868 --> 00:42:57,348
Speaker 1: level. It's such fine-grained
details. You can hit the high notes. You, you're
gonna

598
00:42:57,388 --> 00:43:01,948
Speaker 1: get 90% of the results. Yes, the best
in the world will be able to outdo you, and

599
00:43:02,008 --> 00:43:05,848
Speaker 1: yes, some people will notice on a
subconscious level what is truly master class
and

600
00:43:05,888 --> 00:43:06,288
Speaker 1: what isn't.

601
00:43:07,828 --> 00:43:11,968
Speaker 1: But you just need to get to a point
where you can sell. I say you, as in me, because

602
00:43:12,008 --> 00:43:15,948
Speaker 1: this is... It all comes back to where
my goals come from. I know what I need to do,

603
00:43:16,248 --> 00:43:20,908
Speaker 1: and from that, all other choices
become clear. Now that I know what I need to do,

604
00:43:21,508 --> 00:43:25,328
Speaker 1: what skills do I need to get there? I
literally wrote them all out. Okay, now which

605
00:43:25,388 --> 00:43:29,688
Speaker 1: ones do I actually want to be good
at? And so I very quickly crossed out the ones I

606
00:43:29,708 --> 00:43:32,448
Speaker 1: didn't wanna do. I don't wanna be an
actor. I don't wanna be an actor. It doesn't

607
00:43:32,468 --> 00:43:36,508
Speaker 1: motivate me. I don't care about that.
And ultimately, I don't wanna be the editor. I

608
00:43:36,528 --> 00:43:39,568
Speaker 1: don't wanna do the mixing. Uh,
there's a lot of things I don't wanna be great
at,

609
00:43:39,668 --> 00:43:43,208
Speaker 1: but there are things I do want to be
great at, even if I do eventually outsource

610
00:43:43,228 --> 00:43:48,048
Speaker 1: them. And primarily because I love
it, and because I love it, I know I will be
great

611
00:43:48,108 --> 00:43:49,828
Speaker 1: at it if I continue to put in the
time.

612
00:43:49,948 --> 00:43:51,588
Speaker 6: What are those things that you wanna
be great at?

613
00:43:51,948 --> 00:43:55,147
Speaker 1: Uh, sound design, narration, writing.

614
00:43:56,868 --> 00:43:59,608
Speaker 1: There are some that I want to be good
at, and there's a lot of those.

615
00:43:59,988 --> 00:44:01,988
Speaker 6: What are some things you wanna be
good at?

616
00:44:02,908 --> 00:44:05,968
Speaker 1: Mixing, editing, directing.

617
00:44:07,508 --> 00:44:13,008
Speaker 1: Um, I need to be slightly better at
drawing. I need to be good enough at music

618
00:44:13,508 --> 00:44:17,668
Speaker 1: composing, uh, and production in
order to be able to guide the people under me,
and

619
00:44:17,708 --> 00:44:22,368
Speaker 1: to be able to talk what they talk,
uh, in an intelligent way to get the best out of

620
00:44:22,428 --> 00:44:25,908
Speaker 1: them. So those are all... I need to
be able to do everything on the team, for the

621
00:44:25,948 --> 00:44:30,888
Speaker 1: most part, uh, to at least an
adequate degree. But the three things I'm going
to be

622
00:44:30,948 --> 00:44:36,448
Speaker 1: great at are narration, writing,
sound design. Now, narration of those three is
the

623
00:44:36,508 --> 00:44:41,248
Speaker 1: one I care the least about. And that
may sound bizarre, but I, I believe that the

624
00:44:41,288 --> 00:44:44,748
Speaker 1: writing is the most important. If
that foundation is not good, nothing else
matters.

625
00:44:45,308 --> 00:44:49,388
Speaker 1: Fantas- fantastic sound design and
acting on top of crappy writing, literally
nobody

626
00:44:49,428 --> 00:44:54,408
Speaker 1: gonna care, right? Sound design is
right after that. It's so important to the

627
00:44:54,468 --> 00:44:59,748
Speaker 1: immersion of the story. Narration, as
long as I am convincing, I care

628
00:45:00,088 --> 00:45:04,628
Speaker 1: less about the perfectionism there.
It just has to be good enough that you don't

629
00:45:04,688 --> 00:45:09,288
Speaker 1: notice me. I want to fall into the
background to the point where the narrator

630
00:45:09,328 --> 00:45:09,988
Speaker 1: becomes

631
00:45:11,648 --> 00:45:15,828
Speaker 1: immersive, essentially, to the point
where I'm just telling you what is happening

632
00:45:15,888 --> 00:45:19,728
Speaker 1: and you don't hear my voice anymore.
You just see the story that is unfolding in

633
00:45:19,768 --> 00:45:23,408
Speaker 1: your imagination. That's the point I
need to get to. I don't need to get to the

634
00:45:23,448 --> 00:45:27,148
Speaker 1: point where you're like, "Wow, this
guy's a great narrator." I don't care about

635
00:45:27,208 --> 00:45:31,788
Speaker 1: that. I just need to get to the point
where I fall away. You don't notice what I'm

636
00:45:31,848 --> 00:45:35,088
Speaker 1: saying anymore. Like, "Eh, that
sounded weird," or, "That sounded stupid," or,
"That

637
00:45:35,108 --> 00:45:40,348
Speaker 1: was bad acting." Once I get past that
point, it's good enough, right? The writing

638
00:45:40,368 --> 00:45:41,888
Speaker 1: and sound design needs to be a little
bit higher.

639
00:45:43,328 --> 00:45:49,208
Speaker 6: Well, the stories are really great,
and you a- actually, you have rules for your

640
00:45:49,288 --> 00:45:49,888
Speaker 6: stories, right?

641
00:45:50,008 --> 00:45:50,128
Speaker 1: I do.

642
00:45:50,148 --> 00:45:55,368
Speaker 6: Even though they're, they're
multi-part stories, right? They're like four,
five, or

643
00:45:55,448 --> 00:46:01,088
Speaker 6: six, or 12 parts, but that's it. And
then there's another story, and then there's

644
00:46:01,148 --> 00:46:01,808
Speaker 6: another story.

645
00:46:02,208 --> 00:46:02,508
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

646
00:46:02,928 --> 00:46:06,688
Speaker 6: But, but you said you wrote down
rules for your world-

647
00:46:06,748 --> 00:46:07,548
Speaker 1: Yeah, and-

648
00:46:07,548 --> 00:46:10,848
Speaker 6: ... that all of the stories have to,
uh, live by.

649
00:46:11,328 --> 00:46:17,088
Speaker 1: Yes, I do have rules. So I have a
theory as to what makes a satisfying story in
this

650
00:46:17,148 --> 00:46:21,988
Speaker 1: format, and this is why I'm... One of
the reasons I'm so excited beyond just the

651
00:46:22,028 --> 00:46:24,788
Speaker 1: format. Okay, so it's immersive audio
story. It's cool. Yeah, whatever, right?

652
00:46:25,368 --> 00:46:28,668
Speaker 1: Anyone can do it, right? There's not
that much bar of a competition. Anyone can

653
00:46:28,788 --> 00:46:31,628
Speaker 1: learn how to do the sound design and
the voice acting and all that, and the

654
00:46:31,668 --> 00:46:35,008
Speaker 1: directing. They can put it together,
right? This isn't rocket science. People can

655
00:46:35,068 --> 00:46:38,648
Speaker 1: figure this out, and they have
figured out in the past. So what makes me
special

656
00:46:38,688 --> 00:46:42,628
Speaker 1: then, right? What do I have over
Graphic Audio or any of these Audible originals
or

657
00:46:42,688 --> 00:46:47,288
Speaker 1: audio dramas that are coming out? And
I think that there are layers on top of this

658
00:46:47,828 --> 00:46:52,828
Speaker 1: that in time are going to make the
difference. At first, I need to make the core

659
00:46:52,868 --> 00:46:58,828
Speaker 1: product good, right? The stories.
Beyond that, I have a, a set of codified rules

660
00:46:58,868 --> 00:47:03,628
Speaker 1: for what I think every story I make
and every story that I involve other people in,

661
00:47:03,908 --> 00:47:08,008
Speaker 1: these are the rules they need to play
by. I have a very strict rule book as to what

662
00:47:08,048 --> 00:47:11,448
Speaker 1: makes a good story in this format,
because this format is more than just immersive

663
00:47:11,527 --> 00:47:15,508
Speaker 1: audio. It has a set of rules too. So
some of them are things like, just to make it

664
00:47:15,548 --> 00:47:20,068
Speaker 1: concrete, have characters that are
flawed but not stupid, are self-aware and

665
00:47:20,108 --> 00:47:24,308
Speaker 1: motivated enough to not frustrate the
reader. And that sounds simple, but how many

666
00:47:24,368 --> 00:47:27,448
Speaker 1: books and how many times have you
been frustrated by a character that has an own

667
00:47:27,508 --> 00:47:32,028
Speaker 1: goal, right? It's a typical romance
plot where they both misunderstand something,

668
00:47:32,068 --> 00:47:35,328
Speaker 1: and then they go off, and it's
totally contrived. You know, like, this is so
stupid.

669
00:47:35,408 --> 00:47:38,448
Speaker 1: If they would literally have a
one-minute conversation, they could resolve this
in a

670
00:47:38,508 --> 00:47:42,608
Speaker 1: second. Nah, I'm not doing that. If
they have pro- Now, that doesn't mean that two

671
00:47:42,648 --> 00:47:46,408
Speaker 1: people can't come to, in conflict
with each other. They will. But if they do, it's

672
00:47:46,448 --> 00:47:50,908
Speaker 1: for reasons that make sense to you.
In fact, that is because the next rule is most

673
00:47:50,948 --> 00:47:56,648
Speaker 1: conflict comes from hard choices,
opposing but plausible worldviews or

674
00:47:56,728 --> 00:48:01,568
Speaker 1: forces of nature, not own goals or
deus ex machina. All right, so it's these kinds

675
00:48:01,628 --> 00:48:04,008
Speaker 1: of rules, and I've got a lot of them.
Um-

676
00:48:04,048 --> 00:48:06,028
Speaker 6: Did you make them up yourself or...?

677
00:48:06,288 --> 00:48:10,208
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but the, everything is
derived from something else. But yes. Uh, but

678
00:48:10,308 --> 00:48:14,788
Speaker 1: yes, these are rules that I, I have
codified, and every story I write will follow

679
00:48:14,828 --> 00:48:15,888
Speaker 1: these rules to the T.

680
00:48:16,328 --> 00:48:20,648
Speaker 6: Why? Why do you have rules that all
your stories have to adhere to?

681
00:48:21,408 --> 00:48:26,448
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it is, and it's...
This kind of structure seems imposing. Like,

682
00:48:26,548 --> 00:48:30,448
Speaker 1: okay, great, so anyone I ask has to
follow all this huge list of rules? Like, that's

683
00:48:30,488 --> 00:48:34,768
Speaker 1: kind of ridiculous. But I have
learned more and more that the structure sets
you

684
00:48:34,828 --> 00:48:39,828
Speaker 1: free. Because the very last rule is,
and everything else is pure potential.

685
00:48:40,608 --> 00:48:46,328
Speaker 1: Because human beings, the way our
brains work, we do horrible in a vacuum.

686
00:48:47,688 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: Limitless possibility is the worst
possible thing you could do to creativity. It

687
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:56,420
Speaker 1: sounds insane to say that, but the
moment you start adding structure, if you give

688
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,180
Speaker 1: somebody a blank canvas and like a
marker and you say, make something wonderful,

689
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,100
Speaker 1: they're going to be like, I don't
know what to do. But if they're like, you have
to

690
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: do this, this, this, and this, you
can only use these colors. You can only use
these

691
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:12,460
Speaker 1: shapes. Now watch them go and they'll
just go right into the task. It's crazy. Too

692
00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: much ambiguity is bad. So all of
these rules pin you in. Now they pin you in in
such

693
00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:21,660
Speaker 1: a way that anything inside these
bounds, inside these boundaries is going to be a

694
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: good story, right? And there's so
much space left here for potential. It doesn't

695
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: even matter. There's infinite stories
still within this space to get mathematical.

696
00:49:31,860 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 6: Well, there are only eight notes on
the piano.

697
00:49:35,060 --> 00:49:40,100
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Yeah, you're right. That's
a great point. Exactly like that. The structure

698
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: sets you free. So I'm pinning you
into a specific kind of structure.

699
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,820
Speaker 1: And I think that something else that
I'm excited about is how can I make that even

700
00:49:49,860 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: cooler? How can I make this not like
a top-down thing where I'm hitting people over

701
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,460
Speaker 1: the head with, oh, you forgot rule
number seven here?

702
00:49:58,140 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: And the way I did that is that part
of my story world, my story world, which is

703
00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:08,420
Speaker 1: going to be our story world, is a
community-driven multiverse, which I've called
the

704
00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:12,940
Speaker 1: Eternium. And this is a very fancy
way of saying that if you make a story on our

705
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: platform, it isn't just a story. It's
a story world. And that world is an

706
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,100
Speaker 1: actual place in the canon. All of
these stories are in the world. So as long as it

707
00:50:23,140 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: meets these bars, as long as it
passes all these rules in some editorial
process,

708
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:33,020
Speaker 1: right? That's TBD. It's canon. Your
story world lives next to mine.

709
00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:38,780
Speaker 1: And while they have some method of
interacting, and we won't get into that, because

710
00:50:38,820 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: they follow all the rules, they fit
into our world. Furthermore, there is like a

711
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: pantheon of gods above all of this.
And those are the creatures, the intelligent,

712
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,540
Speaker 1: sometimes malevolent forces that are
enforcing all these rules. The reason that only

713
00:50:54,580 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: these worlds can exist in this
multiverse is because every single one of these
rules

714
00:50:58,940 --> 00:51:04,820
Speaker 1: is personified by some, you know,
sometimes malevolent deity who wants this

715
00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:10,780
Speaker 1: thing, right? There's the revealers,
one of the main gods, like goddesses. She

716
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:16,700
Speaker 1: wants basically to reveal secrets.
And that motivation causes you to have stories

717
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: which feed the reader mysteries, but
slowly unveil them, right? You don't have, and

718
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:26,020
Speaker 1: this is to prevent you from doing
things like loose threads, loose plot lines,

719
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: having no mystery, right? I'm just
codifying what is already a common story

720
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:36,380
Speaker 1: trope. You hint at something weird,
like you tease some readers with some mystery,

721
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:41,180
Speaker 1: and then later you pay them off,
right? You pay back that debt. All I'm doing is

722
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,340
Speaker 1: taking that rule and I'm making even
the rules themselves part of the story world.

723
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:50,580
Speaker 1: So, you know, that part's an
experiment. We'll see if it works. But I feel
like that

724
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,860
Speaker 1: turns something which would be
annoying to anybody working with me into
something,

725
00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: okay, cool. Now I can use this. Now
these rules are actual characters and these

726
00:51:59,860 --> 00:52:05,260
Speaker 1: characters come into conflict with
each other. And I can use that in my story. That

727
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: gets me excited.

728
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,300
Speaker 5: Good evening, Francesca.

729
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:13,540
Speaker 5: Something on my face?

730
00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:19,380
Speaker 5: No, sir. I'm just about to sit down
to dinner. Come on in.

731
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: She hesitated at the doorway. Was
that an invitation or a dismissal?

732
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,060
Speaker 5: Seriously, come in. It's okay to let
your hair down.

733
00:52:29,940 --> 00:52:35,460
Speaker 1: Fran moved to see if her hood was
still up. Yes, it was. Should she let her hair

734
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: down? Why was that important? The
archbishop shook his head and smiled warmly at

735
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:46,380
Speaker 1: her. So she took that as an
invitation and closed the door behind her. She
stopped

736
00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: trying to read the man's expression
and got right down to business, where she was

737
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,300
Speaker 1: most comfortable.

738
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 5: I found another file in Saitama's
data dump. You're gonna wanna see this.

739
00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 1: She walked over to where Gabriel sat
at his desk and set her tablet down in front of

740
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: him. Fran swiped through the
blueprints, stopping on the artist's impression
of the

741
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:13,099
Speaker 1: final product, which was incredibly
dramatic. Gabriel stopped chewing, his eyes

742
00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: opened wide.

743
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:20,180
Speaker 5: How would we even build something
like that? We can't. It's as tall as a building.

744
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 5: It looks like it's straight out of an
anime.

745
00:53:24,620 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: Fran nodded enthusiastically. They
had maybe 10% of the materials needed to

746
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: construct it. Not that they would
even try. It would be an egregious waste of

747
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: resources. There was a reason tanks
didn't have legs. It was simply impractical.

748
00:53:39,740 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: Gabriel scratched his chin
thoughtfully.

749
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 5: Maybe we could make a smaller one.

750
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:49,260
Speaker 6: Tell me about Mortal Steel.

751
00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:53,860
Speaker 1: So that is the show I'm currently
airing, right? This is the first full season. So

752
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,460
Speaker 1: for seven-ish months, all I did was
write, produce stories for the Monopause

753
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: podcast feed. Like I said, I was
obsessed with quantity and progress. That's all

754
00:54:05,100 --> 00:54:08,900
Speaker 1: that was. So my theory there, I had a
second goal. My theory was

755
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:16,420
Speaker 1: I am building a backlog of content.
Like I'm building the first two episodes of long

756
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:22,420
Speaker 1: form stories so that when I launch
this thing, I'm not just going, can I write a
new

757
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:27,180
Speaker 1: story? Can I keep them excited? Like
I have this huge catalog of potential, right?

758
00:54:27,420 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to have to rework all
of them, right? They're not ready. Mortal Steel

759
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,380
Speaker 1: was just one of the 12 stories that I
released. So I basically, when I was ready to

760
00:54:35,420 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: launch the first season, I'm like,
okay, I'll pick from these 12 stories. Which one

761
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: of these has the most potential? Not
even that. For the very first one, I said to

762
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 1: myself, which one will teach me the
most? Which one am I the most excited about?

763
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:51,820
Speaker 1: Forget what anyone else wants. What
am I the most excited about? Because if I'm

764
00:54:51,860 --> 00:54:56,704
Speaker 1: excited about it, it's going to come
through in my work. If I don't care, even if

765
00:54:56,724 --> 00:55:00,124
Speaker 1: it's the best story I think to launch
with from a business perspective, or even for

766
00:55:00,164 --> 00:55:05,504
Speaker 1: reader interest, I knew that if I
loved it, it would be the best one.

767
00:55:06,284 --> 00:55:10,324
Speaker 1: Uh, which is kind of
counterintuitive. So Mortal Steel was that one.
Uh, it's based

768
00:55:10,364 --> 00:55:15,544
Speaker 1: on a short story I wrote a long time
ago. It is a story, the tagline is, "Pastor

769
00:55:15,644 --> 00:55:19,884
Speaker 1: Ethan Cutter, cyborg and ordained
priest, has come to bring a little faith and

770
00:55:19,964 --> 00:55:24,684
Speaker 1: justice to old Los Angeles. The ruins
of old Los Angeles." And that's the tagline.

771
00:55:25,484 --> 00:55:29,884
Speaker 1: So you kinda get it. It's been
described as campy, and I don't pretend that
it's the

772
00:55:29,924 --> 00:55:33,064
Speaker 1: best thing ever. It's n- again, it's
not about that. You already know what I value

773
00:55:33,104 --> 00:55:38,844
Speaker 1: myself for. I value myself for making
things as fast as possible and improving.

774
00:55:39,424 --> 00:55:40,304
Speaker 3: It's not campy.

775
00:55:40,884 --> 00:55:41,444
Speaker 1: Okay. [laughs]

776
00:55:41,464 --> 00:55:42,624
Speaker 3: It's cool. Okay?

777
00:55:43,264 --> 00:55:44,464
Speaker 1: It all depends on your perspective.

778
00:55:44,524 --> 00:55:46,784
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, nothing is for
everybody.

779
00:55:47,104 --> 00:55:52,544
Speaker 1: Right. If you, if you think Die Hard
is stupid, this is not for you. If you think

780
00:55:52,584 --> 00:55:57,264
Speaker 1: Die Hard is awesome, this is for you,
right? That's it. Like, I knew my audience,

781
00:55:57,364 --> 00:56:01,564
Speaker 1: right? And that's what it is. If you
think action movies are dumb, then this isn't

782
00:56:01,604 --> 00:56:05,024
Speaker 1: for you. It's not just an action
movie. I mean, it has real characters and real

783
00:56:05,064 --> 00:56:10,224
Speaker 1: things are happening, and I treat it
with... I give it both a head nod to I know

784
00:56:10,284 --> 00:56:15,024
Speaker 1: this is dumb, but it's also cool.
And, but also, like, hey, there's a real story

785
00:56:15,064 --> 00:56:19,584
Speaker 1: here too. Uh, because, you know, you
have to actually care about the characters. Um,

786
00:56:20,384 --> 00:56:25,884
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's the story. Um, I,
what I'm most excited about is not my story or

787
00:56:25,924 --> 00:56:29,524
Speaker 1: what I wrote, it's the people who
brought it to life. So there's a team of 10
voice

788
00:56:29,624 --> 00:56:34,964
Speaker 1: actors. They're incredible. Uh, they
really are, and these people are essentially

789
00:56:35,024 --> 00:56:38,704
Speaker 1: volunteers, right? You know, they
were paid a pittance more or less, and the
promise

790
00:56:38,784 --> 00:56:41,464
Speaker 1: of, "Ah, I promise there will be more
stories [laughs] in the future. We're gonna

791
00:56:41,504 --> 00:56:46,164
Speaker 1: make money eventually." Right? They
were paid mostly on promises. Um, and they

792
00:56:46,224 --> 00:56:51,584
Speaker 1: killed it. They really did. Um, it is
incredible what you can get out of people who

793
00:56:51,624 --> 00:56:55,544
Speaker 1: are motivated to help you with your
cause. Not even because it's your cause. It has

794
00:56:55,684 --> 00:57:01,104
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. They are
motivated to work on something cool, and that is

795
00:57:01,124 --> 00:57:06,784
Speaker 1: what I focused on for this
production, is how can I make this seem so cool
that

796
00:57:06,864 --> 00:57:11,184
Speaker 1: people would be dying to be a part of
it? And that's what I did, and that's what

797
00:57:11,244 --> 00:57:13,144
Speaker 1: worked. It had nothing to do with me.

798
00:57:13,644 --> 00:57:16,324
Speaker 3: What was it like working with voice
actors for the first time?

799
00:57:16,784 --> 00:57:22,424
Speaker 1: It was initially terrifying. Uh, it
is an entirely different skill set, learning how

800
00:57:22,444 --> 00:57:24,544
Speaker 1: to direct people in a way that is
both

801
00:57:26,324 --> 00:57:29,804
Speaker 1: constructive. So all you theater
people out here, you already get it. Like, you

802
00:57:29,824 --> 00:57:33,744
Speaker 1: don't need... [laughs] You're not
learning anything. Uh, but in a way that makes
the

803
00:57:33,784 --> 00:57:38,784
Speaker 1: performance better, and what your
story needs most importantly. Better is like,
you

804
00:57:38,824 --> 00:57:43,884
Speaker 1: know, what does that mean? It fit...
I tell every voice actor now at this point,

805
00:57:44,144 --> 00:57:49,064
Speaker 1: there is a range for this character.
There is a, a range of space where your

806
00:57:49,104 --> 00:57:53,904
Speaker 1: performance makes sense narratively.
Now, there's a lot of points in that space. You

807
00:57:53,924 --> 00:57:56,624
Speaker 1: can lean on this part of the
character, you can lean on that part of the
character.

808
00:57:56,664 --> 00:58:00,224
Speaker 1: You can come up with your own thing.
That's fine, too. There's spaces I did not

809
00:58:00,284 --> 00:58:05,944
Speaker 1: imagine for this character to behave.
But it needs to fit within the narrative space

810
00:58:05,984 --> 00:58:09,544
Speaker 1: of this character. There are ways to
perform this character that are completely

811
00:58:09,604 --> 00:58:15,144
Speaker 1: contrary to what is necessate-
necessary for the plot and for the story and for

812
00:58:15,164 --> 00:58:19,984
Speaker 1: their interactions with other
characters. So you have to be in that space. It
is my

813
00:58:20,044 --> 00:58:24,564
Speaker 1: job to get you into that space,
right? And to get the best out of you, right?
Uh,

814
00:58:24,704 --> 00:58:29,864
Speaker 1: there are better points in that space
as well. My job is to make it so that you fit

815
00:58:29,924 --> 00:58:34,784
Speaker 1: the character, your voice fits the
character. Beyond that, the rest is your art.
I'm

816
00:58:34,804 --> 00:58:38,904
Speaker 1: not gonna micromanage you. I'm not
gonna tell you how to do anything. Beyond, it

817
00:58:38,964 --> 00:58:42,964
Speaker 1: needs to fit the story. And if it
fits the story in a totally unexpected way, and
by

818
00:58:43,004 --> 00:58:48,464
Speaker 1: the way, it, multiple, even the main
character, is totally unlike what I expected.

819
00:58:48,524 --> 00:58:53,944
Speaker 1: Totally unlike how I wrote him. But
it's awesome. And that's what matters. It's

820
00:58:54,044 --> 00:59:00,004
Speaker 1: awesome. I didn't say, "You need to
sound like this. You need to do this." In fact,

821
00:59:00,104 --> 00:59:04,144
Speaker 1: all I did is I always say, "Hit me
with your intuition first. I don't wanna tell
you

822
00:59:04,164 --> 00:59:07,844
Speaker 1: what it is. Let me tell you who they
are, who they... where this character comes

823
00:59:07,864 --> 00:59:11,224
Speaker 1: from, their purpose in the story,
because you need to know what my end goal for
the

824
00:59:11,264 --> 00:59:16,383
Speaker 1: character is. As long as you get
there, the rest is your art. I do not care." So

825
00:59:16,424 --> 00:59:21,544
Speaker 1: that's my directing style now. I was
absolutely terrified [laughs] and I probably

826
00:59:21,584 --> 00:59:26,044
Speaker 1: made a lot of stupid decisions early
on, where I was unwilling to push them into

827
00:59:26,084 --> 00:59:31,644
Speaker 1: that space because I was, uh, not
confident yet in my ability to do that, right?

828
00:59:31,744 --> 00:59:35,024
Speaker 1: Because they know so much more about
me, about this than me. They're actors, right?

829
00:59:35,624 --> 00:59:39,144
Speaker 1: Uh, some of them are new, some of
them are not new. They know what they're doing.

830
00:59:39,624 --> 00:59:43,504
Speaker 1: And I w- this is, debut director. I
do not know what I was doing. But when I showed

831
00:59:43,584 --> 00:59:48,784
Speaker 1: up, and I got this advice from you,
Tony. When I showed up, I opened with, "I have

832
00:59:48,884 --> 00:59:54,384
Speaker 1: no idea what I am doing. Please give
me feedback. That said, here's what I need you

833
00:59:54,424 --> 00:59:59,704
Speaker 1: to do." [laughs] Right? I, I just
flat out... I opened with, "I'm not pretending
to

834
00:59:59,724 --> 01:00:04,484
Speaker 1: be an expert here, so if I'm doing
something dumb, tell me. Otherwise, this is what

835
01:00:04,584 --> 01:00:09,804
Speaker 1: I need." Uh, and I think that made
all the difference, and they were totally
willing

836
01:00:10,384 --> 01:00:16,044
Speaker 1: to correct me or to insist, um, and
it made a big difference. We were teammates

837
01:00:16,104 --> 01:00:17,344
Speaker 1: instead of a top-down thing.

838
01:00:17,764 --> 01:00:18,044
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

839
01:00:18,184 --> 01:00:20,584
Speaker 1: So now it's old hat, and now I can do
it no problem.

840
01:00:21,884 --> 01:00:24,184
Speaker 3: Awesome. How did the mechanics of it
work, though?

841
01:00:24,904 --> 01:00:25,684
Speaker 1: So for the recording?

842
01:00:26,364 --> 01:00:27,804
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um-

843
01:00:28,364 --> 01:00:28,404
Speaker 1: Yeah

844
01:00:28,404 --> 01:00:31,844
Speaker 3: ... did you get all the actors all in
the same room, or did, you know?

845
01:00:32,224 --> 01:00:37,784
Speaker 1: So I'm very open about this. Uh, the
cost of producing Mortal Steel was $1,400,

846
01:00:38,364 --> 01:00:41,724
Speaker 1: uh, approximately, right? Plus or
minus some plugins and other software I'm

847
01:00:41,764 --> 01:00:42,104
Speaker 1: forgetting.

848
01:00:42,184 --> 01:00:42,784
Speaker 3: Not bad.

849
01:00:43,124 --> 01:00:43,184
Speaker 1: Uh-

850
01:00:43,244 --> 01:00:44,404
Speaker 3: How, how many episodes?

851
01:00:45,124 --> 01:00:45,484
Speaker 1: 12.

852
01:00:45,984 --> 01:00:46,184
Speaker 3: Okay.

853
01:00:46,384 --> 01:00:47,284
Speaker 1: 25-minute episodes-

854
01:00:47,344 --> 01:00:47,384
Speaker 3: Not bad

855
01:00:47,424 --> 01:00:50,944
Speaker 1: ... with, you know, full design,
sound design, music. Now, obviously I'm doing
all

856
01:00:50,984 --> 01:00:56,924
Speaker 1: the post-production myself beyond the
art and the, the music. But- Still,

857
01:00:57,424 --> 01:01:01,124
Speaker 1: 1,400 bucks ain't too shabby, and I
know the next one, I know it could be cheaper

858
01:01:01,164 --> 01:01:02,424
Speaker 1: too. I know how to make it cheaper.

859
01:01:02,824 --> 01:01:02,924
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

860
01:01:02,964 --> 01:01:03,624
Speaker 1: I'm not going to.

861
01:01:04,304 --> 01:01:06,324
Speaker 6: But how did the actual mechanics of
the-

862
01:01:06,564 --> 01:01:06,964
Speaker 1: So the recording-

863
01:01:06,964 --> 01:01:08,504
Speaker 6: ... uh, working with the actors go?

864
01:01:08,684 --> 01:01:13,844
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is related. So we are
recording asynchronously. What happens is I
deliver

865
01:01:13,884 --> 01:01:18,304
Speaker 1: the script, right? So I format the
script. I give them the exact lines. They have a

866
01:01:18,424 --> 01:01:21,704
Speaker 1: spreadsheet of all their lines, first
of all, that's totally separate, just so they

867
01:01:21,744 --> 01:01:26,744
Speaker 1: don't miss them. All the lines are
individually labeled with numbers, IDs, in the

868
01:01:26,784 --> 01:01:30,224
Speaker 1: order of appearance. Their character
names are associated with them. So their job,

869
01:01:30,924 --> 01:01:35,304
Speaker 1: say you have 12 lines in episode one,
right? So we record it in four episode blocks

870
01:01:35,344 --> 01:01:40,344
Speaker 1: at a time. All right, due date is
next Wednesday. I want your four episodes worth
of

871
01:01:40,404 --> 01:01:45,124
Speaker 1: lines back in this Google Drive. So
here's your folder. Here's, here's all the

872
01:01:45,144 --> 01:01:48,224
Speaker 1: information about how you need to
record and what the sound format is and all
this.

873
01:01:49,144 --> 01:01:53,284
Speaker 1: Here are the numbers of your lines
and the line associated with it in
parentheticals

874
01:01:53,384 --> 01:01:58,644
Speaker 1: if it matters, right? You go off and
do it, right? And you have the instruction that

875
01:01:58,744 --> 01:02:03,364
Speaker 1: if you are in dialogue with another
character, you listen to the dialogue line

876
01:02:03,424 --> 01:02:08,324
Speaker 1: before yours if your, if their line
is already in. If their line is not in, you get

877
01:02:08,344 --> 01:02:12,104
Speaker 1: to set the pace for the dia- for the
conversation, right? You record all your lines

878
01:02:12,184 --> 01:02:16,264
Speaker 1: as if there were a phantom there
talking to you, and then they listen to yours to

879
01:02:16,324 --> 01:02:21,404
Speaker 1: make it flow. And it is shocking how
good it is. Now, there are times when it comes

880
01:02:21,444 --> 01:02:21,804
Speaker 1: off kind of flat.

881
01:02:21,864 --> 01:02:24,764
Speaker 6: Oh, so you gave the recording... So
if two people are in conversation-

882
01:02:24,964 --> 01:02:25,184
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

883
01:02:25,184 --> 01:02:30,864
Speaker 6: ... person number one records their
lines with gaps for c- for the other person's

884
01:02:30,904 --> 01:02:35,804
Speaker 6: dialogue, and then you give that
whole recording to the second actor?

885
01:02:35,964 --> 01:02:36,204
Speaker 1: No, no, no.

886
01:02:36,204 --> 01:02:37,604
Speaker 6: And the second actor responds to it?

887
01:02:37,604 --> 01:02:41,204
Speaker 1: Even better than that. That's not
streamlined enough. So what happens is they are

888
01:02:41,244 --> 01:02:47,044
Speaker 1: responsible for chopping up their own
clips. So one underscore 137 is this line.

889
01:02:47,604 --> 01:02:53,544
Speaker 1: I want that clip, one underscore
137.wav, in my folder by this due date. And

890
01:02:53,664 --> 01:02:57,644
Speaker 1: I have all of these individual Lego
pieces that I can move around to change the

891
01:02:57,684 --> 01:03:02,944
Speaker 1: timing of the dialogue. It's not one
track. I asked, I ha- made an e- extra ask. You

892
01:03:03,004 --> 01:03:08,264
Speaker 1: chop it up for me and organize it so
that I can just assemble the pieces later. Uh,

893
01:03:08,384 --> 01:03:12,104
Speaker 1: it's even better than that. Um, so
yeah, they listen to the other dialogue clips

894
01:03:12,164 --> 01:03:15,804
Speaker 1: before them so that if you pressed
play, going all the way down, you would hear the

895
01:03:15,864 --> 01:03:21,144
Speaker 1: episode, minus narration. So the
whole show was recorded with 11 people talking
to

896
01:03:21,164 --> 01:03:25,024
Speaker 1: themselves in a closet, you know, or
wherever their recording space is. No person

897
01:03:25,084 --> 01:03:26,164
Speaker 1: talks to themselves live.

898
01:03:26,264 --> 01:03:28,124
Speaker 6: Wow, so they were never in the same
room.

899
01:03:28,404 --> 01:03:34,004
Speaker 1: Nope. Not once did we ever talk
together. And I mean, I challenge you to listen
to

900
01:03:34,044 --> 01:03:38,324
Speaker 1: it and see if you can tell. There are
some times when it falls a little flat. It's,

901
01:03:38,584 --> 01:03:40,924
Speaker 1: you know, comes with the territory.
But that kept costs down.

902
01:03:41,264 --> 01:03:42,624
Speaker 6: No, I thought it was great, you know?

903
01:03:42,684 --> 01:03:46,484
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it works. Uh, and it's very
important because it kept, from a business

904
01:03:46,544 --> 01:03:49,824
Speaker 1: perspective, 'cause it keeps costs
down. All of these people have day jobs, you

905
01:03:49,864 --> 01:03:53,964
Speaker 1: know. They work in bars. They work
retail. They work customer support. And some of

906
01:03:54,004 --> 01:03:59,584
Speaker 1: them work overtime, right? They're
busy, right? This is their passion. So

907
01:04:00,244 --> 01:04:03,844
Speaker 1: when they're coming home at 11:00 and
they have to get their voice lines in, the

908
01:04:03,924 --> 01:04:09,324
Speaker 1: last thing you want to tell them is,
"Hey, you have to be here at this time for two

909
01:04:09,424 --> 01:04:14,204
Speaker 1: hours to record the two lines that
you have in this episode." It's an ask too much.

910
01:04:14,664 --> 01:04:18,404
Speaker 1: Right? I could do it, but then I
would also need to pay them thousands of
dollars,

911
01:04:18,764 --> 01:04:21,904
Speaker 1: because it's no longer a passion
thing. It's like a, you know, they're ma-
they're

912
01:04:21,944 --> 01:04:26,544
Speaker 1: here for a job. Um, which is fine,
and I want to get to that point where I can do

913
01:04:26,624 --> 01:04:31,324
Speaker 1: that. But when you're starting small
and cheap, you have to get creative about

914
01:04:31,404 --> 01:04:35,184
Speaker 1: solving the problems to get the cost
down. So for reference, and I think I told you

915
01:04:35,224 --> 01:04:39,464
Speaker 1: this, Tony, I read an article
recently that described how to make an audio
fiction

916
01:04:39,504 --> 01:04:45,384
Speaker 1: podcast. And part of it, the last
third, is talking about budget. And so they

917
01:04:45,444 --> 01:04:48,684
Speaker 1: go through this whole step-by-step
about how they produced their own show and what

918
01:04:48,704 --> 01:04:54,104
Speaker 1: they did. Their budget, actual co-
dollars spent, was $75,000.

919
01:04:54,804 --> 01:04:59,384
Speaker 1: And they told you it could not be
done for less than 50. And it c- should have
taken

920
01:04:59,444 --> 01:05:04,924
Speaker 1: them $125,000, but they were so proud
of themselves for saving money. And it

921
01:05:04,984 --> 01:05:09,224
Speaker 1: blew my mind. Now, I've listened to
their show, and not to throw shade on other

922
01:05:09,284 --> 01:05:13,784
Speaker 1: artists, it's not about that. This is
about the business of what they're doing. For

923
01:05:13,824 --> 01:05:19,624
Speaker 1: the output they got, just objectively
speaking, it was worse than where I am now.

924
01:05:20,584 --> 01:05:25,264
Speaker 1: And that's, it's sad. It's, it's not
a good thing. This is not like, "Oh yeah, I'm

925
01:05:25,304 --> 01:05:29,724
Speaker 1: flexing on you. I figured something
out." This is sad because it deters other people

926
01:05:29,764 --> 01:05:35,404
Speaker 1: from thinking they can make
incredible things on a budget. And you can solve
so much

927
01:05:35,504 --> 01:05:40,644
Speaker 1: if you are willing to get creative
and approach a problem with a solution mindset

928
01:05:40,724 --> 01:05:45,524
Speaker 1: instead of giving up and paying
people to solve it for you. You do not need an

929
01:05:45,604 --> 01:05:51,104
Speaker 1: expert for everything. You can be
that expert in short order. It's been, what,
eight

930
01:05:51,164 --> 01:05:55,884
Speaker 1: months? And I mean, it's at least
convincing, right? I don't sound like a master
in

931
01:05:55,944 --> 01:06:00,864
Speaker 1: any of the things I'm doing, but I
sound good enough to sell, or nearly so.

932
01:06:02,064 --> 01:06:03,084
Speaker 1: And isn't that the bar?

933
01:06:03,184 --> 01:06:03,224
Speaker 6: And you're learning.

934
01:06:03,224 --> 01:06:04,664
Speaker 1: If that's not the bar, I don't know
what is.

935
01:06:05,424 --> 01:06:09,444
Speaker 6: And you're learning. You're striving
to get better, but you understand getting

936
01:06:09,484 --> 01:06:10,484
Speaker 6: better is a process.

937
01:06:10,724 --> 01:06:15,084
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't start ready, and you
don't need to start with $100,000 to make

938
01:06:15,124 --> 01:06:20,544
Speaker 1: something incredible. Just start
doing it, and you will learn very quickly
whether

939
01:06:20,604 --> 01:06:26,544
Speaker 1: you need a real expert or not. And
for almost everything, you do not. And

940
01:06:26,584 --> 01:06:30,084
Speaker 1: when you do, at least you will walk
into it knowing, like, okay, yeah, the experts

941
01:06:30,124 --> 01:06:34,684
Speaker 1: really are worth the money on this
one. Like, uh, yep, for sure. Like the guitar

942
01:06:34,784 --> 01:06:38,624
Speaker 1: player I got for the intro and outro,
I'm not gonna learn how to play guitar. I'm

943
01:06:38,644 --> 01:06:42,464
Speaker 1: not gonna learn how to shred. Like
[laughs] it's not worth it. I paid him $200 on

944
01:06:42,564 --> 01:06:48,264
Speaker 1: Fiverr, and he was happy to do it for
me in two days, right? They spent $3,500 on

945
01:06:48,284 --> 01:06:51,244
Speaker 1: their composing and producing, 'cause
they hired a professional composer and

946
01:06:51,284 --> 01:06:55,304
Speaker 1: producer who was set up to charge
that much. They did totally custom work. They

947
01:06:55,324 --> 01:06:58,784
Speaker 1: didn't give them the freedom. They
went top-down on everything. "This is exactly

948
01:06:58,804 --> 01:07:02,904
Speaker 1: what I need." They went through a ton
of takes. I trusted an expert to give me

949
01:07:02,944 --> 01:07:07,796
Speaker 1: something good on their timeline. So
by being way less needy about what I got in the

950
01:07:07,876 --> 01:07:12,116
Speaker 1: end, "Give me something good. I don't
care what it is. This is roughly what I want.

951
01:07:13,056 --> 01:07:16,796
Speaker 1: Give it to me. Let's see what you can
do." And for 200 bucks, this guy was able to

952
01:07:16,836 --> 01:07:19,836
Speaker 1: do it, no problem, in his free time.
Probably took, took him a couple hours. He was

953
01:07:19,876 --> 01:07:23,136
Speaker 1: happy. I was happy. Nobody got hurt
in the exchange.

954
01:07:23,796 --> 01:07:24,776
Speaker 6: Hmm. I like that.

955
01:07:24,956 --> 01:07:24,957
Speaker 1: Yes.

956
01:07:24,976 --> 01:07:30,316
Speaker 6: Because he's the one composing the
music, you wanted him to be moved by the story.
I

957
01:07:30,356 --> 01:07:34,116
Speaker 6: will tell you that I charge a lot
more than that to do a show.

958
01:07:34,116 --> 01:07:34,136
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

959
01:07:34,136 --> 01:07:34,796
Speaker 6: You know?

960
01:07:34,816 --> 01:07:36,536
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm not disparaging-

961
01:07:36,556 --> 01:07:37,556
Speaker 6: There's nothing wrong with that

962
01:07:37,596 --> 01:07:38,536
Speaker 1: ... paying professionals.

963
01:07:38,776 --> 01:07:41,896
Speaker 6: But, yeah, you're talking about the
level that you're at right now and your goals.

964
01:07:42,176 --> 01:07:42,436
Speaker 1: Yeah.

965
01:07:42,556 --> 01:07:48,356
Speaker 6: Um, I used to, when my daughter was
growing up, I used to tell her, "Don't worry so

966
01:07:48,396 --> 01:07:52,796
Speaker 6: much about school." That's not to say
school isn't important, but it's to say you

967
01:07:52,856 --> 01:07:55,836
Speaker 6: don't go to school because you
already know the stuff.

968
01:07:55,856 --> 01:07:56,036
Speaker 1: Yeah.

969
01:07:56,216 --> 01:08:01,916
Speaker 6: You're there to learn what you don't
know, and that's kind of beautiful to me. Your

970
01:08:01,976 --> 01:08:05,876
Speaker 6: goal was to produce these things
because you're going to school.

971
01:08:06,096 --> 01:08:06,176
Speaker 1: Yeah.

972
01:08:06,236 --> 01:08:09,776
Speaker 6: You are teaching yourself how to be a
great producer.

973
01:08:10,056 --> 01:08:10,316
Speaker 1: Exactly.

974
01:08:10,336 --> 01:08:15,776
Speaker 6: You know, and one of the reasons, uh,
one great reason why I really wanted to talk

975
01:08:15,836 --> 01:08:21,496
Speaker 6: to you about your process and all of
this is because if you think of the arch

976
01:08:22,296 --> 01:08:27,636
Speaker 6: of... No, not, not an arc because an
arc implies an up and a down. Let's say a

977
01:08:27,736 --> 01:08:33,676
Speaker 6: curve. There's a tipping point in
that curve. After the tipping point, there are

978
01:08:33,736 --> 01:08:39,636
Speaker 6: people after the tipping point, Josh
Whedon, um, Aaron

979
01:08:39,776 --> 01:08:43,876
Speaker 6: Sorkin, you know, uh, big Broadway
theaters.

980
01:08:44,116 --> 01:08:44,316
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

981
01:08:44,456 --> 01:08:50,076
Speaker 6: You are just before the curve. You
are going around that curve-

982
01:08:50,216 --> 01:08:50,536
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

983
01:08:50,536 --> 01:08:56,336
Speaker 6: ... and I caught you just before the
curve, and the story where you're at right now

984
01:08:56,416 --> 01:09:02,296
Speaker 6: is extremely intriguing because there
are other people who are in the same

985
01:09:02,336 --> 01:09:07,076
Speaker 6: place as you, just before the tipping
point, just before the curve-

986
01:09:07,396 --> 01:09:07,456
Speaker 1: Yeah

987
01:09:07,456 --> 01:09:08,156
Speaker 6: ... and they give up.

988
01:09:08,436 --> 01:09:11,476
Speaker 1: "Can I do this? Can I do this? Can I
do this?" And then the wheels fall off.

989
01:09:11,476 --> 01:09:12,856
Speaker 1: [laughs]

990
01:09:12,916 --> 01:09:16,856
Speaker 6: Yeah, and instead of... But it, but
here's the thing. Here's the difference, and

991
01:09:16,896 --> 01:09:21,556
Speaker 6: here's what I love about you. If the
wheels fall off, like you said about the

992
01:09:21,616 --> 01:09:22,916
Speaker 6: literary agents-

993
01:09:23,276 --> 01:09:23,696
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

994
01:09:23,716 --> 01:09:28,476
Speaker 6: ... the, the people you spoke to, the
difference is when the wheels fall off, you

995
01:09:29,016 --> 01:09:33,836
Speaker 6: say, "Okay, why did they fall off?
Let me learn from that and put it back... Let me

996
01:09:33,876 --> 01:09:36,076
Speaker 6: figure out how to put the wheels back
on." And maybe the wheels-

997
01:09:36,116 --> 01:09:36,136
Speaker 1: Yeah

998
01:09:36,136 --> 01:09:37,756
Speaker 6: ... don't come on exactly the same
way.

999
01:09:37,776 --> 01:09:37,777
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes

1000
01:09:37,776 --> 01:09:40,296
Speaker 6: ... maybe you have to take a
different path, right?

1001
01:09:40,336 --> 01:09:41,036
Speaker 1: You're exactly right.

1002
01:09:41,056 --> 01:09:42,316
Speaker 6: And that's the difference.

1003
01:09:42,956 --> 01:09:47,916
Speaker 1: It can all be distilled down to this
one reaction. When you get punched in the face,

1004
01:09:48,896 --> 01:09:53,756
Speaker 1: do you fall down and think to
yourself, "I'm never gonna do that again. That
hurt,"

1005
01:09:54,296 --> 01:09:58,616
Speaker 1: or do you think, "I need to get
better at avoiding getting punched in the face"?

1006
01:09:58,656 --> 01:09:59,836
Speaker 6: [laughs]

1007
01:09:59,896 --> 01:10:03,396
Speaker 1: Like, that is it. Everything... Now,
there's a lot of ways to change a reaction. We

1008
01:10:03,436 --> 01:10:06,996
Speaker 1: talked about all that, surrounding
yourself with people who can get you back up and

1009
01:10:07,056 --> 01:10:11,196
Speaker 1: get you better at dodging punches,
right? But the, all of it is in a solution

1010
01:10:11,256 --> 01:10:16,696
Speaker 1: mindset. When I get hurt, do I think,
"I'm gonna do less of that. That hurt," or do

1011
01:10:16,736 --> 01:10:22,056
Speaker 1: you think, "I can do this. I just
need to figure out how to not get hurt again.

1012
01:10:22,436 --> 01:10:26,236
Speaker 1: Let's get better." Like, how do I get
around this obstacle? And you have... And this

1013
01:10:26,296 --> 01:10:30,016
Speaker 1: isn't something that just happens to
you, flip a switch one time and you're done. A

1014
01:10:30,076 --> 01:10:34,396
Speaker 1: solution mindset is something you
will continually, continually, continually have
to

1015
01:10:34,436 --> 01:10:40,396
Speaker 1: pound into yourself. When you get
hit, you have to be thinking, "How do I get
around

1016
01:10:40,456 --> 01:10:44,756
Speaker 1: this next time?" And it is very hard
because your initial reaction, especially if

1017
01:10:44,776 --> 01:10:48,456
Speaker 1: this is new to you, is to think, "I
never wanna do this again. I just got told no on

1018
01:10:48,496 --> 01:10:53,256
Speaker 1: that pitch. Well, screw that. I'm
done with this." You may not say it in as many

1019
01:10:53,316 --> 01:10:57,276
Speaker 1: words. You may just think, "I don't
wanna do this anymore. That felt bad. Let's do

1020
01:10:57,296 --> 01:10:58,136
Speaker 1: something else instead."

1021
01:10:58,756 --> 01:10:58,916
Speaker 6: Cool.

1022
01:10:58,916 --> 01:11:03,416
Speaker 1: But instead, you think, "Well, that
hurt. There's probably something to learn here."

1023
01:11:03,456 --> 01:11:07,116
Speaker 1: And even if you're not ready to hear
that right away, the next day when you wake up,

1024
01:11:07,156 --> 01:11:12,296
Speaker 1: you think, "Okay, what did I learn?
How can I move forward?" It doesn't feel good.

1025
01:11:12,596 --> 01:11:18,056
Speaker 1: It never feels good to get punched,
but [laughs] if you can continually improve,

1026
01:11:19,096 --> 01:11:22,376
Speaker 1: it'll happen less and less and to the
point where you don't even feel it anymore.

1027
01:11:22,436 --> 01:11:27,036
Speaker 1: You know what's crazy, Tony? What's
really crazy is one day you start waking up

1028
01:11:27,075 --> 01:11:30,376
Speaker 1: hoping you get punched because it
means you're learning something.

1029
01:11:31,096 --> 01:11:31,116
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

1030
01:11:31,156 --> 01:11:35,156
Speaker 1: It means every time you do, you start
craving it. You s- That's when you know,

1031
01:11:35,436 --> 01:11:39,796
Speaker 1: "Yeah, I'm gonna make it." And I
haven't made it over the bend yet. I'm close,
but I

1032
01:11:39,876 --> 01:11:45,276
Speaker 1: feel like when you start craving the
knowledge, when you start wondering how you're

1033
01:11:45,296 --> 01:11:49,716
Speaker 1: wrong and actively seeking out, "I
bet I'm wrong about this. I bet I'm wrong about

1034
01:11:49,756 --> 01:11:53,136
Speaker 1: this. How can I find out if I'm wrong
about this?" Now, you might not be, and you

1035
01:11:53,176 --> 01:11:56,236
Speaker 1: might be right, and for once you're
like, "Yay, I did it right. On to the next

1036
01:11:56,276 --> 01:12:01,176
Speaker 1: thing." But if you're wrong, like I
was yesterday, I sought that out because I

1037
01:12:01,296 --> 01:12:07,216
Speaker 1: craved it. I wanted to know how I was
going to fail, and I knew that when you

1038
01:12:07,316 --> 01:12:13,276
Speaker 1: start wanting to know how you're bad,
you're w- not only willing to hear criticism,

1039
01:12:13,376 --> 01:12:18,116
Speaker 1: but you, you desire it because you
want to succeed so much more than you want to
not

1040
01:12:18,156 --> 01:12:22,456
Speaker 1: get punched in the face. When that,
that scale tips, I feel like that's when you

1041
01:12:22,496 --> 01:12:26,196
Speaker 1: make it. Uh, we'll see, right?
[laughs]

1042
01:12:26,216 --> 01:12:26,736
Speaker 6: Hmm. Yeah. We'll see.

1043
01:12:26,776 --> 01:12:30,276
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking from the top of a
mountain. I'm speaking hopefully from the way
up.

1044
01:12:30,916 --> 01:12:35,616
Speaker 6: Now, getting back to the way you, the
mechanics of the way you recorded it.

1045
01:12:36,036 --> 01:12:36,076
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

1046
01:12:36,136 --> 01:12:41,936
Speaker 6: As a sound designer, I know that if
you have all those little snippets, those clips

1047
01:12:42,536 --> 01:12:47,876
Speaker 6: of actors' lines, putting all that
together is a nightmare.

1048
01:12:48,196 --> 01:12:48,316
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

1049
01:12:48,416 --> 01:12:50,436
Speaker 6: Uh, even if it's only 20 minutes.

1050
01:12:50,676 --> 01:12:50,776
Speaker 1: Hmm.

1051
01:12:50,876 --> 01:12:55,016
Speaker 6: Are you gonna do it that way again,
or, or what did you learn from that experience?

1052
01:12:55,736 --> 01:13:01,716
Speaker 1: I knew that I had to do it. I knew
that it was important to take

1053
01:13:03,116 --> 01:13:08,964
Speaker 1: a wrong step, even if it was
inefficient. And a bad decision. I knew I

1054
01:13:09,024 --> 01:13:13,284
Speaker 1: needed to take action. I knew I
needed voice actors. I knew I needed their
clips.

1055
01:13:13,904 --> 01:13:17,084
Speaker 1: And this was the only way I could
think of, of getting it on a reasonable
timeframe

1056
01:13:17,124 --> 01:13:21,584
Speaker 1: in a way that let me accomplish all
my other goals. So ultimately, I had to do it

1057
01:13:22,304 --> 01:13:26,104
Speaker 1: because I knew that it was o- I was
gonna learn from it. I was gonna figure out

1058
01:13:26,144 --> 01:13:31,084
Speaker 1: whether this worked. Either it
doesn't work, and I have to go do the hard way
of

1059
01:13:31,284 --> 01:13:35,264
Speaker 1: scheduling everybody, getting them in
the same room, whether virtual or not. All

1060
01:13:35,304 --> 01:13:40,124
Speaker 1: right? It gets a lot harder. I knew
that I was more likely to fail

1061
01:13:41,364 --> 01:13:46,464
Speaker 1: by mulling on whether this was the
right choice or not. I was more likely to fail

1062
01:13:46,504 --> 01:13:50,784
Speaker 1: because I did not take action, and I
overthought it, and I gave up, and I did

1063
01:13:50,824 --> 01:13:56,564
Speaker 1: something else, than I was to fail if
I did it wrong and it was hard work, uh,

1064
01:13:56,844 --> 01:14:00,424
Speaker 1: in order to make it work again. So
the short answer is it took about six hours the

1065
01:14:00,464 --> 01:14:05,224
Speaker 1: first time. I measure every single
step of my production, um, just to get more

1066
01:14:05,264 --> 01:14:08,324
Speaker 1: efficient. So the first time it took
about six hours. The second time it took about

1067
01:14:08,364 --> 01:14:13,244
Speaker 1: two hours. It's not that hard. I have
it down less than that now because I got good

1068
01:14:13,284 --> 01:14:16,584
Speaker 1: at it. Because like anything else,
it's a skill, and like anything else, you can

1069
01:14:16,644 --> 01:14:21,164
Speaker 1: figure out how to do this. So now I
have a way of recording my narration that makes

1070
01:14:21,184 --> 01:14:25,804
Speaker 1: it very simple. I literally just
clap, and I say the numbers of the clips,
because

1071
01:14:25,824 --> 01:14:29,424
Speaker 1: they're all numbered, right? Remember
that? They're all numbered. I say, [claps]

1072
01:14:29,444 --> 01:14:33,524
Speaker 1: "48, 47, [laughs] 47, 48, 49." I
sound insane, right? I'm just, I'm in character.

1073
01:14:33,524 --> 01:14:36,484
Speaker 6: No, that's called, that's slating.
That's called slating.

1074
01:14:36,504 --> 01:14:36,505
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1075
01:14:36,544 --> 01:14:39,324
Speaker 6: You know the old movie, um, clappers?

1076
01:14:39,624 --> 01:14:39,864
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1077
01:14:40,244 --> 01:14:42,824
Speaker 6: They're a slate, and they would put
the chalk and the scene number and stuff.

1078
01:14:42,844 --> 01:14:47,384
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Again, another idea that came
from you. Uh, you, Tony's advice is great,

1079
01:14:47,444 --> 01:14:52,804
Speaker 1: everybody. Uh, so and then by
threading it that way, um, he can't say it, but
I can.

1080
01:14:53,324 --> 01:14:58,224
Speaker 1: Uh, so it made a huge difference, and
I can do it. And yeah, there are some

1081
01:14:58,264 --> 01:15:02,464
Speaker 1: drawbacks, but there's a lot of
upside for an independent producer. So don't be

1082
01:15:02,544 --> 01:15:08,324
Speaker 1: afraid to break the mold if it's
forward progress, if you're gonna learn
something.

1083
01:15:08,504 --> 01:15:12,704
Speaker 1: Worst case scenario, it failed
miserably. I'd have to go back and do more
takes. We

1084
01:15:12,784 --> 01:15:15,683
Speaker 1: schedule some point in the future
where we can start recording episodes. It was

1085
01:15:15,724 --> 01:15:20,464
Speaker 1: recoverable. So I knew that I would
learn something, and if it worked, it would make

1086
01:15:20,924 --> 01:15:24,584
Speaker 1: everything easier. I could have
recording done in three weeks, and I don't have
to

1087
01:15:24,624 --> 01:15:29,244
Speaker 1: do anything. I literally just
directed them each for one session. I just ran
through

1088
01:15:29,304 --> 01:15:33,204
Speaker 1: 10 lines or so for each character. We
narrowed down their voice, and the rest was

1089
01:15:33,244 --> 01:15:36,984
Speaker 1: like, "Okay, have fun. See you
later." And their clips just started showing up
in

1090
01:15:37,024 --> 01:15:40,544
Speaker 1: the do- in the drive. Now, of course,
I had to push people for deadlines and all

1091
01:15:40,604 --> 01:15:44,744
Speaker 1: that, like, but for the most part,
these guys were professional guys and gals. They

1092
01:15:44,764 --> 01:15:48,944
Speaker 1: were all professionals. Like, it was
shocking what a group of volunteers put

1093
01:15:49,004 --> 01:15:54,044
Speaker 1: together by themselves with nothing
but a set of rules that I cooked up on the fly

1094
01:15:54,664 --> 01:15:59,404
Speaker 1: and motivation for a project, for a
dream. It's shocking what you can accomplish.

1095
01:16:00,904 --> 01:16:04,784
Speaker 6: Thanks, Steven. Thank you very much
for talking and sharing some of your

1096
01:16:04,864 --> 01:16:10,444
Speaker 6: experiences. If you were to give any
advice, let's say there's somebody

1097
01:16:10,544 --> 01:16:14,784
Speaker 6: listening who is just before the
tipping point, just before the curve, and their

1098
01:16:14,844 --> 01:16:16,864
Speaker 6: wheels fell off, what would you tell
them?

1099
01:16:17,704 --> 01:16:23,164
Speaker 1: You have to know why you're doing
what you're doing. Are you running away from

1100
01:16:23,204 --> 01:16:27,524
Speaker 1: something? Are you building
something? And I had this realization talking to
another

1101
01:16:27,544 --> 01:16:31,064
Speaker 1: person. Again, giving advice is a
great way to learn about yourself.

1102
01:16:32,864 --> 01:16:37,944
Speaker 1: I realized that there is no right
path in life, which is why I go back to my

1103
01:16:37,984 --> 01:16:41,564
Speaker 1: metaphor, the being on the path or
off the path. It's not why it's more
complicated.

1104
01:16:41,604 --> 01:16:47,184
Speaker 1: Is it the right path? There is no
right path. There are aspects of your
personality

1105
01:16:47,764 --> 01:16:51,924
Speaker 1: that you can emphasize. There are
dreams, and all of them are valid. Some of them

1106
01:16:51,964 --> 01:16:55,844
Speaker 1: have trade-offs. Some of them have
pros and cons. They all affect your life in some

1107
01:16:55,904 --> 01:17:01,324
Speaker 1: way. But once you've chosen one,
understood that none of the other paths are
better

1108
01:17:01,364 --> 01:17:06,204
Speaker 1: than this one, this thing you chose
to make, which you believed so dearly, and up

1109
01:17:06,244 --> 01:17:08,844
Speaker 1: until this point, you're sitting
there, you're looking at your car, all the
wheels

1110
01:17:08,864 --> 01:17:12,324
Speaker 1: are off, to go back to that metaphor.
You're thinking, "Do I want to put this back

1111
01:17:12,384 --> 01:17:17,224
Speaker 1: together? Do I want to get back
together and try again, even though it hurts?"

1112
01:17:18,884 --> 01:17:22,804
Speaker 1: This path is not better than any
other. Those other paths are not better than
this

1113
01:17:22,884 --> 01:17:27,904
Speaker 1: one. Now, you may find out that you
actually, truly do not enjoy this path. That's

1114
01:17:27,944 --> 01:17:32,784
Speaker 1: fine. Move on. Don't judge yourself
for it like I used to. Don't judge yourself for

1115
01:17:32,824 --> 01:17:37,524
Speaker 1: it anymore. But if the thing is that
you're just avoiding pain, know that all those

1116
01:17:37,584 --> 01:17:42,484
Speaker 1: paths have breakdowns on them too.
There is no way to avoid this pain.

1117
01:17:43,584 --> 01:17:47,644
Speaker 1: So if this path truly isn't the right
one, this project, this thing you're trying to

1118
01:17:47,684 --> 01:17:52,124
Speaker 1: build isn't the right one, that's
okay. Move on. Don't put it back together. That

1119
01:17:52,144 --> 01:17:52,764
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense.

1120
01:17:54,384 --> 01:17:59,964
Speaker 1: But all of those paths are hard. If
you're doing anything meaningful, every single

1121
01:18:00,044 --> 01:18:04,444
Speaker 1: one of them is hard, so you're not
gonna be able to avoid pain, and none of them
are

1122
01:18:04,504 --> 01:18:09,324
Speaker 1: better than this one. So you are
probably better served, I got this advice
recently,

1123
01:18:10,064 --> 01:18:16,024
Speaker 1: following a path and a bad goal to
its completion than

1124
01:18:16,084 --> 01:18:20,944
Speaker 1: you are [laughs] attempting to make a
new goal and giving up early. You will learn

1125
01:18:21,024 --> 01:18:25,464
Speaker 1: more following a bad path to its
completion than you will learn from switching
paths

1126
01:18:25,704 --> 01:18:30,704
Speaker 1: because one looks better than the
other. That's what I'll say. So set a goal,
reach

1127
01:18:30,764 --> 01:18:33,904
Speaker 1: it, and when you reach that goal, if
you've decided it didn't give you the feeling

1128
01:18:33,944 --> 01:18:35,464
Speaker 1: you want, then move on.

1129
01:18:36,224 --> 01:18:36,604
Speaker 6: Nice.

1130
01:18:38,144 --> 01:18:38,764
Speaker 6: Thanks, man.

1131
01:18:39,444 --> 01:18:45,444
Speaker 1: Thank you, Tony. And one final pitch,
uh, Tony is incredible. Uh, I have learned

1132
01:18:45,664 --> 01:18:51,204
Speaker 1: so, so much from him as a creative
coach. It really is one of the reasons that I am

1133
01:18:51,384 --> 01:18:56,564
Speaker 1: still on the path for this goal and
not on something else. Uh, and I'm not just,

1134
01:18:57,104 --> 01:19:01,984
Speaker 1: just trying to butter him up. It
really is a fundamental piece of success. It

1135
01:19:02,004 --> 01:19:06,124
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be Tony, but it
should be somebody. You should have somebody in
your

1136
01:19:06,184 --> 01:19:11,544
Speaker 1: life who cares about what you're
producing no matter how bad it is, somebody who

1137
01:19:11,564 --> 01:19:15,664
Speaker 1: will pat you on the back and say,
"When's the next one?" That's what you need.

1138
01:19:17,204 --> 01:19:19,964
Speaker 6: Aw, thanks. I'm not sure I'm gonna
include that, but